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Secco vs Yang Xiao Long
- Thread starter Botchede
- Start date
Listentomyrhytm
He/Him- 5,129
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Duedate also voted. It's 2 votes, not one.Botchede said:
XSOULOFCINDERX
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It's actually more like 3 votes. Me, Weekly and Bedroombedrock voted for Yang.
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Then wouldn't it be 4?
Also is anyone else voting? What about you carrot69?
Also is anyone else voting? What about you carrot69?
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Bump*
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I've decided to vote Secco for my earlier comment
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Which argument exactly?
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The melting of Yang and her aura. It was mentioned that the aura reforms instantly, but instant reformation<a constant affect being applied. The barrier can only reform once breach, and for that tiny fraction of a second, Oasis can affect Yang. It's basically similar to "passive" vs "instant" at this point, making it only a matter of time
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If a constant effect is applied it just cause the aura to slowly drain away, its how Aura user are able to take a dip in lava
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Wouldn't that mean that eventually, Yang would be under the full effect of "the melt"?
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Yes but it would take quite a long time to do so
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I definitely agree. My only reason for thinking Secco can take this is, while Yang's mobility is waaaaay better, Secco can just stall her from underground. If she breaks everything underground with her punches, he could go deeper or something to that effectWeeklyBattles said:
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tbh, unless Secco makes direct hand contact or actively tries to melt something (like Doppio or that camera, or the area with that one super punch), it honestly kinda is like being in lava, that's a decent analogy, although idk if it's a perfect analogy given one's done via heat and one's done via lol hax magic.
Although the closer in proximity, the faster and more drastic it gets, within I think 10 meters it was? Bruno was soft enough to where he couldnt even touch his face gently without breaking his fingers and peeling flesh and tendons.
Although the closer in proximity, the faster and more drastic it gets, within I think 10 meters it was? Bruno was soft enough to where he couldnt even touch his face gently without breaking his fingers and peeling flesh and tendons.
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@Chariot The problem is she'd have to be in close proximity to him for a long time before her aura even goes down so he can try to melt her
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What is the range for Oasis again?
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Long time? The fight aint as long as you think it was, I could probably find an exact time frame the fight took place in but it's probably no more than a minute or two total (small fun fact, but the DIO;s World arc is only two minutes in length, it's only said in the manga but the entire Joseph, Jotaro, HIGH DIO, etc fight was less than 150 seconds long according to the narrator, dont confuse anime cinematic timing and visuals for how long things actually take place is what im trying to say), and the Bruno being in the ground melting part began only a few pages after the chase began, after Secco got close enough to him for the ground itself to begin melting, prior to that, despite Bruno being in the ground he actually wasnt within the mudded ground (till Secco got closer to him), he was in the normal ground utilizing his zippers to move through it, which is why he hadnt began melting yet.
Not to mention it has nothing to do with time, it began actual mere panels after Secco liquified the ground Bruno was in and time or prolonged exposure isnt mentioned once, in fact the reasoning given is that Secco is closer to Bruno thus the melting effect is more prounounced, on top of the fact that now that Bruno is within melted ground, it stands to reason that Bruno to will melt. That's what Secco says.
Basically, time doesnt matter, it's proximity and how much he's actively trying to melt his surroundings.
Not to mention it has nothing to do with time, it began actual mere panels after Secco liquified the ground Bruno was in and time or prolonged exposure isnt mentioned once, in fact the reasoning given is that Secco is closer to Bruno thus the melting effect is more prounounced, on top of the fact that now that Bruno is within melted ground, it stands to reason that Bruno to will melt. That's what Secco says.
Basically, time doesnt matter, it's proximity and how much he's actively trying to melt his surroundings.
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Several meters according to his profileBakiHanma18 said:
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@Chariot Thats not what im talking about, im talking about if he is in fact able to melt her aura it would take a decent amount of time to do so, thuogh seeing as there hasnt been any evidence that he can melt stands presented thats not likely
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Oasis' range is about 10-20 meters going by the range he claimed Bruno was away from him.
>thuogh seeing as there hasnt been any evidence that he can melt stands presented thats not likely
Oh please, Weekly, I thought you were over that but clearly not, but here's a quick reminder,
No, it really didnt, you saying nah i dont wanna count it, doesnt make you right or it to be even slightly good of a rebuttal. You aren't God Weekly, you dont get to decide on what opinions on an opinionative matter count or do not count.
Hmm well given he wasnt utilizing his melting ability in any instance where he fought a Stand but when he did he showed the ability to melt a Stand, well how much spoonfeeding do you want ƒñö
I dont think you understand what explicitly means.
ex┬Àplic┬Àit┬Àly
/ik╦êsplisitlē/
adverb
No offense, but neither is true, nothing was detailed, especially given context and the narrative oprogression of events, which leaves extreme doubt for your supposed explicit claim. Secco pummeling SF means nothing because even when touching Bruno or Mista he wasnt melting anything, hell in the same fight where he's pummeling SF he lands blows on Bruno too, which doesnt melt him, ergo not once, in the entire arc, when SF was out or fighting Secco, was Secco utilizing his melting powers, if he was using the melting when SF was fighting him Bruno wouldve been melted too in that very same fight (also despite him saying he's gonna kill Bruno, he seems very calm and collected, even stopping the attack temporarily to ask Bruno if he saw Pol). He may of been trying to kill him, but he wasnt using his full power, whether or not that makes sense in character doesnt matter, that's what happened. Take it up with Araki if it bothers you so much.
Now instead of pulling the ol no u card, actually explain why his Stand doesnt count for some reason you seem to think. His liquification, in the one instance where he was actively making an effort to liquify on hand contact, effected both people and stands, in the same motion even, whether or not it's his own doesnt matter because in the instances where he was fighting another Stand, he wasnt using that power. The fact it effected his own Stand aleady means the liquification has NPI so this conversation is pointless, but not only that the fact it effected a Stand in general, one that is fine burrowing in the mud without getting completely gooped, means it's just as fine as anything else. Actually, inoring the fact pulling the purden of proof card being the oldest way in the book to actually get out of properly formulating a rebuttal, the burden of proof was for me to show that it effected a Stand, because that's what you originally asked, you're moving the goalposts now, in reality it's up to you now to prove an supply evidence that Secco's very own Stand is somehow different than any other Stand in this very specific case and that Oasis for some reason has less resilence to being mud even though it's showed to be the same up till Secco actively tried melting a target, and it worked. But, as said, even if it only somehow effects his Stand, that's still NPI, which is enough here.
Aka, your turn now Weekly, prove that Oasis, somehow is magically extremely vulnerable to his own power, despite context, narrative, and common sense and it's own feats, prove that Oasis somehow is more vulnerable to it's mud power, even though nothing states or claims it is, hell you'd think it would be mentioned given Green Day was outright made explicit it doesnt effect Stands, as a key plot point in the same arc Oasis is featured in. But regardless, either get over it and stop acting like your word is gospel or make an effort to provide sufficient evidence Oasis is vulnerable to itself, that can't be explained with narrative context.
>thuogh seeing as there hasnt been any evidence that he can melt stands presented thats not likely
Oh please, Weekly, I thought you were over that but clearly not, but here's a quick reminder,
No, it really didnt, you saying nah i dont wanna count it, doesnt make you right or it to be even slightly good of a rebuttal. You aren't God Weekly, you dont get to decide on what opinions on an opinionative matter count or do not count.
Hmm well given he wasnt utilizing his melting ability in any instance where he fought a Stand but when he did he showed the ability to melt a Stand, well how much spoonfeeding do you want ƒñö
I dont think you understand what explicitly means.
ex┬Àplic┬Àit┬Àly
/ik╦êsplisitlē/
adverb
- in a clear and detailed manner, leaving no room for confusion or doubt
No offense, but neither is true, nothing was detailed, especially given context and the narrative oprogression of events, which leaves extreme doubt for your supposed explicit claim. Secco pummeling SF means nothing because even when touching Bruno or Mista he wasnt melting anything, hell in the same fight where he's pummeling SF he lands blows on Bruno too, which doesnt melt him, ergo not once, in the entire arc, when SF was out or fighting Secco, was Secco utilizing his melting powers, if he was using the melting when SF was fighting him Bruno wouldve been melted too in that very same fight (also despite him saying he's gonna kill Bruno, he seems very calm and collected, even stopping the attack temporarily to ask Bruno if he saw Pol). He may of been trying to kill him, but he wasnt using his full power, whether or not that makes sense in character doesnt matter, that's what happened. Take it up with Araki if it bothers you so much.
Now instead of pulling the ol no u card, actually explain why his Stand doesnt count for some reason you seem to think. His liquification, in the one instance where he was actively making an effort to liquify on hand contact, effected both people and stands, in the same motion even, whether or not it's his own doesnt matter because in the instances where he was fighting another Stand, he wasnt using that power. The fact it effected his own Stand aleady means the liquification has NPI so this conversation is pointless, but not only that the fact it effected a Stand in general, one that is fine burrowing in the mud without getting completely gooped, means it's just as fine as anything else. Actually, inoring the fact pulling the purden of proof card being the oldest way in the book to actually get out of properly formulating a rebuttal, the burden of proof was for me to show that it effected a Stand, because that's what you originally asked, you're moving the goalposts now, in reality it's up to you now to prove an supply evidence that Secco's very own Stand is somehow different than any other Stand in this very specific case and that Oasis for some reason has less resilence to being mud even though it's showed to be the same up till Secco actively tried melting a target, and it worked. But, as said, even if it only somehow effects his Stand, that's still NPI, which is enough here.
Aka, your turn now Weekly, prove that Oasis, somehow is magically extremely vulnerable to his own power, despite context, narrative, and common sense and it's own feats, prove that Oasis somehow is more vulnerable to it's mud power, even though nothing states or claims it is, hell you'd think it would be mentioned given Green Day was outright made explicit it doesnt effect Stands, as a key plot point in the same arc Oasis is featured in. But regardless, either get over it and stop acting like your word is gospel or make an effort to provide sufficient evidence Oasis is vulnerable to itself, that can't be explained with narrative context.
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Anyway I checked, his Stand range is at least more then 12 but less than 20 meters.
Could be more given he claimed less than 20 after a bit of chasing but that's the solid concrete numbers given.
Could be more given he claimed less than 20 after a bit of chasing but that's the solid concrete numbers given.
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A Stand being able to use its own powers on itself as a benefit is commonplace in jojo. Oasis being able to hit stands does not mean he can melt them when there is no evidence that he can. Once again, unless you provide scans that say he can melt opponent stands your argument that he can is null
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Wait what? For what reason are we to assume that Oasis can't affect other stands?
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Oh nice try, but that opposite is actually commonplace, if said power in question is an offensive. Stands in almost every single instance have innate resistance to their own power or are neutral and said power works on every stand, a good example is Purple Haze, who resists its own virus. Or Killer Queen who cant utilize its bombs on itself, etc and in the instances a Stand ca utilize its powers on itself, it works just fine on every other stand too. I actually cant think of any, the only times a stands power works on itself and not other stands is if the power in question effects only the stand and nothing else, like 20th Century Boy.
You're moving the goalposts and it's extremely unprofessional, I supplied evidence it can effect Stands, whether or not you like it doesnt matter, you aren't a god nor does your opinion dictate if it's right or wrong, now I said what needed to be said yet you still keep pulling the no u, actually there's a name for this, you're utilizing the special pleading and burdon of proof fallacies, probably more.
Edit: Hell, I even checked it's bios and some guides and such a blatant weakness aint mentioned anywhere, which is odd because shit like that is always mentioned.
You're moving the goalposts and it's extremely unprofessional, I supplied evidence it can effect Stands, whether or not you like it doesnt matter, you aren't a god nor does your opinion dictate if it's right or wrong, now I said what needed to be said yet you still keep pulling the no u, actually there's a name for this, you're utilizing the special pleading and burdon of proof fallacies, probably more.
Edit: Hell, I even checked it's bios and some guides and such a blatant weakness aint mentioned anywhere, which is odd because shit like that is always mentioned.
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Because there's no evidence that he can? Even bloodlusted Secco wailing on Sticky Fingers didnt melt itBakiHanma18 said:
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@Chariot There has not been any goalpoast moving, we're still waiting for you to post a scan that says he can affect stands with Oasis
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Oh really? Correct me if I'm wrong but did you not originally ask to see if it could effect a stand? Only to then turn around and go no it doesnt count because it was his stand it's somehow magically opt? Sounds like moving the goalposts to me Weekly.
>Because there's no evidence that he can? Even bloodlusted Secco wailing on Sticky Fingers didnt melt it
You mean when he wasnt actively trying to make an effort to melt and in both instances the exchange is followed by Bruno getting a direct full body kick or punch to the gut, without melting as well, both of which happen immediatly after, in fact the literal next panel after the exchanges with SF? Which tells us that he wasnt going for the melt on Bruno route as both end with Bruno taking the last blow, unmelted? You're being dishonest and ignoring the context and stages of narrative progression. Could you be anymore unprofessional or dishonest Weekly?
>Because there's no evidence that he can? Even bloodlusted Secco wailing on Sticky Fingers didnt melt it
You mean when he wasnt actively trying to make an effort to melt and in both instances the exchange is followed by Bruno getting a direct full body kick or punch to the gut, without melting as well, both of which happen immediatly after, in fact the literal next panel after the exchanges with SF? Which tells us that he wasnt going for the melt on Bruno route as both end with Bruno taking the last blow, unmelted? You're being dishonest and ignoring the context and stages of narrative progression. Could you be anymore unprofessional or dishonest Weekly?
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And, checking the japanese Bio's, stats and JoJoveller, it's not mentioned he cant effect Stands. Kinda odd dont you think? That's a pretty blatant weakness that's brought up every single time a Stand cant effect something specific, hell that's always mentioned actually.
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So if Oasis wasn't attempting to melt SF, there should be no reason to assume that a stand can't affect another stand with an ability
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Hell, even looking closely at the panels, SF actively avoids contact with Oasis' fists, deflecting the blows by aiming at Secco's arms and moving the punches out of the way. The only other time I can think of that happening is CD Vs. Killer Queen, and we all know why CD did that in that fight.
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If this is the case then surely it would be easy to find an instance of him melting a stand with th intention of doing oBakiHanma18 said:
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Simply put, post a scan of him showing that he can melt Stands, otherwise you cannot argue that he can as that would be an assumption with no evidence to back it up
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Yeah, it is easy, in fact it's quite blatant, the only time he was actively trying to melt a target at the same time he was in contact with a Stand was his ow, but you dont like it so it doesnt count I guess.
He tried melting Doppio, he got gimped and melted his own Stand, that's the only time all the conditions align, and it worked, whether or not you like it or not. Not to mention literally no instance of anything says that he cant, despite things like that always being mentioned explicitly, made even a bit more dubious given that also applies, as a blatant point, for the Stand he debuts with, Green Day.
He tried melting Doppio, he got gimped and melted his own Stand, that's the only time all the conditions align, and it worked, whether or not you like it or not. Not to mention literally no instance of anything says that he cant, despite things like that always being mentioned explicitly, made even a bit more dubious given that also applies, as a blatant point, for the Stand he debuts with, Green Day.
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If there's no reason to believe he can't affect a stand with his ability, why would we assume he can't? The logic would be that a stand can effect another stand unless specifically outlined that it cannot
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That's actually a plot point in some cases. That's actually the very reason why Kakyoin assumed the mirror world was bullshit because in his own words, if the rules state that a Stand must be capable of beating a Stand, than we should be capable of defeating the Hanged Man with our Stands.
If that isnt the case, it's always brought up, like Green Day.
If that isnt the case, it's always brought up, like Green Day.
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Doppio is not a stand, Doppio is a human.
Unless evidence of him being able to melt stands is presented you cannot viably argue that he can
Unless evidence of him being able to melt stands is presented you cannot viably argue that he can
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The sheer lack of any evidence to indicate that he cannot affect stands would be "the evidence" so to speak. Why would he not be able to affect stands? Oasis is a stand, so he should be able to. Are we to assume now that hax only work on a character only if they've shown to, as opposed to the belief that hax only DONT work if the character in question has shown a resistance?
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Occams razor. If there is no evidence to say that he CAN, you cannot assume that he can.
