RWBY Vol 9 General Discussion Thread: Multiverse Of Therapy

[Cire]

Like i think we're on the same page here hopefully, but i genuinely have to make sure, cause this wiki has seriously thought the RWBY x DC crossovers beforehand were all canon and gave canon feats for the mainline series (They did not).

Thank god we've established that by now but if people are really gonna wanna discuss this movie for its power scaling, then separate profiles should be made for the crossover variations and not at all integrated into the main profiles

Also, that was from Weeklu confusing the RWBY comics to the JL/RWBY comics as canon. The RWBY comics themselves are canon but not that comic crossover

 

[Cire]

Its purely about writing and is a way for them to hopefully practise with how they'll handle them in V10. Its not canon to the characters' powers and these events will not influence the main story whatsoever.

Unless they throw that all away and mention the movie in the main series (they should not do this)

They should because it would be hilarious.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Either way, it would prompt a separate profiles to be made for their DC x rwby movie and comic counterparts

Right, though we would need to find out where Team RWBY and the Justice League scale to before even beginning to index? As Cire stated, in the movie it's stated by Kilgore that anything his and Watt's Grimm can do, he can as well, which does include that one Grimm which created a pretty decently sized storm in the movie. I'm not an expert on storm creation calcs so if anyone wouldn't mind telling me that how you scale storms to stats then that would be appreciated

 

[Jinx666]

I’ll submit to that for now. I genuinely think bomb scaling should be legit tho. Along with taking Salem down from Large Island due to us never seeing her actually raise the geyser herself.

yeah the geyser feat doesnt work, the geyser and the grimm river was actively building up beforehand and no implication it was Salems actual doing.

People are confused that Salem 'controlling' these Grimm means she has their collective power. It doesnt, grimm existed before she became Salem, she literally just has control over these monsters and can somewhat influence their form. She shouldnt really scale to her grimm creations and doesnt actively influence all of their actions. She just leads them and they listen
Her body is also weak af, she just has immortality and regen, but otherwise her body is super squishy and not aura protected

 

[Jinx666]

Also, that was from Weeklu confusing the RWBY comics to the JL/RWBY comics as canon. The RWBY comics themselves are canon but not that comic crossover

The RWBY comics are completely contradictory to the mainline canon in several key ways (tell the story differently), and we shouldnt consider them canon but a step in the right direction is always good.

 

[Cire]

yeah the geyser feat doesnt work, the geyser and the grimm river was actively building up beforehand and no implication it was Salems actual doing.

People are confused that Salem 'controlling' these Grimm means she has their collective power. It doesnt, grimm existed before she became Salem, she literally just has control over these monsters and can somewhat influence their form. She shouldnt really scale to her grimm creations
Her body is also weak af, she just has immortality and regen

I mean she scales to the Grimm but only to the main cast scaling to specific Grimm. I wouldn’t scale her to Monstra.

 

[Cire]

The RWBY comics are completely contradictory to the mainline canon in several key ways (tell the story differently), and we shouldnt consider them canon but a step in the right direction is always good.

They basically said that they are canon until they aren’t. Which means the contradictions are not canon.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Oh now I’m happy I check back in here regularly: there ISN’T any indication that Salem did the river, is there? It just happened, if anything that would just be attributed to Monstra since that’s where the goop came from.

 

[Cire]

Right, though we would need to find out where Team RWBY and the Justice League scale to before even beginning to index? As Cire stated, in the movie it's stated by Kilgore that anything his and Watt's Grimm can do, he can as well, which does include that one Grimm which created a pretty decently sized storm in the movie. I'm not an expert on storm creation calcs so if anyone wouldn't mind telling me that how you scale storms to stats then that would be appreciated

Team RWBY should just scale to their main profiles since they already went through the entire plot of the show up to V9. The JL scales to RWBY. And they all should scale to Kilgore and Watts.

 

[Cire]

Oh now I’m happy I check back in here regularly: there ISN’T any indication that Salem did the river, is there? It just happened, if anything that would just be attributed to Monstra since that’s where the goop came from.

No. The river just condensed itself like a coil and sprung up. That said, Monstra’s KE would include the weight of the Grimm river since that is where the river came from in the first place.

 

[Jinx666]

I mean she scales to the Grimm but only to the main cast scaling to specific Grimm. I wouldn’t scale her to Monstra.

Well yh shes probably stronger than the fodder grimm but this geyser feat from her is bogus tbh

Also the Centinel feat and the 'Penny busting a door' (she literally didnt) feats are also wrong.

And the scaling of Cinder to the maincast is also iffy considering Cinder was very much not using her full extent of maiden abilities (which seem to only properly buff her elemental wise. Physical wise, we dont see her doing anything significant like she did with Raven to the main case). Maidens arent the supernatural god beings we thought they were but i really dont think Cinders maiden powers were on full display in V8 finale as if the RWBY characters are also maiden level

 

[Kingofwolves999]

No. The river just condensed itself like a coil and sprung up. That said, Monstra’s KE would include the weight of the Grimm river since that is where the river came from in the first place.

Except Monstra lost no mass and the river expunged double the mass that Monstra is currently calculated as having.

So that makes no sense at all unless some weird magic is happening, which brings into question how Monstra’s mass and KE work in general.

 

[Jinx666]

They basically said that they are canon until they aren’t. Which means the contradictions are not canon.

We cant just pick and choose from it. If it gets contradicted (it has, many times), then it should just be discarded entirely and considered secondary source material. Which it is, as the comic as a whole is a soft reboot and a different telling to the mainline.

And we have very much proven Miles and kerry dont know what canon means

 

[Cire]

Well yh shes probably stronger than the fodder grimm but this geyser feat from her is bogus tbh

Also the Centinel feat and the 'Penny busting a door' (she literally didnt) feats are also wrong.

And the scaling of Cinder to the maincast is also iffy considering Cinder was very much not using her full extent of maiden abilities (which seem to only properly buff her elemental wise. Physical wise, we dont see her doing anything significant like she did with Raven to the main case). Maidens arent the supernatural god beings we thought they were but i really dont think Cinders maiden powers were on full display in V8 finale as if the RWBY characters are also maiden level

The cast scales to Cinder. She was in full bloodlust in V8 and had no reason to hold back. Even so, they held their own against her. Just because the same spectacle isn’t there doesn’t mean that Cinder wasn’t trying to murder them all.

 

[Cire]

We cant just pick and choose from it. If it gets contradicted (it has, many times), then it should just be discarded entirely and considered secondary source material. Which it is, as the comic as a whole is a soft reboot and a different telling to the mainline.

And we have very much proven Miles and kerry dont know what canon means

I would think that the writers of the show would know what canon and non canon means. We can’t assume they don’t because that’s just downplay.

 

[Cire]

Except Monstra lost no mass and the river expunged double the mass that Monstra is currently calculated as having.

So that makes no sense at all unless some weird magic is happening, which brings into question how Monstra’s mass and KE work in general.

Monstra lost mass by spitting out the river. It literally came from the monster. And if the river is double the mass of Monstra, that’s fine. Monstra still survives flying on its own.

 

[Cire]

Anyway, right now, I think we should just focus on calcing feats. How would you guys measure Watts and Kilgore powering the entire Grimm army?

 

[Kingofwolves999]

The cast downscale from Cinder since they can survive her hits (not endure them well) and kinda hurt her with their attacks. She’s not holding back in the final fight and we know Maiden Powers buff your aura at the least from Amber going from being hurt by Mercury/Emerald to tanking their attacks with no damage.

Monstra lost mass by spitting out the river. It literally came from the monster. And if the river is double the mass of Monstra, that’s fine. Monstra still survives flying on its own.

Except Monstra is the same size before and after expunging the river. So it didn’t lose any mass and no one remarks on it losing any mass despite it throwing up more mass than its entire body.

That’s like a human throwing up 3 gallons of blood, it’s literally impossible.

 

[Cire]

The cast downscale from Cinder since they can survive her hits (not endure them well) and kinda hurt her with their attacks. She’s not holding back in the final fight and we know Maiden Powers buff your aura at the least from Amber going from being hurt by Mercury/Emerald to tanking their attacks with no damage.

Except Monstra is the same size before and after expunging the river. So it didn’t lose any mass and no one remarks on it losing any mass despite it throwing up more mass than its entire body.

That’s like a human throwing up 3 gallons of blood, it’s literally impossible.

The liquid has to have come from somwhere. It doesn't just spawn out of the blue. If that was the case, that would be a feat of pure energy creatrion, which we know it's not true. And the director's commentary states that Monstra itself spawned the grimm river with the throw up.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Also, if Monstra DID lose mass, then shouldn’t that mean its durability/KE is way lower? Isn’t the calc for its KE based on its size completely incorrect if it can actually store an amount of mass double what it would seem, but then expunged all of it? How heavy is Monstra AFTER it gets rid of the river?

 

[Cire]

Here are the screenshots of the storm made.

 

[Spinoirr]

Also tbh I don't think how much liquid it spit out really matters to its KE sense remember no one expect Oscar's KE blast and the Atlas bomb scale to the whale

It's not like it'll increase the feat a tier

 

[Cire]

Also, if Monstra DID lose mass, then shouldn’t that mean its durability/KE is way lower? Isn’t the calc for its KE based on its size completely incorrect if it can actually store an amount of mass double what it would seem, but then expunged all of it? How heavy is Monstra AFTER it gets rid of the river?

The calc is when Monstra lands.

 

[Jinx666]

I would think that the writers of the show would know what canon and non canon means. We can’t assume they don’t because that’s just downplay.

They dont.
Miles and Kerry are notoriously incompetent im sorry.

The comic directly contradicts the mainline in multiple ways, and they're only calling it canon, much like they call everything canon, for the sake of backtracking on their writing. The comic was not written by them, they're clearly just excited to be paired with a super popular IP like DC.

If it contradicts everything this much, isnt actually written by any of the showrunners directly, and has multiple fogged up points and crossover potential, then the whole thing just has to be discarded. You cant pick and choose whats canon and not canon from a manga run that all overlaps. Willow Schnee is a completely different character.

The cast scales to Cinder. She was in full bloodlust in V8 and had no reason to hold back. Even so, they held their own against her. Just because the same spectacle isn’t there doesn’t mean that Cinder wasn’t trying to murder them all.

She wasn't bloodlust, She was cocky and arrogant, was actively trying to accomplish her main plan after Watts talked the slightest bit of sense to her, and being notably more cunning and collected in her thinking. She literally let Neo fight RWBY, her priority was not solely focused on killing Ruby (and never has)

Her maiden displays during that fight (Where the only showings of maidens full power are through storm creation, something that while significant, dont directly translate into a physical stat buff as she still uses and relies on her aura), were lackluster and not on par when it came to Raven. Theres super unreliable speculation in her breaking Ozpins shield (we do not see this) and comparing her power to the strength of Ozpin's cane magic, but then also scaling the main cast to it?

Like its bad writing in and of itself but Cinder really was...not showing her full maiden powers here.

 

[Cire]

Also tbh I don't think how much liquid it spit out really matters to its KE sense remember no one expect Oscar's KE blast and the Atlas bomb scale to the whale

It's not like it'll increase the feat a tier

Oscar’s KE blast would scale to Monstra’s KE. And the inverse square law would follow that.

 

[Spinoirr]

Also, if Monstra DID lose mass, then shouldn’t that mean its durability/KE is way lower? Isn’t the calc for its KE based on its size completely incorrect if it can actually store an amount of mass double what it would seem, but then expunged all of it? How heavy is Monstra AFTER it gets rid of the river?

The current feat doesn't take in account the Mass it gets rid of, just the mass it has as its flying close to Atlas

 

[Cire]

They dont.
Miles and Kerry are notoriously incompetent im sorry.

The comic directly contradicts the mainline in multiple ways, and they're only calling it canon, much like they call everything canon, for the sake of backtracking on their writing. The comic was not written by them, they're clearly just excited to be paired with a super popular IP like DC.

If it contradicts everything this much, isnt actually written by any of the showrunners directly, and has multiple fogged up points and crossover potential, then the whole thing just has to be discarded. You cant pick and choose whats canon and not canon from a manga run that all overlaps. Willow Schnee is a completely different character.

She wasn't bloodlust, She was cocky and arrogant, was actively trying to accomplish her main plan after Watts talked the slightest bit of sense to her, and being notably more cunning and collected in her thinking. She literally let Neo fight RWBY, her priority was not solely focused on killing Ruby (and never has)

Her maiden displays during that fight (Where the only showings of maidens full power are through storm creation, something that while significant, dont directly translate into a physical stat buff as she still uses and relies on her aura), were lackluster and not on par when it came to Raven. Theres super unreliable speculation in her breaking Ozpins shield (we do not see this) and comparing her power to the strength of Ozpin's cane magic, but then also scaling the main cast to it?

Like its bad writing in and of itself but Cinder really was...not showing her full maiden powers here.

I mean that’s just full of bad faith arguments here. Why would Cinder not want to kill Team RWBY using everything she had?

 

[Cire]

And saying the writers are bad writers and using that as an excuse to discount feats is just not gonna fly. It’s a weak justification.

 

[Spinoirr]

Oscar’s KE blast would scale to Monstra’s KE. And the inverse square law would follow that.

But the current feat doesn't do that, the inverse square law is only for Oscar's ke blasts energy

If it was inverse square law the attacks rating then that would he calc stacking

 

[Cire]

And even so, Winter can survive an onslaught from a fully bloodlusted maiden Cinder.

 

[Jinx666]

The cast downscale from Cinder since they can survive her hits (not endure them well) and kinda hurt her with their attacks. She’s not holding back in the final fight and we know Maiden Powers buff your aura at the least from Amber going from being hurt by Mercury/Emerald to tanking their attacks with no damage.

Yeah...they dont. Maiden Powers just give you the elemental magic. they work completely outside of aura and semblances. At most, they can amplify your dust.

She wasn't going as strong as she was when she actually fights other maidens, Team RWBY had Penny on their side to fight Cinder, the maidens main KE value is from their storm creation (that has no proof it directly correlates into the users physical strength)...

And it overall doesnt narratively make sense for the cast to be compared to whats essentially a god figure to them, if said god figure really did outstat them normally

This should rly be brought into question

 

[Cire]

But the current feat doesn't do that, the inverse square law is only for Oscar's ke blasts energy

If it was inverse square law the attacks rating then that would he calc stacking

I forgot that you guys do the cloud dispersal here.

 

[Jinx666]

And even so, Winter can survive an onslaught from a fully bloodlusted maiden Cinder.

i dont know where you're getting fully bloodlusted from tbh. Cinder was serious, but maiden powers arent even impressive anymore. The physical aspects of it rly come into question

 

[Cire]

Yeah...they dont. Maiden Powers just give you the elemental magic. they work completely outside of aura and semblances. At most, they can amplify your dust.

She wasn't going as strong as she was when she actually fights other maidens, Team RWBY had Penny on their side to fight Cinder, the maidens main KE value is from their storm creation (that has no proof it directly correlates into the users physical strength)...

And it overall doesnt narratively make sense for the cast to be compared to whats essentially a god figure to them, if said god figure really did outstat them normally

This should rly be brought into question

It really shouldn’t since we blatantly see maidens be on another physical tier from others. Fria, an old lady on the verge of dying, was able to manhandle Cinder due to her maiden powers.

 

[Cire]

i dont know where you're getting fully bloodlusted from tbh. Cinder was serious, but maiden powers arent even impressive anymore. The physical aspects of it rly come into question

I mean at this point, I feel like you’re ignoring key scenes of the show because they don’t vibe with you. Also, the bloodlusted part comes from where Cinder screams in unholy agony about her arm getting cut off and then wailing on Winter with impunity.

 

[Jinx666]

I mean that’s just full of bad faith arguments here. Why would Cinder not want to kill Team RWBY using everything she had?

Bro, Cinder was actively tryna develop during this plan and kill all her birds with one stone like Watts suggested.

She did think she killed them when they fell off into the Ever After. She let them fall to their death. Her main priority was taking the Winter maiden powers, so much so she let Neo face off Ruby alone and completely forgot about the grudge, and in the end she 'won'.

Cinder very clearly wasnt using the full extent of the maiden powers, and even then the physical aspects of it are super questionable. (especially when we compare her to her fight with Raven or Ozpin)

 

[Spinoirr]

I mean at this point, I feel like you’re ignoring key scenes of the show because they don’t vibe with you. Also, the bloodlusted part comes from where Cinder screams in unholy agony about her arm getting cut off and then wailing on Winter with impunity.

Mind you Winter had no aura there too

 

[Jinx666]

It really shouldn’t since we blatantly see maidens be on another physical tier from others. Fria, an old lady on the verge of dying, was able to manhandle Cinder due to her maiden powers.

But then that...doesnt make sense? Cause Cinder is also a maiden at this point?

Fria just manhandling another Maiden? as opposed to actually proving her physical superiority over a regular cast member or smthn? The whole power with Fria was purely elemental based

 

[Cire]

Bro, Cinder was actively tryna develop during this plan and kill all her birds with one stone like Watts suggested.

She did think she killed them when they fell off into the Ever After. She let them fall to their death. Her main priority was taking the Winter maiden powers, so much so she let Neo face off Ruby alone and completely forgot about the grudge, and in the end she 'won'.

Cinder very clearly wasnt using the full extent of the maiden powers, and even then the physical aspects of it are super questionable. (especially when we compare her to her fight with Raven or Ozpin)

I mean, again, she was. She had no reason to hold back against people she very much want to kill. She had no way of knowing that she had a bottemless pit to use for her plan. And again, an old lady dying with maiden powers was able to stop Cinder from touching her. That alone states that magic amps up physicality.

 

[Cire]

But then that...doesnt make sense? Cause Cinder is also a maiden at this point?

Fria just manhandling another Maiden? as opposed to actually proving her physical superiority over a regular cast member or smthn? The whole power with Fria was purely elemental based

How is it elementally based when she literally grabs Cinder's hand and stop her in her tracks?