Saint Seiya Revision and "Questioning"

[Anderson2003]

Based on an old thread that never got that much attention, Seiya is considered Low 2-C with miracles for "harming" Hades (causing him pain, being oneshotted shortly after and being revealed that Seiya did NOTHING to Hades at all). But the Saints later unite forces and truly damage Hades, making him bleed, something way different than what Seiya did since it was actual damage, and no amount of 3-A countable force should be able to hurt a 2-C being, all the God Cloth Bronze Saints should be Low 2-C too.



Scans:

 

[PaChi2]

didnt seiya become 2-C for this exact thing? As the gap between low 2-C and 2-C is ridiculous so for seiya to hurt hades he would have to be 2-C?

 

[Anderson2003]

Yes, that would have to make him 2-C. But he never did any damage or actually did more than hurting Hades. A 3 year old can hurt me by biting my toe, but that wont make it bleed, hurt, etc. The united saints, however, did such feat. And Seiya couldnt possibly do so alone, as proved before. And 3-As cant hurt 2-Cs, no matter how countable they are. So, the other saints would have to be 2-C aswell.

 

[Kaltias]

I mean, having Low 2-C heartbeats isn't enough to be 2-C. Even slightly fazing Hades should be enough to be 2-C.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

First of all...

"But the Saints later unite forces and truly damage Hades, making him bleed"

That was earlier, when Hades was much, much more casual, and this was a combined attack of 5 God Saints. You can't scale to individual God Cloth Saints for the same reason you can't use the Athena Exclamation to make every Gold Saint ever Multi-Galaxy level.

And God Cloth Saints are High 3-A.

 

[Anderson2003]

"But the Saints later unite forces and truly damage Hades, making him bleed"
That was earlier, when Hades was much, much more casual, and this was a combined attack of 5 God Saints. You can't scale to individual God Cloth Saints for the same reason you can't use the Athena Exclamation to make every Gold Saint ever Multi-Galaxy level.

And God Cloth Saints are High 3-A.

First, yes, we cant use Athena Exclamation to make every Gold Saint Multi-Galaxy level, but we need to have awareness that its their united power that did such feat. If they all TOGETHER made a Multi-Galaxy level attack, they should at least be a minimum. And if having Low 2-C heartbeats isnt enough to be 2-C and that even FAZING Hades would make Seiya 2-C, then them united actually damaging him would mean they are far superior to High 3-A individually since they actually managed to hurt him while Seiya could not at his fullest power, and that goes back to what I said previously.

Also, where did you get that he was so casual? I dont remember that being mentioned or there being proof. If you could provide a scan I'd be pleased. If not, then at least could you confirm there was mention? If so, I will have to work a bit more on my answer.

EDIT: Completely offtopic, not my necessary opinion, but there are BR/Latino forums of Saint Seiya which I used to be a ghost on that got to a point where they agreed that the God Cloth saints shouldnt be too far from the ranking of the normal saints (Which was Ikki and Unrestrained Shun being the strongest Bronze saints, Shiryu and Hyoga being under them and Seiya being the oddcard that shouldnt surpass the top 2). What do you think about that?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"If they all TOGETHER made a Multi-Galaxy level attack, they should at least be a minimum"

No?

"then them united actually damaging him would mean they are far superior to High 3-A individually since they actually managed to hurt him while Seiya could not at his fullest power"

Seiya actually caused more pain to Hades than the 5 Saints combined. Hades legit commented on his pain while the 5 God Saints combined gave him the equivalent of a paper cut which stopped bleeding in a few pages.

"Also, where did you get that he was so casual? I dont remember that being mentioned or there being proof. If you could provide a scan I'd be pleased. If not, then at least could you confirm there was mention? "

I have already proved Hades was casual so many times across multiple threads, some of which go as far back as late 2015, I think. At this point it's just tiring, but seriously, re-read the fight. Anyone can realize Hades isn't trying with the Saints. Their attacks just bounce of him as he stands still, and he knocks all 5 and shatter their God Cloths with a swing of his blade.

"they agreed that the God Cloth saints shouldnt be too far from the ranking of the normal saints (Which was Ikki and Unrestrained Shun being the strongest Bronze saints, Shiryu and Hyoga being under them and Seiya being the oddcard that shouldnt surpass the top 2). What do you think about that?"

They're completely wrong. God Cloth Seiya is explicitly stated to increase his Cosmos infinitely, and should be more powerful than the Athena Exclamation (Big Bang, so mass-energy of the Observable Universe), and likely equal to the Sacrifice of the Gold Saints at least.

Also

1) Seiya at his peak 2) Ikki 3) Shun when not holding back 4) Seiya / Shiryu 5) Hyoga

 

[Anderson2003]

This has clarified my questions. Thank you. But, other than that, Ikki mentioned himself that Shun when not holding himself back should be superior to him, and when it comes to feats, we have a Unrestrained Shun easily beating Sorento when he wished to do so.

Can we continue debating for a while about other subjects? I have much more to question and think about this verse I once called my favorite.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I can see Unrestrained Shun being stronger. Although I often hear people theorizing that this is because he is Hades' host.

 

[Anderson2003]

I can see Unrestrained Shun being stronger. Although I often hear people theorizing that this is because he is Hades' host.

Virgo Shaka said that he has the highest cosmo and will be the next Virgo saint (which basically means he has the higher power level in Saint Seiya terms).

Anyways, some things just came over my head..

1. Gold Saints. Who is the strongest of them/who would win in a direct conflict? Mostly about Virgo Shaka, Gemini Saga, Libra Dohko and Aries Shion, since they should be the 4 strongest. I've seen arguments for all sides and was a Saga supporter myself due to his feats and power surprising and making all saints fear him equally, and even while holding back and weakened, still had incredible amounts of power (during the Hades-Sanctuary Saga).

2. Who would be the strongest Marine? The answer to me is pretty onesided since I dont think any other marine has such good feats as Sorento, who scared and was going to kill Kanon and managed to survive a Nebula Storm from Shun (which may or may not be to his own will, have seen some argue that Shun didnt kill him by choice).

I think thats it for now. Will think of more to think and argue about.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"Virgo Shaka said that he has the highest cosmo and will be the next Virgo saint"

The Virgo Saints have the highest storage of Cosmos to make use of, but that is often due to meditation and removal of senses. They don't have the greatest power in individual attacks.

"Who is the strongest of them/who would win in a direct conflict? Mostly about Virgo Shaka, Gemini Saga, Libra Dohko and Aries Shion, since they should be the 4 strongest"

Aiolos is the strongest.

Strongest Marine is Sorento.

 

[Anderson2003]

The Virgo Saints have the highest storage of Cosmos to make use of, but that is often due to meditation and removal of senses. They don't have the greatest power in individual attacks.

Aiolos is the strongest.

Strongest Marine is Sorento.

Fair point, but considering feats and statements, I'll take Ikki's vote on account.

From what I remember, wasnt Aiolos chosen for being good, smart and determined and NOT by his power? I know there is the statement that Aiolos' power surpasses that of the strong Gold Saints, but I never found a source for that and it could still be taken with many meanings. I'd say he is one of the only ones that shouldnt be considered the strongest.

Why do you consider him so high?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I consider Aiolos to be the strongest because of Episode G. He is stated to be the strongest by Mu, Shaka, Shura, the narrator twice in the guidebook.

Oh, also this:

https://youtu.be/sOfckY6J95s?t=475

 

[Anderson2003]

I consider Aiolos to be the strongest because of Episode G. He is stated to be the strongest by Mu, Shaka, Shura, the narrator twice in the guidebook.
Oh, also this:

https://youtu.be/sOfckY6J95s?t=475

Isnt that from the Hades Saga ANIME DVD? And is Episode G truly canon to the manga? I follow these "canon" organizations:

http://pt-br.saintseiya.wikia.com/wiki/C%C3%A2none_de_Saint_Seiya

Official Canon would be Manga > Hypermyth > ND.

Also, arent there inconsistencies regarding Cronus/Chronos which should be the same? Its weird, really. Also, the thing that is DEFINITELY non canon yet is taken as so(?) here on the wikia is the Heaven Prologue movie. Also, doesnt it contradict ND through what happens at the end of the movie? I dont take neither of them as canon, do you?

EDIT: Also, Appolo being mentioned doesnt mean much since his existence in the canon verse wouldnt mean that said events truly happened. Like DBZ filler.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Anderson

No, Episode G is 100% canon to the original manga. Assassin is a direct sequel to Next Dimension.

Cronus = Titan

Chronos = Primordial God.

Heaven Overture was meant to be the canon continuation of both the manga and anime, like Dragon Ball Super continues bot the manga and DB Kai, but was scrapped.

 

[Anderson2003]

Why is Episode G canon if it wasnt done by the original author? Did it get a seal of approval or something, similar to Bardock's movie?

And even then, so was Saga, but on the original manga which I place on higher regard, as

"Between them, with the exception of Aioros, all of them thought that Saga was the next to assume the role of Pope. Other than being the strongest, Saga had a heart so pure he could be compared to a god."

following:

"It seems that the same could be said in this "era". Like expected from Gemini.. Saga was proud of being the strongest of the 12th Golden Saints."

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Shion and Dohko > Saga going by the Classic Manga as well.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Matthew_Schroeder/Saint_Seiya:_Canon_%26_Non_Cano

 

[Anderson2003]

I actually dont remember that being mentioned, but I could believe that both Dohko and Shion are above Saga and Shaka. I have no problems with it and could see it happening since both have years of experience above them and are from another generation. Until the end of ND, I can see those two becoming extremely powerful, possibly even more than what we saw in the original manga.

But Aiolos being the top 1 saint seriously seems out of place in comparison to everything else.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Saga himself calls Dohko the strongest Gold Saint, and both the Taizen and Kurumada says that Shion at peak > Saga.

Episode G explains that Saga grew into equaling Shion in power, but still says Aiolos is the strongest.

 

[Anderson2003]

If Saga grew into equaling Shion in power, then no matter how powerful Aiolos was when he was alive, he wouldnt be more powerful than Dohko and Aiolos being considered the strongest still contradicts all logic. He died against Shura, was weaker than Saga according to Saga himself when he was chosen to be Pope, was only chosen to be Pope due to his courage and other leadership factors, not strength and has NO FEATS to go with statements, unlike Saga, that has done more than any other saint until Divine Cloth.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Anderson

Episode G shows that Aiolos threw his fight against Shura. Evil Saga thinks he's the shit, he overhypes himself.

The statement comes from the Guidebook. If the Guidebook says that current Saga is equal to Shion but still says that Aiolos is the strongest (Four times in fact), then Aiolos > Saga.

Aiolos doesn't have feats?

Aiolos is stronger than the Sun God Ra

Aiolos killed Apophis in one-shot

Aiolos knocked back sealed Typhon into slumber

Aiolos' Infinity Break erases you from existence

 

[Anderson2003]

From what I've heard from you, what Episode G does best is contradict the original source. Similar to DB Minus, in that sense. and maybe thats why, according to this very wiki, its canonicity has always been discussed. Not that it ISNT canon, but I will ALWAYS take the Star Wars movies ABOVE Books, Animations, etc and take PREQUELS above others aswell, but under ORIGINAL source.

Guidebook =/= Episode G. Had similar things in Daizenshuu. 180.000 PL VJump Goku that actually referred to Kaioken. If guidebook says current Saga is equal to Shion, it doesnt mean that it goes with Aiolos being the strongest. I never read Episode G, I think thats pretty clear, but in no place during the classic series was Aiolos considered the strongest or even typically strong. Thats why he was always associated with Seiya (IMO) and was so admirable. He wasnt the strongest, he was the one with the most spirit and determination, like Seiya and Saga was similar to Ikki, a good man with a dark consequence.

Aiolos being stronger than Saga contradicts EVERY statement in Original Manga about Strongest amongst Gold Saints, and thats quite a lot. That even contradicts the main statement, that Saga was the strongest during the times where the new Pope was to be selected. And Evil Saga knew a lot about when he was in risky situations, such as against Ikki and when Seiya surpassed his Galaxian Explosion or rushed to the way to beat Saga (the name escapes me). He wasn't arrogant and "overhyped". Unless Episode G strikes again.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"From what I've heard from you, what Episode G does best is contradict the original source. Similar to DB Minus, in that sense."

That isn't a fair comparison at all. Episode G builds and expands on the world Kurumada created. And Kurumada wrote the story draft for Episode G and approves everything that is posted. It is only contradicted in your mind.

"but I will ALWAYS take the Star Wars movies ABOVE Books, Animations, etc and take PREQUELS above others aswell, but under ORIGINAL source."

Don't speak nonsense. There's Disney Canon EU and Legends Canon EU and everything is valid there.

Also, Star Wars =/= Saint Seiya. The comparison is invalid.

"If guidebook says current Saga is equal to Shion, it doesnt mean that it goes with Aiolos being the strongest."

Yes it does. It details all 12 Gold Saints. It says that Saga is equal to Shion but says Aiolos is the strongest three times (And implies a fourth time). What do you think?

Aiolos was chosen to be the Pope because he had every essential quality of a Saint. Heroism, courage, devotion to Athena, selflessness, wisdom... AND strength.

Aiolos being stronger than Saga doesn't contradict anything. An alternate version of Aiolos in Assassin even countered an Athena Exclamation fired by Saga, Shura and Deathmask by himself.

 

[Anderson2003]

Kurumade didnt write it, he supervised it (from what I read) similar to Toriyama at DB Super in general, and that doesnt stop contradictions from happening. It is not contradicted in my mind, its contradicted by its roots. Multiple statements have been changed and threw out of the window due to "expanding on Kurumada's world". Megumu Odaka did, unless I got something wrong.

That reminds me of Toriyama, since he mentions weird things that make no sense in interviews and recently, he's become no authority for his own creation due to that. "Who the heck is Tao Pai Pai?" and supervises a new source that has contradictions (Beerus killed the dinosarus that are alive, for a minor one).

Star Wars has Disney Canon EU and Legends Canon EU. Im not talking about that. Im talking about novelizations, WoG that contradicts main source, etc.

It contradicts EVERYTHING the manga actually said. They face Aiolia, but Shaka with his eyes open is above that. Shaka is "defeated", but warns about how Saga is incredibly powerful and that if he truly is the Pope, they're ******. Mu even mentions for a.. ehem.. THIRD time that Saga was the one they considered strongest. And then Dohko and Shion appear and are considered EVEN SUPERIOR.

So no. It doesnt contradict anything. Except that it contradicts at least 5 statements. If not more, considering we only got into one point of Episode G. It just makes it the more and more ridiculous that EVERY saint, EVERY single companion that knew Aioros, that knew the Saints, EVERYONE stated this and it was all bs. Even his brother, which I would deduce was extremely close and should know him well enough didnt know of this super secret power he hid? ...

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"Kurumade didnt write it, he supervised it (from what I read) similar to Toriyama at DB Super in general, and that doesnt stop contradictions from happening. It is not contradicted in my mind, its contradicted by its roots. Multiple statements have been changed and threw out of the window due to "expanding on Kurumada's world". Megumu Odaka did, unless I got something wrong."

At this point, unless you're going to read my Blog where I prove it's canon, it's pointless to argue with.

Also, it is nothing like Toriyama. The statements make sense. And basically every Gold Saint is stated to be the strongest so those are always sketchy. The reason I accept Aiolos' is that they come from sources that aren't characters, but rather narrators / guidebooks.

And stop screaming. And Aiolia in Episode G knows that his brother was the strongest.

 

[Anderson2003]

At this point, unless you're going to read my Blog where I prove it's canon, it's pointless to argue with.

Also, it is nothing like Toriyama. The statements make sense. And basically every Gold Saint is stated to be the strongest so those are always sketchy. The reason I accept Aiolos' is that they come from sources that aren't characters, but rather narrators / guidebooks.

And stop screaming. And Aiolia in Episode G knows that his brother was the strongest.

1. Yes, I did read your blog. Then I googled it to make sure. Take that as you will. Im not arguing its NONcanon. Im arguing that it shouldnt be taken over main source since that is basically saying that Goku was sent to Mars and then flew all the way to Earth. It contradicts main story. Contradicts what is set in stone and should always remain a priority.

2. Well, its also mentioned in guidebooks that every saint has the same power. No, not all Gold Saints have been considered THE strongest. Ikki has been considered the strongest saint of all due to his immortality (or similar) once, Saga has been around 4 times, Dohko and Shion have been mentioned once and thats about it until Episode G.

3. Im not screaming. Im calm and composed for now. This is being fun. And yet others truly knowing of Aiolia being so powerful would certainly at least be doubtful on why he died, who stopped him when he attempted to kill Athena and so on. That brings on a whole new set of problems.

A man once said the original source/work is like WoG. He was in ComicVine. Take that as you will aswell.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"basically saying that Goku was sent to Mars and then flew all the way to Earth"

I would rather argue with facts and not being hyperbolic. Just because you feel Aiolos being considered and shown to be the strongest in G doesn't make sense, doesn't make it wrong.

"Well, its also mentioned in guidebooks that every saint has the same power"

Not talking about this, but rather the number of Saints who are stated to be the strongest / one of the strongest.

Aiolos, Saga, Shaka, Dohko, Shion, Camus, Shura and Aiolia right out of the top of my head.

So statements like these are self-contradictory. By the feats in Episode G, Aiolos is the strongest as well.

"Andd yet others truly knowing of Aiolia being so powerful would certainly at least be doubtful on why he died, who stopped him when he attempted to kill Athena and so on"

But they do find it suspicious. Have you read G? Shura knows and admits Aiolos didn't fight back at all and barely attempted to stop himself from being hit, and everyone finds the circumstances of his death odd.

"A man once said the original source/work is like WoG. He was in ComicVine. Take that as you will aswell"

I take it is wrong.

 

[Anderson2003]

I gave you an example. Something that severely contradicts main source, is it official, canon, whatever, is still wrong or at the very least doubtful. I dont feel Aiolos being considered and shown to be the strongest in G is wrong. I feel that it goes against the original source, by the original creator, the point were if anything actually goes against it, there should be something wrong.

One of the strongest is not THE strongest. Shaka, Shion, Camus, Shura and Aioria were never stated time after time to be the best.

I did say before that I didnt read G, didnt I? All Im using is your info and I wont cheat myself and go read it now. I'll take your word for it until the end of the debate. I have a few... personal rules about that.

Still wouldnt justify the fact that if he was so powerful, even more powerful than guys that have 3-A feats and statements, wouldnt he have just saved Athena easily if that was his objective, he is so powerful he wouldnt be stopped. And then comes the catch: If he was so powerful, why would he die and put himself on such a dangerous situation, risking the life of the one he vowed to keep safe for the sake of... Wait, what even IS his reasoning behind putting Athena in peril and letting Shura almost take his life?

I take it is as wrong too, but it has a important meaning: The originalwork was obviously created by the author, what he writes there isnt in vain. He leaves things written for a reason, not to "eh, lets write this". Of course, there are exceptions, but if the author writes "Hero, you're not strong enough to beat Villain", then quite probably Hero is NOT strong enough to beat villain. If something contradicts the original source of the author, even if it is written by him, it still contradicts the point 1, which is the standpoint which cant be contradicted. Original source shouldnt be adapted to fit into new stuff, new stuff should be adapted to fit into the original source.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

You should read G. It's very good.

 

[Anderson2003]

If something contradicts the original source of the author, even if it is written by him, it still contradicts the point 1, which is the standpoint which cant be contradicted. Original source shouldnt be adapted to fit into new stuff, new stuff should be adapted to fit into the original source.

And take this DOUBLED for when we are given examples, reminded of it constantly and when it was another author, not the original one, that did such thing. For a similar case, Toriyama was supervising GT and boy, dont get me started on that.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

One of the strongest is not THE strongest. Shaka, Shion, Camus, Shura and Aioria were never stated time after time to be the best.

- Deathmask is described as the most powerful Gold Saint.

- Shaina describes that Shaka has a power close to the gods.

- Aiolia describes Shaka superior to the Gold Saints of previous Temples (Aries, Tauro, Geminis, Cancer, Leo).

- Kanon considers the cosmos of Aioros as terribly powerful.

- Shaina describes that Saga, Shura, Camus and Deathmask (the saints of the graves) are the most powerful.

- Radamanthys describes that Aiolia, Mu and Milo are the most powerful Gold Saints.

Many Saints were described as the most powerful in the manga.

 

[Anderson2003]

- Deathmask is described as the most powerful Gold Saint.

- Shaina describes that Shaka has a power close to the gods.

- Aiolia describes Shaka superior to the Gold Saints of previous Temples (Aries, Tauro, Geminis, Cancer, Leo).

- Shaina describes that Saga, Shura, Camus and Deathmask (the saints of the tombs) are the most powerful.

- Radamanthys describes that Aiolia, Mu and Milo are the most powerful Gold Saints.

Many Saints were described as the most powerful in the manga.

Deathmask lost to Shiryu, so yeah, not much to him (even though Shiryu did go "Super Saiyan" against him).

That mention follows Shaka anywhere he goes, Saga was called similar to god.

Didnt the Gold Saints not even know wtf was up with the Gemini Saint? Also, lets not forget Shaka, Mu, Aioria, Aldebaran and Milo were ALL afraid of Saga and considered him unstoppable.

Saga, Shura and Camus are among the strongest. Deathmask and (I assume you should've mentioned him but forgot) Aphrodite arent. So her claim is halfcorrect.

Well, they were the strongest ALIVE if that counts for anything. Shaka, Camus, Shura, Aldebaran, Deathmask, Aphrodite and Aiolos were all dead at that point and Kanon isnt necessarily equal to his brother Saga (there were claims to both sides, that he was inferior and equal to Saga, and considering feats, I consider Saga above him).

Yes, the validity of said claims matters little, but the fact that Saga was considered a God at least twice, was mentioned to be the most powerful Gold Saint almost 4 times, that all the other Saints were afraid of him and considered him unstoppable and so on surely adds more to HIS credit than anyone else's. However, as I mentioned before, Dohko and Shion could be seen as above him.

 

[Anderson2003]

Oh, and a translated scan, for the sake of it:

Saga: "Yes! I am a God! From this point on, I will reign above the Sanctuary and all of Earth! Yes, me, Saga!"

Miro: "Saga.."

Aldebaran: "So what Mu said was true.."

Shaka: "..." (Simply sweats and is in shock)

Aioria: "Yes..."

Mu: "Saga, you are revealing your true identity after so many years of mystery. Victory seems inevitable, no one will be capable of stopping the death of Athena. But it will not be as such, Saga... Athena's vital flame.. hasn't extinguished completely!"

I have many of these. Many that claim Saga is the strongest Gold Saint. I could post them all, if you wish, and translate them.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

I have many of these. Many that claim Saga is the strongest Gold Saint. I could post them all, if you wish, and translate them.

Aiolia wanted to go to defeat Saga, but Mu stopped him, because that was the work of the Bronze Saints and Saori.
- http://i.imgur.com/5dwFiBm.jpg
- http://i.imgur.com/nhHrAlE.jpg

Mu: Hold Aoria!.

Aioria: Why are you stopping me, Mu?.

Aioria: Everything´s clear now! we must rescue Athena and unite to take Saga down.

Mu: Were it that simple, Roshi and I would've done it long.

Mu: But this is a trial that the heavens have imposed upon Athena.

That mention follows Shaka anywhere he goes, Saga was called similar to god.

Only for his goodness, not for his power (even in the Taizen is confirmed). The power or cosmos of Saga is never described as close to a god.

This description is exclusive to Shaka and the Saint Sagittarius in Next Dimension.

- The cosmos of Sagittarius (Gestalt or Aiolos) in the arrow of the goddess, is described by Marin as close to a god.

Saga, Shura and Camus are among the strongest. Deathmask and (I assume you should've mentioned him but forgot) Aphrodite arent. So her claim is halfcorrect.

Well, they were the strongest ALIVE if that counts for anything. Shaka, Camus, Shura, Aldebaran, Deathmask, Aphrodite and Aiolos were all dead at that point and Kanon isnt necessarily equal to his brother Saga (there were claims to both sides, that he was inferior and equal to Saga, and considering feats, I consider Saga above him).

The grave of Aphro does not appear when Shaina describes the Golden Saints. Deathmask and Aphro are more powerful than Camus (who does not have absolute zero).

Ikki describes that he is equal to Saga, and Milo describes that it is almost equal to its brother. And Rada indicates that Aiolia, Milo and Mu are the most powerful of the Gold Saints (he described all the Saints Gold or the Saints that he known).

Yes, the validity of said claims matters little, but the fact that Saga was considered a God at least twice, was mentioned to be the most powerful Gold Saint almost 4 times, that all the other Saints were afraid of him and considered him unstoppable and so on surely adds more to HIS credit than anyone else's. However, as I mentioned before, Dohko and Shion could be seen as above him.

No, it is only mentioned as the strongest in three occasions (one with Deathmask, Shura and Camus). But many Saints are described as the most powerful. Shaka or Deathmask is mentioned as strong in two occasions. Dohko and Shion four occasions in official materials (twice in the manga and next dimension, and twice in Taizen and interview Tokumori). And Milo, Aiolia, Camus, Shura in one occasion.

 

[Anderson2003]

Not like Aioria would have accomplished his task, he stalemated Shaka with his eyesclosed, who is inferior to Saga (even if Shaka at his max potential could be at Saga's level).

For Saga's goodness, yes, but have at thee:


Saga is considered the hardest to face, the strongest by Milo, the strongest by the narrator, the

strongest by Ikki (while fighting Cain/Abel). Also, about feats, we have Saga easily defeating Ikki, crushstomping Seiya (even after he had his lil' protagonist shine), defeats Kanon twice (once to exile him (even though it shoudnt mean much) and later at the Hades Saga (even though it was from a great distance, Saga outmatched him in every aspect during the sequence), faced Aioria without his cloth and so on. Saga has a incredible amount of feats to match statements, something that almost no other saint that you mentioned has.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Saga isn't the strongest, he himself admits Dohko is stronger.

 

[Anderson2003]

Saga isn't the strongest, he himself admits Dohko is stronger.

Twice, if I recall. I can agree with Shion/Dohko being stronger than Saga. However, I shall never stop arguing about anyone else being stronger than him. And I do have the scan he admits Dohko being stronger but doesnt say the same to Shion, which should be his equal (I always questioned this). Lets not forget Dohko was a Gold Saint absentee for most of the current times, so I dont think he is often taken in regard with such statements.

EDIT: Shaka vs Saga has often been debated and almost everywhere I went, they put Saga agove the Man Closest to God. It would be a long debate, however.


"... But is the strongest and most durable of all saints!"

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Not like Aioria would have accomplished his task, he stalemated Shaka with his eyesclosed, who is inferior to Saga (even if Shaka at his max potential could be at Saga's level).
For Saga's goodness, yes, but have at thee:

Also, about feats, we have Saga easily defeating Ikki, crushstomping Seiya (even after he had his lil' protagonist shine), defeats Kanon twice (once to exile him (even though it shoudnt mean much) and later at the Hades Saga (even though it was from a great distance, Saga outmatched him in every aspect during the sequence), faced Aioria without his cloth and so on. Saga has a incredible amount of feats to match statements, something that almost no other saint that you mentioned has.

Aiolia is one of the most powerful Gold Saints described by Cassios and described as the most powerful by Rada (with Milo and Mu). In Saintia Sho it is mentioned that Saga and Aiolia would have a battle of a thousand days.

Seiya was seriously injured in his fight against Saga. And Shaka defeats Seiya (in perfect condition) with a finger in the Hades Arc. Kanon was not defeated, Saga only dissipated the illusion of the Temple by attacking him, as Ikki or Shun dissipated the illusion of the Temple by attacking Saga.

 

[Anderson2003]

Seiya was seriously injured in his fight against Saga. And Shaka defeats Seiya (in perfect condition) with a finger in the Hades Arc.

I'll just leave this here.

Yep. Saga without his cloth fighting Aioria.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

EDIT: Shaka vs Saga has often been debated and almost everywhere I went, they put Saga agove the Man Closest to God. It would be a long debate, however.

Saga is stronger than Shaka, but not the strongest. Read Episode G, it makes the levels so much more clear. You see stuff like Shion doing something on the level of the Athena Exclamation by himself, and Saga and Aiolos' best feats are there.