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Secco vs Yang Xiao Long

Beneath the ground Yang has by far the inferior mobility and we already know that Aura isn't an endless supply so even if the ranged attacks were only wall level enough of them would still be capable of scraping away at her health and from the amount we bare witness to from Secco he can give out a lot.

Though I also have a question, why do we consider Yang's durability raised when shes using Burn? I thought her semblance was purely offensive in nature.
 
Also beneath the ground, maybe she does, but considering her class M lifting strength, higher ap and pseudo flight it should be nigh impossible for him to drag her down even if he tries to sink like an entire structure or something. Very thin wincon here
 
Her lifting strength isn't really any help since if the earth around her soldifies she's compacted and surrounded by dirt with no monuverability. Combine this with Secco's range and ability to instantly soften the ground and Yang going in and getting stuck becomes a good possiblity. Bruno only works because he has Sticky Finger's creating a path for him, so that's a win con right their. And with Burn, Yang's AP is dependent on what she's taken hits from so she might not even reach that far into Large Building Level or Building Level+ by the time she starts using Burn.

And someone like Secco is right up the ally with being able to exploit her weakness, since he spends most of his time dodging and avoiding attacks from Bruno as the pair fight and is shown to be a smarter fighter then Vol 1-3 Yang ever was.

While Secco might have a hard time getting her. he can still takes this battle.
 
Duedate8898 said:
Beneath the ground Yang has by far the inferior mobility and we already know that Aura isn't an endless supply so even if the ranged attacks were only wall level enough of them would still be capable of scraping away at her health and from the amount we bare witness to from Secco he can give out a lot.

Though I also have a question, why do we consider Yang's durability raised when shes using Burn? I thought her semblance was purely offensive in nature.
Click to expand...
Her pseudo flight would work just fine if she were pulled under ground and it would allow her to easily escape it

Because its an amp to her physical attacks, her durability would have to be raised by default as per newton's third law otherwise she'd just be injuring herself every time she threw an amped punch
 
If he solidifies the ground with her in it she can very easily just break the ground

Burn makes it so that if she takes even one punch from someone comparable to her in power her AP doubles
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Just going to point out that due to her aura he can't actually liquefy her as he was unable to liquefy stands
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He liqufied his own stand suit though in direct contact? Saying he cant when he has seems a bit fishy dude.
 
His stand having the ability to liquefy itself is not the same thing. He was unable to liquefy Sex Pistols and Sticky Fingers
 
Secco is actually a smart fighter. He will know that going near Yang is dangerous if he witnessed it firsthand. Secco can just eat dirt spit it on Yang creating a rain of mud spikes towards Yang in the air while at the same time doing the hit and run tactics. He can do that continously until Yang's aura is depleted
 
Yang is a smart fighter too, she'll realize immediately that touching the ground is a bad idea and stick to being in the air as much as possible with her pseudo flight and if she sees a bunch of spikes falling from the sky she'll know to avoid them even if they're super weak compared to her
 
WeeklyBattles said:
His stand having the ability to liquefy itself is not the same thing. He was unable to liquefy Sex Pistols and Sticky Fingers
Click to expand...
Never touched Sex Pistols from what I recall. And SF could be chalked up to him not being serious, he doesnt actually utilize his Stands full power till later on on the fight when Bruno is running away, and when he does everything like 20-30 meters in all directions liquifies and even Bruno who is 20+ meters away starts to melt, it's only then when direct contact with him seems to begin melting things, ergo, SF not getting melted probably has more to do with him no being at full power rather then he just cant.
 
He dragged Sex Pistols into the ground immediately when he attacked mistah and bruno

Not really? It was kinda explicitly stated that the only reason Bruno started to melt was because he was within Oasis' liquefied ground for so long and even then Stick Fingers itself wasnt melting, only Bruno

You'd need explicit proof of him being able to melt stands other than his own if you want to argue that he could, though even then Yang's aura regenerates so lowly melting it wouldnt have much effect on it anyways
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Yang is a smart fighter too, she'll realize immediately that touching the ground is a bad idea and stick to being in the air as much as possible with her pseudo flight and if she sees a bunch of spikes falling from the sky she'll know to avoid them even if they're super weak compared to her
Click to expand...
I doubt she is a smart fighter in the early volumes because of her hot-head personality as seen with her fight against Neo and Adam but he durability + aura will let her win this if she can force Secco in the surface
 
>He dragged Sex Pistols into the ground immediately when he attacked mistah and bruno

Dont see it, Secco never actually touched Sex Pistols, Mista just dropped his gun but Secco never made contact.

>Not really? It was kinda explicitly stated that the only reason Bruno started to melt was because he was within Oasis' liquefied ground for so long and even then Stick Fingers itself wasnt melting, only Bruno

Actually it's explicitly said that Bruno started to melt because he was in the pavement, it had nothing to do with how long it was. Secco said because the pavement was getting turned as such, so was Bruno, and the closer Secco got the faster and more brutal the liquification would become. Sticky Fingers actually wasnt out when Bruno began melting so saying SF wasnt melting is dishonest, he wasnt even there.

I went back and checked, prior to going serious and using his full power, direct contant with humans too didnt liquify (as he does so multiple times early on, clutching at Bruno/Mistas legs for example). So him not liquifying SF, he simply wasnt serious (given we know it has something to do with him utilizing his full power) at the time and his direct contact liquification wasnt being utilized yet, given we know after becoming serious direct contact with him can melt people and Stands (showcased with his own stand) while prior, it wouldnt (showcased with Bruno, Mista and the Sf), pretty sure it's obvious that he can given he has.
 
She's not as smart as she is in later volumes, but unless Secco starts messing with her hair, she won't fly into a rage. The only reason she was so furious at Neo was because of how smug she was acting and her need for payback, and she was livid against Adam because he had literally just stabbed her partner through the gut.
 
@Chariot He was in the pavement for an extended period of tim before he started to melt and again, Sticky Fingers wasnt melting, only Bruno was. Yang wouldnt be melting at all due to her aura. And yes, SF was out, he was actively using it to deflect the spikes that Secco was shooting at him as well as using it to pop the car tire that deafened Secco.

Sorry but thats not how it works. You cannot just assume that he can liquefy Stands when he has never shown the ability to do so to any Stand other than his own.
 
So you just gonna ignore the actual canon explanation? Because he wasnt in the pavement for an extended period of time, he was in normal pavement prior, he didnt even began melting till almost immediatly after Secco used his full power to liquify the pavement he was in as well. Also Secco straight up contradicts you in your explanation.

No SF, wasnt out, deflecting the spikes? Bruno hadnt began melting at that point either? Why would Bruno begin melting after SF? In the scene where Bruno is shown to begin melting, SF is straight up gone, not to be seen and given Bruno resummons him shortly after, dictates the dude is not summoned in the instance where Bruno is melting.

>But the tire.

Yeah, SF was out for less than a second, then again Bruno wasnt exactly a pile of goop either, im sure SF can handle being summoned for like a fraction of a second without being reduced to sludge.

>Sorry but thats not how it works.

That sounds a lot more like a personal opinion than a fact Weekly.

>you cant just assume.

Given that's literally what I'm doing given the evidence, context of the story and circumstances of the events. >he's never shown the ability to liquify stands except the time he liquified a stand when actively trying to liquify a person but accidently touched himself.

idk weekly that sounds like a personal opinion rather than something that you can claim as factually wrong, you can disagree of course but you cant rightfully say im wrong as well given evidence and narrative context, hell the fact that in the moment of actively trying to liquify a target through contact it worked on his stand should be enough evidence given his stand is still a stand and can withstand the passive liquification just as well as anything else if not better, to say im outright wrong on a subjective matter is to be outright ignorant imo ƒñö
 
Simply put, you need to post a scan of him liquifying a Stand other than his own which already has the ability to liquefy. If you cannot do this, you cannot argue that he can liquefy Stands, plain and simple.
 
Nice rebuttal. His Stand is still a Stand, it isnt any different than any other Stand, if anything his Stand is more resilient to liquification than other Stands and the only time he actively tried to liquify a target drectly, in that being Doppio, he also liquified himself, as well as the Stand. Honestly, none of this matters, all that matters is that his liquification has shown NPI, which is enough.

Now regardless of your opinions on the matter, if you wanna say that somehow, his stand doesnt count for some arbitrary preconcieved notion that doesnt effect anything but your own subjective opinions, I'd like some evidence of why it shouldnt count rather then you simply going no u.
 
It did the job it needed to, summing up all of the issues you brought up.

Show proof that his Stand can liquefy other Stands.

It shouldnt count because it was explicitly shown to not count. Secco pummeling Sticky Fingers while yelling about how he was going to kill Bruno yet not liquefying SF goes against your claim that he 'wasnt using his full power'. Burden of proof is on you to prove that he can liquefy other Stands.
 
No, it really didnt, you saying nah i dont wanna count it, doesnt make you right or it to be even slightly good of a rebuttal. You aren't God Weekly, you dont get to decide on what opinions on an opinionative matter count or do not count.

Hmm well given he wasnt utilizing his melting ability in any instance where he fought a Stand but when he did he showed the ability to melt a Stand, well how much spoonfeeding do you want ƒñö

I dont think you understand what explicitly means.

ex┬Àplic┬Àit┬Àly

/ik╦êsplisitlē/

adverb

  1. in a clear and detailed manner, leaving no room for confusion or doubt


No offense, but neither is true, nothing was detailed, especially given context and the narrative oprogression of events, which leaves extreme doubt for your supposed explicit claim. Secco pummeling SF means nothing because even when touching Bruno or Mista he wasnt melting anything, hell in the same fight where he's pummeling SF he lands blows on Bruno too, which doesnt melt him, ergo not once, in the entire arc, when SF was out or fighting Secco, was Secco utilizing his melting powers, if he was using the melting when SF was fighting him Bruno wouldve been melted too in that very same fight (also despite him saying he's gonna kill Bruno, he seems very calm and collected, even stopping the attack temporarily to ask Bruno if he saw Pol). He may of been trying to kill him, but he wasnt using his full power, whether or not that makes sense in character doesnt matter, that's what happened. Take it up with Araki if it bothers you so much.

Now instead of pulling the ol no u card, actually explain why his Stand doesnt count for some reason you seem to think. His liquification, in the one instance where he was actively making an effort to liquify on hand contact, effected both people and stands, in the same motion even, whether or not it's his own doesnt matter because in the instances where he was fighting another Stand, he wasnt using that power. The fact it effected his own Stand aleady means the liquification has NPI so this conversation is pointless, but not only that the fact it effected a Stand in general, one that is fine burrowing in the mud without getting completely gooped, means it's just as fine as anything else. Actually, inoring the fact pulling the purden of proof card being the oldest way in the book to actually get out of properly formulating a rebuttal, the burden of proof was for me to show that it effected a Stand, because that's what you originally asked, you're moving the goalposts now, in reality it's up to you now to prove an supply evidence that Secco's very own Stand is somehow different than any other Stand in this very specific case and that Oasis for some reason has less resilence to being mud even though it's showed to be the same up till Secco actively tried melting a target, and it worked. But, as said, even if it only somehow effects his Stand, that's still NPI, which is enough here.
 
Anyway I'm out for awhile, gonna go play some Re2, been meanig to finish it, hopefully by the time I check back you can give an actual, detailed explanation as to why his Stand magically doesnt while taking in context as well.
 
I mean, its more an assumption that Secco can melt stands.

@Weekly

If Yang is unable to move, her strength and AP don't really matter, she has no way to meaningfully exert it. Now, I'm not saying she can't get out while the ground is in its liquid state, shouldn't be too hard for her with her flight and the such, I'm just saying if it hardens there is no real chance of her getting out.

And what we get from Yang in Volumes 1-3 doesn't really imply that tactical or smart of a fighter, sure we know she can fight but only in terms of skill and strength. Hell, her profile notes this as well with one of her weaknesses being her hotheadness and her intelligence mentioning how she becomes predictable when angered.

Yang is more brute force then anything else Volume 1-3
 
Dunno about Secco being able to liquify stands since it was never shown to other than his own which could be a similar case to White Album. Also if this isn't a stomp for Yang I'm gonna vote for her, Secco doesn't have the technical skill, intelligence, or AP and Dura to put her down before she punches his head in when he pops out
 
>I mean, its more an assumption that Secco can melt stands.

It would be if he literally didnt do exactly that. If he never showed the ability to melt his own Stand (which has no reason to be vulnerable to his power more so than any other Stand, if anything the opposite is true) when trying to melt someone else you'd be right, but he did, ergo he can effect stands given he accidentlly did so to himself. Him not melting SF isnt a viable counterpoint, because when he fought SF, he wasnt utilizing that ability, given he lands blows an physically touches Bruno in the exact same exchange of blows, even landing the final hit on Bruno, not SF, in which Bruno hadnt melted. At least, if I'm understand your post correctly.

>similar case to White Album

It aint though, White Album doesnt freeze itself, White Album doesnt even have an actual form, it freezes the air around the user to create a suit. Also White Album can freeze stands, so if they're similiar, that's not evidence to the contrary.
 
I would assume Yang would be more apt to escape the ground while it's hardened, considering that it would shatter like glass the moment she appiled any real pressurewith that A.P and lifting strength.

I had something else to add, but it'll take longer to put into words.
 
If she can't move how is she supposed to exert any force in order to break it?
 
That shockwave is only accoplmished when she does a motion with the action, the one time she activates her semblance and doesn't do any movement alongside it no shockwave forms.
 
Does Secco win over superman via trapping him? Also I'm gonna side moreso with Secco not being able to liquify stands, there's a good possibility he can but affecting his own stand seems a bit iffy. Also how do you vote carrot190
 
Superman is in a whole other range of strength and possibility then Yang, so trying to use him as support doesn't work.
 
But she wouldn't be able to exert any meaningful amount of force, so her strength is useless.
 
>effecting his own stand seems a bit iffy

If you want to explain me to what makes Secco's Stand any different than other Stands then be my guest, but from what I can tell, there is no difference. Because he does, when he attempts to melt Doppio, Bruno gimps him and Secco accidently melts himself, Stand and all.
 
It's a suit stand, there's a good chance it's like WA, there isn't enough evidence to say with complete certainty he can, at most he possibly can but no one here really agrees on anything yet, so for the purpose of this match I'll assume he can't
 
im with chariot that seco can melt other stands he started melting his own when buca zipped his arm and oasis isnt any diffrent from other stands
 
Yang would be around 3.5 to 4.23 tons from what scaling I see. Secco scales to 1.01 from what I see, though I'm sure we consider him somewhere below it.
 
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