Saikou's Circus of the Disquieting: Undertale Edition

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Overlord

The knives, spears, bone, etc. ARE magic. They're magic. They get affected by the same shit that affects monsters. It's no different.

Also "True Pacifist Frisk" is headcanon. It's not stated or implied that Frisk is this super pacifist person, it's just an assumption. Even then Frisk clearly has some bloodlust against Asgore. It's just straight up shown. A truly pacifist Frisk couldn't hurt Undyne. Yet Frisk can still kill Asgore.

 

[Theglassman12]

All the humans in Undertale have strong souls, not in like every verse ever. So again it's pretty specific on the weakness for the monster's weaknesses.

 

[Overlord775]

@Saikou

Magic itself isn't weakened by killing intent, the monster are because muh emotions

True Pacifist Frisk is not headcanon, as that Frisk has went trouht the normal run and is now tryin to save everyone.

True Pacifist run Frisk doesn't fight Asgore, he gets knocked out by Toriel.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Great, my comment was eaten.

Anyways, saying it shortly:

Their consciousness passes on to the object the dust falls in, not in to the dust. This is why Flowey got Asriel's mind when a flower, not his ashes, were injected with DT.

And that is not proof of abstraction. First of all, being a feeling isn't abstraction to begin with. The only way that would be abstraction is if you extend that statement to the stats said feeling are evoked by.

Secondly, I would not assume that if a Worm came out of my intestine and told me "the feeling you get after engorging on your greed, that is me" that it is the embody ment of either greed or the feeling. I'd assume that I smoked too much pot, after which I'd assume it means that the effects of it growing (in power) as I engorge myself (gain LV) causes a feeling. Saying "you know that thing, that's me." can mean "I am the cause of it", not just that "I am that".

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

And monsters are made out of magic. Them being made out of magic is like, the whole reason they're so weak.

Not killing anyone doesn't mean you have a nonexistent killing intent at all. A killing intent can come from self-defense, like in the Asgore fight.

That's not a good reason. Asgore destroying this option didn't make Frisk more bloodlusted.

 

[Paul_Frank]

I agree with Mori about the time stop, and with Risci about most of the other scaling and stuff

 

[Jackythejack]

I agree with glass personally with the scaling

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

@Saikou
Magic itself isn't weakened by killing intent, the monster are because muh emotions

That is a headcanon. Unless you can show proof of that, of course.

True Pacifist Frisk is not headcanon, as that Frisk has went trouht the normal run and is now tryin to save everyone.

It is. The reasonings and feelings behind Frisk are not something you can truly decide.

True Pacifist run Frisk doesn't fight Asgore, he gets knocked out by Toriel.

Helps the argument that Frisk doesn't scale, but true.

 

[Overlord775]

Not killing anyone doesn't mean you have a nonexistent killing intent at all. A killing intent can come from self-defense, like in the Asgore fight.

The monster's weakness requires a strong killing intent, so self-defence wouldn't be enought

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Common sense, monster are weakened by a thing an object wouldn't have

You did not explain the example I gave to this. Papyrus' bones are objects, not magic he conjures out of thin air. He throws said magic bones and they are still unable to kill Frisk.

because throwing a knife is more effective than using a spell if your magic is reduced to nigh-zero

And yet Papyrus' thrown bones are subject to that. I don't see why knives wouldn't be.

saying Papyrus' bone are 10-C when he has a 9-C bone via size alone is even more wrong.

Good thing I'm not saying that then, ain't it? I'm saying the bones are 9-C (probably) but they are weakened by intent.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Ricsi please stop quoting like that.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Ricsi please stop quoting like that.

Corrected it.

 

[Overlord775]

IMO the weakness against Killing Intent is shown only even shown in the Genocide route, where Frisk one shots everything

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Even though it blatantly applies, as a totally not bloodlusted Frisk couldn't hurt Undyne outside of 1 HP, yet Frisk can still effectively fight Undyne in other circumstances.

 

[Lord_JJJ]

You know the 1 HP attack is fake hit right?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Only if you do that in the ACT option. Actually attacking for real still results in 1 HP.

 

[Overlord775]

or it could be a showing of personality for Frisk to still go for the fake hit

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

I've honestly always thought of Frisk as a stone wall character.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

"or it could be a showing of personality for Frisk to still go for the fake hit"

Or maybe that's yet another headcanon you keep throwing out.

 

[QuasiYuri]

I agree with everything, except time stuff, which is more 4th wall/Toon Force. Also it should be noted that if they lower their guard (spare you), even someone with weak killing intent and who could only do a few damage before can one-shot them (you can do this in a neutral run btw, so the weakness isn't only shown in genocide)

 

[Lord_JJJ]

Only if you do that in the ACT option. Actually attacking for real still results in 1 HP.

If it is not a fake hit, that means Frisk, had a desire to fight/self-defens, which would make Undyne weaken and this would cause a high damage to Undyne according to your logic.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Saikou Also Asgore was willing to kill Frisk. If he wasn't willing to kill Frisk during the fight he would've lost in one hit going by your argument with Frisk having some bloodlust.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

No. It means Frisk hit, but couldn't muster killing intentike Undyne says. It means that a normal hit with no killing intent couldn't really harm Undyne.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

No it doesn't. Frisk attacking doesn't neccessarily mean that they were full of bloodlust. Hell Undyne outright states that the pitiful damage is due to Frisk's lack of desire to hurt her.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Asgore wasn't willing to kill Frisk, he just had no choice.the emotions/feelings stuff can even be used to make him weaker by eating Toriel's pie.

 

[Lord_JJJ]

When you make a fake hit and a real attack, Undyne says the same words. It is not strange that a fake hit is as strong as a real attack? does this not mean Frisk is doing a fake his as well if you choose fight

 

[Theglassman12]

If he wasn't willing to kill Frisk, he would've just been oneshotted if Frisk was willing to kill.

 

[QuasiYuri]

The amount of will is a factor here. The more you're willing, the more the monsters are weak to you. 1 lv Frisk doesn't have a will to kill equal to 10 or 20 lv Frisk, which is why he doesn't one shot. It's like, the whole thing about LOVE.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

No, it means that Frisk's desire to kill is so low that their attack is as strong as a fake hit.

 

[Overlord775]

"or it could be a showing of personality for Frisk to still go for the fake hit"
Or maybe that's yet another headcanon you keep throwing out.

if the character goes against what you are tring to do, why wouldn't it be because they chose to do so ?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Also Glass, Frisk was willing to kill enough to damage Asgore, but not enough to one shot like in Genocide.

 

[Theglassman12]

And he still beats him in the end, so he should scale to 9-A since he beat someone who's at least on par with Undyne.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Him beating Asgore doesn't make him scale, Saikou and me just explained why.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

He beats someone weakened to being pretty much 10-C, Glass.

@Overlord

YOU interpret it as a fake hit. Also Frisk never not attacked when asked to before. No reason why it would happen just here of all places.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Yuri aren't Betrayal kills a thing that can happen even in LOVE 1 Frisk? Cause you can oneshot anyone that doesn't have the will to kill you. If not then I'll concede.

@Saikou That only applies if Asgore isn't willing to kill, but he is willing to kill since he does kill you and Frisk tells him how many times you died to him.

 

[Overlord775]

@Overlord

YOU interpret it as a fake hit. Also Frisk never not attacked when asked to before. No reason why it would happen just here of all places.

in the same scene Frisk didn't have the will to smash a tomato

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

@Glassman

He's willing to kill to an extent, but he's still very relunctant.

@Overlord

How does this relate...? It doesn't prove that Frisk just fake hit Undyne when asked to attack for real.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I agree FRA

 

[Overlord775]

and she's had also asked him to smash the tomato, but he didn't.

BTW, there's also the fact Undyne smashed a boulder mid-fight, which is not possible to be just 10-C

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Or Frisk is just unable. She did just ask him to punch the tomato at their strongest.

That's not how it works. What gets weakened is the attacks' impact on the opponent, not the strength of the monster.