Vs battles members when they see Naruto match:
Unless Genjutsu is conceptual and layered, Sasuke is gonna be hard pressed here to do ANY hax to Ungrim. At all.
Rinnegan Genjutsu > Tsukuyomi > EMS Base Genjutsu > MS Genjutsu > 3 Tomoe Genjutsu > 2 Tomoe Genjutsu > 1 Tomoe Genjutsu
Not conceptual? As in he can't hax concepts or make them and the like? Cause uh, that's what makes Warhammer Fantasy characters such a pain in the ass, if something is resisted by Aethyr Manipulation, Good luck doing Jack didilly with that hax
Pretty sure Sasuke is very skilled, maybe not the Warhammer Fantasy level of "**** you" in skill, but still commendable
So he’s getting somewhat outskilled and his main ability genjutsu can’t work? How does ironfist resist Bfr or chibaku tensei?
What kind of BFR is this? Through portals?
Yes.
Dhar can BFR folks to the realm of chaos via portals, we don't **** with Dhar or it's BFR because it is broken
Wait, how is Rinnegan Genjutsu superior to the Tsukuyomi?
What are u talking about?
The resistance to that specific kind of BFR is straight 1-A. So... yeah. Not everything from Aethyr Manipulation or Dhar is 1-A, but small bits and pieces are and that happens to be one of them.
I believe it's because Sasuke's genjustu in the New Era is stated to be the strongest iirc but if I'm wrong someone can correct me.
Nothing like that in the profile bro.
yes that is stated.
Step 1: Read Ungrim Ironfist's resistance section.
"
" what? You can't debunk me and decide use memes lmao, so pathetic
vsbattles.fandom.com
So... it isn't conceptual. Ungrim resists.Naruto: Genjutsu Potency
Here's a guide to how strong Sasuke's Genjutsu is.
I mean, in several threads it is pointed out that one HAX is not inherently superior to the other without talents, so whether it is conceptual or not is irrelevant, Genjutsu will still work as it is layered.
Because anything Aethyr Manipulation does is type 1 conceptual, this means illusions, mindhax, literally everything on the page, to make a single simple fireball you are literally twisting concepts, nothingness and the like to make the concept of fire in your hand, unless Sasuke is literally applying the concept of the illusion on Ungrim on top of being multi-layered, Genjutsu isn't working, seeing as the lore of shadows has conceptual illusions that trap you in the past as well as the present, meaning they were always in the illusion
Okay but what does it matter
vsbattles.fandom.com
Irrelevant, as it has already been debunked.
Genjutsu, to my knowledge anyway, isn't literally applying the concepts of the illusion or mind hax on the opponent, concepts are inherently superior to most other things, that's why it matters, it's not "standard" like Genjutsu is, it's a step above that, unless you think you can argue that say, Balthasar Gelt literally applying the concept of gold on someone to turn them into gold isn't gonna let him bypass every resistance that doesn't match Aethyr Manipulation or is higher dimensional.
You didn't read the page, did you? LmfaoFallacies
One thing to keep in mind, is that even if someone is using a fallacy, it does not necessarily mean that their argument is not true. It merely means that they are attempting to argue for it improperly. These are the examples that apply to this wiki, with the original list written by Endless...
Irrelevant, as it has already been debunked.
vsbattles.fandom.com
You literally said that Aethyr Manip can resist EVERYTHING. It is obvious that this is about NLF. If your layered mental resistance is not confirmed or is insufficient, Genjutsu GG and there is no argumentative juggling to change that scenario.
All right, man, I'm going to start from the same argument as you. Itachi with his Tsukuyomi could manipulate time, space and any substance, besides directly attacking the spirit, mentioned by himself.
How is saying that every ability in verse is conceptual a fallacy?Fallacies
One thing to keep in mind, is that even if someone is using a fallacy, it does not necessarily mean that their argument is not true. It merely means that they are attempting to argue for it improperly. These are the examples that apply to this wiki, with the original list written by Endless...
Irrelevant, as it has already been debunked.
From the moment you rely on that to say that he is able to withstand everything, including a layered HAX that he has at no point shown himself to be able to handle.
Everything that isn't conceptual in nature and pretty sure you also need to be able to affect NEP 2 as well last I checked Aethyr manipulation page.
Uhhh, no I didnt? I said "everything Aethyr Manipulation does is type 1 conceptual", not that it resists everything, read better lolYou literally said that Aethyr Manip can resist EVERYTHING. It is obvious that this is about NLF. If your layered mental resistance is not confirmed or is insufficient, Genjutsu GG and there is no argumentative juggling to change that scenario.
All right, man, I'm going to start from the same argument as you. Itachi with his Tsukuyomi could manipulate time, space and any substance, besides directly attacking the spirit, mentioned by himself.
New Era Sasuke >>>> MS Itachi.
And you are again starting from a false premise; no HAX is inherently superior to the other talentless one. What is the tiered Mental Hax resistance talent? None.
Correction: not every ability in-verse, every spell in verse. If it was every ability I wouldn't even bother making matches lol
That's how it works tho. Ability that works on conceptual level is inherently superior to the ability that doesn't
So far, again, no evidence of layered resistance to mental HAX. Stop using sophistry, NLF and false premises.
Bro, this is not how VsB considers it. For example, would Ungrim's CM1 be inherently above Aoi, or would both have the same power? Aoi's CM1 scales above Plot Hax, it's an achievement, so she would be above it. Ungrim's CM1 has never shown itself to be above Plot Hax, so it would be below.
Even Raikage has that feat, I don't think it would be enough to fight two BorutoVerse GodTier.
You’re pathetic for saying “GeNjuTsU gG” when someone else said that already and that was DEBUNKED. Don’t even throw your BS at me"
So can Ironfist resist the chibaku Tensei? can he resist sealing?
The debunking: Ungrim endures because it is concept-based, damn the lack of accomplishments and the layering gap.
Shut up, nobody debunked shit about "Genjutsu GG". If you can't comment something decent, please, leave
How about you stop being so damn aggressive towards me and YOU SHOULD SHUT UP ALREADY, the OP of the thread literally debunked it and you are being such a damn nuisance that I’ve just about had it with your wank BS
Dude cannot accept that Genjutsu GG was right at the end of the day
He resists like 4 different kinds of sealing spread across 4 different lores so... yeah. and portal-based BFR I explained earlier.
I uh, you do know I did give an example of an illusion that blows Genjutsu out of the water right? That conceptual illusion that perma incaps someone both in past and present? And Ungrim's resistance is indeed layered lol
Calm thy ponies, take a 30 minute break and come back after relaxing with some music or videos or whatever you do to relax
I said shut up godammit, please leave me alone for once in your goddamn lifeDude cannot accept that Genjutsu GG was right at the end of the day
How Sad
May copium bless you my boy
Honestly, I wish I could. But some guy keeps bugging me about one stupid post and keeps being so damn aggressive towards me that it’s giving me a headache
TBH I think it goes both ways, there's a line with Sadism that should be drawn, but flipping out only makes it worse
That was an trolling that I was so surprised that Cool fell through that I continued to the end. I don't even know anything about Naruto. So well, sorry for being annoying as ****
ironfist is 2086.3614 exatons and can amp his weapon to do 6 times damage. He has a 3 times damage boast but thats for monsters
He's actually like 180 or so, aka like 3x baseline 5-B
What is the source for that last justification?
Like I said, Ungrim is basically 3x baseline 5-B, so nah, there isn't a 70x AP gap
You said he's 180 Exatons right? or did you mean Zettatons
I always get the two mixed up, yeah it's probably Zettatons lol
Right, so Ungrim has a slight ap advantage and can amp himself up. How much can he amp himself to?
6 times for his weapons.
Right, then this match isn't quite nearly as decisive as I thought. I still think Sasuke can edge out though, he's got a lot of hax he doesn't resist (like Lightning spam) and has numerous defensive abilities to get out of harms way.
Erm, lightning? There's 4 different lores in Aethyr Manipulation that have lightning manipulation so...
Maybe, but Ungrims Lore doesn't have any resistance to lightning. It's all about fire and blood magic.
The strongest version of Adult Sasuke scales closer to 156.4 zettaons.
He can USE the lore of Aqshy as the incarnate of it, he resists ALL of the lores, in fact, every dwarf has an innate resistance to Aethyr Manipulation, this is stated on his page in his resistances section
comes from scaling to Six paths naruto who can fight fused momoshiki who is the combined power of Kinshiki and momoshiki who are both 78 zettatons
I mean, he CAN harm Ungrim physically, it's just going to take usage of his defensive options to get in close and... well, simply not hitting the hair literally made of fire
Limited Probability Manipulation (via the Rune of Luck which gives him greater chances to defend and attack his foes
Yes, a chance to do so, not 100% of the time lol
It isn't, that's why they're discussing it, genjutsu is a nonfactor here
It sounds like he's specifically resistant to any magic that stems from Aethyr Manipulation; Sasuke doesn't possess Aethyr Manipulation. So would his resistances still block Sasuke's attacks?
Because Aethyr Manipulation is everything. If it's supernatural in any way it falls under Aethyr Manipulation's resistance net of doom.
Both basically the same thing just with different methods of doing so
I'll show you what'll happen if Sasuke pins Ungrim down for too long.
I have lel, multiple times. It's a fun read.
If you think that's bad, wait until we bug Soma enough to get him to make the full detailed skill chain lol
