Sans a few abilities possibly?

[ShionAH]

Sans seems to have a few small abilities that is not on his profile.

1- Possible Dimensional Travel explained here

2- Air Manipulation, created a self-sustaining tornado in his room

3- Invulnerability Negation, His attacks ignore Frisk's INV

Law Manipulation? I am just gonna try my chances lol

So undertale fight game mechanics are canon we all know this right? Thats the reason why asgore was able to dodge undyne but couldn't dodge frisk because of the fact that human vs monster mechanics are different than monster vs monster mechanics. This can be also proven by the fact that papyrus preparing his attacks while its our turn showing that they do have to obey the law, Undyne who hates us should have attacked us even when its our turn right? Theres no reason for undyne not to do it but she doesn't why? Because she can't, its the universe of undertales law. The game mechanics can also be proven to be true when the only time turns arent used is when we are dating papyrus because its not a fight and the laws arent supposed to work in a date. This all should be enough to prove that turn based fights when monsters also don't dodge is supposed to be the laws of undertale universe. Sans obviously completely ignores this in anyway possible.

I might be just going crazy but it was worth a try lol

 

[Perequeliri993]

1- Possible Dimensional Travel explained here

As you said, is a big fat POSSIBLE, it could just be a reference. Possibly

2- Air Manipulation, created a self-sustaining tornado in his room

Agree.

3- Invulnerability Negation, His attacks ignore Frisk's INV

Is strange, really. Its not that his attacks ignore INV, is more like it doesn't even activate it whatsoever, although this likely is the best way to translate it.

Law Manipulation? I am just gonna try my chances lol

So undertale fight game mechanics are canon we all know this right? Thats the reason why asgore was able to dodge undyne but couldn't dodge frisk because of the fact that human vs monster mechanics are different than monster vs monster mechanics. This can be also proven by the fact that papyrus preparing his attacks while its our turn showing that they do have to obey the law, Undyne who hates us should have attacked us even when its our turn right? Theres no reason for undyne not to do it but she doesn't why? Because she can't, its the universe of undertales law. The game mechanics can also be proven to be true when the only time turns arent used is when we are dating papyrus because its not a fight and the laws arent supposed to work in a date. This all should be enough to prove that turn based fights when monsters also don't dodge is supposed to be the laws of undertale universe. Sans obviously completely ignores this in anyway possible.

I might be just going crazy but it was worth a try lol

It would be limited law manipulation. He has only ever shown capable of doing this two times, three at most, both in his fight. First off, him starting his turn attacking instead of you. Second off, Him attacking you during your turn. And third, him being able to dodge Frisk's attacks, Although this could just be that fast enough characters can dodge them, and he just is the only capable one of doing it.

 

[ShionAH]

It would be limited law manipulation. He has only ever shown capable of doing this two times, three at most, both in his fight. First off, him starting his turn attacking instead of you. Second off, Him attacking you during your turn. And third, him being able to dodge Frisk's attacks, Although this could just be that fast enough characters can dodge them, and he just is the only capable one of doing it.

Asgore can dodge too and Undyne as well but it is unknown why they don't do it.

Is strange, really. Its not that his attacks ignore INV, is more like it doesn't even activate it whatsoever, although this likely is the best way to translate it.

Yeah well but I cannot see what ability it would be. Do you agree?

It would be limited law manipulation. He has only ever shown capable of doing this two times, three at most, both in his fight. First off, him starting his turn attacking instead of you. Second off, Him attacking you during your turn. And third, him being able to dodge Frisk's attacks, Although this could just be that fast enough characters can dodge them, and he just is the only capable one of doing it.

Yeah I know it will be limited but it will still be law manipulation. Btw he uses it 4 times with his "final move" where he doesnt attack and takes his turn

 

[Perequeliri993]

Yeah well but I cannot see what ability it would be. Do you agree?

Yes

 

[ShionAH]

Yes

1 agree then its a nice start

 

[Winter]

Agree on air manipulation

Dimension travel seems much more of an assumption. Like him having a puzzle that appears in another game is merely a reference. Feels too weak evidence for it to warrant dimensional travel

I don’t remember Frisk having invulnerability. Sans deals very low damage (which even his check states he can only deal one damage, which would be a lot lower if it weren’t for those game mechanics), and the rest of the damage comes from Karma.


The whole turn thing is mostly game mechanics shown in enemy fights. Although most characters acknowledge it, it’s a game mechanic none the less. Many monster encounters show being able of attacking first and it’s pretty normal. Undyne can ambush you with spears in her chase encounters, monsters fight each other normally, various Sans examples shown above, Asgore can destroy the Mercy Button before they fight, Omega Flowey and Frisk actually fight in a non-turn based system, etc


The last encounter where Sans tries to turn lock The Player and the latter pushes the box, is the best example I can think of for Law Manipulation. Neutral for that


Dimensional Travel: Disagree
Air Manipulation: Agree
Invulnerability: Neutral, leaning towards Disagree
Law Manipulation: Neutral, I really don’t know

 

[ShionAH]

I don’t remember Frisk having invulnerability. Sans deals very low damage (which even his check states he can only deal one damage, which would be a lot lower if it weren’t for those game mechanics), and the rest of the damage comes from Karma.

I think you forget the game lol. Basically in other fights if you take a damage you get invulnerability for a few seconds (Your soul flashes) sans flat out doesn't activate it and ignores it since he does damage per frame.

The whole turn thing is mostly game mechanics shown in enemy fights. Although most characters acknowledge it, it’s a game mechanic none the less. Many monster encounters show being able of attacking first and it’s pretty normal. Undyne can ambush you with spears in her chase encounters, monsters fight each other normally, various Sans examples shown above, Asgore can destroy the Mercy Button before they fight, Omega Flowey and Frisk actually fight in a non-turn based system, etc

These prove that the game mechanics are laws actually. Undynes case is too different since its not a fight but literal a flat out attack. Asgore is literally the monster king and is supposed to be the strongest monster and I am pretty sure the mercy button comes back up after the fight showing that was just a metaphor for "No mercy". Omega flowey has 6 souls and he wouldnt even fit the fight screen lol he also changed the entire law and the UT game to himself. So it makes sense but sans was able to do it in a different way that no other monster was able to do. Idk I feel like sans attacking through the menu and literally breaking the game and actually winning against the player if he was not so lazy and literally talking to you in your texts PLUS killing you when you spare him with a UNDODGEABLE attack

The last encounter where Sans tries to turn lock The Player and the latter pushes the box, is the best example I can think of for Law Manipulation. Neutral for that

Yeah that is enough IMO

Dimensional Travel: Disagree

okay

Air Manipulation: Agree

nice

Invulnerability: Neutral, leaning towards Disagree

: ( (

Law Manipulation: Neutral, I really don’t know

Sure

 

[Winter]

I think you forget the game lol. Basically in other fights if you take a damage you get invulnerability for a few seconds (Your soul flashes) sans flat out doesn't activate it and ignores it since he does damage per frame.

I mean, that’s what I said. Sans does damage per frame or some bs like that. Suppose I can agree

These prove that the game mechanics are laws actually. Undynes case is too different since its not a fight but literal a flat out attack. Asgore is literally the monster king and is supposed to be the strongest monster and I am pretty sure the mercy button comes back up after the fight showing that was just a metaphor for "No mercy". Omega flowey has 6 souls and he wouldnt even fit the fight screen lol he also changed the entire law and the UT game to himself. So it makes sense but sans was able to do it in a different way that no other monster was able to do. Idk I feel like sans attacking through the menu and literally breaking the game and actually winning against the player if he was not so lazy and literally talking to you in your texts PLUS killing you when you spare him with a UNDODGEABLE attack

Yea, when Undyne hits you, it still brings you into a fight. It’s not like the monsters hit you a little and say “Alright, your turn.” Like most of the bosses ignore this.

Asgore being king of the monsters doesn’t mean anything towards destroying a button. It isn’t a metaphor, the button literally got destroyed and pieced together. What I mean by this is that Asgore can still attack first. Sans does this and he’s the weakest monster in the Underground. They aren’t necessarily bound by turns, those are game mechanics that apply to the player mostly. Undodgable attacks don’t really mean anything. Not all are meant to be dodgeable.

Omega Flowey acknowledges the turn system like Sans and can abuse the Player with this given his soul power. None of the other monsters acknowledge this and can actively fight without turns (Examples include Undyne vs Asgore, Undyne vs Papyrus, and Toriel attacking Asgore in the middle of a fight). Monsters that do know, can f with the player this way.

Yeah that is enough IMO

The reason Sans didn’t let the Player have his turn is because he never ended his own turn. It’s not like he actively bent the games laws to make him be incapable of having a turn. Sans is a special case, as he’s the only monster who actively knows the game mechanics exist, so he’s able to abuse the turn system for the Player. The Player could only attack because they pushed the box towards the button and could continuously command attacks on their own. Same as the Omega Flowey example, The Player can attack as long as the button is interactable with

TLDR, the turn based system is only something the Player sees because they actively view the game as a game and are playing it. Monsters and such that acknowledge it abuse how the player interacts with the world. Flowey straight up removed it from the game, and made him only capable of fighting without turns and such in his view.


Agree with everything else, Disagree on Law Manipulation

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I agree with Air Manipulation.
Though we don't know how he does it, and he doesn't use it in his fight, so..

 

[ShionAH]

I agree with Air Manipulation.
Though we don't know how he does it, and he doesn't use it in his fight, so..

Its not combat acciplbe (I cant spell the word)

I mean, that’s what I said. Sans does damage per frame or some bs like that. Suppose I can agree

Thats dura neg its different

Yea, when Undyne hits you, it still brings you into a fight. It’s not like the monsters hit you a little and say “Alright, your turn.” Like most of the bosses ignore this.

Asgore being king of the monsters doesn’t mean anything towards destroying a button. It isn’t a metaphor, the button literally got destroyed and pieced together. What I mean by this is that Asgore can still attack first. Sans does this and he’s the weakest monster in the Underground. They aren’t necessarily bound by turns, those are game mechanics that apply to the player mostly. Undodgable attacks don’t really mean anything.

Not all are meant to be dodgeable.

Only undodgeable attacks are: Floweys first attack which didn't even work and was probably not gonna anyways, Omega flowey a being with 6 HUMAN SOULS, Asriel a being with 7 HUMAN SOULS and...sans.

Omega Flowey acknowledges the turn system like Sans and can abuse the Player with this given his soul power. None of the other monsters acknowledge this and can actively fight without turns (Examples include Undyne vs Asgore, Undyne vs Papyrus, and Toriel attacking Asgore in the middle of a fight). Monsters that do know, can f with the player this way.

The reason Sans didn’t let the Player have his turn is because he never ended his own turn. It’s not like he actively bent the games laws to make him be incapable of having a turn. Sans is a special case, as he’s the only monster who actively knows the game mechanics exist, so he’s able to abuse the turn system for the Player. The Player could only attack because they pushed the box towards the button and could continuously command attacks on their own. Same as the Omega Flowey example, The Player can attack as long as the button is interactable with

This is why I think sans need limited law manip just because of his final stand breaking the laws of undertale and making it impossible for the player which sees sans as fiction not even able to defeat him. Asgore destroyed the button sure, Omega flowey literally changes the entire history and the games files and everything. Changing the laws should be a piece of cake for asriel and flowey at that point of their powers. Undyne was not fighting you. She was literally just doing her turns and attacking so it wont qualify as actually a normal fight not debunking this.

TLDR, the turn based system is only something the Player sees because they actively view the game as a game and are playing it. Monsters and such that acknowledge it abuse how the player interacts with the world. Flowey straight up removed it from the game, and made him only capable of fighting without turns and such in his view.

Pretty sure froggits talk about the buttons and the turns, they also change the button and their names colour.

Agree with everything else, Disagree on Law Manipulation

I see. What would sans final stand be then? I feel like its a really limited law manip but..

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Its not combat acciplbe (I cant spell the word)

Applicable, and you're right, it isn't.

 

[ShionAH]

Applicable, and you're right, it isn't.

English

 

[ShionAH]

bump

 

[ShionAH]

bump

 

[Deleted member 16409]

No law manipulation.
All arguments about it are wrong.

Gonna explain a bit later.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Agreed

 

[Deleted member 16409]

At first I will say that INV isn't argument here since Torn Notebook and Glasses throw it all away.

Then, dimensional travelling isn't backed up by anything actually valuable.

Also to your notice, Asgore fought against 2-B humans and survived. He would simply die if he were staying in 1 place.

Attacking in your move isn't anything special, for example Undyne said that she gave us that spear saying that she want a fair fight even in Undying form.

Asgore won't dodge and attack you in your move since he is greatly suppressed by his depression.

Also, also Flowey attacks in your move thought. In the very end and so does everyone there. So everyone are law manipulators???

 

[Deleted member 16409]

By the way, Sans can't kill full DT Frisk as it was shown in game

 

[ShionAH]

By the way, Sans can't kill full DT Frisk as it was shown in game

When

At first I will say that INV isn't argument here since Torn Notebook and Glasses throw it all away.

How?

Then, dimensional travelling isn't backed up by anything actually valuable.

Okay.

Also to your notice, Asgore fought against 2-B humans and survived. He would simply die if he were staying in 1 place.

We have no idea how it worked. Maybe asgore in his prime was extremely durable.

Attacking in your move isn't anything special, for example Undyne said that she gave us that spear saying that she want a fair fight even in Undying form.

Doesn't matter since only person who attacks when its your move is sans.

Asgore won't dodge and attack you in your move since he is greatly suppressed by his depression.

Random claim that isn't backed up by anything. Why didn't he dodge in genocide then? He could have dodged and absorbed the 6 souls after realizing how strong we became.

Also, also Flowey attacks in your move thought. In the very end and so does everyone there. So everyone are law manipulators???

What? When did that happen? I don't remember flowey attacking while we were on the menu.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

When

When sans attack you in the menu. If your HP is 1, Sans can't kill you in the menu despite him trying.

How?

We have no idea how it worked. Maybe asgore in his prime was extremely durable.

Probably. Asgore deserves 8-B upgrade thread (and no one scaling to it besides Flowey and Toriel)

Doesn't matter since only person who attacks when its your move is sans.

Fair.

Random claim that isn't backed up by anything. Why didn't he dodge in genocide then? He could have dodged and absorbed the 6 souls after realizing how strong we became.

Because he wasn't ready for it? I mean, no one even told him that menace came here besides Flowey.

It's like getting killed in your house by guest and surviving war.
It's 2 different things

What? When did that happen? I don't remember flowey attacking while we were on the menu.

Well, that's the thing.
It's just to say that Undertale fight laws isn't all powerful and can be screwed even by Alphys since it really doesn't matter.

So, nah, disagree on law manipulation, even if its does exist so it's a possible Minor one.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Because he wasn't ready for it? I mean, no one even told him that menace came here besides Flowey.

It's like getting killed in your house by guest and surviving war.
It's 2 different things

Also Asgore fight states that Asgore feel awful and hard about it.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

No, FR make Asgore 8-B upgrade thread

I would have done it but I got no time for it

 

[ShionAH]

I will respond when I can. Right now earthquakes are happening all around my country and my life is in danger

 

[Deleted member 16409]

I will respond when I can. Right now earthquakes are happening all around my country and my life is in danger

You live in Turkey, I see.

Take care of yourself.

 

[ShionAH]

When sans attack you in the menu. If your HP is 1, Sans can't kill you in the menu despite him trying.

DT is stronger than sans bro frisk can literally endure a 2-B attack by asriel with enough DT

I don't understand

Probably. Asgore deserves 8-B upgrade thread (and no one scaling to it besides Flowey and Toriel)

Agreed

Because he wasn't ready for it? I mean, no one even told him that menace came here besides Flowey.

But he can still see that frisk literally murdered the entire underground? He knows a lot about our powers so it doesnt make sence

It's like getting killed in your house by guest and surviving war.
It's 2 different things

Expect you know who the guest is and what they are capable of

Well, that's the thing.
It's just to say that Undertale fight laws isn't all powerful and can be screwed even by Alphys since it really doesn't matter.

I never said they are all powerful but it seems like you need somekind of power to mess with them since normal monsters dont do it

So, nah, disagree on law manipulation, even if its does exist so it's a possible Minor one.

Limite Law Manipulation (Can screw and change the game mechanics which have been proven to be laws of undertale)

 

[Deleted member 16409]

DT is stronger than sans bro frisk can literally endure a 2-B attack by asriel with enough DT

Yes

I don't understand

Its meaning that Frisk still has INV
And Glasses with Notebook proves that, Sans can't even kill us here

Agreed

Create it then:troll:

But he can still see that frisk literally murdered the entire underground? He knows a lot about our powers so it doesnt make sence

Dunno, maybe he was just sitting in 1 place.

Expect you know who the guest is and what they are capable of

He wasn't aware

I never said they are all powerful but it seems like you need somekind of power to mess with them since normal monsters dont do it

Limite Law Manipulation (Can screw and change the game mechanics which have been proven to be laws of undertale)

Minor I'd say

 

[ShionAH]

Its meaning that Frisk still has INV
And Glasses with Notebook proves that, Sans can't even kill us here

Because you stay 1 HP? If frisk got hit more they would die. Frisk needs to have those INV frames when hit but sans literally ignores this and dura negs as well

Create it then:troll:

Sure when I get to my home instead of writing this in a car because I guess earth doesnt want me to give Ut upgrades

Dunno, maybe he was just sitting in 1 place.

Lol just sits on his throne the entire time? Kinda weird

He wasn't aware

He should be. I think it was because dodging is not IC and because game laws

Minor I'd say

Limited = Minor

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Because you stay 1 HP? If frisk got hit more they would die. Frisk needs to have those INV frames when hit but sans literally ignores this and dura negs as well

I mean, Glasses adds INV to fight

Sure when I get to my home instead of writing this in a car because I guess earth doesnt want me to give Ut upgrades

Lmao, waiting then

Lol just sits on his throne the entire time? Kinda weird

I think, you know, he is depressed hardly.

He should be. I think it was because dodging is not IC and because game laws

I don't think game laws apply on him here since he is capable of breaking buttons.

 

[ShionAH]

I mean, Glasses adds INV to fight

I didnt see that?

I don't think game laws apply on him here since he is capable of breaking buttons.

Breaking 1 Law is not same as Breaking all the Laws

 

[Deleted member 16409]

I didnt see that?

Check video again. HP drains 3 times slower than usual.

Breaking 1 Law is not same as Breaking all the Laws

ya know, laws of the game isn't even powerful to start on.
It can be interrupted even by Alphys in pacifist ending.

Also to your notice, everyone tell us their stats, and they can even hide it.

So I don't think that game laws besides stats and HP is unbreakable.

 

[ShionAH]

Check video again. HP drains 3 times slower than usual.

Damn.

ya know, laws of the game isn't even powerful to start on.
It can be interrupted even by Alphys in pacifist ending.

Also to your notice, everyone tell us their stats, and they can even hide it.

So I don't think that game laws besides stats and HP is unbreakable.

Wouldnt that still give sans limited law manipulation? He is the best at controlling it and superior to everyone else

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Wouldnt that still give sans limited law manipulation? He is the best at controlling it and superior to everyone else

I guess very limited one.
Or maybe the fact that everyone is doing with rules because they don't wanna break it, because Undyne for example said that she want a fair fight.

 

[ShionAH]

Or maybe the fact that everyone is doing with rules because they don't wanna break it, because Undyne for example said that she want a fair fight.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

nah, no cap here.

 

[ShionAH]

nah, no cap here.

, So you agree with limited law manip?

 

[Deleted member 16409]

, So you agree with limited law manip?

Even if i do, it would be extremely limited one.

 

[ShionAH]

need staff

 

[Comiphorous]

sans being incapable of killing you in the menu is for game balancing. sans' fight would be nigh impossible if the menu bones were capable of killing you.

inv negation is fine, the only way frisk can have some is a hat and weapon which gives you more frames, but sans still negates frisk's natural invulnerability.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

sans being incapable of killing you in the menu is for game balancing. sans' fight would be nigh impossible if the menu bones were capable of killing you.

Most of the times we think of it's as sudden DT buff, like in Asriel fight.

inv negation is fine, the only way frisk can have some is a hat and weapon which gives you more frames, but sans still negates frisk's natural invulnerability.

Frisk then should have "Invulnerable negation resistance" then? Via glasses and book

 

[Comiphorous]

Most of the times we think of it's as sudden DT buff, like in Asriel fight.

It definitely isn't a DT Buff because sans can easily kill you 10 seconds later when you are outside the menu, so unless you want to argue that frisk for whatever reason is only determined when they're INSIDE the menu, but instantly lose this determination outside of it, it's definitely just to make sans' fight less of a kick in the balls.