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Sailor Moon vs Asriel Dreemurr: A very slight variation on a Stomp Match I did months ago. What could go wrong?

TheArsenal1212 said:
Sorry to be a downer, it's just how the system here works
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Don't worry mate. I'm not too bothered either way this match goes, since I absolutely love both Sailor Moon and Asriel Dreemurr. I'm just trying to think of how to not make this an incon at this point. XD
 
Jimboydejuan12 said:
dude it's broke Rules Thread whatever used FRA in somewhere Thread right now.
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Look, I've seen what people have said about your posts on here. I hate to be rude, but could you please put some effort into making your text legible? I'm not one to usually complain about grammar, but I literally cannot tell what you are trying to say right now, and if this kind of intelligible writing keeps up I don't think I could consider your vote reliable. If you're not able to read your own messages, how can I expect you to have read Asriel's and Sailor Moon's pages in detail?
 
Schnee One said:
Anyways

If SM leads with Erasure she wins

If not, she loses
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Yeah. Again, I'm not going to vote on this since I'm the creator of the match and that would be rude, but if I had to vote for one or the other I would have to go with Sailor Moon, purely because she would almost certainly lead with erasure while Asriel might play around a bit first (he is still a child, after all, and it's made as a point in the game that he is pretty childish).
 
Wait, why is my vote getting taken down? If he dies, or is erased, he can always just reset, then lead with a one shot move.
 
Yeah that's why we're going with incon. They both lead with things that would decimate the other

Not really

Asriels projectiles have a travel time, Moon can think
 
TheArsenal1212 said:
Wait Moon's is thought based ??
Ok then yeah Moon erases
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Are you changing your vote to Sailor Moon then?
 
He can reset after dying. Clearly, loosing his physical body dosn't remove his ability to think, or ability to reset.

And?

Erasure erases the mind body and soul, so he loses the ability to think
 
I have to agree with Schnee here. There is a very big difference between dying and outright not existing, which is what Void Manipulation does.
 
And has sailor moons erasure ever shown to stop reincarnation? If not, there is no reason why he can't reset. Also, who's to say he won't reset at the begining? The only reson he couldn't was because Frisk had greater determination.
 
Yes, Chaos

Chaos has Mid Godly, Asriel doesn't

Adriel needs proof he can come back from having his mind body and soul erased. He can't think without a mind or soul
 
First of all, the burden of proof lies on you. Second, flowey without any souls could come back after death. Photoshop flowey is infinitly supperior to both frisk and flowey, and Asriel is infinitly stronger than Omega flowey. Also, when a monster dies, you can clearly see their soul shattering into a bunch of peices, and they can make the choice to reset or continue after dying, wich mind you kills the mind. (sorry for the pun). There. Evidence. Now, can you prove she can erase minds and souls?
 
No. Textbook Burden of Proof Fallacy.

You were the one who said that Asriel can come back from having his mind, body and soul erased. Not me. Usagi's Erasure has repeatedly been stated to work on that level, and Chaos regenerating from it means she has Mid Godkt regen

Chaos has a feat of surviving it, show me Asriel doing so, and I will concede. Until then, she thinks and he dies.

Also, Asriel being stronger is 100% irrelevant. Strength does not help against Hax.

SMS page even states how her Erasure works
 
To be fair you can LOAD out of complete SOUL destruction.

Undertale being weird SOUL actually means the entire culmination of your existence, mind/body/soul and all
 
Edwardtruong2006 said:
To be fair you can LOAD out of complete SOUL destruction.
Undertale being weird SOUL actually means the entire culmination of your existence, mind/body/soul and all
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Wouldn't Soul Destruction and Void Manipulation have different effects, even in this situation? There is a big difference between the Soul being destroyed and the Soul literally not existing.
 
Chara's SOUL is nuked, gone, dead, nil. No part of them exists anymore partially due to the fact his and Asriel's SOULs got destroyed
 
Edwardtruong2006 said:
Chara's SOUL is nuked, gone, dead, nil. No part of them exists anymore partially due to the fact his and Asriel's SOULs got destroyed
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I'm afraid you're mistaken. Chara's Soul may have been destroyed, but it's quite obvious that they still exist in some way. The page you directed me to even admits this in the weaknesses section, saying that not having a soul shows that they don't have a physical form and that they need to possess a being with determination. If they don't exist in any possible way, how could they possess someone else? They must still exist in some way, meaning that Void Manip would do more to the soul than just destroying it would. We can also even see specifically in Asriel's case that after his soul was destroyed, he managed to possess a flower and became Flowey. So no, when a soul is destroyed they still exist in some way. If they didn't, then Asriel wouldn't have ever become Flowey or become as powerful as they are.
 
Question: What's the difference between destroying a mind/soul and erasing a mind/soul in Undertale terms

Undertale doesn't really make the distinction. AFAIK when your SOUL is gone your mind/soul are destroyed to hell and back with no traces left. That's very comparable to erasure I must say
 
Edwardtruong2006 said:
Question: What's the difference between destroying a mind/soul and erasing a mind/soul in Undertale terms

Undertale doesn't really make the distinction. AFAIK when your SOUL is gone your mind/soul are destroyed to hell and back with no traces left. That's very comparable to erasure I must say
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Again, you've ignored my point here. There IS a trace left. Asriel has his ashes spread on the golden flowers, and the remnants of his soul left possessed the flowers becoming Flowey. If it was truly complete erasure, then what was left to possess the golden flower? You've yet to provide any evidence that there wasn't anything left, and that statement is, as I've shown, contradicted by what we see in game.
 
The fact that Flowey doesnt have a soul proves that there's nothing of that left.

I was wrong about soul being your body tho
 
And that's my point. Sailor Moon doesn't have to erase his soul specifically, she can erase everything. Whatever it was that possessed Flowey would also be erased. Like I've been saying, there's a difference between being destroyed and straight up not existing anymore. Asriel has survived being destroyed through possessing Flowey, and there's no evidence that he could do so if he did not exist in the first place. In fact, the idea is quite contradictory.
 
However the SOUL is everything (besides the body). Flowey states it to be the very culmination of your being. Asriel's body is the one that "possessed" the flower with some force-fed DETERMINATION. Saying that Asriel needs his body to LOAD is ridiculous as it resets time to the point where your body is healed.

As a side-note there's a difference between a SOUL and a soul. A soul is just an essence while your SOUL is the entire culmination your being which can still do shit even after it's been completely destroyed.

"Destroying" a SOUL should be equitable to "Erasing" one due to the fact a SOUL is much more abstract and completely gets destroyed without any traces. In fact "destroying" and "erasing" a SOUL is complete semantics within Undertale.
 
Again, you're still not getting my point. Sailor Moon wouldn't just erase the SOUL with her powers, she could erase everything that exists. Is there determination left over when Asriel dies? Nothing is stopping Sailor Moon from erasing that too. That's how void manip works. If it exists, she can make it not exist with a thought. It doesn't matter what is left over when Asriel dies that possesses Flowey; whether it's a SOUL, if it's determination, or if it's his physical body. Something had to exist in order for it to possess Flowey, and if it exists, Sailor Moon can erase it.
 
I have to agree with Dark here. Nothing on Azzy's Profile suggests being able to survive total existence erasure. If he can I suggest making a CRT about it but right now he doesn't and Moon thinks
 
TheArsenal1212 said:
I have to agree with Dark here. Nothing on Azzy's Profile suggests being able to survive total existence erasure. If he can I suggest making a CRT about it but right now he doesn't and Moon thinks
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By the way, are you still incon? Or have you changed your vote to Sailor Moon?
 
For things Moon can erase

SOUL - Not working. Outlined that above

Body - Ridiculous, Asriel doesn't need a body to LOAD, if he did the entire concept of SAVING and LOADING wouldn't work.

DETERMINATION - DETERMINATION is a power. Not a thing. Moon can't erase powers iirc.

Those are the things Moon is able to erase from Asriel. None of them are perma-killing him.
 
Lemme bring this up.

A human SOUL is able to persist after destruction to be anle to LOAD.

That's all that is nessecary.

If the SOUL LOADs than that completely rewibds time to a point where it the erasure did not happen.

My vote is inconclusive, Moon erases, Asriel LOADS, Moon erases, Asriel LOADS, rinse and repeat for eternity.
 
You're treating DETERMINATION as being far, far more abstract then it really is. The real life concept of determination is pretty abstract, yes. But the way that it is depicted in Undertale makes a very clear point that it is a different thing. It's a physical substance produced by Human souls that Monster souls are not powerful enough to hold. We see this in the Almalgamates. It's even explictly stated that the Amalgamates became so deformed because they were "injected" with determination, and they weren't strong enough to hold it. If it was an abstract entity, then how was it literally injected? There is absolutely nothing that proves it is purely abstract, and plenty of evidence against it. The only connection to abstractness here is that the real life concept of determination is pretty abstract, and even then that doesn't apply because Undertale makes a very specific point that they are two different things. One is essentially an emotion, the other is a physical substance that exists, and void manip should be able to erase any physical substance because it physically exists. Remember, when you die in Undertale and you're brought back by DETERMINATION, that's only after your SOUL is destroyed. We see nothing else damaged in the process.
 
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