Also, I will say that the lasers fire in Amity Arena are bright blue, the same color as other things powered by hard light dust.
Powered by hard light dust is not a qualifier for light speed, as I already said. You need to prove the power source is giving the weapon the properties of light, and THAT makes it a reliable source.
Yes. This exact point has been asked four times in this thread already. And the evidence to prove that it is has been posted. Four times. Dust is not magic. Magic exists in RWBY and Dust is explicitly not it. Dust is natural elements, named strictly after the elements they are. Hard Light Dust is named Hard Light Dust because it is the element of light.
You have not procided any evidence, despite your claims. All you've done is repeat the same argument of "it is called light so it must be light" which is not satisfactory for the standards.
Does Hard Light dust occur in nature? Where is hard light dust shown to be light in its raw state? Doesn't the name hard light imply that it's raw state would be hard light, and thus not natural light? If it is a combination of dust types, why would it be comparable to natural light? Does hard light dust meet criteria?
Everything you speak about hard light dust is not fact. It is assumption.
You assume that the raw form of hard light dust, which doesn't exist unless proven to do so, is natural light.
You assume that things that are powered by hard light dust are light speed, and do not need to exhibit any properties.
Like I told you, the lasers in Amity Arena fire off lasers of blue light, which is the same color as most things that are powered by hard light dust.
"Most things" being Velvet's weapon? That is the only hard light powered weapon that has been brought forth. Is this a statement that only her weapon and that laser canon are powered by hard light dust? Then does that not mean that Penny’s lasers and any other dust powered laser equipment needs to prove lightspeed on its own?
It’s not the name. It’s the description of the light itself. It being magic means absolutely nothing. Youre strawmanning so hard its unreal.
It has been proven but cool, even if theyre not light dust theyre still mechanical, which still qualifies for lightspeed. Dont like it? Take it up with the lightspeed standards.
Here is Velvet making lasers with her hard light dust.
Velvet Scarlatina is a ?-aura unit in RWBY: Amity Arena. Unlocked at Mistral Village, Velvet Scarlatina is a unit that copies a previously deployed unit. [2] A unit that copies a previously deployed unit. Miss Scarlatina, for the sake of gameplay, will copy abilities of other cards, even...
amityarena.fandom.com
Even in her Amity Arena bio she is stated to copy the weapons of everyone in the game, including, guess what, the particle cannon of the spider droid and Penny's lasers.
What is the point of reposting the evidence for the twelfth time if youre just demonstrating the unwillingness to listen and willingly ignoring everything shown or explained to you?
What description? There is no description for the light. The description for the silver eyed warriors light is just that. It's called light. It's magic. It is meant to destroy Grimm. How is that a strawman? The onus is on you to prove that the light in question moves relative to natural light, thats not a strawman.
Being mechanical is a single evidence, not enough for them all. I went over this numerous times in my post, the amount of criteria needed is not being produced.
She is making lasers out of hard light dust. That does not make it light speed, unless you have evidence that this particular attack from her was, as you constantly claim, raw light dust. She can produce explosions with hard light dust, something that is definitely not light speed or tangible like a weapon, so her producing Penny's energy beam would just mean you need to prove Penny's beam is light speed to begin with, which is just a circular argument.
I'm challenging your evidence and have been since the start. It is not satisfactory. You claim that hard light dust should produce light speed weapons, yet do not even have anything to suggest that hard light dust in a raw form would do that. Is Hard Light dust natural, and why would its natural state not literally be hard light like velvets constructs? Why is it assumed to be light speed from an assumption that it's raw form should be natural light? These are things that need evidence, not just constantly shoving the same argument again and again because you don't like what I'm saying.
Hard light dust needs evidence of producing light speed lasers. It producing lasers is not sufficient evidence, unless the lasers in question meet light speed criteria. None of the lasers shown even come close other than Penny's.
Lasers = Raw light dust, which is natural light
Constructs = Processed light dust, which is hard light
NGL im really getting tired of having to explain this every five minutes, from now on im just going to copy paste this every time it gets brought up.
Prove that lasers are raw light dust. Velvets weapon copies things, even recreating explosions, using the argument that she can
isnt this only like in season 3/
Why is this even being brought up, I don’t even talk about her eye wing thing. That is not my point against silver eyes at all, it is their magical nature and the stripping of context to just say “they’re called light so they’re light speed” that is my issue.
This type of response sets up a very bad mood regarding your whole counter, ngl.
Are you serious? I’ve stayed nothing but respectful this entire time. My counter was constructed totally from logic and presented arguments, how is me showing shock over the length the thread had grown in a night setting a bad mood for my argument?? Am I supposed to be like Weekly and claim that all of my opponents arguments are false, threaten to copy paste my posts in response to other arguments I don’t like, refuse to provide evidence,
LIE about evidence that I don’t have?
This is a completely unwarranted response.
Incorrect. Just by virtue of being stated to be light is what makes it lightspeed, literally 70% of this thread revolved around this issue and it has now been resolved. If you disagree then go downgrade Black Clover (Uses magic that is only light in name) or One Piece (Uses light that explodes on contact) or Naruto (where light is just condensed lightning).
Why are you acting like these lasers dont fit every criteria for lightspeed? You act like they are only these things in name when they have every property necessary to qualify for being the speed of light.
It being magic means absolutely nothing, otherwise you could easily downgrade the vast majority of lightspeed verses on the wiki (Black Clover's lightspeed is magic, One Piece's lightspeed is a devil fruit, Naruto's lightspeed is condensed lightning chakra, etc.)
Incorrect, being stated as light is not sufficient evidence when dealing with fictional magic.
What is it with you and other verses? That’s not an argument. Saying I should go to other verses that have their own scaling chains is complete false equivalence and just shows a lack of care from you in regards to wiki standards. You acknowledge that you could be wrong, but don’t do anything to change it, and instead want to perpetuate a cycle? I don’t get that.
Black Clover and One Piece have light speed scaling that is better than what has been presented for RWBY. Simple as that. It is your prerogative to change my mind.
They don’t fight every criteria for light speed.
You are lying if you are saying any laser except for Penny has showings for more than 2 criteria of light speed. You’re the one denying that they aren’t meeting the criteria with no evidence to back it up.
It being magic means absolutely everything. It puts the highest scrutiny possible on it unless you can prove that the magic produced from the silver eyes is the exact same SPEED as natural light. That is the main argument for you to prove, that is why the criteria exist.
Stop bringing up other verses. You’re just complaining about them having something you don’t, and it is not a sound argument.
1. The beam refracts in a new material, such as a liquid (lasers in rwby bounce off of a flat sheet of ice. Check ✔)
2. The beam diffuses in a reasonably realistic way or reflects off a material that it can be expected to, such as a mirror.
3. It is stated to be composed/consisting of photons or light itself by a reliable source. (Atlas has a mech with a photon cannon made of photons and was a prototype. Penny's lasers are called lasers)
4. It has its origin at a realistic source of light, such as a camera. (It comes from technology and is powered by electricity like a real laser/photon cannon)
Idk that's 3 out for 4
1. Refraction is not reflection.
Refraction is when Light bends while passing from one medium to the next, distorting itself. That is not reflection, where it is totally redirected. No laser has shown this quality.
2. This is shown with Ironwoods laser gun
3. Her weapon being called a laser does not mean it is made of protons, that is never claimed. That is an assumption made from the particle cannon, which assumes that every laser weapon is thus a particle cannon. The burden is on you all to prove that all lasers in RWBY are also particle cannons.
4. Technology is a valid source
Put simply, the fact that there is not a blatant lightspeed statement for the lasers is wholly irrelevant due to the lasers meeting the other criteria of lightspeed (source is from technology, stated to be a particle beam by the best scientists in the world, burns and cuts rather than generating force, travels only in straight lines, reflects off of reflective surfaces), as well as the now currently accepted feats of near light feats which further support the lasers being lightspeed.
Sorry to be blunt but making this claim is just wholly ignorant of Dust as a material in RWBY. Raw dust does in fact exist in-verse, it is what releases the natural elemental properties of Dust. Raw fire dust creates fire, raw lightning dust creates lightning, raw ice dust creates ice. Raw hard light dust creates light.
Already explained this multiple times but i guess i have to again because people dont listen; Velvet's constructs are the PROCESSED version of Hard Light Dust, while her camera flash and lasers are the RAW version of hard light dust.
It does yes, all Dust is naturally occurring, artificial Dust does not exist in RWBY.
Wrong
Velvet Scarlatina is a ?-aura unit in RWBY: Amity Arena. Unlocked at Mistral Village, Velvet Scarlatina is a unit that copies a previously deployed unit. [2] A unit that copies a previously deployed unit. Miss Scarlatina, for the sake of gameplay, will copy abilities of other cards, even...
amityarena.fandom.com
"Being a small rabbit Faunus in one of Beacon's most illustrious teams of all time, Velvet feels like all eyes are on her. Incessant whispers about her inadequacy and veiled Faunus discrimination continuously scar her heart. To make matters worse, the combination of having an intelligence type Semblance,
dependence on hard light Dust (the rarest Dust) for her camera, and losing precious photos of friends with each attack forces Velvet to take the backseat in most combat situations."
Just...very, very wrong. And that scan has been on this thread since page 1.
Same response as the first one, it has every property of lightspeed, not even going to bother repeating myself.
Its stated to be light, therefore it is light, magical or nonmagical, it is light. If you dont like this then feel free to try to downgrade verses like Black Clover for also having 'magical light'.
False. Her lasers meet four of the five criteria.
The partcle cannon is not named 'particle cannon', it is STATED TO BE ONE, by Atlas Scientists.
The wiki standards allow this to be considered lightspeed my guy, we even had a whole discussion in this thread about how lasers are able to be considered lightspeed if other lightspeed feats exist in the verse independent of the lasers
The particle cannon is not comparable to Penny’s laser at all, you are conflating the two. Penny’s lasers are not stated to be made of photons at all, you are giving her a quality that she does not have by equating it to the particle cannon. And what currently accepted feats? Nothing in this thread has been accepted, it’s still being debated if they’re valid at all, especially silver eyes. You’re attempting to shut a case that is still wide open.
No it is not ignorant, stop being insulting.
I am asking for evidence that Hard Light dust produces light in a manner that you are implying is natural. Hard Light is not a natural phenomenon, and “Raw light dust” has never been confirmed to exist at all. The only mentions of light dust are through Hard Light, never is it stated that “Light Dust” exists, you’re just assuming and running with it.
Processes is not referenced anywhere.
Raw I’m not referenced anywhere
You are coming up with these terms that have no in-verse backing at all. Processed hard light dust is not a statement that exists in RWBY. You invented that statement to try and get around the fact that Velvet’s constructs are just constant projections of hard light dust, in an attempt to claim that lasers are natural light. That is a faulty stance, one that cannot possibly be stood upon.
There is no such thing as processed or raw hard light dust. Those terms are your own fabrication, and you have not once provided anything to suggest otherwise.
“All dust is naturally occurring” this is a lie. You yourself have stated that the mixing of natural dust can create new types of dust. Whether Hard Light is naturally occurring or not, this specific statement is completely false.
I addressed the camera already
No it does not have every property of light speed. You are not doing yourself any favors at all just making this claim with no backing.
PROVE that it is lightspeed. It is not meeting criteria, that is not me being rude at all, it is the straight facts. You can literally see every aspect of the subject matter and count the instances that are proved.
You are attempting to combine multiple different sources of technology, homogenize them into Hard Light Dust despite many of them not having any confirmed power source that implies hard light dust, then saying an individual showing meets the criteria. This is not at all a valid way to argue light speed.
“It’s stated to be light therefore it is light,” Incorrect, my entire argument dismantled the notion that being called “light” is the same as being comparable to natural light in every way.
Again, you bring up other verses to try and justify your own gaps in logic. That is not valid. You want to bring up another verse?
My Hero Academia. Navel Laser. It is confirmed to be light by multiple sources, shows just as many signs of being true light, and has even more criteria than Penny. It is rejected from light speed because it contains properties that aren’t present in light.
Magic light should be in the exact same position as the navel laser. Being called light? Irrelevant. Showing the criteria? Relevant. If it shows properties, or comes from a source, that is not natural or indicative of speed, then it should not be accepted.
Being called light is not enough.
And no other light speed feats exist in the verse that are not being challenged currently. All light speed feats, including the silver eyes, Penny’s beam, the particle cannon, EVERYTHING is being challenged, so they are not valid evidence. It is your job to prove that all of them are valid through their own merit, not by comparing them to other verses or conflating them with each other or not providing the evidence that is requested.
At this point in the argument it really feels like the arguments against it are just repeating the same things over and over again without actually paying attention to any of the evidence being provided to them, are strawmanning the absolute hell out of everything, and are trying to create false arguments to be in their favor (downplaying stuff like the particle cannon by arguing its 'only a particle cannon in name' despite never actually being named a particle cannon, only described as one, and by the most intelligent analytical scientists on the planet at that).
And people are wondering why this thread is currently six pages long lol
And now you’re claiming I’m making false arguments. Fantastic. I’m simply abiding by my own stance with the wiki and it’s light speed criteria.
If the wiki calls that these criteria need to be met for light speed, and even if the criteria are met, there can be enough scrutiny to disallow things that are accepted as true light, then yes, I’m going to call you out.
I have never, not ONCE strawmanned you. I have answered, asked and questioned completely on point for every single post and discussion had. You are attempting to attack my character because you don’t like what I’m saying.
This was my thoughts on silver eyes like even the legends aside its flat out stated to be light
And I have challenged this. On multiple fronts.
1. Being stated light does not equate it to natural light. It is called light because of its association with the God of Light. It is magical light that carries the properties of damaging Grimm and preserving life. It is not natural in anyway, nor does Maria describe “light” in a way that can equate it to natural light. Magic Light is not made of photons, therefore it should be under heavy scrutiny to be accepted.
2. Something can be light and not be light speed. The silver eyes do not have any evidence beyond the statement of being “Light” in regards to their relation to the God of Light to be remotely in contest for this.
its main contradiction was retconned out of existence
Literally after volume 3 the silver eyes have never looked or acted the way they did when shown again its just omnidirectionally light and has been for every volume since then
Why are these even being brought up? Not once has the wing blast been my argument against light speed silver eyes, it has always been their magical qualities. Being called light is not enough per wiki standards for magical sources of power.
Light Magic needs to be proven to be light speed. Being called light is not evidence for its speed anymore than being called a laser is evidence.
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