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Oh boi.. I wonder what plot Manipulation brought him back 
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Saint Seiya Discussion Thread (IV)
- Thread starter TheUnshakableOne
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private message me here on discord and i'll help when i can
my wireless high speed data ran out and i work long shifts during the weekdays so my response times maybe inconsistent.
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what's your discord tag?
Hasty12345
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blatantly false.
Aiolos stalemated an Athena Exclamation by 3 "transcendent saints" with an "incomplete 9th sense". Zeus not only was directly stated by Aiolos to have a "great 9th sense", but also awoke his dunamis which was passively erasing existence within a short range of himself. This Zeus is at-least low 2-C. Not to mention he no sold the UW pre-9th sense.......
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The Athena Exclamation is only an attack with the power of three Gold Saints, a Shura weakened by his fight with Chakravartin, a Saga who cannot maintain his physical form and the only one in good condition is Deathmask. An insignificant power for a god, only the power of the 12 Gold Saints together is superior to a god such as Athena, Hades and Poseidon, even gods like Hypnos, Thanatos and Ker are much more powerful than that, that's why Thanatos defeats the five protagonists with ease.
Also, I just mentioned that this version of Zeus has no impressive feats in the story. Although by powerscaling it is probably 2-C.
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Hasty12345
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that rivals the big bang which is low 2-C.
Nothing here changes the fact the technique itself is low 2-C.
Aiolos is not a god and he needed his incomplete 9th sense to rival the Athena Exclamation which was stated on the same panel to have power to destroy the universe. And Zeus (even in Aiolia's body) massively out scales Aiolos at that point, even Aiolos needed Athena's low 2-C to 2-C cosmo to kill Zeus with the sagi arrow.
9th sense Zues pre-dunamis also fought on par with a fully awakened adult Julian who is low 2-C via massively out scaling any gold saint (who are 3-C to low 2-C).
To say Zeus is only 5-C, even when he scales above the like of the legendary bronzes who should scale to the average gold is at least solar system....
Heck, Hyoga didn't even feel the need to use his gold cloth against a god cloth Camus (which we know requires infinite comso to activate), he only put his gauntlet iirc (ik he ended up getting help, i'M NOT CLAIMING he scales to god cloth Camus on his own, but he was confident during the confrontation).
Not to mention Zeus' dunamis should scale to literally any of the titans dunaii, in which they could create universes.
Furthermore, Shura is not an outlier as his Excalibur was compared to the sword of Hades, which we know from classic should be comparable to Zeus' lightining (which Zeus literally holds as Aiolia).
5-C is a joke.
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One problem with this is that Okada changed the description of the techniques in Assassin. Now the Athena Exclamation is not described as a technique comparable to big bang (in scale) and is only described as a technique capable of tearing the universe apart to create a small portal that the Saints used to return to the world of the living.
He even changed the description of the Galaxian Explosion in his manga, and now it is much less impressive. It is described as the technique that destroys the worlds of the galaxy.
The description of the big bang could place this technique as 3-A or 2-C. But Assassin doesn't have that description, which is why I mentioned that it was based on the character's feats in his manga. Although this version of Zeus by powerscaling is probably 2-C.
It is a version of Athena from a different universe, and some of the authors of these manga represent Athena as very weak, for example in TLC even the goddess has trouble fighting a human using a fraction of the power of a god like Hades, contrary to the version of Kurumada's universe, where Athena is described as comparable in power to these gods, she is even much more powerful than a god like Poseidon in a human body and using his armor and sacred treasures.
It is never mentioned that Poseidon was fully awakened, and a fully awakened Poseidon was defeated by Seiya, Shiryu and Hyoga, and the god further increases his power when amplified by fury, after Seiya challenged him and destroyed the Mainstay. Zeus never fights against Poseidon in Assassin, and Poseidon should be much more powerful for using his armor and sacred treasure. This version of Zeus did not control his human body 100%, he did not use his armor and sacred treasure like Poseidon in his Arc.
The Gold Cloths of the Aiolos universe in Assassin were always transformed into a God Cloth, therefore, Camus never awakened that armor with his own power and is only a Gold Saint who is wearing a higher level armor. Even Hyoga with his absolute zero attacks was fighting against Camus, and they had to combine the cosmos of Camus, Isaac and Hyoga to reach a temperature lower than absolute zero. Hyoga with God Cloth is so powerful that he reaches a temperature hundreds of times colder than absolute zero, so he is hundreds of times more powerful than Camus, Hyoga and Isaack from Assassin. The protagonists at the end of the Hades arc were far more powerful than any other version of these characters.
It only mentions that that was Zeus' best feat in this manga was 5-C, it never mentions that it was only 5-C, when powerscaling can grant him a better level than that.
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Hasty12345
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No, the Athena Exclamation is the same in all timelines, a technique comparable to the big bang comparable of destroying (or in Okada's words "tearing") the universe apart. And creating a hole through the UW defying Hades' will and escaping death is not an anti-feat.
which is frankly wrong. When Okada is non-specific, we default to the classic for clarification. Okada saying the AE can tear the universe apart is consistent with Kuru's (as well as every other description of the technique) description.
Same Hades tanked a nigh-big bang from Tenma, literally implying in the same panel Gods can easily replicate Big Bang levels of energy.
Which, we know they can from, classic as Thanatos no sold the gold cloths which tanked the combined explosion of 2 clashing AE's, and literally every other work in Saint Seiya using the "big bang" as a type of bench mark for even the weakest Gods.
Also forgetting, Athena is only inconsistent because her human incarnations are dumb af, they don't retain the knowledge of ancient Athena (Athena prior to limiting herself to human reincarnations), Saori, Sasha, Yoshino, they all need to learn how to use their abilities as Athena, hence why you can have an Athena as shown in classic reach her near full potential, as opposed to Sasha who's a bozo.
A super super weakened literally nigh-dead clothless Saga saying his technique is can destroy "worlds" is not a "downgrade".....
Zeus' sacred treasure is his lightning as explained in G, Aiolia is the wielder of such treasure, Zeus makes a note of this when he takes over Aiolia iirc, so he is using his divine weapon.
The cloth was awakened after he was amped by Aiolos. THAT DOES NOT change the fact it requires infinite cosmo to activate. Just like Athena helped Seiya, Aiolos helped Camus ( and Zeus scaling above that Aiolos via having a stronger 9th sense and having multiple statements of casually throwing infinite energy and having above statements of above infinite power is even more evidence he's above 5-C).
Which also isn't true, he did destroy what was left of the UW, a 2-C structure.
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Okada changed the description of the technique in this manga. And it only tears the universe apart, because it opens a small portal, this does not mean that the technique has the power to destroy the universe. It is an anti-fact, because tearing space-time to open a small portal is not as impressive as a power comparable to a big bang.
It's just an internal big bang by the description of the cosmos as a mini-universe inside them, which they exploit to use their attacks and burn their cosmos. Only the Athena Exclamation is described as comparable to the big bang that created the universe, and this is the Gold Saints' super attack of three Gold Saints.
Tenma never attacks with a power comparable to a big bang, he just exploded his cosmos like an internal big bang. This similar to Seiya attacking Aldebaran with an attack named as a big bang, but this does not mean that Seiya has the power of the Athena Exclamation, as this attack went on to disintegrate Shaka.
The Virgo Cloth and Shaka were completely disintegrated by the Exclamation of Athena, and the six Gold Saints did not receive a direct hit from the power of the Athena Exclamation, because Shiryu disperses that attack.
That is why I mentioned that Athena's level is different in the different universes and reincarnations of the goddess, therefore, it is impossible to obtain consistent powerscaling with Athena.
In addition, Saintia Sho is mentioned that Saori has the potential to surpass even the power of the mythological Athena.
He has the power to participate in an Athena Exclamation and was also stopping and resisting some of Aiolos' attacks.
The new description of the technique is unimpressive compared to the original description.
It was never described as a Sacred Treasure and is a weaker weapon than the Sacred Treasures of Athena, Hades and Poseidon. Zeus in the main universe probably has a Sacred Treasure on the level of the weapons used by Athena, Hades and Poseidon, even in the Taizen sketch he appears with a spear.
No, the Cloth appears in the form of God Cloth to cover Camus' body, it never transforms this armor, something that also happened with Lancelot who was even wounded and defeated on the ground when Tomoe gives him the God Cloth. Seiya is pathetic as a God Saint in this manga, because Athena transformed his armor, even weaker than a Gold Saint. Camus, Lancelot and Seiya never raised their cosmos to infinity, like Seiya and company in the Hades Arc, where they were as powerful as Hypnos and Thanatos (they are even infinitely more powerful than in the Poseidon Arc, where they fought against Poseidon with his armor and sacred treasure), and could fight Hades with their divine body, armor and sacred treasure. The God Cloth in this manga were just a gift, like Seiya wearing the Gold Cloth of Sagittarius the first time, his comos is amplified to a higher level than a Silver Saint by wearing a higher rank armor, but it was not equal in power to a true Gold Saint.
The Ninth Sense does not exist in the main universe, therefore it is impossible to define the power of this sense, by feats Aiolos even seems weaker than Seiya at the end of the Poseidon Arc.
No, it only destroys the surface of the world/planet of Aiolos and kills humanity (with the exception of Aiolos and Saga).
As I said this god's feats are not so impressive in his manga, although by powerscaling he is probably 2-C.
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Hasty12345
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Okada cannot retcon or change the concepts Kurumada writes. Kururmada is the main author of the franchise, his word holds more weight than Okada's. Okada cannot change the definition of Athena Exclamation and his statement of "tearing the universe apart" is synonymous with destroying it which si consistent with what Kurumada wrote and therefore is the better interpretation of the statement as yours is inconsistent with the classic manga written by Kurumada.
Athena Exclamation has never shown spatial manipulation in the original manga, only the Gemini Saint has that power through Another Dimension. No other Saint, not even Aiolos who's equal to Saga has showed spatial manipulation.
The Gold Saint trio only tore a hole in the boundary between life and death, which we know from classic is Yomotsu Hirasaka, because it's the power to destroy the universe concentrated on a single point. Okada cannot retcon Kurumada, we know in the original manga that the boundary between life and death is Yomotsu Hirasaka, so the Gold Saints must have tore a hole in it.
No, this is also incorrect and head canon assumptions. The 7th sense was stated multiple times to be able to unleash miracles on par with the Big Bang, Seiya does this upon awakening his 7th sense, Kurumada showed this in the classic manga when Seiya awoke his 7th sense.
The Athena Exclamation is a technique which allows Gold Saints to create Big Bangs without the need for miracles, as not all Saints can pop miracles like candy. This is shown many many times. Seiya is some kind of miracle outlier, even Aiolia, the main character of G wasn't capable of spamming miracles like candy.
No. Even in the original manga written by Kurumada who's words are more important than Okada's, God cloths require infinite cosmos to burn in-order to activate. No amount of head canon can change that. There's no practical difference between me saying Camus and Seiya were aided, and you saying they were given God Cloths. One way or another, someone burned their cosmo to infinity to awaken the cloth, where it be Aiolos, Athena or Seiya + Athena or Aiolos +Camus. Infinite cosmo was exchanged somewhere, it's written in the original manga by Kurumada and Okada cannot retcon Kurumada, Kurumada is the primary author of the series.
No that is wrong. Okada gives us a direct quantification by comparing a weak 9th sense to the Athena Exclamation which is at the level of the Big Bang. This makes sense as all gods who have presumably mastered the 9th sense (even if you say it doesn't exist in the main series it's power is still consistent with Kurumada's work) are well above this level as shown when the gold cloths survived a clash of 2 Athena Exclamations whereas Thanatos easily destroyed 5 gold cloths where the golds couldn't even destroy 3 with a couple of Surplices.
7th sense humans via miracles = incomplete 9th sense = Big Bang < mastered 9th sense < Dunamis (which is where the gods are at)
Okada's scale is consistent to Kurumada's, even believing 9th sense and dunamis don't exist in Kurumada's work (which is an opinion you're entitled too), feats of a low god like Thanatos show Okada's scaling is consistent. The 9th sense is a power creep between that between a 7th sense miracle and a low god - which Aiolos is portrayed as at the level of.
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I feel like I heard this argument before from somewhere but from someone else 
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Okada changed many descriptions from the original manga and also added new concepts. In this case he changed the description of the Athena Exclamation.
Athena created a distortion in space and time when she created the path to Olympus. Athena also teleports Seiya and company away from the Underworld at the end of the battle. This is not impressive for the power of the goddess. Shaka also has that power.
It never mentions that the technique has the power to destroy the universe or even the power of a big bang in this universe. It is only described that this technique has the power to cause a small rift that the Gold Saints used to return to the world of the living.
It is just an internal big bang because of the symbolism of the cosmos as a mini-universe. Even Aldebaran easily stops Seiya's attack described as a big bang with one hand, and Aldebaran does not have the power of an Athena Exclamation.
The Asssassin universe is its own universe and Okada has invented new concepts and changed others from the original manga.
A concept introduced in a different way in this manga, where the characters never mentioned that they raised their cosmos to infinity. We also saw how the Gold Cloth of that universe are always in the form of a God Cloth, so they don't have to raise their cosmos to awaken these armors. That's why none of them show the power of a true God Saint, or the power that Seiya and company showed at the end of the Hades Arc. Even Camus, Lancelot and Seiya in this manga are much weaker than Seiya and company at the end of the Poseidon Arc, and they are infinitely more powerful at the end of the Hades Arc than in the Poseidon Arc.
The Athena Exclamation is never described with the power of a big bang in this manga. The Virgo Cloth and Shaka were completely disintegrated by the Athena Exclamation. As I explained, Saga and company were never hit by the full power of the Athena Exclamation, because Shiryu disperses the attack.
If destroying or damaging a Gold Cloth was impressive, even Niobe destroys Taurus' Gold Cloth after killing him, and Suikyo half dead damaged Libra's Gold Cloth and a Dohko (novice) overcame the power of that attack. This does not indicate that these characters have the power of the Athena Exclamation. Also, if destroying a Gold Cloth completely is impressive, no character in Okada's work destroys five Gold Cloth like Thanatos in the original manga, so they are all weaker than this god.
The impressive thing about Thanatos' feat is that he destroyed the Gold Cloth and defeated Seiya and company with one attack, and then we saw how Hypnos was able to defeat Shun with God Cloth, so the gods were comparable to the God Saints. Hypnos and Thanatos (as two of the most powerful gods in this franchise, only surpassed by Chronos and the Olympians in their true bodies, with their armor and sacred treasures) are much more powerful than Aiolos.
The concept of the Ninth Sense was never mentioned in the original manga and Kurumada based this idea of the senses on the Eight Consciousnesses .
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Hasty12345
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No, Okada cannot change Kurumada's words. He can add to the franchise, but he cannot contradict Kurumada. Whenever there is a contradiction, we default to Kurumada as he is the original author and has more weight in the franchise compared to someone like Okada.
Okada cannot change the description of the Athena Exclamation. His explanation isn't even a contradiction, it's a flowery rephrasing of what is already established in the original manga written by Kurumada. You're intentionally taking an interpretation that suits your own head canon narrative that isn't consistent with any description of the technique in all of Saint Seiya. Your head canon contradicts the original manga where it is established the AE = Big Bang. Okada stated the AE can tear apart the universe - which means it can destroy it as that's the pretense written by Kurumada who is the orignal author. Okada cannot retcon Kurumada.
This is not relevant to anything I said. The Athena Exclamation does not have spatial manipulation. The Gold Saints broke a hole in Yomotsu Hirasaka which is the boundary between life and death. This is stated in the classic manga. We know the Gold Saints are capable of escaping there due to Deathmask. They did not break a hole in spacetime, the Athena Exclamation cannot do that.
No, there is no hint of symbolism. He created a literal Big Bang as seen in the kanji, no hint of "macrocosmo" was used as the literal kanji "uchuu" was used which is literal universe. It is also elaborated all over the franchise the 7th sense can reach the Big Bang via miracles.
Aldebaran catching it is an outlier for Aldebaran, not the 7th sense where it is established that Saints can create literal Big Bangs with miracles through the 7th sense which Seiya did when he awoken the 7th sense.
No. This is not correct. You clearly do not know what a contradiction is. The original manga establishes God Cloths require an exchange of infinite cosmo. Okada NOT MENTIONING that infinite cosmo is exchanged, is NOT a contradiction. Kurumada wrote in the original manga that infinite cosmos is required to activate a God Cloth, Okada did not say "there is no infinite cosmo" therefore you cannot establish there is a contradiction.
THE ABSENCE OF INFORMATION IS NOT A CONTRADICTION. A contradiction requires a diametrically opposed statement to be given, to conclude there are two inconsolable facts.
Furthermore, the God Cloth Saints do not have enough screen-time to support your claim "they are always in God Cloth". That is head canon. Just because we only see them in God Cloth for an unknown period of time does not support your claim. As with Shun, his cloth only changed back when he took it off.
I did not make this claim. Low 2-C is an infinitely large tier regardless, there would still be no contradiction, but let me explain this to you again. The power of the 7th sense is to allow the user to reach Big Bangs via MIRACLES. Miracles are a concept introduced in Kurumada's manga "Saint Seiya". They allow Saints to do the impossible and amp their stats. The 7th sense has the ability to allow a Saint to access the miraculous energy of the primordial Big Bang.
Yes it was, but you're intentionally inventing head canon to arrive at a faulty conclusion. The Athena Exclamation is established in the classic manga written by Kurumada that it is a technique with the power of the Big Bang.
The Virgo cloth was never destroyed, you'd have to prove Shaka can recreate his cloth, an ability he's NEVER shown to do. Among the Gold Saints, only Mu has the ability to repair cloths, this is shown in classic and G.
Yes, I am glad we agree that Okada's scaling is consistent. The incomplete 9th sense does not reach he level of the Gods, that is the realm of the Dunamis. You misunderstandthe meaning of "Aiolos is portrayed as..." a depiction isn't inherently accurate. Aiolos is merely presented as on the level of low tier Gods, I never made the claim he could beat Thanatos or Hypnos, in-fact if you read my quick scale, I literally scaled them above him.
Anyway Alonik if you wish to continue this discussion, PM me. It's cluttering up the thread.
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The problem is that Okada introduces new concepts and changes others from the original manga, because Assassin and Requiem are part of the universe created by this author. It is not even uncommon to find inconsistency between Okada's work and Kurumada's work. In this case, Okada changed the original manga description of this technique.
No, the description is completely different and much less impressive, because Okada never describes that this technique has the power of a big bang and only describes that it has the power to create a small crack in time and space. The impressive thing about the Athena Exclamation is the description of this technique in the original manga, but by losing that description it is only an energy sphere or energy beam with an unknown power.
The Athena Exclamation in the original manga destroys the space/battlefield created by Shaka with the Tenbu Horin, and also overcomes the law of that place that prohibits all attack and defense of the opponent.
In short, this technique does not have any description of its power in this manga and it has an unknown power, so it is not a feat from this manga.
It's just a symbolism for the way the characters get their special energy in this universe. Seiya has universal feats, but the description of a big bang is not one of these feats. And it is not a outlier, it is just that at that moment they are not describing a Big Bang as the Big Bang that created the universe (as if they are saying it when they describe the power of the Athena Exclamation) and they are only describing an internal explosion within their mini-universe.
Okada's work has a million contradictions with Kurumada's work, especially now that it is his own universe and the author began to write various nonsense concepts.
No, we only know that Seiya reached an infinite cosmos at that time, but it is never mentioned what level it takes to awaken a God Cloth, because Seiya could be much stronger than that level. This is similar to the Seventh Sense, not all Saints are comparable in power, even when they awaken that sense. And this explains why Seiya, Camus and Lancelot do not have the true of a God Cloth, or the power of Seiya and company in the Hades Arc.
The Gold Cloth never appeared in a different form than a God Cloth, even when the Saints dressed them for the first time they appear in the form of a God Cloth, we never saw that these armors evolved through the cosmos of their users, because they do not have the level of a God Saint and are only warriors of the level of a Gold Saint wearing higher rank armor. And this explains why Seiya, Camus and Lancelot do not have the true of a God Cloth, or the power of Seiya and company in the Hades Arc.
In short:
Seiya and company with God Cloth >>>>> Infinite >>>>> Seiya and company in their fight with Poseidon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Camus, Lancelot and Seiya in Assassin.
Yes, but Okada doesn't describe it that way on his manga.
The Virgo Cloth was completely disintegrated and Shaka's body also by the power of the Athena Exclamation. The Virgo Cloth only appears, because they are in the Underworld, and the souls appear wearing their Cloth, even Shaka's soul appears with his Cloth in Next Dimension (even when the armor was destroyed by Thanatos) and the soul of all the Gold Saints also appears with his Cloth. The Taurus Cloth also appears undamaged when traveling to the Underworld, even when Niobe destroyed this Cloth in the Taurus Temple.
You are mentioning that Camus, Lancelot and Seiya are at the level of Seiya and company at the end of the Hades Arc, when they awakened their God Cloth, even though Aiolos is stronger than Camus and Lancelot, the last one is a Gradiator who was defeated by Shura, who was never able to awaken a God Cloth. That's why I thought you said that Aiolos was stronger than Thanatos and Hypnos, when Camus, Lancelot and Aiolos are much weaker than these gods.
I am not that user.
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Hasty12345
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I've addressed all this already, and as I said:
PM me and stop cluttering the thread.
PM me and stop cluttering the thread.
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If you know that I am not that user... right.
Hasty12345
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mb, thought you changed your name.
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No, I never even agreed with various of the nonsense that user was saying, that he believed that Galaxian Explosion was not even at the level of a galaxy, even though Taizen describes this (and I showed him the scan in Japanese where they described this), or the nonsense that the Gold Saints only fight at the speed of light and the Saints cannot destroy an object at the atomic level. And the nonsense that the description of Shijima and Shaka's fight is only metaphorical, even though this is a description of Shun, who is watching the fight and Kurumada draws the galaxies, planets and stars destroyed in that fight.
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Hasty12345
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my bad for making the mistake, I hadn't seen him around and thought he changed his name.
Won't happen again
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Haluto's description of the sword's power is either hyperbole or he is simply comparing that sword to the version of Abzu (the weaker version in Koga's body) that he fought with.
Abzu is one of the most powerful gods in this franchise and Omega, a god more powerful than Athena, even Saturn mentions with surprise that the Saints were able to defeat Abzu. A sword that was destroyed by the Gold Saints is not on the level of a god like Abzu.
Abzu was only defeated by a combination of several cosmos in Koga, who had the cosmos of his five friends (more powerful than the Gold Saints), the cosmos of light and darkness in Koga's body (the cosmos of darkness is Abzu's power and the cosmos of light is Athena's power) and the cosmos of Aria's scepter (all the cosmos Mars stole from planet Earth and all the cosmos of Aria, who became a new Athena).
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Hasty12345
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Saints in Omega spammed miracles all the time though, it may not be an ouitlier for the sword, just that the Saint only did it via a miracle.
The series is literally called "Saint Seiya: the power of miracles that's above miracles" as that's virtually what "Omega" is.
The series is literally called "Saint Seiya: the power of miracles that's above miracles" as that's virtually what "Omega" is.
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I highly doubt Haruto wold gauge the power of Abzu wrong at all. but you do you man
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Finally go tmy hands on Japanese raws of Episode G
Hasty12345
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Also, Hades' hair need resistance to gravity manip as we see him upside down, but his hair is the same as if he were right side up, meaning his hair has anti-gravity properties.
Hades also needs large size type 0 for his massive appendage
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Yes, but the sword was destroyed with a power comparable to a pre-Omega (the power of three Gold Saints), not the Omega, which is described as a power comparable to the gods. Only the Omega is comparable to a god and the Super Omega is close in power to a god like Saturn.
Hasty12345
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Just mean 3 Gold Saints in Omega are stronk. Omega doesn't have to follow the scaling of classic, it's like 20-30 years in the future
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It was Shiryu, Kiki, and Fudo, the power of three Gold Saints, the power of a scale big bang (Athena Exclamation description). Shiryu was the weakest of the Legends (even Jabu was more impressive than him) and his power is not impressive for a Gold Saint, Kiki is only an average Gold Saint within his range (even Paradox was breaking through his barrier with a nameless attack), and Fudo is recognized as a powerful Gold Saint in his generation, but nothing impressive compared to Amor, Harbinger (a Taurus is elite, that's why Omega broke the balance of the universe), Ionia and Seiya who are the strongest Gold Saints. The power of these three is not comparable to a god, even in the series it is represented in this way, because they only reached the power of a pre-Omega, not the Omega which is a power comparable to a god.
Speaking of size, Hades's soul is described as a universe by Ikki. This could indicate size of type 8 for the soul of gods like Hades, Athena and Poseidon.
I get the raw from the first two Volumes of the Kurumada Final Edition (but they are not of good quality).
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Hasty12345
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So are we gonna stipulate child Pandora is physically stronger than Hades' and Aldebarens best lifting feat by a factor of 10^60?It was Shiryu, Kiki, and Fudo, the power of three Gold Saints, the power of a scale big bang (Athena Exclamation description). Shiryu was the weakest of the Legends (even Jabu was more impressive than him) and his power is not impressive for a Gold Saint, Kiki is only an average Gold Saint within his range (even Paradox was breaking through his barrier with a nameless attack), and Fudo is recognized as a powerful Gold Saint in his generation, but nothing impressive compared to Amor, Harbinger (a Taurus is elite, that's why Omega broke the balance of the universe), Ionia and Seiya who are the strongest Gold Saints. The power of these three is not comparable to a god, even in the series it is represented in this way, because they only reached the power of a pre-Omega, not the Omega which is a power comparable to a god.
Speaking of size, Hades's soul is described as a universe by Ikki. This could indicate size of type 8 for the soul of gods like Hades, Athena and Poseidon.
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Hypnos and Thanatos granted Pandora a part of their power so that she could rule the Specters.
Hasty12345
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Nothing on those panels suggest the twins gave her the ability to hold a literal universe in the palm of her hand. In-fact, it explicitly states she was given the power (metaphorically speaking) as a kind of authority over the specters.Hypnos and Thanatos granted Pandora a part of their power so that she could rule the Specters.
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They granted Pandora great power to rule over the Specters, a power greater than any Specter, so Pandora had the power to torture Radamanthys, the most powerful of the Specters.
Hasty12345
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Is there anything in the Taizen about this?
Hasty12345
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Taizen: "THIS B***H PANDORA KINDA STRONG"
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No, this is what is shown in the original manga, where Hypnos and Thanatos mention that they would grant Pandora great power to rule over the Specters, and Pandora has enough power to torture and almost kill Radamanthys (the most powerful of the Specters), even the Specters are afraid of Pandora.
Hasty12345
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ik its the original manga, I asked if it was further elaborated in the Taizen.No, this is what is shown in the original manga, where Hypnos and Thanatos mention that they would grant Pandora great power to rule over the Specters, and Pandora has enough power to torture and almost kill Radamanthys (the most powerful of the Specters), even the Specters are afraid of Pandora.
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No. It only mentions the same thing described in the manga. Hypnos and Thanatos granted her the power to rule the 108 Specters.
ハーデスの魂の現世での姉。かつては愛する家族に囲まれに普通の少女だったが、ハーデスの魂の守り番としてタナトスとヒュプノスに選ばれ、百の八冥闘士を統べる力を与えられに。
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Hasty12345
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That seems super strange to me, but oh well
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