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RWBY Vol 9 General Discussion Thread: Multiverse Of Therapy

Cire said:
What are the arguments for not at least downscaling the characters from maidens?
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Because every time we see a maiden fighting it is either another maiden matching them or 5 people at the same time struggling to win lol, this is a very consistent thing.
 
CurrySenpai said:
Because every time we see a maiden fighting it is either another maiden matching them or 5 people at the same time struggling to win lol, this is a very consistent thing.
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I agree that, one on one, they can't win. But I argue that non-maiden members can still contend with them. For example, if they were doing just straight up no damage to them or getting consistently one shot, I'd agree. But, this is not the case. Amber was beaten by the combined efforts of pre-maiden Cinder, Merc, and Emerald. While it took three of them to beat her, all of them were strong enough to damage and take her blows.

Another example would be Winter surviving a bloodlust onslaught after cutting off Cinder's arm. While Cinder's arm had no aura, it was shown through the Raven fight to be strong enough to contend with another maiden. Winter cutting it off in one slice supports the argument that characters can damage maidens. Winter also managing to hold off Cinder and surviving her crazed assault, even with no aura, also supports the fact that they are able to take damage from them and still live.

Weiss also showcases this in her own fight against Cinder. Cinder, when Weiss has no aura, blow her up with magic. And, as we see in V9, Weiss is still alive and has no permanent damages. She was also able to hold off Cinder for a bit while Penny made the transfer over to Winter. This is supported when Eddy Rivas, a writer and director of RWBY, said in a director's commentary that Weiss was able to "hold her own" and "1v1" Cinder for a bit.

Another example I'd like to use is Pyrrha's fight against Cinder. While yes, she did end up losing and dying, she still put up a decent fight against her. For example, when Pyrrha had Cinder in a hold, Cinder had to use the Grimm Wyvern as a distraction so she could melt Pyrrha's sword. Indeed, in the guidebook, they describe Cinder using the Wyvern as a "nuclear option."

Lastly, something that Spinorr has brought up a few times is Cinder and co choosing to run away from Qrow when Cinder has half of Amber's magic. The fact that Cinder knew that she was not powerful enough, even with the help of her two minions, to beat Qrow is a good indication that base huntsman are still a danger to them.
 
CurrySenpai said:
I 100% disagree and i always will until they have a good individual versus showing versus a maiden
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I can see your point if we are fully scaling them to maidens. But we have shown that the main cast are capable of taking bloodlusted hits and severely damaging them in battle. Amber was beaten by Cinder, Mercurary, and Emerald. And Winter straight up cut off Cinder's arm. This shows that they are strong enough to damage the maidens, who, as seen with Cinder vs Raven, Cinder vs Penny pre and post robot, and Cinder vs Winter, that they can survive hits and blasts from other maidens.

Same thing with durability. Again, Weiss got hit by a bloodlusted magic blast from Cinder and lived. Winter got beat up from an even more bloodlusted Cinder and lived. And both had NO AURA. At their very weakest, both were capable of surviving hits from maidens. I ask you, if we know that these characters can survive full-force attacks from maidens and have consistently done so, what is the argument for not scaling to said feats? Even Pyrrha, a character from V3, was able to put Cinder on the back foot and make her launch a nuclear option.

So, we have proof that the cast can, at the very least, damage maidens. We know that they can hurt them. And we also know that they can survive attacks from them even without aura. While we haven't seen a non-maiden beat a maiden in a full on fight, the examples I have listed above are proof enough that they can at least contend with them. And, thus, are due for downscaling.
 
Cire said:
I agree that, one on one, they can't win. But I argue that non-maiden members can still contend with them. For example, if they were doing just straight up no damage to them or getting consistently one shot, I'd agree. But, this is not the case. Amber was beaten by the combined efforts of pre-maiden Cinder, Merc, and Emerald. While it took three of them to beat her, all of them were strong enough to damage and take her blows.

Another example would be Winter surviving a bloodlust onslaught after cutting off Cinder's arm. While Cinder's arm had no aura, it was shown through the Raven fight to be strong enough to contend with another maiden. Winter cutting it off in one slice supports the argument that characters can damage maidens. Winter also managing to hold off Cinder and surviving her crazed assault, even with no aura, also supports the fact that they are able to take damage from them and still live.

Weiss also showcases this in her own fight against Cinder. Cinder, when Weiss has no aura, blow her up with magic. And, as we see in V9, Weiss is still alive and has no permanent damages. She was also able to hold off Cinder for a bit while Penny made the transfer over to Winter. This is supported when Eddy Rivas, a writer and director of RWBY, said in a director's commentary that Weiss was able to "hold her own" and "1v1" Cinder for a bit.

Another example I'd like to use is Pyrrha's fight against Cinder. While yes, she did end up losing and dying, she still put up a decent fight against her. For example, when Pyrrha had Cinder in a hold, Cinder had to use the Grimm Wyvern as a distraction so she could melt Pyrrha's sword. Indeed, in the guidebook, they describe Cinder using the Wyvern as a "nuclear option."

Lastly, something that Spinorr has brought up a few times is Cinder and co choosing to run away from Qrow when Cinder has half of Amber's magic. The fact that Cinder knew that she was not powerful enough, even with the help of her two minions, to beat Qrow is a good indication that base huntsman are still a danger to them.
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Can you send video links for all of these cause even in my own memory most of these are being taken crazy out of context, Maiden Downscaling makes 0 sense whatsoever, especially the Pyrrha versus Cinder example. She had just gotten full control of her maiden powers and despite "putting up a good fight" she pretty much got stomped the moment Cinder took it seriously.

Running away from Qrow doesn't really mean much because 1. He's part of Oz's inner circle and is known as a dangerous huntsman and Salem constantly reinforced how weak she still was. If she revealed her hand she would have been found out much sooner.

Weiss was consistently struggling and was STILL struggling at that moment she very clearly is not even on the same level to hold her off in a 1v1, WoG doesn't matter if it contradics what we saw.

"Bloodlust Onslaught" she wasn't going to survive, her blood was being drawn and she couldn't even do anything. Simply getting stomped or "surviving an attack that doesn't instantly kill you." is not enough to scale even a tiny bit.
 
I cannot stress enough that simply surviving an attack from a far stronger character does not make you just downscale from them.
 
CurrySenpai said:
Can you send video links for all of these cause even in my own memory most of these are being taken crazy out of context, Maiden Downscaling makes 0 sense whatsoever, especially the Pyrrha versus Cinder example. She had just gotten full control of her maiden powers and despite "putting up a good fight" she pretty much got stomped the moment Cinder took it seriously.

Running away from Qrow doesn't really mean much because 1. He's part of Oz's inner circle and is known as a dangerous huntsman and Salem constantly reinforced how weak she still was. If she revealed her hand she would have been found out much sooner.

Weiss was consistently struggling and was STILL struggling at that moment she very clearly is not even on the same level to hold her off in a 1v1, WoG doesn't matter if it contradics what we saw.

"Bloodlust Onslaught" she wasn't going to survive, her blood was being drawn and she couldn't even do anything. Simply getting stomped or "surviving an attack that doesn't instantly kill you." is not enough to scale even a tiny bit.
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Sure thing. Also, as for word of god, I don't really know what to say. The man who wrote and created the scene is saying Weiss is holding his own. I trust his word. We can't just pick and choose what to buy from statements.

Penny and Winter vs Cinder:
 
Cire said:
I can't agree with that at all. Especially when Weiss survives the attack from Cinder with no lasting damage. You are arguing that every attack that a maiden throws out can one shot the cast. Which, as we know, is not true.
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Also like I generally can't understand how the hell a city block level character can survive a attack from someone who's low 7-B, when their casual attacks are Town level too
 


And here are the Ace-Ops straight up beating Maiden Penny in a fight. They win by Marrow's semblance, but they but her on the back foot multiple times with their physical strikes.
 
Cire said:


And here are the Ace-Ops straight up beating Maiden Penny in a fight. They win by Marrow's semblance, but they but her on the back foot multiple times with their physical strikes.
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You can't be serious, right? They... they don't even fight her, Penny does not get hit ONCE during this entire fight how are you arguing they even SCALE to her this is absurd levels of cope.
 
CurrySenpai said:
You can't be serious, right? They... they don't even fight her, Penny does not get hit ONCE during this entire fight how are you arguing they even SCALE to her this is absurd levels of cope.
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You time stamped the wrong point I got confused but still, this... this makes 0 sense to try and say they scale there's 5 of them and they don't even do considerable damage to her I'm dead.
 
CurrySenpai said:
You can't be serious, right? They... they don't even fight her, Penny does not get hit ONCE during this entire fight how are you arguing they even SCALE to her this is absurd levels of cope.
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Penny gets punched multiple times by Harriet, hit by a hammer, knocked off a balcony, and so on so forth.
 
CurrySenpai said:
You time stamped the wrong point I got confused but still, this... this makes 0 sense to try and say they scale there's 5 of them and they don't even do considerable damage to her I'm dead.
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Considerable damage like cutting off an arm and causing extreme pain? Like what Winter did to Cinder?
 
We've already established that characters can harm maidens and survive their bloodlusted attacks. No one here is saying that they exactly scale. What I am putting forth is that they are able to contend with them.
 
In fairness to Winter cutting off Cinder's arm: Cinder's fight with Raven at the end of V5 revealed that Cinder's arm can't be protected by her Aura since it's Grimm, as stated by Raven and explaining why Cinder felt pain from fragments of a sword piercing through her arm.

So while it is technically impressive, I don't think it's explicitly as impressive as it sounds given the arm is objectively the weakest part of Cinder's body
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
In fairness to Winter cutting off Cinder's arm: Cinder's fight with Raven at the end of V5 revealed that Cinder's arm can't be protected by her Aura since it's Grimm, as stated by Raven and explaining why Cinder felt pain from fragments of a sword piercing through her arm.

So while it is technically impressive, I don't think it's explicitly as impressive as it sounds given the arm is objectively the weakest part of Cinder's body
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Indeed it is. However, the arm is still strong enough to physically contend with another maiden. And to do that, it would need to withstand the necessary energy needed to do so.
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
In fairness to Winter cutting off Cinder's arm: Cinder's fight with Raven at the end of V5 revealed that Cinder's arm can't be protected by her Aura since it's Grimm, as stated by Raven and explaining why Cinder felt pain from fragments of a sword piercing through her arm.

So while it is technically impressive, I don't think it's explicitly as impressive as it sounds given the arm is objectively the weakest part of Cinder's body
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They're point is that we see cinders Grimm arm literally wistanding the force of her swings and attacks otherwise each time she swings the damn sword with her Grimm arm it'd break
 
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