Santōryū vs Niten Ichi-ryū

[MonkeyOfLife]

• Heavenly Eyes: A set of extremely special Mystic Eyes that limit the infinite possibilities of the future into “a single” result. They are said to have the power to achieve one’s goal, as they take the measures for the sake of achieving an objective and narrow them down, one by one. Once Musashi has decided to do something, she will devote her body and soul to accomplish it without fail. As such you can even say that she places her entire existence on her gaze and projects it onto her objective. In Musashi's case, her Heavenly Eyes are only focused on "cutting a certain place". If she decided to “cut the opponent’s right arm”, she will take any means necessary to cut off the right arm. As a result, her attack becomes the most ideal slash for the situation, “a stroke with no wasted movement that bends time and space to its needs”. Due to these eyes, she used to see parallel worlds without trying to, and at some point, she accidentally jumped into one of those parallel worlds. As time went on she went on to continue jumping across parallel worlds, while not knowing the way back to her world.

She can't limit all future's possibilities, only 1 future possibility which Zoro can counter by seeing that single possibility

 

[Regidian]

Making one's attack "unreadable" is the lowest form of Kenbunshoku counter in One Piece. That works on Mantra, which is far inferior to the current level of Kenbunshoku users as far as we know.
You're mention summer Berserker Musashi and Zero Musashi things when again, it's pre-zero. I agree if this was Zero Musashi then she'd win by a landslide.

It's not the unreadable you talk off bruh.

It's the unreadable that even gil with his preco and clairvoyance can't read.

Berserker musashi heavenly eyes is the same as base musashi

 

[Regidian]

• Heavenly Eyes: A set of extremely special Mystic Eyes that limit the infinite possibilities of the future into “a single” result. They are said to have the power to achieve one’s goal, as they take the measures for the sake of achieving an objective and narrow them down, one by one. Once Musashi has decided to do something, she will devote her body and soul to accomplish it without fail. As such you can even say that she places her entire existence on her gaze and projects it onto her objective. In Musashi's case, her Heavenly Eyes are only focused on "cutting a certain place". If she decided to “cut the opponent’s right arm”, she will take any means necessary to cut off the right arm. As a result, her attack becomes the most ideal slash for the situation, “a stroke with no wasted movement that bends time and space to its needs”. Due to these eyes, she used to see parallel worlds without trying to, and at some point, she accidentally jumped into one of those parallel worlds. As time went on she went on to continue jumping across parallel worlds, while not knowing the way back to her world.

She can't limit all future's possibilities, only 1 future possibility which Zoro can counter by seeing that single possibility

He can see it but just that, as he doesn't exist other possibilities he can't do an other move as the possibility of him doing that doesn't exist anymore

 

[Nierre]

Alright so I just finished reading this thread and I have a question cause I'm kinda confused. Mostly about this fate manip vs precog or whatever you wanna call it.

So if Musashi used their fate hax to form only 1 possible future, where Zoro is cut. There's nothing he can do, correct? Or am I mistaken on how this works. Precog can't counter fate hax, correct? Speed amps can't counter fate hax, right? If the answer is yes to all of them, what are Zoro's wincons exactly?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

By the way, heathens there are like 50+ Swordsmen in the Nasuverse that you could use against Zoro but for some reason people only ever use Musashi and Sasaki.

This, i take Tsuna over Musashi or Sasaki even if he's weaker than both of two

Or Raikou but she's more effectively as DF Hunters

 

[Excaliburhuman]

• Heavenly Eyes: A set of extremely special Mystic Eyes that limit the infinite possibilities of the future into “a single” result. They are said to have the power to achieve one’s goal, as they take the measures for the sake of achieving an objective and narrow them down, one by one. Once Musashi has decided to do something, she will devote her body and soul to accomplish it without fail. As such you can even say that she places her entire existence on her gaze and projects it onto her objective. In Musashi's case, her Heavenly Eyes are only focused on "cutting a certain place". If she decided to “cut the opponent’s right arm”, she will take any means necessary to cut off the right arm. As a result, her attack becomes the most ideal slash for the situation, “a stroke with no wasted movement that bends time and space to its needs”. Due to these eyes, she used to see parallel worlds without trying to, and at some point, she accidentally jumped into one of those parallel worlds. As time went on she went on to continue jumping across parallel worlds, while not knowing the way back to her world.

She can't limit all future's possibilities, only 1 future possibility which Zoro can counter by seeing that single possibility

What you posted literally says she can limit all future possibilities into one. Seeing that possibility is not going to do anything other than the letting him know it is 100% going to happen.

 

[LordGinSama]

That's from Sasaki's stuff right? Him and Artoria Clashed several times, it's just that she wasn't able to analyze and counter him accordingly due to his ability. It isn't a resistance to Prediction as much as it was a resistance to Information Analysis since the point of the ability is to make sure the opponent never gets used to his attacks.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

He can see it but just that, as he doesn't exist other possibilities he can't do an other move as the possibility of him doing that doesn't exist anymore

If you can literally see the only outcome you would be able to make a different outcome... She would need to be able to limit all future infinite possibilities to make it so it doesn't get countered

 

[Regidian]

Alright so I just finished reading this thread and I have a question cause I'm kinda confused. Mostly about this fate manip vs precog or whatever you wanna call it.

So if Musashi used their fate hax to form only 1 possible future, where Zoro is cut. There's nothing he can do, correct? Or am I mistaken on how this works. Precog can't counter fate hax, correct? Speed amps can't counter fate hax, right? If the answer is yes to all of them, what are Zoro's wincons exactly?

It's that like Gin tell he could try to defeat her before she do that, but her eyes can do too preco and analytic info(like perfoming multiple time the battle in her head).

 

[LordGinSama]

This, i take Tsuna over Musashi or Sasaki even if he's weaker than both of two

Or Raikou but she's more effectively as DF Hunters

I was thinking amore along the lines of Okita tbh.

 

[Regidian]

That's from Sasaki's stuff right? Him and Artoria Clashed several times, it's just that she wasn't able to analyze and counter him accordingly due to his ability. It isn't a resistance to Prediction as much as it was a resistance to Information Analysis since the point of the ability is to make sure the opponent never gets used to his attacks.

Isshin have the skill too but a better version

 

[Nierre]

What you posted literally says she can limit all future possibilities into one. Seeing that possibility is not going to do anything other than the letting him know it is 100% going to happen.

So what I'm getting from this is, there's nothing Zoro can do to avoid this hax. All his precog does is let him know that it's going to happen.

 

[Excaliburhuman]

Alright so I just finished reading this thread and I have a question cause I'm kinda confused. Mostly about this fate manip vs precog or whatever you wanna call it.

So if Musashi used their fate hax to form only 1 possible future, where Zoro is cut. There's nothing he can do, correct? Or am I mistaken on how this works. Precog can't counter fate hax, correct? Speed amps can't counter fate hax, right? If the answer is yes to all of them, what are Zoro's wincons exactly?

Precog can not counter fate hax. If the speed amp is fast enough to that zoro kill musashi before she can react then that works since I don't believe her precog is passive.

 

[Regidian]

This, i take Tsuna over Musashi or Sasaki even if he's weaker than both of two

Or Raikou but she's more effectively as DF Hunters

Raikou is not that good as a swordmanship she like praticaly 0 feat

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Also does she start with that?

 

[Excaliburhuman]

So what I'm getting from this is, there's nothing Zoro can do to avoid this hax. All his precog does is let him know that it's going to happen.

Pretty much. If it activates then he really can't do anything.

 

[Regidian]

If you can literally see the only outcome you would be able to make a different outcome... She would need to be able to limit all future infinite possibilities to make it so it doesn't get countered

I mean it's what she do

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Precog can not counter fate hax.

Depending on the fate hax yes it can.

 

[Nierre]

Precog can not counter fate hax. If the speed amp is fast enough to that zoro kill musashi before she can react then that works since I don't believe her precog is passive.

Ohhhhhh, okay I get it.

Hmm interesting, since her precog isn't passive, when does she usually tend to use it?

 

[Regidian]

Habitually yes depend if she sense that zoro is a good swordmanship she could wait a little for it

 

[Regidian]

I was thinking amore along the lines of Okita tbh.

I will use okita alter so i'm sure that we got no problem

 

[Nierre]

Alright I got it, thanks for bearing with me, I'm not really knowledgeable on this type of stuff..

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I mean it's what she do

No... She limits 1 future of all possibilities into 1, she doesn't limit all futures of all possibilities

 

[LordGinSama]

Isshin have the skill too but a better version

Isshin? You mean the spear guy?

Habitually yes depend if she sense that zoro is a good swordmanship she could wait a little for it

With these two I think they'd want to drag out the fight as long as possible especially after Zoro breaks out Nitoryu (she'd definitely fangirl.)

 

[Nierre]

No... She limits 1 future of all possibilities into 1, she doesn't limit all futures of all possibilities

A set of extremely special Mystic Eyes that limit the infinite possibilities of the future into “a single” result.

It turns EVERYTHING into 1.

 

[LordGinSama]

I will use okita alter so i'm sure that we got no problem

Base Okita is better fight me.

 

[Regidian]

No... She limits 1 future of all possibilities into 1, she doesn't limit all futures of all possibilities

Yeah she limit all of them to 1 and so this one is unchangeable, except if now zoro have fate manip that allow to create new possibilities, he will just see a futur he can't change because it's locked to that event

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

It turns EVERYTHING into 1.

It says the future... Not all futures

 

[Regidian]

Base Okita is better fight me.

Their fight don't tell this, okita alter is like futur okita whitout her tuberculosis, and way more hax (okita alter is like she appear she np you die. And since her range is infinite hard to escape)

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

he will just see a futur he can't change because it's locked to that event

It's not locked... She just removes the infinite outcomes into 1 which Zoro can see and make a new outcome

 

[Nierre]

It says the future... Not all futures

It says infinite possibilities, referring to futures (plural), into 1 future.

 

[Excaliburhuman]

It's not locked... She just removes the infinite outcomes into 1 which Zoro can see and make a new outcome

Again he needs fate manip for that.

 

[Regidian]

It's not locked... She just removes the infinite outcomes into 1 which Zoro can see and make a new outcome

He can't making new outcome is fate manipulation which zoro doesn't have

 

[SnookB]

Pretty much. If it activates then he really can't do anything.

A set of extremely special Mystic Eyes that limit the infinite possibilities of the future into “a single” result. They are said to have the power to achieve one’s goal, as they take the measures for the sake of achieving an objective and narrow them down, one by one. Once Musashi has decided to do something, she will devote her body and soul to accomplish it without fail. As such you can even say that she places her entire existence on her gaze and projects it onto her objective. In Musashi's case, her Heavenly Eyes are only focused on "cutting a certain place". If she decided to “cut the opponent’s right arm”, she will take any means necessary to cut off the right arm. As a result, her attack becomes the most ideal slash for the situation, “a stroke with no wasted movement that bends time and space to its needs”.<

Again, if she narrows down all those possibilities into HER MOST IDEAL SCENARIO, it'd still be a scenario where Zoro foresees her slash. She reaches her ideal outcome and Zoro just changes it via foreseeing said ideal outcome. That's why I said relying on her eye and his foresight would result in a clash that wouldn't even occur. Whatever her ideal outcome is, he'd foresee it. And again, it's literally said to bend space/Time to its needs, and characters with strong enough haki can counter one of those two. (I don't know if it was ever specified to be busoshoku or haoshoku, but Kaido and BM passively counter that )
What's even the scale used for Haki countering them anyway? AP vs AP? It'd make sense since OP is mostly about brawn and Musashi's ability to cut down to the very last good outcome was negated by Ivan via sheer presence.

Zoro and Musashi's fight is just an hour of staring at eachother before one one shots the other.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Raikou is not that good as a swordmanship she like praticaly 0 feat

That's why i said she's better as DF hunters (DF mean Devil Fruits)

I will use okita alter so i'm sure that we got no problem

Ayo hold on, isn't she has concept erasure?

 

[Nierre]

It's not locked... She just removes the infinite outcomes into 1 which Zoro can see and make a new outcome

He doesn't have fate hax (yet) ((joking dont hurt me))

 

[LordGinSama]

Their fight don't tell this, okita alter is like futur okita whitout her tuberculosis, and way more hax (okita alter is like she appear she np you die. And since her range is infinite hard to escape)

I think your taking this too seriously mate I'm talking about wife quality

 

[Regidian]

You guy think making a new outcome is just deciding to go to right or left?


It's like in first he have right and left chose, musashi cut all possible chose except right, zoro see this but he can't do a thing he doesn't exist anymore a left choice or a go backwards chose etc.

 

[SnookB]

He can't making new outcome is fate manipulation which zoro doesn't have

Not necessarily. Foreseeing an action and countering it changes the future of that action, which creates a new outcome entirely. That isn't necessarily fate manip, it's just a domino effect.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Just close this thread... I mean, the statements in fate are vague af and fate supporters uses their own headcanon on how the ability works. I literally will get different answers from different fate supporters