Saint Seiya Discussion Thread (IV)

[StekFence]

Kid Buu is arguably >>> Buuhan in the anime

Got no clue how tbh but agreed

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

The wiki stance on WoG statements is odd imo, possibly if there is a contradiction with source material it's to be disregarded same thing with secondary canons etc.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

A detail of the 8th Sense.

Dohko explains that normal humans only discover that they have the 7th sense during death (when all senses begin to shut down from the 1st sense to the 7th sense) and the 8th sense after death.

He even clearly states that immediately after death, the 8th sense appears.
Dohko: その死の直後現れるのが阿頼耶識... エイトセンシズなのだ!!

Spoiler

The official translation is wrong, because it is really after death when the 8th sense appears and not before death (or when humans are about to die).

Spoiler

It is even interesting how this old Spanish translation (which is usually considered a bad translation) is a translation closer to what Kurumada described in the manga.

Spoiler

This could explain how the Gold Saints awakened and mastered the 8th Sense after death to transcend the laws of the Underworld.

Continuing with this:

Another feat of the Saints destroying or affecting a soul.

Shun asks Ikki to kill or attack him to smash (damage) Hades' soul in his body.
Shun: 兄さん...今だよ! ハーデスを倒すチャンスは今しかない!!
Shun: さあ 僕に構わず... 僕の体ごとハーデスの魂を打ちくだいて!!

I had never read this part in Japanese, and it is a good example to indicate that Saints can damage or destroy souls with their attacks.

It is a pity that this part has been mistranslated in an official translation.

Spoiler

---

Although in this part, Hades does say that Shun's soul had completely disappeared.
Hades: もはや瞬の魂は完全に消滅したのだ!!

This was the part I wanted to review, because many translations confuse the word spirit/mind with soul, but it clearly says soul.

So this translation is right.

Spoiler

The Crunchyroll subtitles of the anime do translate well this scene of Hades (Shun) and Ikki.

Spoiler

----------------------

I'm beginning to wonder if Kurumada will add these dialogues with the 8th sense in the Final Edition version of the manga.

Spoiler

--------------------------------

Kurumada considers the Hades Ovas (Hell and Elysium) of the anime, the best animated adaptation of one of his manga (this confirms that Kurumada doesn't know about animation), I even think I read in some forum or page that Kurumada participated in this adaptation.

So the screenwriter Koyama who worked on the z anime and it’s movies as well as saint seiya anime had this to say when asked if the saints are able to destroy the universe.

He didn’t fully understand the question I think. I added a deep L translation to be more accurate.

He seems to have misunderstood the question. Also, the answer of an animator is likely to have relevance only to anime continuity.

 

[Hasty12345]

Could you translate the Spanish anime panels?

 

[Rabbit2002]

well, seem like i have not notice the thread for a long time

 

[Hasty12345]

This man is on fire with the QnA stuff on twitter

 

[StekFence]

Why is titan Cronus 2a again?

 

[Hasty12345]

to annoy some people tbh

 

[StekFence]

to annoy some people tbh

Ye buts what the just. I didnt really get it

 

[AlexZiggy]

Old translations said he was going to wipe "all of existence" away. Naturally this would scale to the entire cosmology, which is 2-A

 

[Hasty12345]

Multiverse level+ (Immensely more powerful than the combined might of all 11 other Unsealed Titans, as well as Pontos. With nothing but a thought, while focusing most of his energy and attention in a battle with Leo Aiolia, he was capable of erasing all of Past, Present, and Future across all of existence in minutes [See Note])

makes sense to me

 

[StekFence]

K. And Zeus scales above that right?

 

[Hasty12345]

Zeus is stated the supreme god in G like 3 times, beat Cronus who beat Uranus, so unless I'm misremembering something, he should be the god tier of the verse.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Why is titan Cronus 2a again?

Because we have laziness in some revisions for this verse and it hasn't been updated in years.

Old translations said he was going to wipe "all of existence" away. Naturally this would scale to the entire cosmology, which is 2-A

An old translation that is incorrect, and Cronos only describes that it affects the Earth and Tartarus, he never indicates that it affects the whole multiverse or even the universe, and the changes in time do not destroy the world in that way, as he describes it would only bring chaos and confusion to the world because beasts from other eras would begin to appear, this could extinguish humanity.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

someone doesn't understand cosmology and terminology in the verse

Also there is other ways they can be 2-A

also the BR scan used for "All of existence" from my knowledge is supposedly and "official" translation from a "reliable" publishing studio iirc

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

someone doesn't understand cosmology and terminology in the verse

Also there is other ways they can be 2-A

also the BR scan used for "All of existence" from my knowledge is supposedly and "official" translation from a "reliable" publishing studio iirc

Which cosmology, the fact that a multiverse exists, does not mean that the character in question destroys the entire multiverse, when it only affects a limited area such as a planet. And no character in the entire franchise has ever destroyed or affected the multiverse in any way, the closest thing to this is Shaka and Shijima's confrontation where they are said to destroy and create countless universes in their fight.

It is not an official translation, it is just a fan translation made by Kurumada Legends.

Even the Japanese scan does not say that it destroys all existence.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Which cosmology, the fact that a multiverse exists, does not mean that the character in question destroys the entire multiverse, when it only affects a limited area such as a planet.

It is not an official translation, it is just a fan translation made by Kurumada Legends.

Even the Japanese scan does not say that it destroys all existence.

i should rephrase that to Cosmological temrinology*

also could you post proof its a fan translations? becuase i been told it was official but a lot of people. Im doing to mch other stuff to invest in looking into it

what does the spanish translations say of that same scene out of curosity?

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

i should rephrase that to Cosmological temrinology*

also could you post proof its a fan translations? becuase i been told it was official but a lot of people. Im doing to mch other stuff to invest in looking into it

what does the spanish translations say of that same scene out of curosity?

Understand, that's not important, because he has no 2A feat, no character in this franchise has a feat at that level, the closest thing to a description of power with multiversal reach is the description of Shaka and Shijima's confrontation where they are said to destroy and create countless universes in their fight, but even that is not 2A.

Because it is a translation published by Kurumada Legends on their site, it is not an official translation in any way.

Due to the fact that the fan translations were based on an old French translation that was published in Saint Seiya Pedia, and then everyone translated this into the language, even this is not new, even nowadays it is still done and often just translated into the language from another language easier to translate.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Understand, that's not important, because he has no 2A feat, no character in this franchise has a feat at that level, the closest thing to a description of power with multiversal reach is the description of Shaka and Shijima's confrontation where they are said to destroy and create countless universes in their fight, but even that is not 2A.

Because it is a translation published by Kurumada Legends on their site, it is not an official translation in any way.

Due to the fact that the fan translations were based on an old French translation that was published in Saint Seiya Pedia, and then everyone translated this into the language, even this is not new, even nowadays it is still done and often just translated into the language from another language easier to translate.

Can you post links or a page or something as proof? A properly cited source..

Also there is other tier 2-A feats if you chose to ognore Cronos and verse terminology

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Can you post links or a page or something as proof? A properly sited source?

Also there is other tier 2-A feats if you chose to ognore Cronos and verse terminology

The sites for reading the manga online say that the translation is from Kurumada Legends and his watermark appears in the scans.

Obras de Okada - Saint Seiya: Episode G

Status: Completo Autor Original: Masami Kurumada Roteiro/Arte: Megumu Okada Categoria(s): Ação, Aventura, Shounen, Drama Ano:...

kurumadalegends.blogspot.com

Why is this an official translation, when it is a fan translation?. Who says this is an official translation?.

What other level 2A feat, it would be interesting to discuss that.

 

[StekFence]

Also there is other tier 2-A feats if you chose to ognore Cronos and verse terminology

Really?

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Really?

Yes

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Some descriptions of the last chapter of Dark Wing.

Eito describes the cosmos of Garuda Matsuri as overwhelming even for an Underworld Magnate.

Spoiler

Eito: 天雄星ガルーダだと? バカな...
Eito: いかに冥界三巨頭とはいえ
Eito: この小宇宙はあまりに圧倒的....ッ!

Julius describes Matsuri as someone who rivals even the gods.

Spoiler

Julius: この私を楽しませてくれ
Julius: 神々に匹敵せし英雄「万能の天才」と謳われた天雄星ガルーダ...
Julius: アテナの兄である水鏡マツリよ!!
Matsuri: わかっているよ
Matsuri: この破滅の物語は...

It seems that Garuda will once again be more powerful than usual (a case similar to Suikyo).

Although I just hope that Matsuri uses Garuda techniques, not as it happened with Suikyo and Aiacos (TLC), the Garuda Flap (as it appeared in Saint Seiya) and Galactic Illusion were my favorite techniques among the Three Magnates (even if these techniques weren't the most powerful, they had an interesting design and concept), unlike Shoichiro and Julius (if in the future chapters it's confirmed to be Griffon) who I hope will have a new arsenal of more interesting techniques, maybe something related to music since Shoichiro's specialty is the piano.

It's quite likely that Dark Wing won't get any really impressive feat in destructive power for the characters (nothing on the level of what was shown in the work of kurumada, Sho and Omega), since TLC didn't have any major feat (it's even the manga with the most anti-feats in this franchise) and the artist was Shiori's assistant (who is supporting the artist of this manga), but maybe there will be some impressive hax, because it is the manga with the best erasure of existence of the franchise and a Specter can cut the cause and effect (casualty) to make an instantaneous movement.

Although the feat of destroying the Underworld with one attack (it looks like several beams of energy) is impressive within this franchise. But everything seems to indicate that Cattleya (Athena) was not responsible for this attack, and probably the real responsible was Julius, who is the one who is controlling this conflict between Hades and Athena, and probably he was the one who gave Eito the flames that erased Aiolos from existence and the knowledge of events of other universes.

Yes

What is this feat, it could be interesting to discuss it.

 

[Hasty12345]

Gōrudoseinto

 

[StekFence]

Yes

What r some examples

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

just wanna say im currently working on some massive changes coming to the 8th sense.

think of it like a completely overhaul of its resistance and abilities. and some may lose it that key altogether. possibly, maybe, perhaps lmao

Also all the information I'll use 90% of it comes from classic.

 

[StekFence]

just wanna say im currently working on some massive changes coming to the 8th sense.

think of it like a completely overhaul of its resistance and abilities. and some may lose it that key altogether. possibly, maybe, perhaps lmao

Also all the information I'll use 90% of it comes from classic.

Oh cool. If it’s in a sandbox, could I see?

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Oh cool. If it’s in a sandbox, could I see?

It's on a Google doc currently. It'll be a bit before im comfortable turning it into a crt

 

[StekFence]

It's on a Google doc currently. It'll be a bit before im comfortable turning it into a crt

K

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

K

Keyword/clue is Buddha

 

[AlexZiggy]

Keyword/clue is Buddha

Buddha about to propell SS to 1-A

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Buddha about to propell SS to 1-A

That comes later, but op abilities yes

 

[StekFence]

That comes later, but op abilities yes

Nani tf

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Also all the information I'll use 90% of it comes from classic.

In the case of the 8th Sense the information has to be 100% from the classic manga (although there is no other source of information of that sense either, because Taizen and other works like Saintia Sho, Omega, Episode.G, etc. don't add anything new about that sense) and maybe also the animated adaptation of Hades: Hell and Elysium (because Kurumada considers it the best adaptation of his manga), since in TLC the description of that sense is different.

Buddha about to propell SS to 1-A

Buddha is probably at the level of Shaka, since he also transformed into an enlightened being. Although the concept of the Buddhimos is quite interesting.

And an interesting detail is that Buddha (or a being with his appearance) appears in Fuma no Kojiro.


This being also had the power to travel in time and transcend space and time, even in one part of the story he helps Kojiro and his friends to travel to the past (4000 years into the past).

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

since in TLC the description of that sense is different.

Delusional = characterized by or holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality, rational argument, or evidence supporting the contrary.

Confirmation Bias Fallacy = confirmation bias is a systematic error in thinking that happens when processing information. This bias leads someone to accept new information that confirms anything "you" already believe to be true and minimize any contradicting evidence that proves it wrong. It happens because "we" want what "we" think is true to actually be true.

---

But anyways I do want to hear your opinions on what the differences are between the 2 so that i may debunk those later.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

But anyways I do want to hear your opinions on what the differences are between the 2 so that i may debunk those later.

It has been discussed before that TLC has many contradictions with the MO (even Kurumada contradicts it in some way with each new work or idea he brings to the franchise), because it is a manga written by a different author than Kurumada, and even the author herself says in an interview that Kurumada abandoned his participation in this manga at some point, leaving everything in the hands of Shiori, so what is shown in this story is only a personal interpretation of this author and is not a description of Kurumada.

And the main difference is that 8th Sense users are not resurrected in TLC, even Asmita explains to his friend Ahimsa (who had awakened the 8th Sense) that he cannot return to the world of the living, because he cannot grant him a new body. TLC's version of the 8th Sense is more of a release of the spirit from the cycle of reincarnation than something to transcend death, that's why no Saint or human (Sisyphus, Asmita, Ilias, Ahimsa, etc) who possessed the 8th Sense was resurrected in that manga and simply came into existence as a spirit free of the rules.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

It has been discussed before that TLC has many contradictions with the MO (even Kurumada contradicts it in some way with each new work or idea he brings to the franchise), because it is a manga written by a different author than Kurumada, and even the author herself says in an interview that Kurumada abandoned his participation in this manga at some point, leaving everything in the hands of Shiori, so what is shown in this story is only a personal interpretation of this author and is not a description of Kurumada.

i asked about the contradictions with only the 8th sense not every problem you have with it.

 

[Hasty12345]

I think a lot of the 8th sense feats in Classic are grossly exaggerated....

 

[Hasty12345]

resurrected in that manga

kind of like Shaka (the only 8th sense user to have shown any feats after death) in Classic. Resurrection is not an ability of the 8th sense and neither is low godly.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

kind of like Shaka (the only 8th sense user to have shown any feats after death) in Classic. Resurrection is not an ability of the 8th sense and neither is low godly.

Shaka and Athena resurrected after reaching that sense (even when Athena killed herself with a weapon designed to kill a god), and the very description of the 8th Sense, indicates that they transcend or overcome death with that sense (it is even explained that Buddha overcame death to become an enlightened being and we know that he awakened this sense).

Although it is possible that the regeneration of some characters in this franchise is a bit exaggerated, after analyzing and reviewing some series, I have realized that no god has any low godly regeneration feat, previously I said that Titans and other god races must have different regeneration, but now I even think that all gods in general do not have impressive regeneration. No god in any manga in the franchise has a low godly regeneration feat, where the god regenerates his body (or his avatar's body) after it was completely destroyed, even the goal of the Saints was to destroy Hades' body to stop the god's plans.

The gods can exist as spirits even if their body is destroyed and it seems that their souls are really difficult to destroy completely, but it seems that they do not have such an impressive regeneration and cannot regenerate their body after a great damage or after it was destroyed completely. And some even seem to need extra help like a strange ritual or something similar to come back and get a new body.

So only users of the 8th Sense (if we consider what is shown for Shaka and Athena, and what is described for Buddha, as a general ability for this sense), Ikki and Odysseus (with the soul of Asclepius) will retain that level of regeneration, at least as far as the manga is concerned, because the anime has some impressive feats of immortality and regeneration.