RWBY downgrade

[Theglassman12]

So looking through some of the pages for RWBY, I've noticed some questionable tiering placements for most of the cast, as well as one particular ability given to the Grimm that feels a bit misleading.

7-C

So everyone from Volume 6 onward scales to the centipedes grimm digging through the rocks that held the shield towers up, the problem here is assuming that they completely ripped through the entirety of the rocks with that short time frame and not just weakening the foundation of the dirt that the tower was build on, and causing a chain reaction of the entire thing collapsing. This is equivalent of having a couple of C4s blow up some small pillars that sustain an entire building, and scaling the C4's energy to the entire building's destruction when it just broke down its foundation at best. So this feat shouldn't remotely scale to the Centinels at all.

Low 7-B scaling

This stems from team RWBY and co. downscaling from the Maidens, the problem here is the fact that Maiden Cinder is clearly shown to be on a whole nother level from the team, especially when the end of Volume 8 has all of team RWBY being slapped around by Maiden Cinder with no effort whatsoever, and the fact Ironwood when facing off against Maiden Winter gets his strongest attack effortlessly reflected and he gets KO'd permanently, and to top it all off, the bomb Ironwood was gonna use to blow up all of Mantle, which was calced to between High 7-C to close to baseline 7-B canonically kills Vine, who's physically comparable to team RWBY at this point in time, on top of all of the hunters in Robyn's group is scaled to the same level while also being threatened by the bomb to escape as well, none of the members should remotely scale to the maidens, or even downscale as this ignores how much on a higher level the maidens are to begin with.

Overall the normal hunters/huntresses should go back to their High 8-C to 8-B scaling, alongside anyone else that's comparable to their level.

Reactive Evolution
This one here needs some alteration, the description doesn't sound like Reactive evolution with how the ability itself is portrayed, it should just be Adaptation at best.

Agree: 9 (Damage3245, Planck69, Maverick_Zero_X, Chariot190, Dalesean027, Lordgriffin1000, CloverDragon, The Unknown Warrior, Firestorm808)

Disagree:

Neutral: 1 LordGriffin1000 (mostly on the reactive evolution)

 

[Damage3245]

The arguments in the OP make sense to me.

 

[Planck69]

Makes sense to me.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Agree with the OP.

 

[Chariot190]

I can get behind the first feat being a tad too vague to assume it happened the way the calc presents it.
And that scaling everyone to Maidens is faulty.

So I agree with a downgrade unless someone presents a good reason otherwise.

Overall the normal hunters/huntresses should go back to their High 8-C to 8-B scaling, alongside anyone else that's comparable to their level.

I will say, do they not have a few 8-A feats to fall back on instead though? Or any notable feats that should be calced if they don't scale Maidens anymore? I wouldnt know didn't watch it.

 

[Dalesean027]

Sure thing but like which "normal" guys did we even have at tier 7, pretty sure mostly everyone relevant aren't just your normal guys and still have like 8-A~7-C stuff no?

But yeah im fine with normal guys being like high 8-C to 8-B, just moreso asking who these normal guys are who would've been higher for some reason

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

What happened to the 8-A Feats?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

For backup feats worth discussing:

• Oscar has a solid 8-B feat
• The Queen Lancer has an 8-A durability calc (though I don’t remember anyone harming this thing physically, so scaling is up in the air)
• The Colosuss is Low 7-C via sheer size
• An 8-A feat from Yang (from a game that takes place during Volume 7)

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

For backup feats worth discussing:

• Oscar has a solid 8-B feat
• The Queen Lancer has an 8-A durability calc (though I don’t remember anyone harming this thing physically, so scaling is up in the air)
• The Colosuss is Low 7-C via sheer size
• An 8-A feat from Yang (from a game that takes place during Volume 7)

Weiss' Arma Gigas stomped the Queen Lancer and her own Queen Lancer summon was able to be destroyed by the antagonists in Volume 5.

 

[KLOL506]

@LordGriffin1000 @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @Celestial_Pegasus @Agnaa @Firestorm808 @Everything12 @Dereck03 @ByAsura @Everything12 @Sir_Ovens @DemonGodMitchAubin @Duedate8898 @KingTempest @Propellus @AbaddonTheDisappointment @Deagonx @Eficiente Your input here would be appreciated.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Chariot190 unless there's some feats they have in the games that put them on a higher level, they'd be back to upscaling from the Nevermore feat and a couple of Volume 5 feats that got clocked to being High 8-C+.

@Dalesean027 When I say normal I mean the typical hunters and huntresses, characters like Robyn and her gang, or anyone that isn't remotely close to a maiden's power is what I mean by normal.

@Maverick_Zero_X Oscar's feat and Yang's melting feat can help for the Atlas scaling, the queen lancer feat mostly scales to weiss' summons, and only maiden level characters are shown to be able to kill it on their own. The Colossus everyone was getting bodied by so they would hardly scale to it, especially when Ruby barely escaping the exploding arm took out her entire aura.

 

[Theglassman12]

I do actually have one question to ask regarding the Arrowfell game, do we have any confirmation it's canon to the show?

 

[Chariot190]

@Chariot190 unless there's some feats they have in the games that put them on a higher level, they'd be back to upscaling from the Nevermore feat and a couple of Volume 5 feats that got clocked to being High 8-C+.

Does your CRT not include downgrading them in all their keys? Is Yang/Oscar/Queen's feat invalid for some reason for their later iterations?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I can see the issue with the 7-C feat, if the calc members think it's okay to remove, I won't argue. The maiden scaling does look odd. If those other feats linked are good I don't mind them being used. Can't comment on the Reactive Evolution thing at the moment.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I do actually have one question to ask regarding the Arrowfell game, do we have any confirmation it's canon to the show?

Ask  Weekly Spinnoir since he's like the main RWBY Supporter at the moment.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Hey, lets be fair here, weiss was somewhat keeping up with Maiden Cinder even after her aura got destroyed so she should at the very most downscale from Cinder

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Also are you referring to the Grimm's RE?

 

[Theglassman12]

@Chariot190 Mostly the 7-C and higher keys are the ones being downgraded with my proposal, the earlier volume keys stays the same. The Yang/Oscar feat I wasn't aware of being calced, though for Yang I want to double check if the game is actually canon to the main show before jumping the gun there.

@Tony_di_bugalu You do realize that's ignoring how she's being slapped around easily by Cinder right? That's completely ignoring the entire fight.

@XSOULOFCINDERX Yes the grimm RE, they should be Adaptation at best.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Hey, lets be fair here, weiss was somewhat keeping up with Maiden Cinder even after her aura got destroyed so she should at the very most downscale from Cinder

That's in speed, and it still looks like she was overwhelmed and later downed by the blast to the back.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I do actually have one question to ask regarding the Arrowfell game, do we have any confirmation it's canon to the show?

On the verse page it's in the timeline portion but there is no link to an explanation or statement from what I've seen. That should probably be handled in another thread though.

 

[Dalesean027]

When I say normal I mean the typical hunters and huntresses, characters like Robyn and her gang, or anyone that isn't remotely close to a maiden's power is what I mean by normal.

That's fine then

I do actually have one question to ask regarding the Arrowfell game, do we have any confirmation it's canon to the show?

This isn't really in question it was confirmed prior to the games release that it was canon between volume 7 and 8 so its valid

 

[CloverDragon03]

The downgrade makes sense to me, though the potential replacement calcs are also worth considering

 

[Theglassman12]

@Dalesean027 if we have any confirmation just in case people question why we're using the games to scale the show it could help, cause if that's the case then everyone comparable to yang would be on that level.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

@Tony_di_bugalu You do realize that's ignoring how she's being slapped around easily by Cinder right? That's completely ignoring the entire fight.

You do realize that if it was as easily as you said then she would have literally slapped weiss out of the arena at the beginning or even after she landed a fatal hit on Penny, right? Yet she didn't and we see several times how Weiss is keeping up, barely but that's already leagues beyond how the others did against Cinder in the same fight.

 

[Spinoirr]

I do actually have one question to ask regarding the Arrowfell game, do we have any confirmation it's canon to the show?

The steam page says it cannon

 

[Theglassman12]

@Tony_di_bugalu I would not call her aura blowing up and her being thrashed around by a character who's known to be more sadistic than anything as "keeping up with Cinder". There's also the Atlas bomb that threatened everyone, including Hunters/huntresses that are somehow comparable to maidens despite the numerous anti feats.

@Spinoirr Thank you for the confirmation, so everyone would just cross scale to Yang's 8-A feat then.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

The steam page says it cannon

I literally just watched Weiss absolutely dunk on a Queen Lancer in the game's trailer while reading the summary. XD

 

[Chariot190]

The steam page says it cannon

they actually say in-canon wtf

Well if it's canon, put me down for agree, but down to 8-A for Yang's feat for later keys (and Queen if it scales?).

 

[Spinoirr]

Also found this article

RWBY Arrowfell Announced From WayForward And Arc System Works In Debut Trailer

During the RWBY Live event at Rooster Teeth's RTX live stream, the cast and crew of RWBY revealed the first gameplay for RWBY Arrowfell,

noisypixel.net

 

[Spinoirr]

@Tony_di_bugalu I would not call her aura blowing up and her being thrashed around by a character who's known to be more sadistic than anything as "keeping up with Cinder". There's also the Atlas bomb that threatened everyone, including Hunters/huntresses that are somehow comparable to maidens despite the numerous anti feats.

Honestly the bomb could be the same situation with Android 16's bomb being a threat to star busters

But other then that, what other anti feats are there for the characters downscaling from the maidens Honestly they should be 2 times weaker then maidens as qrow scared off half Maiden power Cinder, if she was stronger then him then she should have killed him right then and there, but she didn't

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

I know Spinoirr already showed stuff from the official Steam page, but there is a explict statement from the trailers of the game which states its canon. I'll even share the trailer with the timeframe for where its said and a screenshot for convenience's sake.

Also on the topic of the downgrade: I agree with it FRA, I've always felt scaling the regular cast to Maidens was always absurd given that Cinder stomped the shit out of them during the finale of V8.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

@Tony_di_bugalu I would not call her aura blowing up and her being thrashed around by a character who's known to be more sadistic than anything as "keeping up with Cinder". There's also the Atlas bomb that threatened everyone, including Hunters/huntresses that are somehow comparable to maidens despite the numerous anti feats.

Consider that:
1) She one tapped Ruby, whom she has a personal vendetta against and is more likely to torture
2) couldn't one/two/three tap Weiss but had to engage with her several times in close quarters even after breaking her aura
3) I'm not arguing that everyone scales, just Weiss as she explicitly was able to keep up (if barely, but she did) with Cinder while the rest got absolutely demolished bar Penny

 

[Spinoirr]

Also on the topic of the downgrade: I agree with it FRA, I've always felt scaling the regular cast to Maidens was always absurd given that Cinder stomped the shit out of them during the finale of V8.

As I said above, they honestly should scale 2 times weaker then the maidens (or downscale from qrow who can make Half Power Fall Maiden Cinder run away)

So it explains why full power Maiden Cinder can stomp winter, but ran away from Qrow who's comparable to Winter when she only had half power

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

As I said above, they honestly should scale 2 times weaker then the maidens (or downscale from qrow who can make Half Power Fall Maiden Cinder run away)

Downscale to what extent? Because I know the time gap between V4 and V8 is by a decent amount, which meant they got stronger, but Qrow fought very competitively against Tyrian in V4 and V7 when the later practically stomped Ruby, Nora, Ren, and Jaune in a 4v1 fight in V4.

Then again, Team RWBY fought against and beat the Ace Ops who were considered the best Huntsmen in Atlas so I wouldn't be against the cast downscaling from Qrow. But above is something to note regardless.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Spinoirr the fact that Ironwood's strongest attack with his BFG goes from knocking around Winter to it being casually deflected back when she becomes maiden and oneshots Ironwood. Literally the entire Volume 8 final fight are showings that they're not comparable to the maidens.

 

[Spinoirr]

Downscale to what extent? Because I know the time gap between V4 and V8 is by a decent amount, which meant they got stronger, but Qrow fought very competitively against Tyrian in V4 and V7 when the later practically stomped Ruby, Nora, Ren, and Jaune in a 4v1 fight in V4.

Then again, Team RWBY fought against and beat the Ace Ops who were considered the best Huntsmen in Atlas so I wouldn't be against the cast downscaling from Qrow. But above is something to note regardless.

Yeah I'm not saying they're directly qrow level in Atlas, but downscale from him as Qrow did force half Maiden Cinder to run away and given how full Maiden power Cinder stomped winter who's comparable to Qrow them being 2 times weaker ain't out of the question

 

[Spinoirr]

@Spinoirr the fact that Ironwood's strongest attack with his BFG goes from knocking around Winter to it being casually deflected back when she becomes maiden and oneshots Ironwood. Literally the entire Volume 8 final fight are showings that they're not comparable to the maidens.

I mean, could be another showing of them being half Maiden level honesty given the BFG was made as a Maiden killer for an Android Maiden

A two times power gap could be a large gap in power (a stomp) like how in Dragon Ball it is according to the guide books

 

[SilentLyfe]

Eh not into RWBY threads as much as before so not really upset. Makes sense. However, are all Low 7-Bs being downgraded or those that simply downscale from the Maidens?

 

[Theglassman12]

@Spinoirr for a maiden killer it sure did nothing to Winter's ice barrier when she became a maiden to begin with.

You're gonna need to prove that, especially when Aura's been used in the show to showcase how comparable the characters are to each other, especially when Cinder's aura never once wavered against the group compared to her one on one against Penny earlier in the volume.

@SilentLyfe those that downscale from the maidens are getting downgraded to 8-A for their atlas keys. the 7-C keys are also getting nerfed, and given a good chunk of the characters that scale to this are Volume 6, they'd mostly upscale from the High 8-C stuff.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Eh not into RWBY threads as much as before so not really upset. Makes sense. However, are all Low 7-Bs being downgraded or those that simply downscale from the Maidens?

Yes. Except Weiss, besto girl carries the whole show tbh