Downgrade Self-Reference Engine

[Tooldyguy]

Hello, here I will refute the argument that the Self-Reference ENGINE is Tier 0.

First, it is explained here that there is a "highest rung" structure written here:

https://gyazo.com/990f70364e1e990e19bb65456b1301f3

I translated it to:

https://gyazo.com/5db58a2b7a2562157af8fe7b78e2186f

Then here is the culmination of the argument that ENGINE Self-Reference is Tier 0:

https://gyazo.com/3b924f4dadf475350d3148e284f856ba

I'm going to make a rebuttal here.

The first point is, the "highest rung" referred to here is the ladder structure of the creation of the Large Cardinal of Transfinite Number

The second point is that it doesn't explain what the Large Numbers of Cardinal is and only lists "Transfinite progression to Large Cardinal" which makes me doubt the feats.


The third point is the conclusion of the above points, namely the "highest rung" and "transfinite progression to large numbers of cardinals" which is closest to Inaccessible cardinal, where there are words "transfinite progression to large cardinals" which exceeds the entire Aleph Number (Transfinite Number Structure) is Inaccessible cardinal , this is very possible because Large Cardinal here does not have a clear context at all, therefore I make a decision that transfinite exceedance is Inaccessible cardinal, like the case of God (Unsong).

Conclusion:
Pre Downgrade: 0
Post Downgrade: High 1-A
Affected characters: Nemo Ex-Machina , Alpha Centauri , and Giant Corpora Knowledge

Agree: @Unqver @PrinceStories @LeylinFarlier01 @Gasper
Neutral: @Fahri_Ultimate @Mafuuu @IdiosyncraticLawyer @KntolRicat
Disagree: @Lewis @Ferzx

 

[Unqver]

All this looks very good.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

So SRE the character will remain untouched?

 

[Tooldyguy]

So SRE the character will remain untouched?

This is only a downgrade thread not a verse deletion thread.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

This is only a downgrade thread not a verse deletion thread.

I know that I’m just saying that the strongest character in the verse will not be downgraded correct

 

[PrinceStories]

this is quite reasonable for me so agree

 

[LeylinFarlier01]

Someone needs to summon Ultima.

It looked fine, if it wasn't shown a specific Large Cardinal. But I will wait for other opinions.

 

[Gasper]

I agree with downgrading it but your points here are kinda bad, no offense.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Someone needs to summon Ultima.

It looked fine, if it wasn't shown a specific Large Cardinal. But I will wait for other opinions.

I’m trying to

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Alright he’s coming guys. Be prepared, your facing one of the toughest and smartest staff on the whole site

 

[KntolRicat]

Neutral but leaning to dissagre as i know there is 2 higher hierarchy that completely transcend and Trivialize below them just like transfinite number couldn't reach the inaccesible cardinal, and the base multiverse it's self is H1A, not including The Self-Reference Engine who literally Trivialize the verse as infinitesimall

 

[Tooldyguy]

Neutral but leaning to dissagre as i know there is 2 higher hierarchy that completely transcend and Trivialize below them just like transfinite number couldn't reach the inaccesible cardinal, and the base multiverse it's self is H1A, not including The Self-Reference Engine who literally Trivialize the verse as infinitesimall

Ok, what page did you find it on? I didn't even find it

 

[KntolRicat]

here

 

[ImmortalDread]

Link is invalid

 

[KntolRicat]

Link is invalid

edited

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

DeepL translation

 

[ImmortalDread]

Peak debunk

 

[Tooldyguy]

here

Bro, even the sentence "highest rung" is on the same page and there is no reality>fiction element there. Can you prove why this can get Reality>Fiction in this fiction?

 

[KntolRicat]

Bro, even the sentence "highest rung" is on the same page

Can you elaborate further since the reasoning why self refence engine is boundless is probably different than the proposal u made.

and there is no reality>fiction element there. Can you prove why this can get Reality>Fiction in this fiction?

there is bunch of reality>fiction element here

 

[Tooldyguy]

Can you elaborate further since the reasoning why self refence engine is boundless is probably different than the proposal u made.

there is bunch of reality>fiction element here

You seem to be relying on the phrase "The only thing certain is that something far beyond imagination exists there. Forward, one step at a time, is the only way to proceed. That is what the giant corpora of knowledge had been best at, but now they were sure their intellectual capacity was not up to the task. They were constructed to continue working forever. But what were they supposed to do, assuming their newfound adversary was beyond a horizon so far off they could never reach it even if they used all the many universes as fuel and burned completely through existence?" There is not even a sentence here that is intended to make the Self-Reference ENGINE is Tier 0, in fact there is absolutely no element of transcending at all, here it is only "beyond imagination" not beyond existence or something like that.

 

[KntolRicat]

no, i suppose you read all the thread and the conclusion that ultima been made (cmiww if i missinterpretated what he meant)

 

[Tooldyguy]

I didn't read the whole thing because I know that this fiction is weird, I only got High 1-A yesterday but strangely here is Tier 0. And also I didn't find anything that says all the stories there are just infinitesimal part of Self-Reference ENGINE

 

[Antvasima]

@Ultima_Reality @Agnaa @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @PrinceofPein @Everything12 @Planck69 @Ovy7 @TheUnshakableOne @Rakih_Elyan @IdiosyncraticLawyer

What do you think about this?

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Does SRE have any scans for the boundless tier except these?

Large cardinals are inherently High 1-A, but I suppose there still exists a structure that dwarfs this infinite recurrence of large cardinals in the novel.

 

[Tooldyguy]

Does SRE have any scans for the boundless tier except these?

Large cardinals are inherently High 1-A, but I suppose there still exists a structure that dwarfs this infinite recurrence of large cardinals in the novel.

I have read the book but I don't see any scan to make SRE to boundless level other than the scan above. If you know, let me know on which page.

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

Neutral for now. The argument is convincing at first glance, but I'll see what Ultima says.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Late here and I'm distracted with a couple other affairs right now, so, responding to this tomorrow, probably.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

 

[Lewis]

You have to clarify why the context of large cardinal is not clear, since NBG set theory is said to have V and class correctly applied.

 

[Lewis]

You have to clarify why the context of large cardinal is not clear, since NBG set theory is said to have V and class correctly applied.

And here are all examples of translations from the original. I don't think your translation would match the context within the story.

Antvasima

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Fahri_Ultimate]

Netral

 

[Mafuuu]

Well, a few days ago there was a tread that questioned about MTL, so....... yeah, neutral for now

 

[Lewis]

If you check the transduality type3 self reference engine, you will find that all statements are true. That means that the extreme limits exist and it can be proved that the large cardinal does not conflict with any set.

 

[Tooldyguy]

You have to clarify why the context of large cardinal is not clear, since NBG set theory is said to have V and class correctly applied.

Wait, where did you get this picture from? I didn't find this in the raw and post-translated novel. If you're just arguing like this, then it would still be valid if Sre is High 1-A and would at least get mahlo for his high (if there's more context). This "progression of Transfinite to Large Cardinal" leads to Inaccessible, because large cardinal is not that easy to cover entirely.

 

[Lewis]

large cardinal is not that easy to cover entirely

It's easier to store them as a class, which is larger than a set.

 

[Tooldyguy]

It's easier to store them as a class, which is larger than a set.

If you're going to make that argument, where's the volume that explains that, and where's the volume that lists all the large cardinals? Don't just assume.

 

[Lewis]

Reading bruh

Antvasima

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Lewis]

Reading bruh

Antvasima

vsbattles.fandom.com

And Including everyone who disagrees

 

[Lewis]

@MrOMG

 

[Tooldyguy]

And Including everyone who disagrees

Bro, the extreme height here is Inaccessible cardinal, why is that? Because this is just the context of "Transfinite progression to Large Cardinal" which means that the extreme height here is Inaccessible itself.
If you really want to upgrade to the top of the large cardinal or cover all the large cardinals, provide supportive follow-up volume.