Hasty12345
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when you cbf'd redoing it
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Saint Seiya Discussion Thread (IV)
- Thread starter TheUnshakableOne
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- saint seiya
Hasty12345
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make a CRT after the current CRT is finished
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Seiya never perma killed Thanatos.
Hasty12345
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if by "being around" you mean lingering in the ruins of a collapsing UW as a "ghost" after Athena destroyed his body and soul then sure. and yes, GA is canon
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Yes. I’m still confused on how he’s a soulless ghost,
Hasty12345
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it's explained when Aiolos kills Zeus in the LW timeline that gods cannot die and even when their bodies and souls are destroyed they fall into some sort of sleep state.
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Thanatos is dead in the main universe and was killed by Seiya with God Cloth, so he was killed by someone using something equivalent to a sacred treasure.
The immortality of the gods has to be updated.
All Saint Seiya series are canon, the problem is that they are not the same universe and the story is different between universe.
Assassin is a different timeline or universe, even characters that are dead in the main universe are alive without any explanation in that world (for example, Radamanthys, Shion and Kanon are alive, even though Rada's death is confirmed in the original manga, since the bead on the rosary changed color). In that universe, Athena only destroys the god's body without harming his soul, that's why we saw that Hades' soul still exists.
It is never mentioned that Athena destroyed his body and soul in that world. And we only saw that Hades does not have a physical body, therefore, Athena only destroys the god's body. Also, the Underworld still exists in that world, unlike in the original manga where that whole dimension disappeared without a trace. In the main universe, Athena destroys the body and soul of the god with her sacred treasure (which in the main universe are weapons to kill gods, we can even see how the god disappears without leaving any trace), so he disappears forever.
Aiolos never destroyed his soul completely (souls in this universe endure a lot of damage and do not disappear, even in the Underworld they are damaged and torn in various ways), he only damaged the god, and the immortality of that version of Zeus is really mediocre, because even the destruction of his avatar prevented the god from returning and he could only come back thanks to the power of the black core that brought Aiolia back.
I am working on Shoko's profile.
Lancelot de Cancer/Sandbox
vsbattles.fandom.com
It is a Dress, not a God Cloth.
It is never mentioned that Shoko awakened the Eighth Sense.
Shoko could resist the effect of the Superdimension, because she has the divine protection of Artemis' cosmos in the Lunar Hagoromo and the last chapters reveal that she has the blood of Eris. But she cannot enter the world of the dead of Hades.
The first Saint to discover the Eighth Sense and understand its power was Shaka, who revealed this secret to the other Saints and Athena. And probably Asclepius was also capable of awakening this sense, but he never revealed this information to the other Saints and Athena.
Or updated.
I could update those pages, but first I want to work on updating the Saintia Sho pages.
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That’s what I meant
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- Thread starter
- #334
twice lol
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By who?
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- #336
Aiolos in the lost world
Seiya again in the "correct" world
Though it should be noted that Zeus says himself that he defeated many different variations of Seiya's in other worlds too.
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Does this scale?
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in my opinion, it should.
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i will now throw him against SMT 2-As.
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Demi-Fiend. Zeus, Aiolos, and Seiya all get thrown against the Tier 2 meatgrinder.
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- #343
Only Zeus is 2-A atm.
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The other universe's version of Zeus was defeated by Aiolos (Lost World) and Shura. Seiya did not defeat this version of the god.
It will probably even receive a downgrade in the future, because it has no feats of that level. And this is a version of Zeus from another universe with unknown power and his feats are not impressive, even his best feat is only 5-C. Although this version of Zeus was only a god in a human body, which was not in full control of his body, and he is not wearing his armor and sacred treasures, therefore, it is likely that he was weaker than Poseidon at the end of his arc.
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when all of them get upgraded (possibly) they're getting yeeted against the half demon
not as a spite match i want to see how they do.
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Episode.G Requiem chapter 16
mangacross.jp
Shura (protagonist) of Assassin returns.
聖闘士星矢EPISODE.Gレクイエム
聖闘士星矢EPISODE.Gレクイエム by チャンピオンクロス。地上が絶望に覆われてゆく…。陥落する聖域を前に、射手座の黄金聖闘士を継承した星矢は、アテナ神殿に囚われたアテナ沙織を救出するために、最大最後の闘いに挑む!「EPISODE.G」シリーズ、衝撃の最終章が開幕!!
mangacross.jp
Shura (protagonist) of Assassin returns.
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Oh boi.. I wonder what plot Manipulation brought him back 
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private message me here on discord and i'll help when i can
my wireless high speed data ran out and i work long shifts during the weekdays so my response times maybe inconsistent.
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what's your discord tag?
Hasty12345
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blatantly false.
Aiolos stalemated an Athena Exclamation by 3 "transcendent saints" with an "incomplete 9th sense". Zeus not only was directly stated by Aiolos to have a "great 9th sense", but also awoke his dunamis which was passively erasing existence within a short range of himself. This Zeus is at-least low 2-C. Not to mention he no sold the UW pre-9th sense.......
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The Athena Exclamation is only an attack with the power of three Gold Saints, a Shura weakened by his fight with Chakravartin, a Saga who cannot maintain his physical form and the only one in good condition is Deathmask. An insignificant power for a god, only the power of the 12 Gold Saints together is superior to a god such as Athena, Hades and Poseidon, even gods like Hypnos, Thanatos and Ker are much more powerful than that, that's why Thanatos defeats the five protagonists with ease.
Also, I just mentioned that this version of Zeus has no impressive feats in the story. Although by powerscaling it is probably 2-C.
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Hasty12345
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that rivals the big bang which is low 2-C.
Nothing here changes the fact the technique itself is low 2-C.
Aiolos is not a god and he needed his incomplete 9th sense to rival the Athena Exclamation which was stated on the same panel to have power to destroy the universe. And Zeus (even in Aiolia's body) massively out scales Aiolos at that point, even Aiolos needed Athena's low 2-C to 2-C cosmo to kill Zeus with the sagi arrow.
9th sense Zues pre-dunamis also fought on par with a fully awakened adult Julian who is low 2-C via massively out scaling any gold saint (who are 3-C to low 2-C).
To say Zeus is only 5-C, even when he scales above the like of the legendary bronzes who should scale to the average gold is at least solar system....
Heck, Hyoga didn't even feel the need to use his gold cloth against a god cloth Camus (which we know requires infinite comso to activate), he only put his gauntlet iirc (ik he ended up getting help, i'M NOT CLAIMING he scales to god cloth Camus on his own, but he was confident during the confrontation).
Not to mention Zeus' dunamis should scale to literally any of the titans dunaii, in which they could create universes.
Furthermore, Shura is not an outlier as his Excalibur was compared to the sword of Hades, which we know from classic should be comparable to Zeus' lightining (which Zeus literally holds as Aiolia).
5-C is a joke.
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One problem with this is that Okada changed the description of the techniques in Assassin. Now the Athena Exclamation is not described as a technique comparable to big bang (in scale) and is only described as a technique capable of tearing the universe apart to create a small portal that the Saints used to return to the world of the living.
He even changed the description of the Galaxian Explosion in his manga, and now it is much less impressive. It is described as the technique that destroys the worlds of the galaxy.
The description of the big bang could place this technique as 3-A or 2-C. But Assassin doesn't have that description, which is why I mentioned that it was based on the character's feats in his manga. Although this version of Zeus by powerscaling is probably 2-C.
It is a version of Athena from a different universe, and some of the authors of these manga represent Athena as very weak, for example in TLC even the goddess has trouble fighting a human using a fraction of the power of a god like Hades, contrary to the version of Kurumada's universe, where Athena is described as comparable in power to these gods, she is even much more powerful than a god like Poseidon in a human body and using his armor and sacred treasures.
It is never mentioned that Poseidon was fully awakened, and a fully awakened Poseidon was defeated by Seiya, Shiryu and Hyoga, and the god further increases his power when amplified by fury, after Seiya challenged him and destroyed the Mainstay. Zeus never fights against Poseidon in Assassin, and Poseidon should be much more powerful for using his armor and sacred treasure. This version of Zeus did not control his human body 100%, he did not use his armor and sacred treasure like Poseidon in his Arc.
The Gold Cloths of the Aiolos universe in Assassin were always transformed into a God Cloth, therefore, Camus never awakened that armor with his own power and is only a Gold Saint who is wearing a higher level armor. Even Hyoga with his absolute zero attacks was fighting against Camus, and they had to combine the cosmos of Camus, Isaac and Hyoga to reach a temperature lower than absolute zero. Hyoga with God Cloth is so powerful that he reaches a temperature hundreds of times colder than absolute zero, so he is hundreds of times more powerful than Camus, Hyoga and Isaack from Assassin. The protagonists at the end of the Hades arc were far more powerful than any other version of these characters.
It only mentions that that was Zeus' best feat in this manga was 5-C, it never mentions that it was only 5-C, when powerscaling can grant him a better level than that.
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Hasty12345
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No, the Athena Exclamation is the same in all timelines, a technique comparable to the big bang comparable of destroying (or in Okada's words "tearing") the universe apart. And creating a hole through the UW defying Hades' will and escaping death is not an anti-feat.
which is frankly wrong. When Okada is non-specific, we default to the classic for clarification. Okada saying the AE can tear the universe apart is consistent with Kuru's (as well as every other description of the technique) description.
Same Hades tanked a nigh-big bang from Tenma, literally implying in the same panel Gods can easily replicate Big Bang levels of energy.
Which, we know they can from, classic as Thanatos no sold the gold cloths which tanked the combined explosion of 2 clashing AE's, and literally every other work in Saint Seiya using the "big bang" as a type of bench mark for even the weakest Gods.
Also forgetting, Athena is only inconsistent because her human incarnations are dumb af, they don't retain the knowledge of ancient Athena (Athena prior to limiting herself to human reincarnations), Saori, Sasha, Yoshino, they all need to learn how to use their abilities as Athena, hence why you can have an Athena as shown in classic reach her near full potential, as opposed to Sasha who's a bozo.
A super super weakened literally nigh-dead clothless Saga saying his technique is can destroy "worlds" is not a "downgrade".....
Zeus' sacred treasure is his lightning as explained in G, Aiolia is the wielder of such treasure, Zeus makes a note of this when he takes over Aiolia iirc, so he is using his divine weapon.
The cloth was awakened after he was amped by Aiolos. THAT DOES NOT change the fact it requires infinite cosmo to activate. Just like Athena helped Seiya, Aiolos helped Camus ( and Zeus scaling above that Aiolos via having a stronger 9th sense and having multiple statements of casually throwing infinite energy and having above statements of above infinite power is even more evidence he's above 5-C).
Which also isn't true, he did destroy what was left of the UW, a 2-C structure.
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Okada changed the description of the technique in this manga. And it only tears the universe apart, because it opens a small portal, this does not mean that the technique has the power to destroy the universe. It is an anti-fact, because tearing space-time to open a small portal is not as impressive as a power comparable to a big bang.
It's just an internal big bang by the description of the cosmos as a mini-universe inside them, which they exploit to use their attacks and burn their cosmos. Only the Athena Exclamation is described as comparable to the big bang that created the universe, and this is the Gold Saints' super attack of three Gold Saints.
Tenma never attacks with a power comparable to a big bang, he just exploded his cosmos like an internal big bang. This similar to Seiya attacking Aldebaran with an attack named as a big bang, but this does not mean that Seiya has the power of the Athena Exclamation, as this attack went on to disintegrate Shaka.
The Virgo Cloth and Shaka were completely disintegrated by the Exclamation of Athena, and the six Gold Saints did not receive a direct hit from the power of the Athena Exclamation, because Shiryu disperses that attack.
That is why I mentioned that Athena's level is different in the different universes and reincarnations of the goddess, therefore, it is impossible to obtain consistent powerscaling with Athena.
In addition, Saintia Sho is mentioned that Saori has the potential to surpass even the power of the mythological Athena.
He has the power to participate in an Athena Exclamation and was also stopping and resisting some of Aiolos' attacks.
The new description of the technique is unimpressive compared to the original description.
It was never described as a Sacred Treasure and is a weaker weapon than the Sacred Treasures of Athena, Hades and Poseidon. Zeus in the main universe probably has a Sacred Treasure on the level of the weapons used by Athena, Hades and Poseidon, even in the Taizen sketch he appears with a spear.
No, the Cloth appears in the form of God Cloth to cover Camus' body, it never transforms this armor, something that also happened with Lancelot who was even wounded and defeated on the ground when Tomoe gives him the God Cloth. Seiya is pathetic as a God Saint in this manga, because Athena transformed his armor, even weaker than a Gold Saint. Camus, Lancelot and Seiya never raised their cosmos to infinity, like Seiya and company in the Hades Arc, where they were as powerful as Hypnos and Thanatos (they are even infinitely more powerful than in the Poseidon Arc, where they fought against Poseidon with his armor and sacred treasure), and could fight Hades with their divine body, armor and sacred treasure. The God Cloth in this manga were just a gift, like Seiya wearing the Gold Cloth of Sagittarius the first time, his comos is amplified to a higher level than a Silver Saint by wearing a higher rank armor, but it was not equal in power to a true Gold Saint.
The Ninth Sense does not exist in the main universe, therefore it is impossible to define the power of this sense, by feats Aiolos even seems weaker than Seiya at the end of the Poseidon Arc.
No, it only destroys the surface of the world/planet of Aiolos and kills humanity (with the exception of Aiolos and Saga).
As I said this god's feats are not so impressive in his manga, although by powerscaling he is probably 2-C.
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Hasty12345
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Okada cannot retcon or change the concepts Kurumada writes. Kururmada is the main author of the franchise, his word holds more weight than Okada's. Okada cannot change the definition of Athena Exclamation and his statement of "tearing the universe apart" is synonymous with destroying it which si consistent with what Kurumada wrote and therefore is the better interpretation of the statement as yours is inconsistent with the classic manga written by Kurumada.
Athena Exclamation has never shown spatial manipulation in the original manga, only the Gemini Saint has that power through Another Dimension. No other Saint, not even Aiolos who's equal to Saga has showed spatial manipulation.
The Gold Saint trio only tore a hole in the boundary between life and death, which we know from classic is Yomotsu Hirasaka, because it's the power to destroy the universe concentrated on a single point. Okada cannot retcon Kurumada, we know in the original manga that the boundary between life and death is Yomotsu Hirasaka, so the Gold Saints must have tore a hole in it.
No, this is also incorrect and head canon assumptions. The 7th sense was stated multiple times to be able to unleash miracles on par with the Big Bang, Seiya does this upon awakening his 7th sense, Kurumada showed this in the classic manga when Seiya awoke his 7th sense.
The Athena Exclamation is a technique which allows Gold Saints to create Big Bangs without the need for miracles, as not all Saints can pop miracles like candy. This is shown many many times. Seiya is some kind of miracle outlier, even Aiolia, the main character of G wasn't capable of spamming miracles like candy.
No. Even in the original manga written by Kurumada who's words are more important than Okada's, God cloths require infinite cosmos to burn in-order to activate. No amount of head canon can change that. There's no practical difference between me saying Camus and Seiya were aided, and you saying they were given God Cloths. One way or another, someone burned their cosmo to infinity to awaken the cloth, where it be Aiolos, Athena or Seiya + Athena or Aiolos +Camus. Infinite cosmo was exchanged somewhere, it's written in the original manga by Kurumada and Okada cannot retcon Kurumada, Kurumada is the primary author of the series.
No that is wrong. Okada gives us a direct quantification by comparing a weak 9th sense to the Athena Exclamation which is at the level of the Big Bang. This makes sense as all gods who have presumably mastered the 9th sense (even if you say it doesn't exist in the main series it's power is still consistent with Kurumada's work) are well above this level as shown when the gold cloths survived a clash of 2 Athena Exclamations whereas Thanatos easily destroyed 5 gold cloths where the golds couldn't even destroy 3 with a couple of Surplices.
7th sense humans via miracles = incomplete 9th sense = Big Bang < mastered 9th sense < Dunamis (which is where the gods are at)
Okada's scale is consistent to Kurumada's, even believing 9th sense and dunamis don't exist in Kurumada's work (which is an opinion you're entitled too), feats of a low god like Thanatos show Okada's scaling is consistent. The 9th sense is a power creep between that between a 7th sense miracle and a low god - which Aiolos is portrayed as at the level of.
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I feel like I heard this argument before from somewhere but from someone else 
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Okada changed many descriptions from the original manga and also added new concepts. In this case he changed the description of the Athena Exclamation.
Athena created a distortion in space and time when she created the path to Olympus. Athena also teleports Seiya and company away from the Underworld at the end of the battle. This is not impressive for the power of the goddess. Shaka also has that power.
It never mentions that the technique has the power to destroy the universe or even the power of a big bang in this universe. It is only described that this technique has the power to cause a small rift that the Gold Saints used to return to the world of the living.
It is just an internal big bang because of the symbolism of the cosmos as a mini-universe. Even Aldebaran easily stops Seiya's attack described as a big bang with one hand, and Aldebaran does not have the power of an Athena Exclamation.
The Asssassin universe is its own universe and Okada has invented new concepts and changed others from the original manga.
A concept introduced in a different way in this manga, where the characters never mentioned that they raised their cosmos to infinity. We also saw how the Gold Cloth of that universe are always in the form of a God Cloth, so they don't have to raise their cosmos to awaken these armors. That's why none of them show the power of a true God Saint, or the power that Seiya and company showed at the end of the Hades Arc. Even Camus, Lancelot and Seiya in this manga are much weaker than Seiya and company at the end of the Poseidon Arc, and they are infinitely more powerful at the end of the Hades Arc than in the Poseidon Arc.
The Athena Exclamation is never described with the power of a big bang in this manga. The Virgo Cloth and Shaka were completely disintegrated by the Athena Exclamation. As I explained, Saga and company were never hit by the full power of the Athena Exclamation, because Shiryu disperses the attack.
If destroying or damaging a Gold Cloth was impressive, even Niobe destroys Taurus' Gold Cloth after killing him, and Suikyo half dead damaged Libra's Gold Cloth and a Dohko (novice) overcame the power of that attack. This does not indicate that these characters have the power of the Athena Exclamation. Also, if destroying a Gold Cloth completely is impressive, no character in Okada's work destroys five Gold Cloth like Thanatos in the original manga, so they are all weaker than this god.
The impressive thing about Thanatos' feat is that he destroyed the Gold Cloth and defeated Seiya and company with one attack, and then we saw how Hypnos was able to defeat Shun with God Cloth, so the gods were comparable to the God Saints. Hypnos and Thanatos (as two of the most powerful gods in this franchise, only surpassed by Chronos and the Olympians in their true bodies, with their armor and sacred treasures) are much more powerful than Aiolos.
The concept of the Ninth Sense was never mentioned in the original manga and Kurumada based this idea of the senses on the Eight Consciousnesses .
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