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why the golden knights is 2-c? Is there anything behind this? why the profiles of the spin-off characters is not separate?
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Saint Seiya Discussion Thread (IV)
- Thread starter TheUnshakableOne
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I asked native speakers on this long ago they told me it's about context the series brings in story that makes the word since the Kanji that are using have double meanings and can change with context. Kurumada basically saud screw being being direct. " instead I'm going to be vague asf, open ended, and ipen to interpretation. It can be whatever you want it to be."@SSJGeminiJJ
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I'm making an updated canonicity blog. G will have separate profiles after it's done. Anime will become "toeiverse" after that too
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I think it's much better, Hades for example has quotes on the EP G profile, and it's a separate line, separating the profiles like Dragon Ball would be much better than including it in a single profile.
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iits going to tak time to complete theres a lot to go over
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A topic I've been wondering about, since there seems to be some room for different interpretations based on what certain translators choose to put, or what the context may describe.
Does the lake that forms Chronos (Next Dimension) really contain the nebula of the multiverse as the wiki currently describes, or just the universe?
As we know, various translators have translated the description of the Nebulas of Chronos' body as either the "macrocosmo" or "universe" (I see the updated translations and more of them indicate the latter though).
An English/Spanish reading of "macrocosmo" on it's own could be taken to describe something greater than just their universe, or it could also just be a fancy way of describing the universe too.
In the original, it seems that Hecate says 大宇宙, which literally just means "Great Universe." This simply sounds like to just the universe.
This phrase was used in the introduction of the story and its cosmology too, when Marin explained that everything in this 大宇宙 "Great Universe" is made of atoms. A contextual usage like this seems to make it pretty straightforward that it just refers to the universe.
There was also a part where Chronos mentioned that his various nebula also could lead to a different past or future that could mean it has different universes/timelines, but that sounds like it could just mean a different era of the universe's history, and if Athena even used one of those Nebulas to just go to a past era of the universe.
Although even the best translator for Next Dimension recently said that the Nebula in Chronos body explicitly weren't made as a reference to parallel universes and simply the past/future, so it probably didn't refer to that.
Does anyone else remember any other citations of a phrase like 大宇宙 in Kurumada's work to confirm if it means just the universe like the scene with Marin and some context in the scene with Chronos and Athena indicates, or it really means the multiverse, because otherwise it seems to be the information on Chronos' page on this wiki might be a complete mistake.
whered you get the raw of the classic series at?
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I understand
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These sound like they need to be updated but it seems no one on this wiki seems to be remotely interested in any real revisions for this series.
For example, from what I understand even 2-C Hades himself doesn't really seem to be accurate information, at least from what's described on his profile.
Like I even made an extremely important topic for this series (something on the magnitude of Kaguya vs. Momoshiki or Goku vs. Beerus or Shanks vs. Mihawk) like who's the strongest Gold Saint and to upgrade Saga to that rank, no one besides only a few users who follow the series even cared unfortunately.
Well, if it's based on context, for Marin it should go without saying she was referring to the universe, and for Chronos, if even the best translator confirms no parallel universes were mentioned, and the context we can observe of how the time travel plot occurs, it seems that it's most likely it just means the universe.
SS Jap raws - Google Drive
drive.google.com
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Also as far as G/GA/Requiem goes, the Gladiators, Shura, Lost World Aiolos, and Aiolia or Saga not having AP keys for their feats there is criminal, and I also agree with the separation from profiles that cover main timeline details.
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I imagine, I see that the community here is no longer active, but I believe that in a short time you can do thatThese sound like they need to be updated but it seems no one on this wiki seems to be remotely interested in any real revisions for this series.
For example, from what I understand even 2-C Hades himself doesn't really seem to be accurate information, at least from what's described on his profile.
Like I even made an extremely important topic for this series (something on the magnitude of Kaguya vs. Momoshiki or Goku vs. Beerus or Shanks vs. Mihawk) like who's the strongest Gold Saint and to upgrade Saga to that rank, no one besides only a few users who follow the series even cared unfortunately.
Well, if it's based on context, for Marin it should go without saying she was referring to the universe, and for Chronos, if even the best translator confirms no parallel universes were mentioned, and the context we can observe of how the time travel plot occurs, it seems that it's most likely it just means the universe.
SS Jap raws - Google Drive
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Also, will cross-scaling feats be invalidated when the canonicity is revised? If it stays, I'd be interested in adding stuff like Soul of Gold references for Saga.
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exactly, it looks like my room is so messy, this after a day without tidying up, but the profiles should have more attention and separate according to each beauty of the Saint Seiya multiverse
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That's right, also the AP justifications on the Gold Saints pages really bother me..
Like for Kanon. I really can't see the coherence or point of citing some shit like "Tenma Kofuku=Galaxian Explosion" for Kanon, when it would be way better to just write how he's extremely comparable to Saga, was smacking around Underworld Judges and they had to jump him, Milo was convinced even clothless Kanon would defeat him if he fought back, etc.
Also even if G were part of the main timeline, I still find it extremely disingenuous to say the Tenma Kofuku and Photon Burst rival the Galaxian Explosion of Kanon/Saga during 1990 based off guidebook statements when they were younger, especially with Saga (and by extension Kanon)> everyone during that time.
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You could prob make a crt for it, I do agree that explanation is pretty unneeded when you could just slap, comparable to Saga for basically every stat.
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Most if not all spin-offs are considered canon here atm. Although I do think everyone here disagrees with that. And Unshakeable is working on a blog for that. The way I see it, Canonicity boils down to Classic Manga, ND, Ep 0, HoH, DW, G, GA, GR, Tlc, maybe the Sho manga, not sure tho, all as One single canon, but not the same universe for all of them. Another canon would be og Anime, SoG, Omega, Most if not all the 2-D movies, the Sho anime might be, not totally sure.
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Im.getting ready for bed but for ND. It has cross universal stuff in it which muddies the context for those Kanjis. Like there's a statement of Athena Crossing Space-Time. Not Space and time but Space-Time. Big difference because the kanji used was Space-Time as a continuum. Then another statement of Athena coming from another dimension. Those 2 together suggest universes are being involved. Then you have shiryu living a normal full life in an alternately reality for just a brief moment making it even muddier. Shaka vs Shijma was stated to have created a dimension where tenma and shun would have floated for eternity of no one saved them when they did Agyo vs Unagyo making the context around what "dimension" is even muddier there's more but you get the idea lol. There's evidence suggesting other universes are involved which drastically alters the Kanji meaning. Which early translators wouldn't have known too much until the later chapters 5 years later after them early chapters.These sound like they need to be updated but it seems no one on this wiki seems to be remotely interested in any real revisions for this series.
For example, from what I understand even 2-C Hades himself doesn't really seem to be accurate information, at least from what's described on his profile.
Like I even made an extremely important topic for this series (something on the magnitude of Kaguya vs. Momoshiki or Goku vs. Beerus or Shanks vs. Mihawk) like who's the strongest Gold Saint and to upgrade Saga to that rank, no one besides only a few users who follow the series even cared unfortunately.
Well, if it's based on context, for Marin it should go without saying she was referring to the universe, and for Chronos, if even the best translator confirms no parallel universes were mentioned, and the context we can observe of how the time travel plot occurs, it seems that it's most likely it just means the universe.
SS Jap raws - Google Drive
Also some cross scaling will ne valid.
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That's great to hear. Some of the stuff written for Kurumada's characters needs to be reexamined too along with G and Toei.
Garuda Suikyo
Suikyo is a character from the Saint Seiya Franchise, first appearing in the Saint Seiya Next Dimension Manga. Originally a training partner of Dohko and Shion, Suikyo quickly stood out among the crowd, and while he was only granted possession of the Silver Crateris Cloth, his control of Cosmos...
vsbattles.fandom.com
I mean seriously ? The guy was literally defeated by young rookie Dohko, Ikki's obviously full of shit here as he was during that story in general and can't be taken serious with these statements there's no way inexperienced rookie Dohko is at that level, or else the Gemini should be upgraded above Hades himself, since Ikki who fought Hades confirms Cain as his strongest opponent ever between friend or foe.
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Actually, I’m pretty sure Dohko only won after Suikyo fights Shion,Ikki, Ox, Cain, and gets attacked by Shjima. So I’d say it’s fair to say Suikyo was pretty tired by then, which would explain Dohkos W when shion got rocked. I think ikki even Halves suikyos power too, not sure if he recovered before the Dohko fight tho
And when considering Ikkis statement, I think it’s fair to exclude deities from the statement, since it doesn’t make sense from story or scaling perspectives. It’s def much more likely that Cain is simply stronger then the Saints, specters, and Mariners Ikki knows of, rather then Hades himself
And when considering Ikkis statement, I think it’s fair to exclude deities from the statement, since it doesn’t make sense from story or scaling perspectives. It’s def much more likely that Cain is simply stronger then the Saints, specters, and Mariners Ikki knows of, rather then Hades himself
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I don't remember any cross-universal descriptions. Well, crossing space-time is obviously just a reference or description of the context we know of her traveling to the past in the space-time continuum, it's obviously not a different timeline or universe, if the entire goal is to go to the past and change the future.
I assume you're referring to Shijima/Ox/Izo's conversation that they said she came from a different dimension., that's something of a mistranslation in the english version.
時空の彼方= far across/furthest reaches of space-time. This is consistent with the statements of her crossing space-time in reference to the time travel.
I'm not really sure what a dimension from Shaka vs. Shijima or Agyo vs. Ugyo really adds to this topic.
Well, the universe Shiryu fell into was never described as part of the 大宇宙.
Shady's comments were only a few months ago, but any rate if we want to examine more recent chapters, I decided to cross reference some english scans with the raw:
So Asclepius confirms that the distortions in space-time caused by Athena time traveling affects the 大宇宙 (Great Universe) and this is even conflated directly as 全宇宙 (entire universe) in the same chapter, and contextually since it was mentioned for this event we can further confirm it just refers to their universe, because as we saw the universe Shiryu went to was completely unaffected by all this.
So it definitely seems the most likely that 大宇宙 only describes the universe, and Chronos' body/lake only contains the universe and the information on his page and his tier as 2-A is a mistake.
This is true, but in critical situations like Suikyo was in they can still put out their max/high power (like how the Specter Trio even after using an AE were able to use another one at its full power).
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Hasty12345
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Guide book statements put PB > GE, it’s Saga himself who states Aiolia’s cosmo is equal to his own.
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Yeah, the guidebook part was meant towards Tenma Kofuku (I don't really read guidebooks and can only go off what others describe and since I saw that on Kanon's profile, I assume it must be from the guidebook because I don't remember it in the manga), but as for Aiolia that's fine for Episode G when they were younger but Kanon's profile covers 1990, so I don't think it's really reasonable to put that there since Saga/Kanon in that era were clearly >Aiolia or Shaka.
Hasty12345
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I don’t think anything contradicts Tenma Kofuku = GE in G. Unless you want to argue Aiolia’s slightly stronger due to how the fight with Iapetos went and if Aiolia’s is equal to Saga at this time and he’s stronger than Shaka, then there’s your contradiction.
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I was mainly referring to 1990 main story (Poseidon and Hades to be specific for Kanon) era Saga since I had scaling for Kanon in mind where I don't think it can be the case, but if G profiles are really being separated soon then this is definitely a worthwhile talking point for that era.
Hasty12345
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Kanon should probably be stronger than Saga
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I only remember them being called equals or roughly/near equals, although I think the narrative behind them (Saga's the older one, Kanon getting called out for copying Saga at times) could put Saga just marginally above.
Hasty12345
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Kanon got stronger post redemption.
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I don't remember when this was said in the story.
Hasty12345
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somethings don't need to be said when feats demonstrate it.
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The most notable feats I can think of is how he clowned Rhadamanthys, but that isn't anything that Saga wouldn't be capable of.
Hasty12345
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Saga couldn't even clown Shaka on his own
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I don't remember any cross-universal descriptions. Well, crossing space-time is obviously just a reference or description of the context we know of her traveling to the past in the space-time continuum, it's obviously not a different timeline or universe, if the entire goal is to go to the past and change the future.
I assume you're referring to Shijima/Ox/Izo's conversation that they said she came from a different dimension., that's something of a mistranslation in the english version.
時空の彼方= far across/furthest reaches of space-time. This is consistent with the statements of her crossing space-time in reference to the time travel.
I'm not really sure what a dimension from Shaka vs. Shijima or Agyo vs. Ugyo really adds to this topic.
Well, the universe Shiryu fell into was never described as part of the 大宇宙.
Shady's comments were only a few months ago, but any rate if we want to examine more recent chapters, I decided to cross reference some english scans with the raw:
So Asclepius confirms that the distortions in space-time caused by Athena time traveling affects the 大宇宙 (Great Universe) and this is even conflated directly as 全宇宙 (entire universe) in the same chapter, and contextually since it was mentioned for this event we can further confirm it just refers to their universe, because as we saw the universe Shiryu went to was completely unaffected by all this.
So it definitely seems the most likely that 大宇宙 only describes the universe, and Chronos' body/lake only contains the universe and the information on his page and his tier as 2-A is a mistake.
This is true, but in critical situations like Suikyo was in they can still put out their max/high power (like how the Specter Trio even after using an AE were able to use another one at its full power).
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Only because of a hax ability. If even Kanon who has that feat confirmed Rhadamanthys was a fraud who wouldn't have even beat Aiolia or Milo if it wasn't for Hades barrier, Saga would absolutely body that guy.
That was an assessment from his Byakurenge. When he started charging up his ultimate Hyakugasenran Dohko was ******** himself, and Suikyo even called that attack his maximum technique.
Hasty12345
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hax and power
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Power how, if he got blood drawn by unnamed casual attacks and he did no other notable damage in comparison, but on the other hand got completely blitzed by Diamond Dust and Another Dimension. Even Shaka thought to himself how he'll certainly die fighting them before the AE was even in consideration, and keep in mind at that point they were only attacking him individually.
In power Saga>=Kanon>>>Shaka/Aiolia/Milo>Rhadamanthys and Kanon has no feats to confirm him ever surpassing Saga.
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I’m saying there is a clear decrease in power, because the last gold cloth he tried it on, he pierced like paper, and this time, he couldn’t even scratch it. So it would make sense Dohko is performing better in this fight then the other golds.
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That’s true for his Byakurenge at the time, but the Hyakugasenran was that powerful and was shattering the Libra Cloth and Shield, which makes sense for being his ultimate maximum attack (it’s true he was fatigued, but in critical situations they can put out that power).
