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I dislike how we treat "edge of the universe" speed feats in calcs.
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Saint Seiya Discussion Thread (IV)
- Thread starter TheUnshakableOne
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In Origin it is implied that the god in his true body (divine body) can only be harmed by a Sacred Treasure or something with divine power.
Ker mentions that Kanon cannot harm her, something Kanon does not deny. Even when Kanon is much more powerful than Seiya, who was able to damage Thanatos' fingers, and Ikki.
Kanon needs Poseidon's Sacred Treasure (the god's trident) to hurt Ker's body, something that even surprises the goddess.
Rereading the original manga, Ikki (the most powerful of the Bronze Saints, described by Thanatos himself) could not hurt Thanatos' divine body, the attack only damages the god's armor. Only Seiya, who has Athena's blood in his armor, can hurt the god's divine body, even though he is weaker than Ikki.
--------------------------------------------
Among all the nonsense that Kurumada (still better than other authors like Okada, who never bothers to explain most of it well) is adding to the franchise, at least it can be said that the gods are getting more and more impressive.
vsbattles.fandom.com
Ker mentions that Kanon cannot harm her, something Kanon does not deny. Even when Kanon is much more powerful than Seiya, who was able to damage Thanatos' fingers, and Ikki.
--------------------------------------------
Among all the nonsense that Kurumada (still better than other authors like Okada, who never bothers to explain most of it well) is adding to the franchise, at least it can be said that the gods are getting more and more impressive.
- He introduces Chronos, the first god who has no physical form in the franchise, and who exists as an abstract concept.
- He confirms that the Gold Saints are weaker than Hypnos, Thanatos and Ker. Although the power of the 12 Gold Saints together is even greater than the power of Athena or any other god, and the Golden Ophiuchus is probably as powerful as these gods or even a little stronger.
- It is mentioned that Gold Saints cannot kill Athena, and then in the following chapters and specials it is hinted that only a Sacred Treasure can kill a god.
- He hints that only a Sacred Treasure can hurt a god in his true body.
- He confirms that the golden dagger, now named the Sword of Chrysus, is a weapon for killing gods.
- Saori was able to resurrect even after being killed by a Sacred Treasure, confirming why Athena is one of the most powerful gods in this franchise.
Longevity
Longevity is the ability to age far more slowly than any normal being, allowing the user to have a lifespan that far exceeds any human, sometimes reaching hundreds or thousands of years if not longer. Unlike characters with Immortality Type 1, beings with Longevity do still age, and thus will...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Why?.
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Hasty12345
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Ikki being strong enough for Thanatos' divine reflection (as he is a god) to not immediately reflect his attacks is a pretty huge feat
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He’s not talking to Poseidon is he?
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Hes fighting Seiya here. This is just more evidence that implies 1 god for the whole multiverse as Zeus is recaling events of fighting many other Seiya's from other worlds.
Hasty12345
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At the very least it implies the number of Zeus' that exist is less than the number of universes/timelines that exist
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Kurumada continues his work to adjust the dialogues of the original manga with the new ideas and concepts introduced in Zero, Origin, Destiny and Next Dimension.
Now Kurumada introduces the name of the Sword of Chrysus (クリューソスの剣) in the original manga.
This confirms that Kurumada will probably change Hades' dialogue in the last volume. In ND, Kurumada changed Hades' dialogue and now does not mention that the Pegasus Saint could hurt him in the past, he only says that Pegasus was his friend in a previous incarnation.
Now the Pegasus Saint is not special and is just an ordinary Saint, the only reason why Tenma and Seiya stand out is because of their strong will, not because they have a special destiny.
This explains why Asclepius (Golden Ophiuchus), who knows the future and the past, names the Pegasus Saint as a Bronze Saint with nothing special and even considers that Athena makes a mistake by changing the past to save a Bronze Saint.
Each universe has its own version of the gods, and there are several Zeus in the multiverse, probably one for each universe in the multiverse.
This scene only indicates that this version of Zeus traveled through the multiverse to destroy the humanity of the different Earths (because he is a one-dimensional racist god), where he fights against Seiya and the Saints, or that Zeus thanks to the distortion generated by the Black Core (the portal that connects the worlds) gets the memory of other versions of the character in the different worlds, as Shiryu also gets the memory of the version of Shiryu from the universe of Aiolos (Lost World).
Now Kurumada introduces the name of the Sword of Chrysus (クリューソスの剣) in the original manga.
This confirms that Kurumada will probably change Hades' dialogue in the last volume. In ND, Kurumada changed Hades' dialogue and now does not mention that the Pegasus Saint could hurt him in the past, he only says that Pegasus was his friend in a previous incarnation.
Now the Pegasus Saint is not special and is just an ordinary Saint, the only reason why Tenma and Seiya stand out is because of their strong will, not because they have a special destiny.
This explains why Asclepius (Golden Ophiuchus), who knows the future and the past, names the Pegasus Saint as a Bronze Saint with nothing special and even considers that Athena makes a mistake by changing the past to save a Bronze Saint.
No.
Each universe has its own version of the gods, and there are several Zeus in the multiverse, probably one for each universe in the multiverse.
This scene only indicates that this version of Zeus traveled through the multiverse to destroy the humanity of the different Earths (because he is a one-dimensional racist god), where he fights against Seiya and the Saints, or that Zeus thanks to the distortion generated by the Black Core (the portal that connects the worlds) gets the memory of other versions of the character in the different worlds, as Shiryu also gets the memory of the version of Shiryu from the universe of Aiolos (Lost World).
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Episode.G Requiem #15
mangacross.jp
Script in French by Cedde in Saint Seiya Pedia.
English translation by GodClothShango.
What kind of fanfic did I just read?
聖闘士星矢EPISODE.Gレクイエム 【コミックス最新6巻発売中!】 | 車田正美/岡田芽武 |試し読み・無料マンガサイトはマンガクロス
聖闘士星矢EPISODE.Gレクイエム 第16話 起点 - 黄金聖闘士たちの最大最後の闘いがついに幕を開ける！！ 全話完全オールカラーで贈る、絢爛にして凄絶なる激闘の銀河神話！！
mangacross.jp
Script in French by Cedde in Saint Seiya Pedia.
Chapitre 15 : Point de départ
Page 01
Argès : Seule la statue d’Athéna continue de s’opposer…
Argès : à la transformation forcée du Sanctuaire en Pandémonium.
Argès : Comme si elle reflétait ton propre cœur.
Pages 02-03
Argès : Mais… combien de temps encore tiendra ce Dunamis ?
Argès : En recevant le karma des humains dans ton propre corps…
Argès : Tu condamnes ta chair de déesse à la destruction.
Argès : Tu croyais en eux. Résultat : ils t’ont trahie.
Argès : Te menant ainsi au désespoir.
Argès : Le désespoir est le seul pouvoir capable de tuer Athéna.
Argès: Lève les yeux au ciel.
Page 04
Argès : Le désespoir est revenu…
Argès : pour détruire ton âme.
Saori : Ce n’est pas… possible ?
Saori : Oh non…
Saori : Cet être est à l’origine de tout.
Page 05
Saori : Une rencontre inattendue qui ne doit absolument pas être permise.
Saori : Seiya… Tu ne dois pas rencontrer le « point de départ » !
Seiya : Pourquoi ? Je ne le connais pas, ce type. Sa voix… Son air…
Seiya : Et son Cosmos… ne me disent rien.
Seiya : Alors… Pourquoi ? Pourquoi mon cœur est-il si bouleversé ?
Page 06
Seiya : Devant moi se dressent fermement…
Seiya : cette cape noire et cet éclat rouge…
Seiya : qui font trembler mon âme et mon Cosmos.
Seiya : Ce type et moi sommes reliés par le destin !!!
Page 07
Seiya : Le cadavre disparaît ?!
Seiya : Ce type est donc bel et bien libre de faire des sauts dimensionnels, même au cœur du Sanctuaire !!!
Seiya : Il disparaît ?!
Seiya : Attends !! D’où tu connais mon nom ?!
Page 08
Seiya : Il m’attaque ?!
Seiya : D’aussi loin ?!
Page 09
Seiya : Son poing…
Seiya : a ignoré la distance…
Seiya : en effectuant un saut dimensionnel ?!
Pages 10-11
Brontès : MUGEN KOUDOU (voie cramoisie (de lumière) infinie)
Seiya : Il a multiplié à l’infini…
Seiya : une seule attaque ?!
Page 12
Seiya : Qu'y a-t-il... ?
Page 13
Seiya : Qu’est-ce qui te surprend ? Tu ne peux pas te débarrasser de moi aussi facilement.
Seiya : Ça ne fait que commencer.
Seiya : Alors, qu’est-ce que tu vas me montrer ensuite ? J’ai hâte !
Brontès : Dans ce cas…
Brontès : Parlons un peu…
Seiya : Je suis pressé, je n’ai pas de temps à perdre.
Brontès : Tu veux sauver Athéna.
Page 14
Brontès : Tu dois connaître la raison qui te pousse à poursuivre le combat.
Brontès : Pourquoi les guerres saintes se sont-elles répétées, encore et encore…
Brontès : durant la longue histoire du Sanctuaire ?
Seiya : Pour empêcher toute invasion…
Seiya : Nous avons toujours versé notre sang pour protéger le monde…
Seiya : la Terre… et ses habitants !!
Brontès : Dans ce cas, pourquoi les dieux combattent-ils et versent-ils leur sang…
Brontès : pour mettre la main sur cette planète ?
Page 15
Seiya : Ils veulent tellement l’avoir qu’ils vont jusqu’à combattre pour s’en emparer !
Seiya : Parce que ce monde est magnifique et merveilleux !
Brontès : Quel orgueil.
Brontès : C’est le comble de l’arrogance de penser que cette Terre paraît magnifique aux yeux des dieux.
Brontès : Au nom de son développement, l’humanité a pollué la Terre.
Brontès : C'est une nuisance pour les dieux.
Brontès : La Terre n’est plus qu’un lieu en quarantaine à l’usage exclusif de l’humanité. Une abomination.
Page 16
Brontès : Les dieux ne sont pas intéressés par un tel endroit.
Brontès : Notre comportement et notre objectif sont opposés.
Brontès : Notre objectif est de continuer à provoquer des guerres saintes.
Seiya : Le résultat d’une guerre sainte n’a aucune importance…
Seiya : Vous désirez poursuivre une guerre éternelle… ?!
Brontès : Les dieux sont des êtres insatiables.
Brontès : Ce que les dieux veulent, ils l’obtiennent…
Brontès : peu importent les moyens.
Page 17
Seiya : Et toi, tu connais l’objectif…
Seiya : Ou plutôt… le plan des dieux ?
Brontès : Pour s’opposer aux invasions divines des guerres saintes…
Brontès : les humains ont imploré l’assistance de la déesse Athéna.
Brontès : Elle a rassemblé des gens puissants au Sanctuaire afin de combattre les dieux.
Brontès : Elle leur a donné des techniques et a entraîné leur corps et leur cœur.
Brontès : Parmi eux, ceux qui avaient une forte volonté éveillèrent en eux le pouvoir à l’origine de la création de l’univers, le Cosmos.
Brontès : Ils devinrent des êtres capables d’entrouvrir la terre de leurs pieds et de pourfendre les cieux de leurs poings.
Brontès : Ainsi les dieux obtinrent ce qu’ils désiraient.
Page 18
Brontès : La production de Saints.
Brontès : Voilà quel était le plan des dieux.
Seiya : Ils ont créé eux-mêmes des êtres capables de les combattre ?!
Seiya : S’ils veulent s’emparer de la Terre, ça n’a aucun sens !!
Brontès : En envahissant la Terre, ils donnent aux humains la volonté de combattre.
Brontès : La Terre n’est que la motivation qui pousse les mortels à se battre.
Brontès : Depuis le début, le monde où vivent les dieux est sans commune mesure avec la Terre. C’est une terre qui déborde de pouvoir.
Brontès : Elle est faite de matériaux solides et inébranlables.
Page 19
Brontès : Des matériaux robustes comme l'indestructible orichalque.
Brontès : Peu importe l’ennemi extérieur qui se présentera, elle ne craint absolument rien et ne tremblera jamais.
Seiya : Attends…
Seiya : Qu’est-ce que tu viens de dire… ?
Brontès : Reconnais...
Brontès : le monde qui t'entoure.
Seiya : C’est pas vrai !!!
Seiya : Ce n’est pas possible !!!
Pages 20-21
Brontès : Le monde des dieux est entièrement fait…
Brontès : de restes de Saints.
Page 22
Seiya : C’est n’importe quoi, cette histoire… !!
Seiya : Cette… érosion… Le monde des dieux…
Seiya : Tu veux me faire croire que tout ça est fait des dépouilles des Saints ?!!
Seiya : C’est absurde !!!
Brontès : Sans cela…
Brontès : les dieux ne vous auraient pas octroyé cette faveur de combattre contre eux.
Brontès : Pour les dieux, vous, les Saints…
Brontès : n’êtes que des matériaux choisis pour bâtir une terre robuste.
Page 23
Brontès : Depuis les temps mythologiques, les guerres saintes se sont répétées sans cesse…
Brontès : pour étendre fermement le monde absolu des dieux.
Brontès : Les humains ne sont que des offrandes.
Seiya : Pourquoi ?!
Seiya : Pourquoi m’as-tu raconté ça ?
Page 24
Seiya : Tu m’as révélé la machination des dieux alors que je suis un Saint, un ennemi ?!
Seiya : Qui es-tu, à la fin ?!
Brontès : Je suis…
Brontès : l’origine.
Brontès : Le point de départ…
Brontès : qui a débuté la guerre sainte de ta génération.
Page 01
Argès : Seule la statue d’Athéna continue de s’opposer…
Argès : à la transformation forcée du Sanctuaire en Pandémonium.
Argès : Comme si elle reflétait ton propre cœur.
Pages 02-03
Argès : Mais… combien de temps encore tiendra ce Dunamis ?
Argès : En recevant le karma des humains dans ton propre corps…
Argès : Tu condamnes ta chair de déesse à la destruction.
Argès : Tu croyais en eux. Résultat : ils t’ont trahie.
Argès : Te menant ainsi au désespoir.
Argès : Le désespoir est le seul pouvoir capable de tuer Athéna.
Argès: Lève les yeux au ciel.
Page 04
Argès : Le désespoir est revenu…
Argès : pour détruire ton âme.
Saori : Ce n’est pas… possible ?
Saori : Oh non…
Saori : Cet être est à l’origine de tout.
Page 05
Saori : Une rencontre inattendue qui ne doit absolument pas être permise.
Saori : Seiya… Tu ne dois pas rencontrer le « point de départ » !
Seiya : Pourquoi ? Je ne le connais pas, ce type. Sa voix… Son air…
Seiya : Et son Cosmos… ne me disent rien.
Seiya : Alors… Pourquoi ? Pourquoi mon cœur est-il si bouleversé ?
Page 06
Seiya : Devant moi se dressent fermement…
Seiya : cette cape noire et cet éclat rouge…
Seiya : qui font trembler mon âme et mon Cosmos.
Seiya : Ce type et moi sommes reliés par le destin !!!
Page 07
Seiya : Le cadavre disparaît ?!
Seiya : Ce type est donc bel et bien libre de faire des sauts dimensionnels, même au cœur du Sanctuaire !!!
Seiya : Il disparaît ?!
Seiya : Attends !! D’où tu connais mon nom ?!
Page 08
Seiya : Il m’attaque ?!
Seiya : D’aussi loin ?!
Page 09
Seiya : Son poing…
Seiya : a ignoré la distance…
Seiya : en effectuant un saut dimensionnel ?!
Pages 10-11
Brontès : MUGEN KOUDOU (voie cramoisie (de lumière) infinie)
Seiya : Il a multiplié à l’infini…
Seiya : une seule attaque ?!
Page 12
Seiya : Qu'y a-t-il... ?
Page 13
Seiya : Qu’est-ce qui te surprend ? Tu ne peux pas te débarrasser de moi aussi facilement.
Seiya : Ça ne fait que commencer.
Seiya : Alors, qu’est-ce que tu vas me montrer ensuite ? J’ai hâte !
Brontès : Dans ce cas…
Brontès : Parlons un peu…
Seiya : Je suis pressé, je n’ai pas de temps à perdre.
Brontès : Tu veux sauver Athéna.
Page 14
Brontès : Tu dois connaître la raison qui te pousse à poursuivre le combat.
Brontès : Pourquoi les guerres saintes se sont-elles répétées, encore et encore…
Brontès : durant la longue histoire du Sanctuaire ?
Seiya : Pour empêcher toute invasion…
Seiya : Nous avons toujours versé notre sang pour protéger le monde…
Seiya : la Terre… et ses habitants !!
Brontès : Dans ce cas, pourquoi les dieux combattent-ils et versent-ils leur sang…
Brontès : pour mettre la main sur cette planète ?
Page 15
Seiya : Ils veulent tellement l’avoir qu’ils vont jusqu’à combattre pour s’en emparer !
Seiya : Parce que ce monde est magnifique et merveilleux !
Brontès : Quel orgueil.
Brontès : C’est le comble de l’arrogance de penser que cette Terre paraît magnifique aux yeux des dieux.
Brontès : Au nom de son développement, l’humanité a pollué la Terre.
Brontès : C'est une nuisance pour les dieux.
Brontès : La Terre n’est plus qu’un lieu en quarantaine à l’usage exclusif de l’humanité. Une abomination.
Page 16
Brontès : Les dieux ne sont pas intéressés par un tel endroit.
Brontès : Notre comportement et notre objectif sont opposés.
Brontès : Notre objectif est de continuer à provoquer des guerres saintes.
Seiya : Le résultat d’une guerre sainte n’a aucune importance…
Seiya : Vous désirez poursuivre une guerre éternelle… ?!
Brontès : Les dieux sont des êtres insatiables.
Brontès : Ce que les dieux veulent, ils l’obtiennent…
Brontès : peu importent les moyens.
Page 17
Seiya : Et toi, tu connais l’objectif…
Seiya : Ou plutôt… le plan des dieux ?
Brontès : Pour s’opposer aux invasions divines des guerres saintes…
Brontès : les humains ont imploré l’assistance de la déesse Athéna.
Brontès : Elle a rassemblé des gens puissants au Sanctuaire afin de combattre les dieux.
Brontès : Elle leur a donné des techniques et a entraîné leur corps et leur cœur.
Brontès : Parmi eux, ceux qui avaient une forte volonté éveillèrent en eux le pouvoir à l’origine de la création de l’univers, le Cosmos.
Brontès : Ils devinrent des êtres capables d’entrouvrir la terre de leurs pieds et de pourfendre les cieux de leurs poings.
Brontès : Ainsi les dieux obtinrent ce qu’ils désiraient.
Page 18
Brontès : La production de Saints.
Brontès : Voilà quel était le plan des dieux.
Seiya : Ils ont créé eux-mêmes des êtres capables de les combattre ?!
Seiya : S’ils veulent s’emparer de la Terre, ça n’a aucun sens !!
Brontès : En envahissant la Terre, ils donnent aux humains la volonté de combattre.
Brontès : La Terre n’est que la motivation qui pousse les mortels à se battre.
Brontès : Depuis le début, le monde où vivent les dieux est sans commune mesure avec la Terre. C’est une terre qui déborde de pouvoir.
Brontès : Elle est faite de matériaux solides et inébranlables.
Page 19
Brontès : Des matériaux robustes comme l'indestructible orichalque.
Brontès : Peu importe l’ennemi extérieur qui se présentera, elle ne craint absolument rien et ne tremblera jamais.
Seiya : Attends…
Seiya : Qu’est-ce que tu viens de dire… ?
Brontès : Reconnais...
Brontès : le monde qui t'entoure.
Seiya : C’est pas vrai !!!
Seiya : Ce n’est pas possible !!!
Pages 20-21
Brontès : Le monde des dieux est entièrement fait…
Brontès : de restes de Saints.
Page 22
Seiya : C’est n’importe quoi, cette histoire… !!
Seiya : Cette… érosion… Le monde des dieux…
Seiya : Tu veux me faire croire que tout ça est fait des dépouilles des Saints ?!!
Seiya : C’est absurde !!!
Brontès : Sans cela…
Brontès : les dieux ne vous auraient pas octroyé cette faveur de combattre contre eux.
Brontès : Pour les dieux, vous, les Saints…
Brontès : n’êtes que des matériaux choisis pour bâtir une terre robuste.
Page 23
Brontès : Depuis les temps mythologiques, les guerres saintes se sont répétées sans cesse…
Brontès : pour étendre fermement le monde absolu des dieux.
Brontès : Les humains ne sont que des offrandes.
Seiya : Pourquoi ?!
Seiya : Pourquoi m’as-tu raconté ça ?
Page 24
Seiya : Tu m’as révélé la machination des dieux alors que je suis un Saint, un ennemi ?!
Seiya : Qui es-tu, à la fin ?!
Brontès : Je suis…
Brontès : l’origine.
Brontès : Le point de départ…
Brontès : qui a débuté la guerre sainte de ta génération.
English translation by GodClothShango.
Chapter 15: Starting point
Page 01
Ages: Only the statue of Athena continues to oppose ...
Ages: to the forced transformation of the Sanctuary into Pandemonium.
Argès: As if it reflected your own heart.
Pages 02-03
Argès: But… how long will this Dunamis last?
Argès: By receiving the karma of humans in your own body…
Argès: You condemn your goddess flesh to destruction.
Argès: You believed in them. Result: they betrayed you.
Argès: Thus leading you to despair.
Argès: Despair is the only power capable of killing Athena.
Argès: Roll your eyes.
Page 04
Argès: Despair has returned…
Argès: to destroy your soul.
Saori: It's not… possible?
Saori: Oh no…
Saori: This being is at the origin of everything.
Page 05
Saori: An unexpected encounter that should absolutely not be allowed.
Saori: Seiya… You must not meet the "starting point"!
Seiya: Why? I don't know this guy. Her voice… Her air…
Seiya: And her Cosmos… don't mean anything to me.
Seiya: So… why? Why is my heart so upset?
Page 06
Seiya: In front of me stand firmly…
Seiya: this black cloak and this red glow…
Seiya: which make my soul and my Cosmos tremble.
Seiya: This guy and I are linked by fate !!!
Page 07
Seiya: The corpse disappears ?!
Seiya: So this guy is indeed free to do dimensional jumps, even in the heart of the Sanctuary !!!
Seiya: Is he disappearing ?!
Seiya: Wait !! Where do you know my name from ?!
Page 08
Seiya: He's attacking me ?!
Seiya: From this far ?!
Page 09
Seiya: His fist…
Seiya: ignored the distance…
Seiya: by performing a dimensional jump ?!
Pages 10-11
Brontès: MUGEN KOUDOU (infinite crimson way (of light)
Seiya: He multiplied to infinity…
Seiya: only one attack ?!
Page 12
Seiya: What is ...?
Page 13
Seiya: What surprises you? You can't get rid of me that easily.
Seiya: It's only just getting started.
Seiya: So, what are you going to show me next? I look forward !
Brontès: In that case ...
Brontès: Let's talk a little ...
Seiya: I'm in a hurry, I have no time to waste.
Brontès: You want to save Athena.
Page 14
Brontès: You must know the reason which pushes you to continue the fight.
Brontès: Why were the holy wars repeated over and over again…
Brontès: during the long history of the Sanctuary?
Seiya: To prevent any invasion…
Seiya: We have always shed our blood to protect the world…
Seiya: Earth… and its inhabitants !!
Brontès: In that case, why do the gods fight and shed their blood ...
Brontès: to get your hands on this planet?
Page 15
Seiya: They want so they will have to fight to seize!
Seiya: Because this world is beautiful and wonderful!
Brontès: What pride.
Brontès: It is the height of arrogance to think that this Earth looks magnificent in the eyes of the gods.
Brontès: In the name of its development, humanity has polluted the Earth.
Brontès: It's a nuisance for the gods.
Brontès: Earth is no longer a place in quarantine for the exclusive use of humanity. An abomination.
Page 16
Brontès: The gods are not interested in such a place.
Brontès: Our behavior and our objective are opposed.
Brontès: Our goal is to continue to provoke holy wars.
Seiya: The outcome of a holy war does not matter…
Seiya: You wish to continue an eternal war… ?!
Brontès: The gods are insatiable beings.
Brontès: What the gods want, they get…
Brontès: the means do not matter.
Page 17
Seiya: And you, you know the objective…
Seiya: Or rather… the plan of the gods?
Brontès: To oppose the divine invasions of the holy wars…
Brontès: humans implored the assistance of the goddess Athena.
Brontès: She gathered powerful people at the Sanctuary in order to fight the gods.
Brontès: She gave them techniques and trained their body and their heart.
Brontès: Among them, those who had a strong will awakened in them the power at the origin of the creation of the universe, the Cosmos.
Brontès: They became beings capable of opening the earth with their feet and slitting the skies with their fists.
Brontès: So the gods got what they wanted.
Page 18
Brontès: The production of Saints.
Brontès: This was the plan of the gods.
Seiya: They themselves created beings capable of fighting them ?!
Seiya: If they want to take over Earth, it doesn't make sense !!
Brontès: By invading Earth, they give humans the will to fight.
Brontès: Earth is only the motivation that drives mortals to fight.
Brontès: From the start, the world where the gods live has been out of step with the Earth. It is a land full of power.
Brontès: It is made of solid and unwavering materials.
Page 19
Brontès: Robust materials like the indestructible Orichalcum.
Brontès: No matter what external enemy presents itself, it fears absolutely nothing and will never tremble.
Seiya: Wait…
Seiya: What did you just say…?
Brontès: Recognize ...
Brontès: the world around you.
Seiya: It's not true !!!
Seiya: It's not possible !!!
Pages 20-21
Brontès: The world of the gods is entirely made…
Brontès: of the remains of Saints.
Page 22
Seiya: That's rubbish, this story… !!
Seiya: This… erosion… The world of the gods…
Seiya: You want me to believe that this is all made of the remains of the Saints? !!
Seiya: This is absurd !!!
Brontès: Without that…
Brontès: the gods would not have granted you this favor of fighting against them.
Brontès: For the gods, you, the Saints…
Brontès: are only materials chosen to build a robust earth.
Page 23
Brontès: Since mythological times, holy wars have been repeated over and over again…
Brontès: to firmly extend the absolute world of the gods.
Brontès: Humans are just offerings.
Seiya: Why ?!
Seiya: Why did you tell me this?
Page 24
Seiya: You revealed to me the machinations of the gods when I am a Saint, an enemy ?!
Seiya: Who are you, in the end ?!
Brontès: I am…
Brontès: the origin.
Brontès: The starting point…
Brontès: who started the holy war of your generation.
Page 01
Ages: Only the statue of Athena continues to oppose ...
Ages: to the forced transformation of the Sanctuary into Pandemonium.
Argès: As if it reflected your own heart.
Pages 02-03
Argès: But… how long will this Dunamis last?
Argès: By receiving the karma of humans in your own body…
Argès: You condemn your goddess flesh to destruction.
Argès: You believed in them. Result: they betrayed you.
Argès: Thus leading you to despair.
Argès: Despair is the only power capable of killing Athena.
Argès: Roll your eyes.
Page 04
Argès: Despair has returned…
Argès: to destroy your soul.
Saori: It's not… possible?
Saori: Oh no…
Saori: This being is at the origin of everything.
Page 05
Saori: An unexpected encounter that should absolutely not be allowed.
Saori: Seiya… You must not meet the "starting point"!
Seiya: Why? I don't know this guy. Her voice… Her air…
Seiya: And her Cosmos… don't mean anything to me.
Seiya: So… why? Why is my heart so upset?
Page 06
Seiya: In front of me stand firmly…
Seiya: this black cloak and this red glow…
Seiya: which make my soul and my Cosmos tremble.
Seiya: This guy and I are linked by fate !!!
Page 07
Seiya: The corpse disappears ?!
Seiya: So this guy is indeed free to do dimensional jumps, even in the heart of the Sanctuary !!!
Seiya: Is he disappearing ?!
Seiya: Wait !! Where do you know my name from ?!
Page 08
Seiya: He's attacking me ?!
Seiya: From this far ?!
Page 09
Seiya: His fist…
Seiya: ignored the distance…
Seiya: by performing a dimensional jump ?!
Pages 10-11
Brontès: MUGEN KOUDOU (infinite crimson way (of light)
Seiya: He multiplied to infinity…
Seiya: only one attack ?!
Page 12
Seiya: What is ...?
Page 13
Seiya: What surprises you? You can't get rid of me that easily.
Seiya: It's only just getting started.
Seiya: So, what are you going to show me next? I look forward !
Brontès: In that case ...
Brontès: Let's talk a little ...
Seiya: I'm in a hurry, I have no time to waste.
Brontès: You want to save Athena.
Page 14
Brontès: You must know the reason which pushes you to continue the fight.
Brontès: Why were the holy wars repeated over and over again…
Brontès: during the long history of the Sanctuary?
Seiya: To prevent any invasion…
Seiya: We have always shed our blood to protect the world…
Seiya: Earth… and its inhabitants !!
Brontès: In that case, why do the gods fight and shed their blood ...
Brontès: to get your hands on this planet?
Page 15
Seiya: They want so they will have to fight to seize!
Seiya: Because this world is beautiful and wonderful!
Brontès: What pride.
Brontès: It is the height of arrogance to think that this Earth looks magnificent in the eyes of the gods.
Brontès: In the name of its development, humanity has polluted the Earth.
Brontès: It's a nuisance for the gods.
Brontès: Earth is no longer a place in quarantine for the exclusive use of humanity. An abomination.
Page 16
Brontès: The gods are not interested in such a place.
Brontès: Our behavior and our objective are opposed.
Brontès: Our goal is to continue to provoke holy wars.
Seiya: The outcome of a holy war does not matter…
Seiya: You wish to continue an eternal war… ?!
Brontès: The gods are insatiable beings.
Brontès: What the gods want, they get…
Brontès: the means do not matter.
Page 17
Seiya: And you, you know the objective…
Seiya: Or rather… the plan of the gods?
Brontès: To oppose the divine invasions of the holy wars…
Brontès: humans implored the assistance of the goddess Athena.
Brontès: She gathered powerful people at the Sanctuary in order to fight the gods.
Brontès: She gave them techniques and trained their body and their heart.
Brontès: Among them, those who had a strong will awakened in them the power at the origin of the creation of the universe, the Cosmos.
Brontès: They became beings capable of opening the earth with their feet and slitting the skies with their fists.
Brontès: So the gods got what they wanted.
Page 18
Brontès: The production of Saints.
Brontès: This was the plan of the gods.
Seiya: They themselves created beings capable of fighting them ?!
Seiya: If they want to take over Earth, it doesn't make sense !!
Brontès: By invading Earth, they give humans the will to fight.
Brontès: Earth is only the motivation that drives mortals to fight.
Brontès: From the start, the world where the gods live has been out of step with the Earth. It is a land full of power.
Brontès: It is made of solid and unwavering materials.
Page 19
Brontès: Robust materials like the indestructible Orichalcum.
Brontès: No matter what external enemy presents itself, it fears absolutely nothing and will never tremble.
Seiya: Wait…
Seiya: What did you just say…?
Brontès: Recognize ...
Brontès: the world around you.
Seiya: It's not true !!!
Seiya: It's not possible !!!
Pages 20-21
Brontès: The world of the gods is entirely made…
Brontès: of the remains of Saints.
Page 22
Seiya: That's rubbish, this story… !!
Seiya: This… erosion… The world of the gods…
Seiya: You want me to believe that this is all made of the remains of the Saints? !!
Seiya: This is absurd !!!
Brontès: Without that…
Brontès: the gods would not have granted you this favor of fighting against them.
Brontès: For the gods, you, the Saints…
Brontès: are only materials chosen to build a robust earth.
Page 23
Brontès: Since mythological times, holy wars have been repeated over and over again…
Brontès: to firmly extend the absolute world of the gods.
Brontès: Humans are just offerings.
Seiya: Why ?!
Seiya: Why did you tell me this?
Page 24
Seiya: You revealed to me the machinations of the gods when I am a Saint, an enemy ?!
Seiya: Who are you, in the end ?!
Brontès: I am…
Brontès: the origin.
Brontès: The starting point…
Brontès: who started the holy war of your generation.
What kind of fanfic did I just read?
- The gods do not want to conquer the Earth, and they really cause the holy war, because they use the remains / corpses of the Saints as material for their world. Someone should remind the gods that the bodies of the Saints are not stronger than their armor.
- Brontes is probably Aiolos, Saga or it can even be Kido.
- Poseidon does not want the planet, his goal is to purify the world, as he did in the past. It is only the whim of a god who considers that humanity has abandoned its path and wishes to correct it. In short, he is the representation of the god of the Old Testament in the universe of Saint Seiya.
- Hades does not want the planet, his goal was to punish humanity in life and death, because from his point of view it is corrupt and must be punished. In short, he is a racist.
- Eris does not want the planet, the goddess' plan is to create conflict in the world, because the goddess needs that conflict to exist, as explained, she cannot exist in a peaceful world.
- Chronos and Artemis have no interest in Earth or humans.
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he’s overcome a lot of miracle bullshit then
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Our of that generation of Gold Saints I can believe it
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With his own power, this is probably true. In ND it is also described that Cain is the strongest Gold Saint, even the attack of Ikki (full power) that could damage Thanatos' armor, could not do any damage to Cain.
With Divine Items (Sacred Treasures), Gestalt is the strongest Gold Saint, because he has the Arrow of the Goddess, a weapon of Athena that only this goddess can stop and can erase her target forever. It is also probably the most powerful weapon of the Saints and one of the most powerful Sacred Treasures of the universe of Saint Seiya.
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They are divine weapons. Theur actually apart of Saturn's true weapon
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No, Ikki's attack damages the entire armor of Thanatos. You can even see the damage of the armor in the second image.
That's right.
The swords of the 4 kings are Sacred Treasures and in the later chapters it is revealed that the swords were part of Saturn's divine weapon.
Galia also says that his sword could kill Athena and Titan tries to kill Athena with his destroyed sword, but Seiya protects her and stops the attack.
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An interesting detail.
The second season of Omega was the first series in the franchise to introduce the concept that a god can only be defeated or killed by divine items.
In the first episode of the second season we could see that Seiya needs to use the Golden Dagger (later renamed by Kruumada as Sword of Chrysus) to kill Pallas (baby), even when Seiya is the most powerful Gold Saint and has greater power than a weak goddess like Pallas (baby). Because no matter the power or abilities of a Saint or warrior in this franchise, a god can only die by the power of the Sacred Treasure or Divine Items.
A concept that Kurumada made canon for the main universe in Zero, where Shura indicates that Athena can resurrect after his attack, so the Gold Saints cannot kill the gods. Also in the last chapters of ND we could see that the Pope gives Ikki the Sword of Chrysus to kill a weakened Athena. And this concept is also mentioned in Saintia Sho and Dark Wing.
That is why the Sanctuary has sacred treasure to kill or defeat the gods, such as the Poison of Samael, the Arrow of the Goddess, the Sword of Chrysus, the Labyrinth of the Gods in the Temple of the Pope, etc.
The second season of Omega was the first series in the franchise to introduce the concept that a god can only be defeated or killed by divine items.
In the first episode of the second season we could see that Seiya needs to use the Golden Dagger (later renamed by Kruumada as Sword of Chrysus) to kill Pallas (baby), even when Seiya is the most powerful Gold Saint and has greater power than a weak goddess like Pallas (baby). Because no matter the power or abilities of a Saint or warrior in this franchise, a god can only die by the power of the Sacred Treasure or Divine Items.
A concept that Kurumada made canon for the main universe in Zero, where Shura indicates that Athena can resurrect after his attack, so the Gold Saints cannot kill the gods. Also in the last chapters of ND we could see that the Pope gives Ikki the Sword of Chrysus to kill a weakened Athena. And this concept is also mentioned in Saintia Sho and Dark Wing.
That is why the Sanctuary has sacred treasure to kill or defeat the gods, such as the Poison of Samael, the Arrow of the Goddess, the Sword of Chrysus, the Labyrinth of the Gods in the Temple of the Pope, etc.
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Is it my imagination or The Lost Canvas has more anti-feats than feats.
These are the best feats of TLC.
Hypnos summons a meteorite to attack and Hakurei stops the meteorite. Although this is probably an anti-feat, because Hakurei was seriously injured by a small meteorite.
Alone (one of the strongest characters in this universe, probably only weaker than Hades) elevates Italy and places it on the Lost Canvas.
Tenma returning Alone's energy destroys a part of the Lost Canvas. Although this feat has a problem, since it was Alone's energy that created the Lost Canvas, so he can dispel this place with his power.
In the final battle with Hades, the moon created by Alone is destroyed. However, this is also an anti-feat, because Tenma, Sasha and Alone died in the destruction of this small moon.
In addition, Italy was destroyed in the world of The Lost Canvas, in case it wasn't clear that this is a different universe from Kurumada's manga.
Tezcatlipocatl (a spaceship created by an alien civilization) destroys several mountains with an energy beam.
The power of the evil eye of Balor turns a sea into fire.
I didn't find any impressive speed feats, just the typical description of the speed of light by some Gold Saints.
After this, I can say that even Naruto has better feats than the manga of The lost canvas.
These are the best feats of TLC.
Hypnos summons a meteorite to attack and Hakurei stops the meteorite. Although this is probably an anti-feat, because Hakurei was seriously injured by a small meteorite.
Alone (one of the strongest characters in this universe, probably only weaker than Hades) elevates Italy and places it on the Lost Canvas.
Tenma returning Alone's energy destroys a part of the Lost Canvas. Although this feat has a problem, since it was Alone's energy that created the Lost Canvas, so he can dispel this place with his power.
In the final battle with Hades, the moon created by Alone is destroyed. However, this is also an anti-feat, because Tenma, Sasha and Alone died in the destruction of this small moon.
Tezcatlipocatl (a spaceship created by an alien civilization) destroys several mountains with an energy beam.
The power of the evil eye of Balor turns a sea into fire.
I didn't find any impressive speed feats, just the typical description of the speed of light by some Gold Saints.
After this, I can say that even Naruto has better feats than the manga of The lost canvas.
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Is it my imagination or The Lost Canvas has more anti-feats than feats.
These are the best feats of TLC.
Hypnos summons a meteorite to attack and Hakurei stops the meteorite. Although this is probably an anti-feat, because Hakurei was seriously injured by a small meteorite.
Alone (one of the strongest characters in this universe, probably only weaker than Hades) elevates Italy and places it on the Lost Canvas.
Tenma returning Alone's energy destroys a part of the Lost Canvas. Although this feat has a problem, since it was Alone's energy that created the Lost Canvas, so he can dispel this place with his power.
In the final battle with Hades, the moon created by Alone is destroyed. However, this is also an anti-feat, because Tenma, Sasha and Alone died in the destruction of this small moon.
In addition, Italy was destroyed in the world of The Lost Canvas, in case it wasn't clear that this is a different universe from Kurumada's manga.
Tezcatlipocatl (a spaceship created by an alien civilization) destroys several mountains with an energy beam.
The power of the evil eye of Balor turns a sea into fire.
I didn't find any impressive speed feats, just the typical description of the speed of light by some Gold Saints.
After this, I can say that even Naruto has better feats than the manga of The lost canvas.
I don't see how these are anti-feats.
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Gimme a moment i'll go ever the problems I have with the speed feats being used on Matts calc blog thingy
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Subject matter A.) - "The Saints Cross The Hyperdimension" (aka crossing the underworld Universes)
1.) The Underworld is made up of multiple "Worlds" a couple being stated to be "Infinite" in size. Crossing an infinite distance in finite time = Infinite Speed
2.) The Taizen directly states there is "Portals" that connects these "Worlds" in the underworld
3.) Time and space (Duration, and Distance) are distorted and "always in flux" within the super dimensional space. That is a straight up immeasurable speed feat no matter how you look at it.
4.) By current standards of VSBW the Underworld Cosmology is accepted as 2-C therefore the Universes MUST be infinite in 3D size.
Subject B.) Hecate Crossing 1000 Light Years
1.) This is vague asf. It's not stated how she returned. Did she teleport back? Was it really through speed? Did she used portal creation? was she really blown back 1000 light years? Simply not enough information
2.) Timeframe; The gods are accepted as "MFTL" with "MFTL" reaction with a 7th sense shun around them. So the timeframe to use becomes iffy.
Subject C.) Ikki Vs Shaka: A monkey in Buddha's Hand
This one is my favorite
1.) This was a freaking illusion lmao.
2.) This is an outlier. This was before 7th sense Ikki
3.) Shaka states he ran to a "Nayuta" so 10^60th light years. so alread the calc is super lowballed
Subject D.) Shun's Nebula Chain Crossing Saga's Another Dimension
1.) The chain is pure hax. It has Portal creation hax + Time and Space Hax
2.) The chains speed varies. For example, it didn't listen to shun at first and reacted on its own to Ikki, but ikki reacted to it. Does that make pre-7th sense Ikki MFTL now? That would really convult the scaling
Subject E.) Saints Exchange Attacks from Universes Away (Aiolos in Assassins vs Saga, Shura, Deathmask, Kanon, Rhad etc.)
1.) 2-A Cosmology issues here. The distance between the Universes is never shown or stated. This would end up making it an infinite speed attack and reactions. The Multiverse is infinite with the universes in the multiverse being infinite as well (3D space being infinite)
2.) You could argue portal creation hax here which basically throws the speed feat out the window too
Subject F.) Eris Pulls Souls to the Edge of the Universe
1.) Universe is infinite. "Edge of an infinite universe" that makes this another infinite speed feat
2.) would end up yielding a high 3-A feat too "edge of infinity" and you can see that explosion like a second sun. Would be interesting to calc though. It is probably possible. Might end up doing that one day for fun.
Subject G.) Thanatos Attacks From Cross-Universal Distances
1.) Again Super Dimensional Space issues - Which is blatant immeasurable speed
2.) 2-A cosmology issues - Which makes it an infinite speed feat
3.) The universe being infinite in size (3D space) still makes it infinite speed
4.) Portal creation hax to open a portal and shoot an attack thorugh would throw the calc out of the window but that is clearly not the case with context
Subject H.) Poseidon Telekinetically Sends the Gold Cloths
1.) Immeasurable speed feat and reaction feat - Super Dimensional Space Again.
2.) 2-A Cosmology issues again - makes this infinite speed
3.) Universes (Low 2-C Worlds) so 3D space is infinite in each world. Makes this infinite at least
4.) Obviously not portal creation hax
Subject H.) Capricorn Shura Surpassing the Initial Big Bang Inflation
This one is my ******* favorite to nitpick
1.) Cosmic inflation is super facking lowballed. The distance being used is simply not usable. the value is too low to achieve the wonders this universe has today
2.) There is 2 very different big bangs in the saint seiya universe. 1 for Low 2-C Universes. 1 for the Macrocosmo.
3.) 1 would result in infinite speed since he is out running the creation of inifnite distance with time, and the other is immeasurable outrunning the creation of history
4.) this is facking miracles at work lol
What isn't calc? the "Bullet dodging" feats of dodging light speed punches in less than 10 meters apart fights.
This is just a short summary.
1.) The Underworld is made up of multiple "Worlds" a couple being stated to be "Infinite" in size. Crossing an infinite distance in finite time = Infinite Speed
2.) The Taizen directly states there is "Portals" that connects these "Worlds" in the underworld
3.) Time and space (Duration, and Distance) are distorted and "always in flux" within the super dimensional space. That is a straight up immeasurable speed feat no matter how you look at it.
4.) By current standards of VSBW the Underworld Cosmology is accepted as 2-C therefore the Universes MUST be infinite in 3D size.
Subject B.) Hecate Crossing 1000 Light Years
1.) This is vague asf. It's not stated how she returned. Did she teleport back? Was it really through speed? Did she used portal creation? was she really blown back 1000 light years? Simply not enough information
2.) Timeframe; The gods are accepted as "MFTL" with "MFTL" reaction with a 7th sense shun around them. So the timeframe to use becomes iffy.
Subject C.) Ikki Vs Shaka: A monkey in Buddha's Hand
This one is my favorite
1.) This was a freaking illusion lmao.
2.) This is an outlier. This was before 7th sense Ikki
3.) Shaka states he ran to a "Nayuta" so 10^60th light years. so alread the calc is super lowballed
Subject D.) Shun's Nebula Chain Crossing Saga's Another Dimension
1.) The chain is pure hax. It has Portal creation hax + Time and Space Hax
2.) The chains speed varies. For example, it didn't listen to shun at first and reacted on its own to Ikki, but ikki reacted to it. Does that make pre-7th sense Ikki MFTL now? That would really convult the scaling
Subject E.) Saints Exchange Attacks from Universes Away (Aiolos in Assassins vs Saga, Shura, Deathmask, Kanon, Rhad etc.)
1.) 2-A Cosmology issues here. The distance between the Universes is never shown or stated. This would end up making it an infinite speed attack and reactions. The Multiverse is infinite with the universes in the multiverse being infinite as well (3D space being infinite)
2.) You could argue portal creation hax here which basically throws the speed feat out the window too
Subject F.) Eris Pulls Souls to the Edge of the Universe
1.) Universe is infinite. "Edge of an infinite universe" that makes this another infinite speed feat
2.) would end up yielding a high 3-A feat too "edge of infinity" and you can see that explosion like a second sun. Would be interesting to calc though. It is probably possible. Might end up doing that one day for fun.
Subject G.) Thanatos Attacks From Cross-Universal Distances
1.) Again Super Dimensional Space issues - Which is blatant immeasurable speed
2.) 2-A cosmology issues - Which makes it an infinite speed feat
3.) The universe being infinite in size (3D space) still makes it infinite speed
4.) Portal creation hax to open a portal and shoot an attack thorugh would throw the calc out of the window but that is clearly not the case with context
Subject H.) Poseidon Telekinetically Sends the Gold Cloths
1.) Immeasurable speed feat and reaction feat - Super Dimensional Space Again.
2.) 2-A Cosmology issues again - makes this infinite speed
3.) Universes (Low 2-C Worlds) so 3D space is infinite in each world. Makes this infinite at least
4.) Obviously not portal creation hax
Subject H.) Capricorn Shura Surpassing the Initial Big Bang Inflation
This one is my ******* favorite to nitpick
1.) Cosmic inflation is super facking lowballed. The distance being used is simply not usable. the value is too low to achieve the wonders this universe has today
2.) There is 2 very different big bangs in the saint seiya universe. 1 for Low 2-C Universes. 1 for the Macrocosmo.
3.) 1 would result in infinite speed since he is out running the creation of inifnite distance with time, and the other is immeasurable outrunning the creation of history
4.) this is facking miracles at work lol
What isn't calc? the "Bullet dodging" feats of dodging light speed punches in less than 10 meters apart fights.
This is just a short summary.
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For characters that are 3-A or 2-C on their pages, taking serious damage to their body from a small meteor or dying in the destruction of a small moon is an anti-feat.
There's also the fact that The Lost Canvas doesn't have any 3-A or 1-C feats in its history. The best feat is probably just 5-C for Hades and Alone who are the strongest characters in this universe.
The problem with this feat is that Aioros is not in another universe, he is in the same universe and attacks from his planet that orbits around the Earth of that universe. And the Saints who received that attack have not yet reached the Underworld.
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Not exactly
1.) Context. Subjective reality hax was involved with this feat
2.) This is a common trope. That trope is also most prevalent in American comics. It's simply called PIS.
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As for the speed feat debate. There is still the issue of "how far/distance" and they are indeed in the underworld of Yomotsu hirasaka that os directly stated.
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Tbf, these meteors are created and intended to be weapons. Its not nessecarily a meteor level ap. But you could easily chalk it up to pis i suppose.
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Context, it only uses an ability to summon a small meteorite without any special characteristics.
PIS applies when the character has other more impressive feats in his series, something that doesn't work like that in this manga, where the best feat is probably only 5-C by the most powerful character.
This is why it is an impossible feat to calculate, because we do not know the distance between the Yomotsu and Earth, and the manga presents this place as a different plane of existence, a world between life and death.
The problem is that the characters never describe this meteorite as special and only describe it as a simple meteorite.
Also, there are no other more impressive feats by these characters, to indicate that this is PIS.
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it would end with infinite or immeasurable speed though due cosmology of the verse.
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can i make an upgrade CRT
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you could try.
I recommend you put things in a google doc first to make a rough draft. Make a well organized and detailed CRT helps a lot
it would need to be an Upgrade and a Downgrade at the same time though
I just want to clarify im still sorting out the speed feats in the verse but im not in a good space irl to do anything big or major.
Hasty12345
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I too recommend making sure it's all very organised and if you use a google docs, it would be much appreciated if you let some of us check it out before making a CRT.
Infinite and immeasurable speed threads almost always go down in flames, so it's best we make sure we got the arguments well vetted before attempting such an upgrade.
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The problem is that we don't know the distance between the Yomotsu and Earth in Assassin, so it's an incalculable feat, plus it doesn't even seem like a speed feat to be honest. Only in Saintia Sho is it explained that they can reach the Yomotsu Hirasaka by traveling to the edge of the universe, because it seems they can reach other dimensions there.
Saintia Sho Stage 77
P24 Phobos: DEFIANT VORTEX
P25
Erda: I am... Lost in Space...
Erda: For how long... Have I been here...........?
Erda: Thanks to the Moon Hagoromo... I can still breath for a while...
Erda: I'm too far, I can't see the Eden... Nor the Moon and the Sun...
Erda: ............ I can't go back...
Erda: Breathing is getting harder...
Erda: ... Sorry, girls... Lady Athena...
Erda: I................ can't.........
P26
Deathmask: What's up, brat?...
Deathmask: Wanna tell me something, huh? With that face...
Elda: Death... Mask...?
P27
Deathmask: This place is connected to Yomotsu Hirasaka
Deathmask: Your life ends at the ends of the universe
Deathmask: But if you want, I can send you the hole at Yomotsu, you'll be more confortable... What do you say? Huhuhu...
Erda: Cut.. the jokes...
Erda: That's... right..
Erda: I'd rather die... than ask you... a favor...
Erda: If I die here... This bastard will laugh out loud...
Deathmask: Khukhu... Ohh?
Deathmask: So just keep trying to resist... Khukhu You can't... die now!!
Erda: What's this... light? Erda: It's dazzling...
P28
Erda: Uh... Ryuthos: ... You're alive!?
Ryuthos: What a relief!!
Erda: ...... Who's this!?
Who's the young man who came to her rescue!?
Deathmask: Your life ends at the ends of the universe (お前の命は宇宙の果てで尽きかけてるぜ)
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A user of cvz is reviewing and translating the Taizen in Portuguese.
Images:
In Japanese:
In Portuguese:
It's interesting how well explained the concept of the Specters is, which makes you wonder how Shiori could get it so wrong in TLC.
Specters are not sealed souls or reincarnations, they are only humans who were chosen by the Evil Stars, who awakened in their soul the knowledge and power of the Specters. In short, it is the Evil Stars and the Surplice that give the Specters their power.
In the Tower they never sealed souls and only sealed the Evil Stars.
Also, this confirms why Athena and the Saints don't just destroy the souls (or the silly concept of TLC where they seal their souls) of the Specters, as this doesn't matter, since Hades can choose new candidates for the Specters. As it happens in Dark Wing, where they destroyed the Underworld and eliminated many souls and Specters in that place, and Hades only chose new users for the Evil Stars and Surplices.
Taizen:
冥闘士の上位に位置するふたりの神、ヒュプノスとタナトスが冥闘士を捨て駒程度に見下しているのは、冥衣によって作られる冥闘士の素性を知っているからであった。彼らにしてみれば、冥闘士が全滅しても、再度、魔星に選ばれた者に冥衣を与えれば、戦力を無限に補充できるのである。
Hypnos e Thanatos, dois deuses superiores aos Specters, desprezam os Specters como se fossem buchas de canhão, pois sabem que os Specters nascem das Surplices. Para eles, mesmo que todos os Specters sejam eliminados, suas tropas podem ser repostas infinitamente, pois os Surplices podem ser dados a outros que são eleitos pelas Estrelas Malignas.
This also explains what was presented in Next Dimension with Suikyo, where Pandora chose him as Garuda's Specter and gave him the Surplice of Garuda and the Evil Star of Valiance. Because Hades, Hypnos, Thanatos, Ker and Pandora can choose any human to carry the Surplice and the Evil Star, the human does not matter.
This part is interesting.
ハーデスの支配する冥界は、アテナをはじめ、他の神々の力が及ばない世界であり、唯一、冥王からその存在が許された者、つまり冥闘士しか活動することが許されない。そのために他の勢力から攻め込まれることがなく、神話の時代から他の勢力の侵入を阻んできた鉄壁の守りを誇っていたのだ(だが、今度の聖戦では黄金聖闘士・乙女座のシャカは、阿頼耶識を発現させることで冥界に侵攻する手段を見出す)。このため、幾度となく戦いを繰り広げながらもアテナは、その冥界の戦力を根絶やしにすることができなかったのだ。
O Submundo governado por Hades é um mundo inatingível pelo poder dos outros deuses, inclusive Athena. Somente aqueles que foram autorizados pelo Imperador das Trevas podem agir livremente, ou seja, apenas como Specters. Portanto, sem ser atacado por outras forças, orgulhavam-se da proteção intransponível que impedia a invasão de outras forças desde a Era Mitológica (no entanto, nesta Guerra Santa, o Cavaleiro de Ouro Shaka de Virgo encontrou uma maneira de invadir o Submundo manifestando o alaya-vijnana).
The Underworld is described as an unreachable place even for the power of the gods. In the manga, Athena needs to awaken the Eighth Sense (thanks to Shaka's message) to enter the Underworld.
This makes me wonder if the gods have the Eighth Sense, or is this a sense that only humans can awaken. And Athena can only awaken the Eighth Sense, because she is a goddess who reincarnated as a human.
Athena in the past could never invade the Underworld (world of the dead), that's why she could never destroy the body of Hades and end the holy war forever, because the god hid his body in the Elyseum. This means that Athena with only the power she possesses as a goddess could never enter the Underworld (a place unreachable even for the power of the gods), and she needed to awaken the Eighth Sense to enter that place.
In Kurumada's manga it is never mentioned that the gods awaken any sense, they are beings of great power because they are gods, they do not need to awaken any sense to obtain their powers, because they are born as beings superior to humans. The concept of senses was always something exclusive to humans.
Images:
In Japanese:
冥王と冥闘士
前聖戦において、アテナの聖闘士たちを苦しめた黒き闘士。それが冥闘士だ!
243年前に封印された、冥王ハーデスとその軍団。前聖戦における冥闘士と聖闘士の戦いは熾烈を極め、この戦いで多くの聖闘士がその命を落としており、わずか2名の黄金聖闘士しか生き延びることができなかったという…。
▼冥王の戦士は、みな冥衣と呼ばれる漆黒のプロテクターをその体に装着する。
たとえ聖闘士といえども、その命は永遠ではないことは既に前の項で述べているが、実王の軍団に関しては、その常識は当てはまらない。死者の国である冥界を治めるハーデスは、己の国の住人たちに肉体を与えることができるからだ。ハーデスの軍団に関しては、死という概念は存在せず、戦いにおいては相討ちとなることも辞さない者が多い。それゆえにその軍団は、他に類を見ない強力な力を獲得するに至っている。
ハーデスの支配する冥界は、アテナをはじめ、他の神々の力が及ばない世界であり、唯一、冥王からその存在が許された者、つまり冥闘士しか活動することが許されない。そのために他の勢力から攻め込まれることがなく、神話の時代から他の勢力の侵入を阻んできた鉄壁の守りを誇っていたのだ(だが、今度の聖戦では黄金聖闘士・乙女座のシャカは、阿頼耶識を発現させることで冥界に侵攻する手段を見出す)。このため、幾度となく戦いを繰り広げながらもアテナは、その冥界の戦力を根絶やしにすることができなかったのだ。
前聖戦においてアテナの聖闘士たちは、その総力をあげて冥王の軍団を封印した。しかし、この封印は決して完璧なものではなく、やがてその封印が効力を失う日が来ることは明らかであった。
そこで、生き残った二人の黄金聖闘士のうちのひとり、天秤座の童虎は、先代アテナより神々の秘法とされる仮死の法を受け、五老峰に留まり封印の塔を監視することになる。
双子座のサガの乱、それに続く海皇ポセイドンの覚醒など、度重なる騒乱はアテナの封印の効力を弱め、ついにその封印が解ける日が訪れる。
この封印の塔に封じられていた百八の魔星は、世界各地へと散って冥闘士として選ばれた者の魂を呼び覚ますのである。
冥闘士としての魂を取り戻した者には、冥衣と呼ばれるプロテクターが与えられる。
冥衣とは、その名の通り、冥闘士がまとう防具で、漆黒の輝きを宿しているのが特徴である。冥闘士は、 この冥衣を装着することによって、特別に高い小宇宙に目覚めずとも冥界と地上界とを自在に行き来することができるのだ。
また、冥衣は、その魔星によって選ばれるため、聖闘士のような超絶的な修行も、海闘士のような天性の資質も必要としない。それは、魔星に見出された者、 つまり、衣が装着者の体へ直接的に働きかけ、聖衣に合わせた体質へと変換させる特性を有しているからだ。言い換えるのならば、冥闘士とは、冥衣を機能させるための触媒であり、冥衣に着られているということもできる。この装着者の肉体を変化させる特性は、時として、パピヨンのミューのように装着者を人ならざる者に変化させることもあるようだ。
瞬時に黄金聖闘士に匹敵する戦士を百八人も生み出す冥王の恐るべき奸計は、それだけにとどまらない。地上のハーデス城の周囲に結界を張ることで、聖闘士の力を抑制し、確実に勝利するための布陣を張っていたのだ。この結界内ならば、たとえ黄金聖闘士であっても、冥闘士の敵ではないのだ。ラダマンティスに対して一矢も報いることなく3人の黄金聖闘士が生きながら地獄へと落とされたのは、至極当然の結果と言えよう。
冥闘士の上位に位置するふたりの神、ヒュプノスとタナトスが冥闘士を捨て駒程度に見下しているのは、冥衣によって作られる冥闘士の素性を知っているからであった。彼らにしてみれば、冥闘士が全滅しても、再度、魔星に選ばれた者に冥衣を与えれば、戦力を無限に補充できるのである。
また、 いざとなれば、自分たちが出向くことで、すべての問題を解決できるという絶対の自信があったことも少なからず影響している。
▲冥闘士の魂を封じ込めた巨大な塔は、五老峰の西方、およそ千キロの地点にある秘境に存在する。
冥王の統治する冥界、すなわち地獄には、第二獄のケルベロスのように、神話の時代より伝えられる魔物、怪物たちが今日においても生き長らえている。
結界によって、命あるものすべてを絶するハーデス城。地上で唯一冥界への入り口がある場所。
冥王の肉体が眠る神殿
冥王は、自分の美しい肉体に傷がつくのを極端に恐れており、魂を分離させた後は、肉体をエリシオンの奥にある神殿の中に安置している。
冥王に仕える二人の神
冥界の軍団は、実質的には冥王を含め、この双子の神とのわずか3人から成り立っており、その戦力は一軍にも匹敵する。
前聖戦において、アテナの聖闘士たちを苦しめた黒き闘士。それが冥闘士だ!
243年前に封印された、冥王ハーデスとその軍団。前聖戦における冥闘士と聖闘士の戦いは熾烈を極め、この戦いで多くの聖闘士がその命を落としており、わずか2名の黄金聖闘士しか生き延びることができなかったという…。
▼冥王の戦士は、みな冥衣と呼ばれる漆黒のプロテクターをその体に装着する。
たとえ聖闘士といえども、その命は永遠ではないことは既に前の項で述べているが、実王の軍団に関しては、その常識は当てはまらない。死者の国である冥界を治めるハーデスは、己の国の住人たちに肉体を与えることができるからだ。ハーデスの軍団に関しては、死という概念は存在せず、戦いにおいては相討ちとなることも辞さない者が多い。それゆえにその軍団は、他に類を見ない強力な力を獲得するに至っている。
ハーデスの支配する冥界は、アテナをはじめ、他の神々の力が及ばない世界であり、唯一、冥王からその存在が許された者、つまり冥闘士しか活動することが許されない。そのために他の勢力から攻め込まれることがなく、神話の時代から他の勢力の侵入を阻んできた鉄壁の守りを誇っていたのだ(だが、今度の聖戦では黄金聖闘士・乙女座のシャカは、阿頼耶識を発現させることで冥界に侵攻する手段を見出す)。このため、幾度となく戦いを繰り広げながらもアテナは、その冥界の戦力を根絶やしにすることができなかったのだ。
前聖戦においてアテナの聖闘士たちは、その総力をあげて冥王の軍団を封印した。しかし、この封印は決して完璧なものではなく、やがてその封印が効力を失う日が来ることは明らかであった。
そこで、生き残った二人の黄金聖闘士のうちのひとり、天秤座の童虎は、先代アテナより神々の秘法とされる仮死の法を受け、五老峰に留まり封印の塔を監視することになる。
双子座のサガの乱、それに続く海皇ポセイドンの覚醒など、度重なる騒乱はアテナの封印の効力を弱め、ついにその封印が解ける日が訪れる。
この封印の塔に封じられていた百八の魔星は、世界各地へと散って冥闘士として選ばれた者の魂を呼び覚ますのである。
冥闘士としての魂を取り戻した者には、冥衣と呼ばれるプロテクターが与えられる。
冥衣とは、その名の通り、冥闘士がまとう防具で、漆黒の輝きを宿しているのが特徴である。冥闘士は、 この冥衣を装着することによって、特別に高い小宇宙に目覚めずとも冥界と地上界とを自在に行き来することができるのだ。
また、冥衣は、その魔星によって選ばれるため、聖闘士のような超絶的な修行も、海闘士のような天性の資質も必要としない。それは、魔星に見出された者、 つまり、衣が装着者の体へ直接的に働きかけ、聖衣に合わせた体質へと変換させる特性を有しているからだ。言い換えるのならば、冥闘士とは、冥衣を機能させるための触媒であり、冥衣に着られているということもできる。この装着者の肉体を変化させる特性は、時として、パピヨンのミューのように装着者を人ならざる者に変化させることもあるようだ。
瞬時に黄金聖闘士に匹敵する戦士を百八人も生み出す冥王の恐るべき奸計は、それだけにとどまらない。地上のハーデス城の周囲に結界を張ることで、聖闘士の力を抑制し、確実に勝利するための布陣を張っていたのだ。この結界内ならば、たとえ黄金聖闘士であっても、冥闘士の敵ではないのだ。ラダマンティスに対して一矢も報いることなく3人の黄金聖闘士が生きながら地獄へと落とされたのは、至極当然の結果と言えよう。
冥闘士の上位に位置するふたりの神、ヒュプノスとタナトスが冥闘士を捨て駒程度に見下しているのは、冥衣によって作られる冥闘士の素性を知っているからであった。彼らにしてみれば、冥闘士が全滅しても、再度、魔星に選ばれた者に冥衣を与えれば、戦力を無限に補充できるのである。
また、 いざとなれば、自分たちが出向くことで、すべての問題を解決できるという絶対の自信があったことも少なからず影響している。
▲冥闘士の魂を封じ込めた巨大な塔は、五老峰の西方、およそ千キロの地点にある秘境に存在する。
冥王の統治する冥界、すなわち地獄には、第二獄のケルベロスのように、神話の時代より伝えられる魔物、怪物たちが今日においても生き長らえている。
結界によって、命あるものすべてを絶するハーデス城。地上で唯一冥界への入り口がある場所。
冥王の肉体が眠る神殿
冥王は、自分の美しい肉体に傷がつくのを極端に恐れており、魂を分離させた後は、肉体をエリシオンの奥にある神殿の中に安置している。
冥王に仕える二人の神
冥界の軍団は、実質的には冥王を含め、この双子の神とのわずか3人から成り立っており、その戦力は一軍にも匹敵する。
In Portuguese:
Hades e os Specters
Na Guerra Santa Anterior, malignos guerreiros atormentaram os Saints de Athena - eles são os Specters!
O Imperador das Trevas Hades e seu exército foram selados há 243 anos. No fim da violenta Guerra Santa Anterior contra os Specters, muitos Saints perderam suas vidas em batalha e pelo que se sabe somente 2 Saints de Ouro sobreviveram...
Os Guerreiros de Hades vestem protetores de azeviche chamados de Surplices.
Como mencionado anteriormente, a vida não é eterna, mesmo para um Saint, mas em relação ao exército de Hades essa regra não se aplica. Hades governa o Submundo, a terra dos mortos, e por isso pode conceder um corpo para os habitantes da sua região. Para o exército de Hades o conceito de morte não existe e por isso são tão destemidos nas batalhas.
O Submundo governado por Hades é um mundo inatingível pelo poder dos outros deuses, inclusive Athena. Somente aqueles que foram autorizados pelo Imperador das Trevas podem agir livremente, ou seja, apenas como Specters. Portanto, sem ser atacado por outras forças, orgulhavam-se da proteção intransponível que impedia a invasão de outras forças desde a Era Mitológica (no entanto, nesta Guerra Santa, o Cavaleiro de Ouro Shaka de Virgo encontrou uma maneira de invadir o Submundo manifestando o alaya-vijnana).
Na Guerra Santa Anterior, os Saints de Athena usaram todas as suas forças para selar o exército de Hades na Torre dos Selos. Contudo, esse selo não era completamente perfeito e era evidente que chegaria o dia em que perderia seu efeito.
Então, Dohko de Libra, um dos 2 Saints de Ouro que sobreviveram, recebeu da Athena antecessora um processo secreto dos deuses: a Lei da Morte Aparente, ficando em Wulaofeng monitorando a Torre dos Selos.
O caos contínuo com a rebelião de Saga de Gemini, seguida pelo despertar do Imperador do Mar Poseidon, enfraqueceram a eficácia dos selos de Atena, culminando no dia que os selos foram desfeitos.
As 108 Estrelas Malignas que estavam seladas na Torre dos Selos se espalharam pelo mundo, despertando as almas dos escolhidos como Specters.
Para aquele que recupera sua alma como um Specter, é dado um protetor chamado Surplice. O Surplice, como o nome sugere, é a proteção que o Specter veste e possui o característico brilho do azeviche. Equipado com essa Surplice, ele pode livremente ir e vir entre o Submundo e a superfície terrestre sem precisar despertar um Cosmo particularmente alto.
Além disso, por ser uma escolha da Estrela Maligna, o usuário do Surplice não necessita de um treinamento transcendental como os Saints ou possuir talento natural como um Marina. Isso é, para quem é selecionado por uma Estrela Maligna, a vestimenta atua diretamente no corpo do portador, pois tem a peculiaridade de transformar sua forma física em algo que combine com o Surplice*. Em outras palavras, o Specter, para ser capaz de vestir o Surplice, deve possuir o efeito catalisador das atribuições do Surplice. Essa característica especial de transformação do corpo do usuário, em alguns casos, pode transformá-lo em algo não humano, como aconteceu com o Myu de Papillon.
*No original japonês está escrito Cloth.
O terrível plano do Imperador das Trevas não para na criação instantânea de 108 guerreiros comparáveis aos Saints de Ouro. Ao espalhar uma barreira nos arredores do Castelo de Hades na Terra, que restringe o poder dos Saints, ele preparou um campo de guerra para a vitória certa. Dentro dessa barreira nem mesmo os Saints de Ouro são oponentes para os Specters. Por isso é compreensível que Radamanthys tenha jogado 3 Saints de Ouro vivos no inferno sem que eles pudessem revidar um único golpe.
Hypnos e Thanatos, dois deuses superiores aos Specters, desprezam os Specters como se fossem buchas de canhão, pois sabem que os Specters nascem das Surplices. Para eles, mesmo que todos os Specters sejam eliminados, suas tropas podem ser repostas infinitamente, pois os Surplices podem ser dados a outros que são eleitos pelas Estrelas Malignas. Além disso, ambos tinham confiança absoluta de que poderiam resolver todos os problemas, caso fosse necessário.
A enorme torre que confinava a alma dos Specters fica cerca de 1 mil quilômetros de distância a oeste de Wulaofeng, numa região inexplorada.
No submundo governado pelo Imperador das Trevas, ou seja, no inferno, vivem muitos monstros como o Cérbero da Segunda Prisão, um demônio da Era Mitológica.
O Castelo de Hades, onde todas as coisas vivas são isoladas pela barreira. Único local na Terra onde há uma entrada para o Submundo.
Os dois deuses que servem Hades
O exército do submundo consiste basicamente de apenas 3 pessoas: os dois deuses gêmeos e Hades. A força deles é equiparável a de um exército inteiro.
O Templo onde dorme o corpo do Imperador das Trevas
Hades, com receio de que seu belo corpo fosse ferido, depois de separá-lo de sua alma, escondeu no Templo que fica no interior Elísios.
Na Guerra Santa Anterior, malignos guerreiros atormentaram os Saints de Athena - eles são os Specters!
O Imperador das Trevas Hades e seu exército foram selados há 243 anos. No fim da violenta Guerra Santa Anterior contra os Specters, muitos Saints perderam suas vidas em batalha e pelo que se sabe somente 2 Saints de Ouro sobreviveram...
Os Guerreiros de Hades vestem protetores de azeviche chamados de Surplices.
Como mencionado anteriormente, a vida não é eterna, mesmo para um Saint, mas em relação ao exército de Hades essa regra não se aplica. Hades governa o Submundo, a terra dos mortos, e por isso pode conceder um corpo para os habitantes da sua região. Para o exército de Hades o conceito de morte não existe e por isso são tão destemidos nas batalhas.
O Submundo governado por Hades é um mundo inatingível pelo poder dos outros deuses, inclusive Athena. Somente aqueles que foram autorizados pelo Imperador das Trevas podem agir livremente, ou seja, apenas como Specters. Portanto, sem ser atacado por outras forças, orgulhavam-se da proteção intransponível que impedia a invasão de outras forças desde a Era Mitológica (no entanto, nesta Guerra Santa, o Cavaleiro de Ouro Shaka de Virgo encontrou uma maneira de invadir o Submundo manifestando o alaya-vijnana).
Na Guerra Santa Anterior, os Saints de Athena usaram todas as suas forças para selar o exército de Hades na Torre dos Selos. Contudo, esse selo não era completamente perfeito e era evidente que chegaria o dia em que perderia seu efeito.
Então, Dohko de Libra, um dos 2 Saints de Ouro que sobreviveram, recebeu da Athena antecessora um processo secreto dos deuses: a Lei da Morte Aparente, ficando em Wulaofeng monitorando a Torre dos Selos.
O caos contínuo com a rebelião de Saga de Gemini, seguida pelo despertar do Imperador do Mar Poseidon, enfraqueceram a eficácia dos selos de Atena, culminando no dia que os selos foram desfeitos.
As 108 Estrelas Malignas que estavam seladas na Torre dos Selos se espalharam pelo mundo, despertando as almas dos escolhidos como Specters.
Para aquele que recupera sua alma como um Specter, é dado um protetor chamado Surplice. O Surplice, como o nome sugere, é a proteção que o Specter veste e possui o característico brilho do azeviche. Equipado com essa Surplice, ele pode livremente ir e vir entre o Submundo e a superfície terrestre sem precisar despertar um Cosmo particularmente alto.
Além disso, por ser uma escolha da Estrela Maligna, o usuário do Surplice não necessita de um treinamento transcendental como os Saints ou possuir talento natural como um Marina. Isso é, para quem é selecionado por uma Estrela Maligna, a vestimenta atua diretamente no corpo do portador, pois tem a peculiaridade de transformar sua forma física em algo que combine com o Surplice*. Em outras palavras, o Specter, para ser capaz de vestir o Surplice, deve possuir o efeito catalisador das atribuições do Surplice. Essa característica especial de transformação do corpo do usuário, em alguns casos, pode transformá-lo em algo não humano, como aconteceu com o Myu de Papillon.
*No original japonês está escrito Cloth.
O terrível plano do Imperador das Trevas não para na criação instantânea de 108 guerreiros comparáveis aos Saints de Ouro. Ao espalhar uma barreira nos arredores do Castelo de Hades na Terra, que restringe o poder dos Saints, ele preparou um campo de guerra para a vitória certa. Dentro dessa barreira nem mesmo os Saints de Ouro são oponentes para os Specters. Por isso é compreensível que Radamanthys tenha jogado 3 Saints de Ouro vivos no inferno sem que eles pudessem revidar um único golpe.
Hypnos e Thanatos, dois deuses superiores aos Specters, desprezam os Specters como se fossem buchas de canhão, pois sabem que os Specters nascem das Surplices. Para eles, mesmo que todos os Specters sejam eliminados, suas tropas podem ser repostas infinitamente, pois os Surplices podem ser dados a outros que são eleitos pelas Estrelas Malignas. Além disso, ambos tinham confiança absoluta de que poderiam resolver todos os problemas, caso fosse necessário.
A enorme torre que confinava a alma dos Specters fica cerca de 1 mil quilômetros de distância a oeste de Wulaofeng, numa região inexplorada.
No submundo governado pelo Imperador das Trevas, ou seja, no inferno, vivem muitos monstros como o Cérbero da Segunda Prisão, um demônio da Era Mitológica.
O Castelo de Hades, onde todas as coisas vivas são isoladas pela barreira. Único local na Terra onde há uma entrada para o Submundo.
Os dois deuses que servem Hades
O exército do submundo consiste basicamente de apenas 3 pessoas: os dois deuses gêmeos e Hades. A força deles é equiparável a de um exército inteiro.
O Templo onde dorme o corpo do Imperador das Trevas
Hades, com receio de que seu belo corpo fosse ferido, depois de separá-lo de sua alma, escondeu no Templo que fica no interior Elísios.
It's interesting how well explained the concept of the Specters is, which makes you wonder how Shiori could get it so wrong in TLC.
Specters are not sealed souls or reincarnations, they are only humans who were chosen by the Evil Stars, who awakened in their soul the knowledge and power of the Specters. In short, it is the Evil Stars and the Surplice that give the Specters their power.
In the Tower they never sealed souls and only sealed the Evil Stars.
Also, this confirms why Athena and the Saints don't just destroy the souls (or the silly concept of TLC where they seal their souls) of the Specters, as this doesn't matter, since Hades can choose new candidates for the Specters. As it happens in Dark Wing, where they destroyed the Underworld and eliminated many souls and Specters in that place, and Hades only chose new users for the Evil Stars and Surplices.
Taizen:
冥闘士の上位に位置するふたりの神、ヒュプノスとタナトスが冥闘士を捨て駒程度に見下しているのは、冥衣によって作られる冥闘士の素性を知っているからであった。彼らにしてみれば、冥闘士が全滅しても、再度、魔星に選ばれた者に冥衣を与えれば、戦力を無限に補充できるのである。
Hypnos e Thanatos, dois deuses superiores aos Specters, desprezam os Specters como se fossem buchas de canhão, pois sabem que os Specters nascem das Surplices. Para eles, mesmo que todos os Specters sejam eliminados, suas tropas podem ser repostas infinitamente, pois os Surplices podem ser dados a outros que são eleitos pelas Estrelas Malignas.
This also explains what was presented in Next Dimension with Suikyo, where Pandora chose him as Garuda's Specter and gave him the Surplice of Garuda and the Evil Star of Valiance. Because Hades, Hypnos, Thanatos, Ker and Pandora can choose any human to carry the Surplice and the Evil Star, the human does not matter.
This part is interesting.
ハーデスの支配する冥界は、アテナをはじめ、他の神々の力が及ばない世界であり、唯一、冥王からその存在が許された者、つまり冥闘士しか活動することが許されない。そのために他の勢力から攻め込まれることがなく、神話の時代から他の勢力の侵入を阻んできた鉄壁の守りを誇っていたのだ(だが、今度の聖戦では黄金聖闘士・乙女座のシャカは、阿頼耶識を発現させることで冥界に侵攻する手段を見出す)。このため、幾度となく戦いを繰り広げながらもアテナは、その冥界の戦力を根絶やしにすることができなかったのだ。
O Submundo governado por Hades é um mundo inatingível pelo poder dos outros deuses, inclusive Athena. Somente aqueles que foram autorizados pelo Imperador das Trevas podem agir livremente, ou seja, apenas como Specters. Portanto, sem ser atacado por outras forças, orgulhavam-se da proteção intransponível que impedia a invasão de outras forças desde a Era Mitológica (no entanto, nesta Guerra Santa, o Cavaleiro de Ouro Shaka de Virgo encontrou uma maneira de invadir o Submundo manifestando o alaya-vijnana).
The Underworld is described as an unreachable place even for the power of the gods. In the manga, Athena needs to awaken the Eighth Sense (thanks to Shaka's message) to enter the Underworld.
This makes me wonder if the gods have the Eighth Sense, or is this a sense that only humans can awaken. And Athena can only awaken the Eighth Sense, because she is a goddess who reincarnated as a human.
Athena in the past could never invade the Underworld (world of the dead), that's why she could never destroy the body of Hades and end the holy war forever, because the god hid his body in the Elyseum. This means that Athena with only the power she possesses as a goddess could never enter the Underworld (a place unreachable even for the power of the gods), and she needed to awaken the Eighth Sense to enter that place.
In Kurumada's manga it is never mentioned that the gods awaken any sense, they are beings of great power because they are gods, they do not need to awaken any sense to obtain their powers, because they are born as beings superior to humans. The concept of senses was always something exclusive to humans.
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The Taizen and Hypermyth have some contradiction to the manga and the manga take precedence over databooks
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Speaking of the Eighth Sense, it is interesting to see that Asclepius, the only character of that era who probably awakened that sense (a knowledge he did not give to others like Shaka), can interfere in the Underworld and even resurrect Odysseus after his death. A power that not even the gods possess (only Hades, who is the creator and dominates the world of the dead).
Asclepius also has the power to see the future (he knows all the movements of the universe), a knowledge that the gods do not possess. And the Gold Saints who mastered the Eighth Sense are currently an existence that transcends space and time.
Some of Asclepius' abilities are probably due to the fact that he had mastered or was close to mastering the Eighth Sense.
Also like the Gold Saints, Asclepius transcends life and death (he can move freely in the world of the dead and in the world of the living), this could explain why the gods and Athena could not destroy him and only trapped him in Tartarus, because they cannot destroy him. The Gold Saints, who master the Eighth Sense, have a more impressive immortality than the gods, that's why they were able to return even when their soul and body were completely eliminated.
Asclepius as a human is weaker than the gods in terms of power (as the Pope mentions), but in terms of abilities he is far more impressive than several gods in this franchise (even gods of the Olympian level).
The concept of the Specters described in the Taizen, is the same that Kurumada uses for his manga, he even confirms it in ND where he shows that the Specters are not reincarnations (many have a different appearance and different names), and we could also see that the Specters can be chosen by Pandora, who decides which human will receive the Surplice and the Evil Star, even if that human is a Saint, as described in the Taizen. And this concept is also introduced in this way in Dark Wing, a more recent manga in the franchise that uses the new information from Kurumada's works.
The Underworld or world of the dead as a place unreachable even for the gods is presented in the manga, where Athena was never able to enter the Underworld and therefore the holy war continued until the present, where the Saints and Athena (thanks to the Eighth Sense) were able to enter the Underworld and destroy Hades forever, ending the cycle of the holy war forever.
Athena only awakened the Eighth Sense in the Hades Arc (after being killed by the Sword of Chrysus), after Shaka revealed the secret of this sense with the message he sent through the petals.
Asclepius also has the power to see the future (he knows all the movements of the universe), a knowledge that the gods do not possess. And the Gold Saints who mastered the Eighth Sense are currently an existence that transcends space and time.
Some of Asclepius' abilities are probably due to the fact that he had mastered or was close to mastering the Eighth Sense.
Also like the Gold Saints, Asclepius transcends life and death (he can move freely in the world of the dead and in the world of the living), this could explain why the gods and Athena could not destroy him and only trapped him in Tartarus, because they cannot destroy him. The Gold Saints, who master the Eighth Sense, have a more impressive immortality than the gods, that's why they were able to return even when their soul and body were completely eliminated.
Asclepius as a human is weaker than the gods in terms of power (as the Pope mentions), but in terms of abilities he is far more impressive than several gods in this franchise (even gods of the Olympian level).
Taizen was a work supervised by Kurumada, it is even mentioned in the pages of this work. The Hypermith was never a work supervised by Kurumada, and the information from that work has no relevance to the author's manga.
The concept of the Specters described in the Taizen, is the same that Kurumada uses for his manga, he even confirms it in ND where he shows that the Specters are not reincarnations (many have a different appearance and different names), and we could also see that the Specters can be chosen by Pandora, who decides which human will receive the Surplice and the Evil Star, even if that human is a Saint, as described in the Taizen. And this concept is also introduced in this way in Dark Wing, a more recent manga in the franchise that uses the new information from Kurumada's works.
The Underworld or world of the dead as a place unreachable even for the gods is presented in the manga, where Athena was never able to enter the Underworld and therefore the holy war continued until the present, where the Saints and Athena (thanks to the Eighth Sense) were able to enter the Underworld and destroy Hades forever, ending the cycle of the holy war forever.
Athena only awakened the Eighth Sense in the Hades Arc (after being killed by the Sword of Chrysus), after Shaka revealed the secret of this sense with the message he sent through the petals.
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