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This is something I've wanted to do for a LONG time. He's already fought Sasaki Kojiro but NOW--!!

Roronoa Zoro:

vs

Musashi Miyamoto:


Inconclusive(Ends in booze and sex):

Speed Equal, Wano Zoro vs Base/Pre-Zero Musashi. Fight takes place in Wano's Flower Capital.
Two Swords vs Three Swords
Please don't be a stomp--
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Zoro would make a great Saber. Just sayin'
Zoro would make a god tier saber because Fate's fancy flowerly language would make his trichiliocosm cutting a literal concept-

Anyway- Voting Zoro.
Without her Zero Hax, he has the edge in just about everything. Causality/Fate manipulating attacks like hers are usually dealt with similiarly to Gae Bolg, where good Precog or even instinct like Artoria's can help avoid them, so his Kenbunshoku should be a clutch there.
He's got far more range, extremely outclasses her in versatility (far too many projectiles and a good AOE attack with Tatsumaki), and unless their speeds are equalized she's getting blitzed through the whole fight.
Assuming you're using 6-C key for both here? Otherwise if she taps him once he could be one shotted. Most of her other abilities (like fear manip, acausality and reality warp resistance) are either not combat applicable against Zoro or flat out don't work for the first one.
 
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What you just said are wrong, for the other servant, Fate and Causality are not combat applicable but for her it is. Its her Heavenly Eye, you cant do anything to her if you dont have any fate manip.
 
Zoro would make a god tier saber because Fate's fancy flowerly language would make his trichiliocosm cutting a literal concept-

Anyway- Voting Zoro.
Without her Zero Hax, he has the edge in just about everything. Causality/Fate manipulating attacks like hers are usually dealt with similiarly to Gae Bolg, where good Precog or even instinct like Artoria's can help avoid them, so his Kenbunshoku should be a clutch there.
He's got far more range, extremely outclasses her in versatility (far too many projectiles and a good AOE attack with Tatsumaki), and unless their speeds are equalized she's getting blitzed through the whole fight.
Assuming you're using 6-C key for both here? Otherwise if she taps him once he could be one shotted. Most of her other abilities (like fear manip, acausality and reality warp resistance) are either not combat applicable against Zoro or flat out don't work for the first one.
1 for Zoro!
Though, some people have a misconception about getting past Gae Bolg/causality changing attacks with just Precog. It's also stated, even on servant profiles, that their Luck stat is what really lets them overcome fate/causality based attacks like Gae Bolg. B rank Luck or higher is needed.

Though, again, if Zoro were a Saber Servant, I'm sure he'd have a high Luck stat since it's how he won over that shop keep and got Yubashiri. His luck over the curse.
 
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What you just said are wrong, for the other servant, Fate and Causality are not combat applicable but for her it is. Its her Heavenly Eye, you cant do anything to her if you dont have any fate manip.
Her heavenly eye seems far more offense than defense, though. Her fifth form can be argued to be some form of intangibility/Invincibility, but if it's the former then Busoshoku should force her to take form regardless. We've seen it negate space manip after all. If anything her heavenly eye gives her a high chance of landing fatal blows on him that should be the definitively landing strikes, but it feels like his precognition would just negate THAT as well.
Only reason it feels that way is because Artoria avoiding an NP that does warp fate and causality was attributed to not just her luck but "instinct" as well, meaning her pseudo precognition had a role in it. And I highly doubt instinct is close to Kenbunshoku in its accuracy. Do feel free to educate me regardless- I know less about Fate than I do One Piece.
 
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Her heavenly eye seems far more offense than defense, though. Her fifth form can be argued to be some form of intangibility/Invincibility, but if it's the former then Busoshoku should force her to take form regardless. We've seen it negate space manip after all. If anything her heavenly eye gives her a high chance of landing fatal blows on him that should be the definitively landing strikes, but it feels like his precognition would just negate THAT as well.
Only reason it feels that way is because Artoria avoiding an NP that does warp fate and causality was attributed to not just her luck but "instinct" as well, meaning her pseudo precognition had a role in it. And I highly doubt instinct is close to Kenbunshoku in its accuracy. Do feel free to educate me regardless- I know less about Fate than I do One Piece.
Her heavenly eyes are for the two, she just use it more offensively but when she had battle yagyuu it was in defense term when she could just see al possibility to know where she need to evade.

The fifth form negate space atk it described even in the text. But she got it with Zero so not with pre zero.


And she already countered many preco with her eyes + her preco would be way better.

For gae bolg it was mostly due to her luck for the causality part, the instinct just was her to know that he was doing that. It like instinct she know he atk>he atk>her luck counter the NP.


And for instinct it depend, mhx can sense you from an another universe and predict pretty much everything you do. And she have only it at rank C, but rank doesn't latter that much now lol
 
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Zoro would make a god tier saber because Fate's fancy flowerly language would make his trichiliocosm cutting a literal concept-

Anyway- Voting Zoro.
Without her Zero Hax, he has the edge in just about everything. Causality/Fate manipulating attacks like hers are usually dealt with similiarly to Gae Bolg, where good Precog or even instinct like Artoria's can help avoid them, so his Kenbunshoku should be a clutch there.
Will it work against her acausality?
 

Everything12

VS Battles
Thread Moderator
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Gae Bolg works by making it so that it reverses Causality so the effect of "the heartening pierced" leads to the cause of "the Spear being thrust", thus the heart has already been pierced even before the spear has moved. Its only through Luck great enough to change fate that Saber was able to dodge this strike even with the help of Instinct, otherwise not even EX rank speed would help survive the strike.

Basically, on its own Instinct or Eye of the Mind would do nothing to allow you to escape Gae Bolg or Musashi's Causality Manipulation, and having fate defying Luck is absolutely necessary to even attempt to survive.

Also, yeah. Acausality Type 4 goes no to Precognition anyway.
 
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Heavenly eyes is preco and fate manip, it's allow her to always see infinite possibilities in combat and predict every movement
The difference between her precog and his is that she foresees all possibilities, which is more analytical. Zoro sees the definitive outcome due to his precgnition being more based on sensing one's intent than foreseeing what "could" be the next move. I'd say definitive precognition is superior to predicting every outcome of a move and choosing the best counter, even if the latter sounds far fancier.
Why would Type 4 Acausality negate Kenbunshoku? Typical precognition relies on foreseeing the future, while Kenbunshoku directly foresees one's very intent. (That's why Lufy's precognition countered Katakuri's precognition, even though Katakuri's was far superior.)

Her form of acausality is reliant on her not existing within the regular flow of the universe, but even she has intent when attacking. And as far as I'm aware we've never seen a kenbunshoku user that relies on intent than typical precognition (Like Katakuri) fail to foresee the right outcome. In luffy's case he just Failed to react when against Kaido.
As far as I know, instinct isn't even basic foresight, it's more akin to Sharingan than actual future seeing, since it's described as "the ability to instantly identify “the best personal course of action” during combat. Because this Skill allows for the prediction of trajectory, it is possible to avoid attacks from firearms." And is specifically called PREDICTION rather than foresight/precognition.

Musashi has precognition? I thought her ability to shave down all possibilities was only post-Zero. (Even then it doesn't qualify as precognition as much as it's just fate manip). Again- it's so far only been offense applicable since she only does it for attacking, since it's specifically said that HER STRIKE bends space to let the outcome of it be in her favor. Nothing's mentioned about defense. Still, even then- Kaido and Big Mom were shown to passively negate space manipulation with their haki. What's stopping Zoro from flat out overcoming it the same way they did Room's properties? (Which are basically nearly the same, since a slash in your general direction within Room is guaranteed to hit since it literally shaves the space between you and your opponent and negating their dura entirely while at it, unless their Haki's superior, like in Law/Kaido's case)
As for her fifth form- I'm curious.
Does it remove her from the dimension of battle entirely, or does it just grant her intangibility? Or invulnerability? Wouldn't haki just bypass her intangibility if it were the former? (Unless it's bfr based like Obito/Hit existing in a seperate dimension with their abilities.)
It's strange how Zoro doesn't have Ryuou via Enma on his profile, even though we've seen Enma bypass Kaido's durability during Black Rope Tatsumaki.
 
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The difference between her precog and his is that she foresees all possibilities, which is more analytical. Zoro sees the definitive outcome due to his precgnition being more based on sensing one's intent than foreseeing what "could" be the next move. I'd say definitive precognition is superior to predicting every outcome of a move and choosing the best counter, even if the latter sounds far fancier.
Yup. Well said.
 
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The difference between her precog and his is that she foresees all possibilities, which is more analytical. Zoro sees the definitive outcome due to his precgnition being more based on sensing one's intent than foreseeing what "could" be the next move. I'd say definitive precognition is superior to predicting every outcome of a move and choosing the best counter, even if the latter sounds far fancier.
Why would Type 4 Acausality negate Kenbunshoku? Typical precognition relies on foreseeing the future, while Kenbunshoku directly foresees one's very intent. (That's why Lufy's precognition countered Katakuri's precognition, even though Katakuri's was far superior.)

Her form of acausality is reliant on her not existing within the regular flow of the universe, but even she has intent when attacking. And as far as I'm aware we've never seen a kenbunshoku user that relies on intent than typical precognition (Like Katakuri) fail to foresee the right outcome. In luffy's case he just Failed to react when against Kaido.
As far as I know, instinct isn't even basic foresight, it's more akin to Sharingan than actual future seeing, since it's described as "the ability to instantly identify “the best personal course of action” during combat. Because this Skill allows for the prediction of trajectory, it is possible to avoid attacks from firearms." And is specifically called PREDICTION rather than foresight/precognition.

Musashi has precognition? I thought her ability to shave down all possibilities was only post-Zero. (Even then it doesn't qualify as precognition as much as it's just fate manip). Again- it's so far only been offense applicable since she only does it for attacking, since it's specifically said that HER STRIKE bends space to let the outcome of it be in her favor. Nothing's mentioned about defense. Still, even then- Kaido and Big Mom were shown to passively negate space manipulation with their haki. What's stopping Zoro from flat out overcoming it the same way they did Room's properties? (Which are basically nearly the same, since a slash in your general direction within Room is guaranteed to hit since it literally shaves the space between you and your opponent and negating their dura entirely while at it, unless their Haki's superior, like in Law/Kaido's case)
As for her fifth form- I'm curious.
Does it remove her from the dimension of battle entirely, or does it just grant her intangibility? Or invulnerability? Wouldn't haki just bypass her intangibility if it were the former? (Unless it's bfr based like Obito/Hit existing in a seperate dimension with their abilities.)
It's strange how Zoro doesn't have Ryuou via Enma on his profile, even though we've seen Enma bypass Kaido's durability during Black Rope Tatsumaki.
She have precog with heavenly eyes, it does not only shave possibility.

Sensing one intent is not really precognition and pretty much every servant can do this... And i don't understand how sensing an intent is supperior when skilled can just like make atk that defies her intent or like musashi just manipulate time and space to make her intent an absolute. And Pretty much every servant resist space manipulation in a better extant than OP and they still get affect by musashi.

+ Musashi can not only see the possibility, she chose the one she want to win by shaving the other

For the rest i mean it doesn't exist a acausality type 4 in op so not failing for normal people doesn't mean it will not fail for her. And

And why you talk about instinct skill? We talk about heavenly eyes. And what you described is what do at base instinct, every instinct is distinct from the other and rank A allow to see the futur

At that time, the "Heavenly Eye" that were honed to the utmost limits can see through the enemies' each and every defensive actions, and demolish them.

She use them too to see the action, same for her predict analysis, and her style of fighting. (And if you ask she have do these with people she never fighted before)

 
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Mind's eye isn't FORESIGHT, it's basically "imaginary training" in dragon ball, or Garou's prediction (where he foresaw dozens of possibilities of King doing an attack, when King wasn't even the one that attacked him in the end.) To quote it directly, it's literally- "localized as: False Insight is a natural talent to foresee/sense and avoid danger on the basis of an innate 6th sense, intuition, or prescience. The accuracy of this instinct can be augmented by experience."
While TRUE Mind's eye : "is a heightened capacity for observation, refined through training, discipline and experience. A danger-avoidance ability that utilizes the intelligence collected up to the current time as the basis in order to predict the opponent’s activity and change the current situation. This is not a result of talent, but an overwhelming amount of combat experience. "
BOTH rely on prediction, one just more combat and instinct oriented while the Fake mind's eye is basically studying/Predicting outcomes prior to combat.
In Musashi's case, quoting her:
"The essence of my Niten Ichiryu lies in ADAPTING TO THOUSANDS OF POSSIBILITIES." Hers is the fake mind's eye and true mind's eye in one, since she can read thousands of outcomes during the battle itself, than analytically viewing it beforehand, while ALSO being able to image train even before fighting her opponent.

The difference between her and Zoro is that Zoro doesn't foresee possibility, he foresees OUTCOME the second you intend it. Kenbunshoku for the likes of Zoro and Luffy has been repeatedly shown to be always accurate, while Katakuri's precognition has several instances of it being countered/Changed due to his being overall precognition, while Zoro's, albeit far inferior in the length of foresight, is still definitive since it foresees what you "intend" to do, not predicts what thousands of things you COULD do.

To make it simpler one would be:
Mind's eye: Foresees thousands of things you COULD do and chooses a single outcome that can negate all
Kenbunshoku: Foresees what you "intent", meaning it doesn't rely on "chance", just definitive foresight with the only way of overcoming it being far too fast for the user to even react to what they foresaw (>Luffy vs Kaido's thunder Bagua on the roof). They don't "predict" it, they just foresee your intent the second you have it.

Kenbunshoku is just far superior. It has far less inconsistencies. You could counter mind's eye by foreseeing what the user's move is going to be and countering it. (Similiarly to how Luffy's Kenbunshoku negated Katakuri's foresight).

That aside- her mind's eye clashing with his Kenbunshoku would likely result in both being practically pointless, since every outcome she could predict, he'd foresee her countering it before she even does it. To attack, she'll need to "intend" her attack first. Unless she has Ultra instinct-

It boils down to being a head on battle. So what does she have offensively that can put Zoro down before he breaks her swords?
 
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Mind's eye isn't FORESIGHT, it's basically "imaginary training" in dragon ball, or Garou's prediction (where he foresaw dozens of possibilities of King doing an attack, when King wasn't even the one that attacked him in the end.) To quote it directly, it's literally- "localized as: False Insight is a natural talent to foresee/sense and avoid danger on the basis of an innate 6th sense, intuition, or prescience. The accuracy of this instinct can be augmented by experience."
While TRUE Mind's eye : "is a heightened capacity for observation, refined through training, discipline and experience. A danger-avoidance ability that utilizes the intelligence collected up to the current time as the basis in order to predict the opponent’s activity and change the current situation. This is not a result of talent, but an overwhelming amount of combat experience. "
BOTH rely on prediction, one just more combat and instinct oriented while the Fake mind's eye is basically studying/Predicting outcomes prior to combat.
In Musashi's case, quoting her:
"The essence of my Niten Ichiryu lies in ADAPTING TO THOUSANDS OF POSSIBILITIES." Hers is the fake mind's eye and true mind's eye in one, since she can read thousands of outcomes during the battle itself, than analytically viewing it beforehand, while ALSO being able to image train even before fighting her opponent.

The difference between her and Zoro is that Zoro doesn't foresee possibility, he foresees OUTCOME the second you intend it. Kenbunshoku for the likes of Zoro and Luffy has been repeatedly shown to be always accurate, while Katakuri's precognition has several instances of it being countered/Changed due to his being overall precognition, while Zoro's, albeit far inferior in the length of foresight, is still definitive since it foresees what you "intend" to do, not predicts what thousands of things you COULD do.

To make it simpler one would be:
Mind's eye: Foresees thousands of things you COULD do and chooses a single outcome that can negate all
Kenbunshoku: Foresees what you "intent", meaning it doesn't rely on "chance", just definitive foresight with the only way of overcoming it being far too fast for the user to even react to what they foresaw (>Luffy vs Kaido's thunder Bagua on the roof). They don't "predict" it, they just foresee your intent the second you have it.

Kenbunshoku is just far superior. It has far less inconsistencies. You could counter mind's eye by foreseeing what the user's move is going to be and countering it. (Similiarly to how Luffy's Kenbunshoku negated Katakuri's foresight).

That aside- her mind's eye clashing with his Kenbunshoku would likely result in both being practically pointless, since every outcome she could predict, he'd foresee her countering it before she even does it. To attack, she'll need to "intend" her attack first. Unless she has Ultra instinct-

It boils down to being a head on battle. So what does she have offensively that can put Zoro down before he breaks her swords?
Musashi doesn't have mind eyes (neither of the two) + have you read the heavenly eyes quote i send?

And Musashi doesn't need to foresee outcome (even tho she does as she litteraly foresee every outcome so death she had when facing lancer and had chose the outcome when she win) she litteraly chose the one she want when facing him, zoro can't litteraly does a thing as she litteraly chose the possibility she want to be the outcome

Except the thing you tell doesn't work in fate as nobody have only one intent, musashi litteraly fighted yagyuu who have is intent present in every possibility she was able to see + acausality type 4 will litteraly mean that he can't foresee her intent.

She have litteraly better prediction than arturia/scathach who can see the futur, and you talk about foresee bruh when she litteraly fight and win guy that do it better....

+ How you can tell that he have far less inconstency when we have see it failed so many time? You litteraly tell it that his preco fail the moment someone do something like him or his quicker when she has use it to fight someone who was several quicker than her and infinity speed (yagyuu) before entering go zero.

And to atk musashi chose her possibility, she doesn't intent something, she see all possibilities and chose the one she want to win.

And zoro would never be able to broke her sword, Ivan a 1-C wasn't able to do it, it not zoro who could make it.
 
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Kenbunshoku for the likes of Zoro and Luffy has been repeatedly shown to be always accurate, while Katakuri's precognition has several instances of it being countered/Changed due to his being overall precognition, while Zoro's, albeit far inferior in the length of foresight, is still definitive since it foresees what you "intend" to do, not predicts what thousands of things you COULD do.
Kata's FS has only ever failed against other FS users (Sanji and Luffy) while Luffy before getting his own FS was being hit by Kata all the time, regardless of his own Kenbu. Pre-FS Kenbu is also just a combo of mind reading and aura reading, hard to deal with but nothing impossible as you are trying to make it seem.

I don't care about the outcome of this thread as Post-TS OP is going through a heavy downgrade now but meh.
 
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Kata's FS has only ever failed against other FS users (Sanji and Luffy) while Luffy before getting his own FS was being hit by Kata all the time, regardless of his own Kenbu. Pre-FS Kenbu is also just a combo of mind reading and aura reading, hard to deal with but nothing impossible as you are trying to make it seem.

I don't care about the outcome of this thread as Post-TS OP is going through a heavy downgrade now but meh.
He like telling that being able to see one outcome based one something as simple as intent is better than seeing every possibility and choosing the one you want...

In all the possibility she see she like litteraly see the moment zoro use his preco so she like counter it directly
 
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You're misunderstanding the "intent" quote entirely.
Intentions aren't what result in Kebunshoku working. Kenbunshoku foresees what you're straight up going to do because that's what your intent lands on. It isn't "predicting every intention" it's "Foreseeing what action your intent lands you on". That's why Katakuri's foresight can be argued to be inferior to Luffy's, because Luffy flat out foresees the outcome based on your emotions, than just foresee what COULD occur.
Again- causality type 4 works on traditional foresight, not combat precognition. Foreseeing the universal future vs Foreseeing what you're literally going to do next are two different things.
Kata's FS has only ever failed against other FS users (Sanji and Luffy) while Luffy before getting his own FS was being hit by Kata all the time, regardless of his own Kenbu. Pre-FS Kenbu is also just a combo of mind reading and aura reading, hard to deal with but nothing impossible as you are trying to make it seem.

Didn't Katakuri's foresight entirely fail him during the wedding too? Where everything he foresaw was getting changed because the events involving Bege, the cake falling and the box exploding basically resulted in an entirely different future?
That's supernatural luck at its finest, not precog countering precog.

Also fair- Zoro's getting downgraded back to tier 7? Didn't Damage say the Pica scaling is left on hold until the PRE-TS ones are done? There's still a chance he says 6-C because of Hody, Hyozu and all.
 
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He like telling that being able to see one outcome based one something as simple as intent is better than seeing every possibility and choosing the one you want...
Foreseeing what you're going to definitely do > Predicting thousands of things you COULD do. It's only logical.
 
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You're misunderstanding the "intent" quote entirely.
Intentions aren't what result in Kebunshoku working. Kenbunshoku foresees what you're straight up going to do because that's what your intent lands on. It isn't "predicting every intention" it's "Foreseeing what action your intent lands you on". That's why Katakuri's foresight can be argued to be inferior to Luffy's, because Luffy flat out foresees the outcome based on your emotions, than just foresee what COULD occur.
Again- causality type 4 works on traditional foresight, not combat precognition. Foreseeing the universal future vs Foreseeing what you're literally going to do next are two different things.


Didn't Katakuri's foresight entirely fail him during the wedding too? Where everything he foresaw was getting changed because the events involving Bege, the cake falling and the box exploding basically resulted in an entirely different future?
That's supernatural luck at its finest, not precog countering precog.

Also fair- Zoro's getting downgraded back to tier 7? Didn't Damage say the Pica scaling is left on hold until the PRE-TS ones are done? There's still a chance he says 6-C because of Hody, Hyozu and all.
Cool but it just a simple prediction i mean it was countered multiple time on OP so why you try to talk as it's ansolute?.

Yagyu litteraly do it with all possible outcome.

Using this technique, he is capable of accounting for all possible outcomes of a situation, and staying a step ahead of all of them.

Like i tell being to predict/foresse what a guy do based on their emotion/intention is like a thing every servant do, it's on servant physiology, i'm pretty sure it's the absolute basic of prediction.
Also let me address the "Zoro's Precognition won't work." that's outright bull shit since Zoro doesn't utilize Future Sight. His Kenbunshoku Haki works via reading the mind, intents, danger and so on. Zoro isn't Kata who looks into the future so her type 4 is meaningless.
Okay but if we go by this it's even more easy? You can't read the mind of servant they resist it, all servant are able to read/sense danger and intent
 
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Short and simple. Her type 4 negates psychic foresight, or overall foresight. Similiar to Shyrley's or Katakuri's. Zoro's is combat reliant and simply works too differently than traditional future seeing to fall under that same category that's negated by type 4. Her existing outside of the laws of the universe doesn't mean she has no thought process or emotions, which is what Zoro/Luffy's kenbunshoku works off of.
 
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Also Zoro has like 3 forms of Analytical Prediction without the usage of Kenbunshoku, Goken based Prediction which in of itself has 2 forms of Prediction and he gets another form of Prediction later on in the form of mental images.


Saying Musashi's precognition / Prediction is better than Zoro's is false as they're two different types of Prediction. Her being able to know infinite possibilities doesn't make it superior to Zoro's.



I also have some very serious doubts on Musashi resorting to her fate hax for an auto win whene against another honorable swordsman like Zoro. That wouldn't make sense as the entire point of her character is that she likes a good sword clash.
 
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Also Zoro has like 3 forms of Analytical Prediction without the usage of Kenbunshoku, Goken based Prediction which in of itself has 2 forms of Prediction and he gets another form of Prediction later on in the form of mental images.


Saying Musashi's precognition / Prediction is better than Zoro's is false as they're two different types of Prediction. Her being able to know infinite possibilities doesn't make it superior to Zoro's.



I also have some very serious doubts on Musashi resorting to her fate hax for an auto win whene against another honorable swordsman like Zoro. That wouldn't make sense as the entire point of her character is that she likes a good sword clash.
She like good clash but doesn't like to lose so no?
 
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Cool but it just a simple prediction i mean it was countered multiple time on OP so why you try to talk as it's ansolute?.

Yagyu litteraly do it with all possible outcome.

Using this technique, he is capable of accounting for all possible outcomes of a situation, and staying a step ahead of all of them.

Like i tell being to predict/foresse what a guy do based on their emotion/intention is like a thing every servant do, it's on servant physiology, i'm pretty sure it's the absolute basic of prediction.
Okay but if we go by this it's even more easy? You can't read the mind of servant they resist it, all servant are able to read/sense danger and intent
Clearly you don't understand what Kenbunshoku is if you're calling it "Only prediction". Every capable fighter in One Piece can predict trajectory. Kenbunshoku is quite literally seeing the future/Sensing the future. In Zoro's case, he sees the outcome that your final decision leads to, rather than predicting what you intend to do before you even decide it.
 
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Okay but if we go by this it's even more easy? You can't read the mind of servant they resist it, all servant are able to read/sense danger and intent
All Servant's aren't able to read Danger sensing and Intent, and Kenbunshoku packs a lot of the stuff listed above. Kenbunshoku Haki can detect damn near every emotion possible, on top of Kenbunshoku Haki users having more forms of enhanced senses than the majority of Servant's.
 
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All Servant's aren't able to read Danger sensing and Intent, and Kenbunshoku packs a lot of the stuff listed above. Kenbunshoku Haki can detect damn near every emotion possible, on top of Kenbunshoku Haki users having more forms of enhanced senses than the majority of Servant's.
They all do for the emotion, not all for the danger but musashi do as it a basic thing for swordmaster
 
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Also "all possible outcomes." is vague as fuck. Said outcomes don't have an actual number behind them, unless every Servant has like infinite numbers of attacks they can use. Movements are limited.
 
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Didn't Katakuri's foresight entirely fail him during the wedding too? Where everything he foresaw was getting changed because the events involving Bege, the cake falling and the box exploding basically resulted in an entirely different future?
That's supernatural luck at its finest, not precog countering precog.
Not really? When telling Bege to kill Luffy he had yet to see Bege's actions in the future (his precog is just 5 or so seconds), it never failed it just couldn't see far enough to stop every single action the "Alliance" was taking.

Clearly you don't understand what Kenbunshoku is if you're calling it "Only prediction". Every capable fighter in One Piece can predict trajectory. Kenbunshoku is quite literally seeing the future/Sensing the future. In Zoro's case, he sees the outcome that your final decision leads to, rather than predicting what you intend to do before you even decide it.
No, Future Sight users (Kata, Sanji and Luffy) can see the future, no one else can.
 
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Wait. I thought they were just joking when they said about making a Zoro vs Musashi aka a swordsman supposedly less skilled than Kojiro. I can already tell this won't end up well.
 
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Also "all possible outcomes." is vague as fuck. Said outcomes don't have an actual number behind them, unless every Servant has like infinite numbers of attacks they can use. Movements are limited.
Well suigetsu is tell to be a differt version of infinity of sasaki is juste that sasaki atk with infinitybpossibility in same time when suigetsu can counter every outcome.

It's just in fate possibility are not obligatory outcome
 
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Wait. I thought they were just joking when they said about making a Zoro vs Musashi aka a swordsman supposedly less skilled than Kojiro. I can already tell this won't end up well.
It's going fine so far, there just seems to be some confusion with how Kenbunshoku Haki works.




Also a sidenote, Zoro has stupid good Supernatural Luck, back in East Blue he avoided being cut by a cursed sword with his Luck alone and said cursed sword is said to bring a terrible death to the user. So his Luck has essentially been countering a curse for years.
 
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Wait. I thought they were just joking when they said about making a Zoro vs Musashi aka a swordsman supposedly less skilled than Kojiro. I can already tell this won't end up well.
Musashi is more skilled than kojiro now on fgo, just pre zero musashi who is less, but she have her heavenly eyes but that she can make the law of world obey her to counter it
 
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Well suigetsu is tell to be a differt version of infinity of sasaki is juste that sasaki atk with infinitybpossibility in same time when suigetsu can counter every outcome.
Mind going over this again? I can't quite understand what your saying here no offense.
It's just in fate possibility are not obligatory outcome
Works the same in One Piece, the future can always be changed by the actions of others as seen with Katakuri and Sanji using FS. Katakuri saw what Sanji was going to do and saw himself killing Sanji then Sanji tricked it by dodging with his own future sight.
 
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Clearly you don't understand what Kenbunshoku is if you're calling it "Only prediction". Every capable fighter in One Piece can predict trajectory. Kenbunshoku is quite literally seeing the future/Sensing the future. In Zoro's case, he sees the outcome that your final decision leads to, rather than predicting what you intend to do before you even decide it.
I mean it's you who doesn't understand that i have tell you that musashi have already deal with guy who does that? Scathach can litteraly see the futur in combat and years after
 
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Also "all possible outcomes." is vague as fuck. Said outcomes don't have an actual number behind them, unless every Servant has like infinite numbers of attacks they can use. Movements are limited.
It's stated as thousands, but even then it's less precognition and more analysis. It's like Garou seeing King in the street, predicting dozens of outcomes, but gets kicked by Saitama instead. Her eye isn't future seeing, it's predicting possibilities.
And again, it's used far more for offense. Giving it to her based on defense sounds headcanon-y when it's literally described as the ability to reach what the user deems the perfect way of attacking.

It's just in fate possibility are not obligatory outcome
So you're saying that what her eye foresees is possibility, correct? That doesn't make it inferior to Kenbunshoku foreseeing the next definitive attack based on your emotions and intent? There isn't a single instance of it being countered unless it's by other Kenbunshoku users who see the one definitive thing you're about to do.

Again, you're ENTIRELY mixing up future sight with analytical prediction, which is what her ability (and every mind's eye) is.
 
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Mind going over this again? I can't quite understand what your saying here no offense.

Works the same in One Piece, the future can always be changed by the actions of others as seen with Katakuri and Sanji using FS. Katakuri saw what Sanji was going to do and saw himself killing Sanji then Sanji tricked it by dodging with his own future sight.
Yeah you tell that every outcome was vague because no number, i tell you that suigetsu work like infinity, it's just that infinity is based on attacking with infinity possibility when suigetsu it's to counter every outcome.

If outcome doesn't have a clear number is because a possibility is not obligatory an outcome and so you don't have infinity outcome
 
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I mean it's you who doesn't understand that i have tell you that musashi have already deal with guy who does that? Scathach can litteraly see the futur in combat and years after
Musashi and Lancer never fought although I'd pay to see a wrestling match between em. But like we said above, the distance you see into the future isn't the only thing that we look at when deciding what Prediction is better.
 
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Seeing every "possible" future vs Seeing the future that is about to occur for sure are two different things entirely- Again, everything you named sounds like analytical prediction than actual foresight.
 
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It's stated as thousands, but even then it's less precognition and more analysis. It's like Garou seeing King in the street, predicting dozens of outcomes, but gets kicked by Saitama instead. Her eye isn't future seeing, it's predicting possibilities.
Yeah but that's still vague as we don't know if it's movements, attacks or whatever she's predicting or if it's even linear. There's a lot that you can get from "thousands." and what kind of attacks?
And again, it's used far more for offense. Giving it to her based on defense sounds headcanon-y when it's literally described as the ability to reach what the user deems the perfect way of attacking.
Fair.
 

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Idk what you guys are arguing about heaven's eye aren't precog they are probability/fate manipulation they make it so among the infinite existing possibilities only the ones that are ideal for Musashi comes to be
 
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Yeah but that's still vague as we don't know if it's movements, attacks or whatever she's predicting or if it's even linear. There's a lot that you can get from "thousands." and what kind of attacks?
I'm assuming it doesn't refer to "possible techniques" as much as just general combat. Like how they'll swing their blade next, or if they're try an feint, etc- (If it was for actual named techniques only it'd make no sense for it to be thousands, since servants have 10 skills at most-)
 
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Yeah you tell that every outcome was vague because no number, i tell you that suigetsu work like infinity, it's just that infinity is based on attacking with infinity possibility when suigetsu it's to counter every outcome.
Which again depends on the opponent's and the amount of attacks they have at their disposal. That could range from 2 attacks, to thousands to infinite, all of which are predicting every outcome that's possible for the opponent.
If outcome doesn't have a clear number is because a possibility is not obligatory an outcome and so you don't have infinity outcome
Outcomes have a pretty clear number, again like I said that depends on the opponent who's being predicted.
 
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Seeing every "possible" future vs Seeing the future that is about to occur for sure are two different things entirely- Again, everything you named sounds like analytical prediction than actual foresight.
The description in her profile straight up says it narrows infinite futures to a single one? If you don't agree with it being Future Sight that's okay, but what part of that is analytical prediction?
 
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It's stated as thousands, but even then it's less precognition and more analysis. It's like Garou seeing King in the street, predicting dozens of outcomes, but gets kicked by Saitama instead. Her eye isn't future seeing, it's predicting possibilities.
And again, it's used far more for offense. Giving it to her based on defense sounds headcanon-y when it's literally described as the ability to reach what the user deems the perfect way of attacking.


So you're saying that what her eye foresees is possibility, correct? That doesn't make it inferior to Kenbunshoku foreseeing the next definitive attack based on your emotions and intent? There isn't a single instance of it being countered unless it's by other Kenbunshoku users who see the one definitive thing you're about to do.

Again, you're ENTIRELY mixing up future sight with analytical prediction, which is what her ability (and every mind's eye) is.
You confond thing it's musashi nugestu that talk about thousand possibility not yagyu suigetsu... Not even being capable to read the difference between her technique and heavenly eyes is weird. And her heavenly eyes is stated as seing infinity possibly not only thousand. And she doesn't only predict a combat with one variant, she would be dead by Ivan if that was the case.

Talk about headcannon when i litteraly show a scan where she use it for defense, it's not even laughable....



Again what you tell she can do it + It's on servant physiology that every servant can predict thing based on emotion and intent.


"At that time, the "Heavenly Eye" that were honed to the utmost limits can see through the enemies' each and every defensive actions, and demolish them."
 

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Outcomes have a pretty clear number, again like I said that depends on the opponent who's being predicted.
From her fgo profile:
Heavenly Eye is said to be the power to achieve one's goals. It's an act of resolve to do something, then putting your entire body and soul into achieving it. One could say that it's an act of putting your entire self and existence into your gaze, and projecting it towards your goal.
In Musashi's case, Heavenly Eye is used only to wield her blade on the spot. For example, if she decides to cut her opponent's right arm, she'll do whatever it takes to sever it. Her strike will be optimized, bending time and space toward achieving this goal.
The power to narrow down all potential options for achieving a goal into a single eventuality. It could also be described as a very special type of Mystic Eye, which narrows an infinite number of possible futures down to only one.
 
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Musashi and Lancer never fought although I'd pay to see a wrestling match between em. But like we said above, the distance you see into the future isn't the only thing that we look at when deciding what Prediction is better.
Actually they have fight in a event, but i mean it's not just about the distance for her you should know
 
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Idk what you guys are arguing about heaven's eye aren't precog they are probability/fate manipulation they make it so among the infinite existing possibilities only the ones that are ideal for Musashi comes to be
This also. The eyes aren't precognition but rather Fate Manipulation.
I'm assuming it doesn't refer to "possible techniques" as much as just general combat. Like how they'll swing their blade next, or if they're try an feint, etc- (If it was for actual named techniques only it'd make no sense for it to be thousands, since servants have 10 skills at most-)
If it's for thousands of standard attacks then I'm still skeptical of that, I doubt Servant's can attack you in thousands of different patterns and if they can then why is Musashi's reactions not calculated and on the profile? That's a shit ton of information she'd need to process instantly, Itachi has a similar feat and it got FTL.


Aside from that obvious issue, I think it also depends on the Servant in question. In canon what Servant's has she fought?
 
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From her fgo profile:
Heavenly Eye is said to be the power to achieve one's goals. It's an act of resolve to do something, then putting your entire body and soul into achieving it. One could say that it's an act of putting your entire self and existence into your gaze, and projecting it towards your goal.
In Musashi's case, Heavenly Eye is used only to wield her blade on the spot. For example, if she decides to cut her opponent's right arm, she'll do whatever it takes to sever it. Her strike will be optimized, bending time and space toward achieving this goal.
The power to narrow down all potential options for achieving a goal into a single eventuality. It could also be described as a very special type of Mystic Eye, which narrows an infinite number of possible futures down to only one.

And again- if/When her ideal outcome is reached, then his Kenbunshoku would just foresee her making said move. Unless she magically blitzes him. Which isn't happening with or without speed equalization.
The description in her profile straight up says it narrows infinite futures to a single one? If you don't agree with it being Future Sight that's okay, but what part of that is analytical prediction?
That's not what I was addressing. I was talking about characters' ability to predict possible future events and whatnot. (Mind's eye, rather)

Assuming she just lands her perfect hit on him is strange because she's never fought a precog user on Zoro's level with his Kenbunshoku.
 
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Which again depends on the opponent's and the amount of attacks they have at their disposal. That could range from 2 attacks, to thousands to infinite, all of which are predicting every outcome that's possible for the opponent.

Outcomes have a pretty clear number, again like I said that depends on the opponent who's being predicted.
I mean suigetsu can work on infinity sasaki and his infinity and had work on musashi and her heavenly eyes so i don't understand what you want to tell
 

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And again- if/When her ideal outcome is reached, then his Kenbunshoku would just foresee her making said move. Unless she magically blitzes him. Which isn't happening with or without speed equalization.
It's not precog it's fate manip once the outcome has been reached its done you can't counter fate manip with precog
 
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And again- if/When her ideal outcome is reached, then his Kenbunshoku would just foresee her making said move. Unless she magically blitzes him. Which isn't happening with or without speed equalization.

That's not what I was addressing. I was talking about characters' ability to predict possible future events and whatnot. (Mind's eye, rather)

Assuming she just lands her perfect hit on him is strange because she's never fought a precog user on Zoro's level with his Kenbunshoku.
Everything you described as kenbunshoku is something that every swordmaster do, sensing intent, emotion, danger, seing their soul is something they do
 
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Assuming she just lands her perfect hit on him is strange because she's never fought a precog user on Zoro's level with his Kenbunshoku.
She uses fate hax as well as spacetime hax to make a single future possible, unless Zoro has dealt with that i don't even know how he would counter, it's basically a swordswoman version of Almighty, Kenbu isn't saving him here.
 
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From her fgo profile:
Heavenly Eye is said to be the power to achieve one's goals. It's an act of resolve to do something, then putting your entire body and soul into achieving it. One could say that it's an act of putting your entire self and existence into your gaze, and projecting it towards your goal.
In Musashi's case, Heavenly Eye is used only to wield her blade on the spot. For example, if she decides to cut her opponent's right arm, she'll do whatever it takes to sever it. Her strike will be optimized, bending time and space toward achieving this goal.
The power to narrow down all potential options for achieving a goal into a single eventuality. It could also be described as a very special type of Mystic Eye, which narrows an infinite number of possible futures down to only one.
So she has infinite reaction speed as well? And how many times is it stated to be infinite? One singular statement doesn't mean much.
It's not precog it's fate manip once the outcome has been reached its done you can't counter fate manip with precog
Zoro could technically still counter with his predictions before she does that, and like I said above I don't think she's going to resort to haxxing as opposed to dragging it out for the fun. I really do think these two would want to test the other's skills with blades.
 
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This also. The eyes aren't precognition but rather Fate Manipulation.

If it's for thousands of standard attacks then I'm still skeptical of that, I doubt Servant's can attack you in thousands of different patterns and if they can then why is Musashi's reactions not calculated and on the profile? That's a shit ton of information she'd need to process instantly, Itachi has a similar feat and it got FTL.


Aside from that obvious issue, I think it also depends on the Servant in question. In canon what Servant's has she fought?
In pre zero, she have fought yagyuu who was infinity speed with suigetsu, she have fought every servant of shimousa
 
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So she has infinite reaction speed as well? And how many times is it stated to be infinite? One singular statement doesn't mean much.

Zoro could technically still counter with his predictions before she does that, and like I said above I don't think she's going to resort to haxxing as opposed to dragging it out for the fun. I really do think these two would want to test the other's skills with blades.
I mean she have fought yagyu when he was using suigetsu. Even before reaching her zero


 

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So she has infinite reaction speed as well? And how many times is it stated to be infinite? One singular statement doesn't mean much.

Zoro could technically still counter with his predictions before she does that, and like I said above I don't think she's going to resort to haxxing as opposed to dragging it out for the fun. I really do think these two would want to test the other's skills with blades.

Musashi's heaven's eye's shaves the infinite possibilities done to one if she wants to cut someone's hand's then their doesn't exist a future where she doesn't accomplish it
Countering fate Manipulation with precog is not possible
 
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And rez heavenly eyes have preco. It's stated in her summer form. + She was able to see the infinity possibility of ivan in lb1, it's her she see that she couldn't kill hil normaly

"At that time, the "Heavenly Eye" that were honed to the utmost limits can see through the enemies' each and every defensive actions, and demolish them."


And her eyes are stated to be a better version of instinct and mind eye
 
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I mean she have fought yagyu when he was using suigetsu. Even before reaching her zero


This is Pre Zero Musashi so there's no scaling to Suigetsu Yagyu or Infinity Sasaki. All of their bases are MHS+
Musashi's heaven's eye's shaves the infinite possibilities done to one if she wants to cut someone's hand's then their doesn't exist a future where she doesn't accomplish it
Countering fate Manipulation with precog is not possible
I think you misunderstood what I said, I never said it would counter it while it's taking effect but before Musashi gets the chance to use it. I.E, Zoro predicts what's she's about to do in advance and counters accordingly. Not that she'd cut, he predicts and then counters.
 
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This is Pre Zero Musashi so there's no scaling to Suigetsu Yagyu or Infinity Sasaki. All of their bases are MHS+

I think you misunderstood what I said, I never said it would counter it while it's taking effect but before Musashi gets the chance to use it. I.E, Zoro predicts what's she's about to do in advance and counters accordingly. Not that she'd cut, he predicts and then counters.
Pre zero musashi fought suigetsu yagyuu..... It's litteraly what i tell she enter in zero after the fight.
 
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I still want to see evidence of Musashi right off the bat using her fate hax against another swordsman instead of enjoying the fight. Hell I can remember several instances when she doesn't even use them in combat to hax her opponent's.
 

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I think you misunderstood what I said, I never said it would counter it while it's taking effect but before Musashi gets the chance to use it. I.E, Zoro predicts what's she's about to do in advance and counters accordingly. Not that she'd cut, he predicts and then counters.
This would have been a possibility if it took her some considerable amount of time to use it or if she couldn't use it in the middle of combat or if zoro could have one shotted her but considering this isn't the case I am voting Musashi
 
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This is Pre Zero Musashi so there's no scaling to Suigetsu Yagyu or Infinity Sasaki. All of their bases are MHS+

I think you misunderstood what I said, I never said it would counter it while it's taking effect but before Musashi gets the chance to use it. I.E, Zoro predicts what's she's about to do in advance and counters accordingly. Not that she'd cut, he predicts and then counters.
She had fight yagyuu ans other preco user servant who was doing that so i don't see how it would work here
 
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I still want to see evidence of Musashi right off the bat using her fate hax against another swordsman instead of enjoying the fight. Hell I can remember several instances when she doesn't even use them in combat to hax her opponent's.
Shimousa ? I mean she do that like all the time in this singularity even in summer 4. Her eyes are always active it's not a ability she can't not use when she want
 
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Yagyuu suigetsu is litteraly predict what the other do, being a step ahead above every action and counter them as he already know.
 
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Pre zero musashi fought suigetsu yagyuu..... It's litteraly what i tell she enter in zero after the fight.
Pre Musashi is MHS and 6-C and her profile makes no mention of fighting a High 6-C with infinite speed. You'd need to make a CRT for that otherwise don't use it. Not saying it's not legit but it isn't on the profile.
This would have been a possibility if it took her some considerable amount of time to use it or if she couldn't use it in the middle of combat or if zoro could have one shotted her but considering this isn't the case I am voting Musashi
What does she need to do to do so?
 
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Pre Musashi is MHS and 6-C and her profile makes no mention of fighting a High 6-C with infinite speed. You'd need to make a CRT for that otherwise don't use it. Not saying it's not legit but it isn't on the profile.

What does she need to do to do so?
It's impossible to not be legit as she unlock zero by fighting him lol, but well will make the crt later if really needed
 
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Yagyuu suigetsu is litteraly predict what the other do, being a step ahead above every action and counter them as he already know.
You keep repeating "predict", and the source says "predict". This automatically makes it inferior to Kenbunshoku.
Every example you gave is characters predicting every course of action and choosing a decision to overcome it. Zoro's Kenbunshoku bypasses all of that and foresees the final decision altogether. Again- Prediction =/= Foresight
 
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Zoro also has 3 forms of Prediction without Kenbunshoku Haki so with Kenbunshoku Haki he'd have 5 types all together.


Breath based Prediction (This one is ootent as fuck as it works on intimate objects.)

Trajectory based Prediction

Mental images

And 2 from Kenbunshoku, Anticipation of intent and mind reading. However apparently Servant's can't be mind read.
 
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You keep repeating "predict", and the source says "predict". This automatically makes it inferior to Kenbunshoku.
Every example you gave is characters predicting every course of action and choosing a decision to overcome it. Zoro's Kenbunshoku bypasses all of that and foresees the final decision altogether. Again- Prediction =/= Foresight
He predict them by foreshight it i mean you want hil to predict how? Bruh

And i have tell predict because he have tell predict lol

He litteraly see in the futur every possible outcome that can happen and counter every of them what you even try to tell? Zoro doesn't bypass it and zoro kenbunshoku can't bypass it as it will be the only one existing

Using this technique, he is capable of accounting for all possible outcomes of a situation, and staying a step ahead of all of them. It is so absolute that Musashi had to create a completely new possibility to manage to bypass this technique.


+ Already tell that she have fight people that see direvtly the futur. And like rez tell he wouldn't be able to do anything of she use her eyes as if she use the only possibility where she win, it mean that it will be the only thing it happen.

"Musashi's heaven's eye's shaves the infinite possibilities done to one if she wants to cut someone's hand's then their doesn't exist a future where she doesn't accomplish it
Countering fate Manipulation with precog is not possible"
 
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I think you misunderstood what I said, I never said it would counter it while it's taking effect but before Musashi gets the chance to use it. I.E, Zoro predicts what's she's about to do in advance and counters accordingly. Not that she'd cut, he predicts and then counters.
I have tell predict because Gin say zoro will predict what she do when she have fight someone who do that too
 
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And again- We're using pre-Zero Musashi. Saying "she can unlock it while fighting Zoro" would mean she could've done so at any instance of Shimousa when her life was threatened. Until there's a CRT that's accepted about that, it won't apply.

This seems like a one hit KO on both ends. If her eye shaves down all possibility to land one killing blow, she wins. But because of Zoro's Kenbunshoku, he'd just foresee that next move and either prevent or counter it. She never fought a precognition user like Zoro is the issue. Yagyu is PREDICTION, and it's far more different.
The way I see it, it's a Ryuma situation. The fight wouldn't last long and both would take eachother seriously to the point where they'd want to win via first blood. And considering Zoro has several of methods of slowing her down (flying slashes, AOE with Tatsu and BR Tatsu, and Goken), she'll need a miracle to overcome his versatility and get close enough to land her hit. Hell, there's an instance vs Ivan where she literally CAN'T use her eye's ability because he's capable of smacking her away before she gets a good cut in.

My vote stays for Zoro. Far more versatile, Precognition that bypasses her acausality's type, and overall higher buffs and amps during combat.
 
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I have tell predict because Gin say zoro will predict what she do when she have fight someone who do that too
Because the one she fought predicts thousands of POSSIBILITIES while Zoro predicts only the one definitive one based on her final decision. Kenbunshoku is just far superior to what she's taken on before.
 
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I have tell predict because Gin say zoro will predict what she do when she have fight someone who do that too
Not all Prediction is born the same, that's the point. Yagyu might be able to predict further ahead but that doesn't automatically make it better, it's just better in that regard. In terms of versatility Zoro's Prediction takes the cake as his works on inanimate / non living objects. Rocks, trees, the air itself have something called "Breath." that Zoro uses to predict.


I wouldn't say Zoro's is better for that reason alone it's just an advantage for Zoro's Prediction. See what I mean? Your focusing on one thing when there are several.
 
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Because the one she fought predicts thousands of POSSIBILITIES while Zoro predicts only the one definitive one based on her final decision. Kenbunshoku is just far superior to what she's taken on before.
Bruh the thousand possibility is coming from her technique not her opponent, you can't even read scan correctly?

You should really learn to read quote i send and scan i send, yagyuu don't predict possibility, he predict outcome, like 10 time i send the quote seriously.
He predict every final decision she can do for every action that can happen in the fight. When zoro can only predict one final decision by action. He can only see the final decision that by ex she atk left for one atk.
And even that do nothing because her fate manip make that the final decision is choose by her and he can't change it because fate.

And one more time seeing on final decision is not better than seeing all possible final decision or just all final decision in all the combat
 
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And again- We're using pre-Zero Musashi. Saying "she can unlock it while fighting Zoro" would mean she could've done so at any instance of Shimousa when her life was threatened. Until there's a CRT that's accepted about that, it won't apply.

This seems like a one hit KO on both ends. If her eye shaves down all possibility to land one killing blow, she wins. But because of Zoro's Kenbunshoku, he'd just foresee that next move and either prevent or counter it. She never fought a precognition user like Zoro is the issue. Yagyu is PREDICTION, and it's far more different.
The way I see it, it's a Ryuma situation. The fight wouldn't last long and both would take eachother seriously to the point where they'd want to win via first blood. And considering Zoro has several of methods of slowing her down (flying slashes, AOE with Tatsu and BR Tatsu, and Goken), she'll need a miracle to overcome his versatility and get close enough to land her hit. Hell, there's an instance vs Ivan where she literally CAN'T use her eye's ability because he's capable of smacking her away before she gets a good cut in.

My vote stays for Zoro. Far more versatile, Precognition that bypasses her acausality's type, and overall higher buffs and amps during combat.
Where i have say that she can unlock it when facing zoro? Fuck pls don't invent thing.


Yagyu is not prediction where do you see the word prediction on his ability or feat?

+ She have fought too on even before being that can straight see the direct futur already tell.

And a miracle> basic ability of heaven eyes creating miracle or choosing the possibility where she not dying.

(Performs a beam slash that sever fates, allowing her achieve her desired outcome and ward off untimely deaths, karmic damage, curses, and tragedies).

For ivan itls like because he is a a tier 1 guy that she can't damage? what even this argument, you compare her not being able to damage a tier 1 guy to fightings a guy with same tier...
 
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And one more time seeing on final decision is not better than seeing all possible final decision or just all final decision in all the combat.

That's not necessarily true either tbh. Like I said above it really depends on the context of the Prediction and what kind of feats it has (bypassing resistance to Prediction, working on FTE opponents, working on intimate objects, working on the unpredictable etc.) it isn't just "how far you can see." otherwise Elrad from Warhammer would solo skill stomp everyone.
 
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And one more time seeing on final decision is not better than seeing all possible final decision or just all final decision in all the combat
It technically is. Foreseeing all possibilities to figure 1 is inferior to bypassing all "possible" ones and just foreseeing the final decision.

How does precog help against fate manip?
It shouldn't, but her fate manip is weird because it leads to her cutting you through every possibility of NOT cutting you. But if her mystic eye leads her to land that definitive blow on Zoro, then Zoro would foresee that attack.
And one more time seeing on final decision is not better than seeing all possible final decision or just all final decision in all the combat.

That's not necessarily true either tbh. Like I said above it really depends on the context of the Prediction and what kind of feats it has (bypassing resistance to Prediction, working on FTE opponents, working on intimate objects, working on the unpredictable etc.) it isn't just "how far you can see." otherwise Elrad from Warhammer would solo skill stomp everyone.
I already used that example earlier with Kaido, that the one way that anyone bypassed Kenbunshoku was by being FTE, like Kaido was to Luffy. Because even though Luffy's precog was on point, Kaido was too fast for him to react.
In this case they've got equal speed and he's the only one with speed boosting attacks. The issue lies in the fact that there's no precognition user that she fought that'd scale off Zoro's Kenbunshoku, which makes this more complicated than it should be.
 
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It technically is. Foreseeing all possibilities to figure 1 is inferior to bypassing all "possible" ones and just foreseeing the final decision.
It's not? Foreseeing all possible is not just about figure 1 is to account and predict everything he could, if you see just the final decision, it can be changed if the person know you see it, if you have see all possibilities even if he change the final decision, he can't do a thing because it was already a possibility that the guy see
 
It shouldn't, but her fate manip is weird because it leads to her cutting you through every possibility of NOT cutting you. But if her mystic eye leads her to land that definitive blow on Zoro, then Zoro would foresee that attack.
So why is everyone arguing who has better precog. Zoro seeing him getting cut is not going to change the fact that he will be cut since the possibility of him not getting cut is already cut down
 
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Zoro's normal predictions have already worked on those who are FTE to him and or faster (Kaku with Soru and his Zoan Amps.)


I still also disagree with Yagyu's and Sasaki's Predictions being inherently better than Zoro's whenever moss head has prediction feats they don't so it goes both ways.
 
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Itls litteraly why kenbunshoku can be counter by another kenbonshoku as they just see other final decision and change it when, you can't counter musashi. Because even if you change she already have see this change
 
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It shouldn't, but her fate manip is weird because it leads to her cutting you through every possibility of NOT cutting you. But if her mystic eye leads her to land that definitive blow on Zoro, then Zoro would foresee that attack.
No, her fate manip is cutting every possibility of her not doing what she want. Why you change thing?

Like i tell even if zoro foresse that atk he can't change a thing because it doesn't exist a possibility to change, he locked to that one fate
 
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By the way, heathens there are like 50+ Swordsmen in the Nasuverse that you could use against Zoro but for some reason people only ever use Musashi and Sasaki.
 
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So why is everyone arguing who has better precog. Zoro seeing him getting cut is not going to change the fact that he will be cut since the possibility of him not getting cut is already cut down
That's assuming she has knowledge of him having foresight and taking that into account at all?? If her mystic eye was that good she wouldn't need Ritsuka's help to bypass Sasaki during the infinity/Zero clash and instead just cut beyond his infinity altogether.
 
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Musashi never fought anybody who can see the future to Zoro's degree of accuracy, that's why her shaving down fate to the last chance where she CAN cut him, he'd continue foreseeing that chance in every outcome. (This feels like another clash that won't end lmao)
 
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It technically is. Foreseeing all possibilities to figure 1 is inferior to bypassing all "possible" ones and just foreseeing the final decision.


It shouldn't, but her fate manip is weird because it leads to her cutting you through every possibility of NOT cutting you. But if her mystic eye leads her to land that definitive blow on Zoro, then Zoro would foresee that attack.

I already used that example earlier with Kaido, that the one way that anyone bypassed Kenbunshoku was by being FTE, like Kaido was to Luffy. Because even though Luffy's precog was on point, Kaido was too fast for him to react.
In this case they've got equal speed and he's the only one with speed boosting attacks. The issue lies in the fact that there's no precognition user that she fought that'd scale off Zoro's Kenbunshoku, which makes this more complicated than it should be.
Every servant can boost their stat it's on servant physiology and she like always fight people several quicker than her.

She have fight people that do better, scathach see the direct futur and see like litteraly all your life. Yagyuu can see and counter every outcome of a fight.



How can One piece ca'n wank so much a simple ability that just see futur for like 'ot even few sec? It's basically what do instinct rank A bruh
 
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1 for Zoro!
Though, some people have a misconception about getting past Gae Bolg/causality changing attacks with just Precog. It's also stated, even on servant profiles, that their Luck stat is what really lets them overcome fate/causality based attacks like Gae Bolg. B rank Luck or higher is needed.

Though, again, if Zoro were a Saber Servant, I'm sure he'd have a high Luck stat since it's how he won over that shop keep and got Yubashiri. His luck over the curse.
Zoro has supernatural luck btw... Via resisting Curse Manipulation
Resistance to Curse Manipulation (He was able to overcome a cursed sword only by using his own luck, the same cursed sword that bring bad things and mysterious deaths to the people who carry it)
 
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