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Rule Violation Reports (New forum)

Theglassman12 said:
so yeah this all screams to me that they’re trying to wear down the opposition by constantly making thread after thread after thread without any form of chance for a full discussion to conclude.
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This is well outside the scope of RVR at this point, but no, no one is attempting to wear down the opposition and I think the implicit insinuation within that statement needs to be examined more closely. Supporters needn't rush to every downgrade thread to prevent abilities from being removed. A thread proposing the removal of Wolverine's "regeneration" would obviously fail regardless of if Marvel fans rushed to the thread.

In the best cases being examined in Fuji's threads, the existing justifications are simply inadequate but might be missing scans/evidence for some reason. Fuji can hardly be blamed for that or for thinking the ability should be removed.

In the worst cases, the abilities proposed are just senseless, such as death manipulation for a shriek attack that explodes a head, or weather manipulation because... a winter storm happened around the same time they arrived at a place.

When the all-encompassing 10k word mega-thread was made, even obvious cases like the death manipulation and weather manipulation failed to get removed, being rejected 7-2. It does not come as a surprise to me at all that when this was broken up into smaller individualized chunks, things are passing near unanimously. Fuji is not responsible for the necessity of handling things this way. If she hadn't we'd still have this wacky non-existent weather manip on the page.
 
Okay just so this ends can y’all just condense the downgrades into specific crts per character or per group of characters at the very least. Something like “Kratos abilities downgrade” for one then “Olympian abilities downgrade” for another so that it isn’t just straight up like 3-4 abilities per crt because each one being sent out back to back is somewhat tiring but having a single massive one was also tiring just for the opposite reason.
 
I think the current approach is best. Even handling 2-3 removals at a time, some of these threads are still reaching 5+ pages. It just isn't going to be practical to make them larger without them also becoming so long that they fall into the same sort of issue as the first thread. I don't think Fuji has any obligation here to carry it out differently. When I'm tired of CRTs I just don't participate. I encourage anyone getting worn out or overstressed about forum matters to do the same.
 
@Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara it’s a terrible idea that we get every single point you have out of the way so we can move on to the other parts where people would still have the energy and time to discuss it? You're also talking to someone who does several thousand words of downgrade CRTs for other verses, yet I have enough time and patience to wait for the opposition to give more context before we finish the thread and get everything out of the way.

Literally the very first thread you made for the sisters of fate stuff, he's brought in new evidence for the bio hax stuff for the fates and is asking staff members left and right for input on the new argument (especially when half of the staff said to use the new scans since they're more explicit) and he got shrugged off.

The discussion wasn't finished that's the problem, the fact you're so focused on vote consensus rather than a discussion being finished speaks volume on what you really give a shit about.

One out of 3 abilities btw I agreed with you on, the other 2 you didn't even bother to comment on since I said there's clear issues with it and yet the threads got closed, you still didn't comment to Deagon to leave the thread open, especially when one of those threads I did say I want to comment on them but you just moved on before I can comment.

I know about how much you spent on Touhou, I told you before that I don't give a shit about the time and money you spent because that's not what I'm talking about, the fact you don't seem to care one bit about everyone else's time being spent on the site to just drag out these downgrades for the rest of summer without a hint of care. Especially when other staff members will be tired as hell from commenting on 40+ threads for GoW, you want to have the same exact stuff happen with touhou where everyone will be tired as hell? Be my guest because just like with this series of threads you're doing, people are gonna be sick and tired fast.

@Deagonx No it's not well outside the scope of the RVR since this is tied to what Fuji's third report is about, that KLOL just left because a verse got downgraded when there's a lot more to talk about here. So no stop trying to twist this like it's somehow off topic
 
Deagonx said:
I think the current approach is best. Even handling 2-3 removals at a time, some of these threads are still reaching 5+ pages. It just isn't going to be practical to make them larger without them also becoming so long that they fall into the same sort of issue as the first thread. I don't think Fuji has any obligation here to carry it out differently. When I'm tired of CRTs I just don't participate. I encourage anyone getting worn out or overstressed about forum matters to do the same.
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Honestly, my opinion is not that the contents themselves are the issue, but the fact that there's no downtime in between. When one CRT's done, the next one is immediately put up. From an outsider perspective, having only sparingly participated, I get the feeling that this would get tiring at some point. Not everyone has the same level of resilience to keep at these threads all the time. Like, if the people most knowledgeable on the verse are too burned out by this to comment, I wouldn't exactly call that fair
 
Theglassman12 said:
So no stop trying to twist this like it's somehow off topic
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I'm not merely saying it's "off-topic." I am saying it isn't RVR related. Unless you're taking the stance that the manner in which she has organized these threads is a rule violation, it isn't prudent to discuss it here. If you are of the stance that something she said in the aforementioned report constitutes a rule violation, of course express that sentiment, but you have turned this into a venue for an RVR-unrelated issue that you have with her about how a verse's downgrades are being conducted. That isn't what this thread is meant for.

CloverDragon03 said:
Honestly, my opinion is not that the contents themselves are the issue, but the fact that there's no downtime in between. When one CRT's done, the next one is immediately put up. From an outsider perspective, having only sparingly participated, I get the feeling that this would get tiring at some point. Not everyone has the same level of resilience to keep at these threads all the time. Like, if the people most knowledgeable on the verse are too burned out by this to comment, I wouldn't exactly call that fair
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I disagree. How other people manage their energy is their own responsibility. Again, threads only pass when staff vote, and abilities only get removed when the justifications are unpersuasive. If the justifications are sound then staff will vote against the removal. If the justification is missing a bunch of evidence but you do not have the energy to participate, then (A) Blame the person that wrote the bad justification, not the OP, and (B) Just make a new thread later when you have the time to gather up more evidence. I do not see the issue here at all. Also, this is just plainly not a rule violation. If you want it to be a rule violation, I guess you can make a staff thread proposing such and we could have a more in depth conversation about it.
 
Less on the fact the threads themselves are a rule violation and more the fact that she's just being rather rude about someone leaving when there's likely more going on than what meets the eye, especially given recent events. Second off it's not just me that has an issue with her, it's literally everyone else who's been participating in these threads, staff members included that are sick and tired of this repetition and just want her to get to the meat and potatoes of it all.
 
Deagonx said:
I disagree. How other people manage their energy is their own responsibility. Again, threads only pass when staff vote, and abilities only get removed when the justifications are unpersuasive. If the justifications are sound then staff will vote against the removal. If the justification is missing a bunch of evidence but you do not have the energy to participate, then (A) Blame the person that wrote the bad justification, not the OP, and (B) Just make a new thread later when you have the time to gather up more evidence. I do not see the issue here at all. Also, this is just plainly not a rule violation. If you want it to be a rule violation, I guess you can make a staff thread proposing such and we could have a more in depth conversation about it.
Click to expand...
This will be my last post on the thread, so as to avoid further clog. As if the thread hasn't been clogged to hell and back already

For starters, I'm not making a staff thread on this. I don't see the point. But as for your response overall: Threads only pass when staff vote, yes, but knowledgeable members being able to clear up confusion when necessary is something pretty important. Personally speaking, if I made a revision for a verse I didn't know too well, I'd want to get the opinions of the knowledgeable members. And I'm not saying to make these even bigger threads like some are suggesting - just to maybe chill a little between revisions. I feel that'd be a healthy solution that allows the individual abilities to get the attention they need, while lessening the burnout on the supporters. Personally, I don't see the issue in that.

If you wish to discuss this further, you can comment on my message wall. I'm down to discuss this further if you'd like.

Important Edit: Actually, a staff thread might be worthwhile, upon further consideration. Namely because a rule like this could make the whole process much healthier on all sides, though I'm not sure if I'd want to make one anytime soon. I'm already burned out just dealing with this.
 
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Moving on from that, have we reached a consensus on what to do with the report? It seems like the consensus that it's not worth doing anything, but some staff kinda just commented on the matter and didn't exactly take a stance on what specifically to do

Not doing anything is fine by me at this stage
 
Personally just for that one comment that Fuji was coming off as gloating, i think it should warrant at least a warning for actively inciting drama after a person just retired. But if I get outvoted, I won't bother prolonging it
 
For the record, I am personally getting quite tired of Fujiwara seemingly being a continuous toxic influence on the overal health of our community.

Beyond a certain point of report after report and warning after warning, and now even a valuable staff member quitting, after which she seemingly took potshots about it, when should we start to act?
 
Antvasima said:
For the record, I am personally getting quite tired of Fujiwara seemingly being a continuous toxic influence on the overal health of our community.

Beyond a certain point of report after report and warning after warning, and now even a valuable staff member quitting, after which she seemingly took potshots about it, when should we start to act?
Click to expand...
As soon as possible if you ask me.
 
@Antvasima I'd like to point out that Fuji's been reported already not too long after her ban and has a warning from that, where before her ban she had 9 warnings until enough was enough. So this isn't the first time something like this has happened in regards to her, especially when it comes to God of War stuff. In terms of when we could act, I'll let others decide on that, don't particularly care if it's gonna be either a warning or a ban.
 
I think Fuji's own assessment is worth revsiting here:
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
I think this is just another frivolous report trying to take advantage of the many past frivolous reports against me to try and build up a case for a ban where there is none.
Click to expand...
Personally, I am of the same opinion, and I think notions of "report after report/warning after warning" reflect that this approach is a success. The pot shot you're referring to Ant is that she said she was "not fond of" people who leave over downgrades. This is rather far from what we consider actionable for anyone not named Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara.

If we are to think of a statement like that as being reportable we'd need to reexamine our rules on civility. If you recall I advocated for doing precisely that, and the near unanimous response was that we cannot be too sensitive about these sorts of things. I don't think that we should be making exceptions to that.
 
I am saying that I have the impression that she is continuously spreading toxicity/an overall bad mood in this community, and has been banned before, after which she has received multiple warnings.

Beyond a certain point we have to set our feet down and not let her get away with it without any consequence.

Also, if keeping her around leads to valuable staff members quitting, I do not consider that a good trade at all.
 
Antvasima said:
I am saying that I have the impression that she is continuously spreading toxicity/an overall bad mood in this community, and has been banned before, after which she has received multiple warnings.

Beyond a certain point we have to set our feet down and not let her get away with it without any consequence.
Click to expand...
Strongly agree.
 
Antvasima said:
when should we start to act?
Click to expand...
If she has an actual outburst sometime in the future I agree a month long ban will be warranted, but a ban would a severe overreaction for the offense in question (her saying she’s "not fond of" so-and-so).

Some of the reports of against her in question were determined to not have merit, and the most recent report on her is another instance of that.
 
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The notion of banning someone for 3-6 months over a report such as this is far far removed from how we've approached these matters in the past, and the invocation of past reports which were themselves unactionable lends a great deal of credibility to the sentiment expressed above: these frivolous reports serve the purpose of building towards a ban even when the conduct was never reportable in the first place.

Fuji may not be well liked amongst the supporters of the verses she downgrades, but the remarks reported here are very minimal and so are the earlier remarks which are inexplicably being used to justify a potential half year ban.
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
If she has an actual outburst sometime in the future I agree a multiple-month ban will be warranted, but a ban would a severe overreaction for the offense in question (her saying she’s "not fond of" so-and-so).

Some of the reports of against her in question were determined to not have merit, and the most recent report on her is another instance of that.
Click to expand...
I agree with Maverick. There are things Fuji's done that might warrant us to take action as the final straw on the camel's back, but this one isn't even a rule violation. People are allowed to not like other people.
 
It's quite late so I'll make this quick.

These reports are almost universally agreed to not be worth reporting. You can go back and find numerous examples of me being accused of one thing or another, the OP making a big fuss about it for several pages, and staff typically concluding there was never any need for all that. At worst, you get mild banter that is not atypical of most debates on this site. In those cases, I usually just apologize and move on, because people correctly recognize that there is some aggression inherent to debating and we can't enforce a ban on every tiny infraction.

So when someone tries to bring up the sheer bulk of reports against me as a reason to push for a ban, they neglect to mention that the vast majority of these reports aren't even valid in the first place. It's easy to make a case for a ban when you make invalid report after invalid report, and then point to those reports and go "see how awful Fuji is? she should be permabanned!". It's a strategy I'm quite familiar with, having seen it play out multiple times before; GoW just happens to be the catalyst for this particular instance.

When you look at this report in a vacuum, there is fundamentally nothing there: A mild jab at someone, the target of which was completely unbothered by. A joking comment about transphobia in the context of being misgendered and being someone who HAS experienced transphobia on this site before. Saying I'm not too fond of a certain pattern in behavior, in a thread dedicated to complaining about the issues present in this community. Can any of you, in good conscience, admit that any of those constitute a rule violation? Would other users face a similarly harsh response if they were being put on trial? I think not.

If you just want me off the damn site, then say so. But don't dance around the issue by pretending these reports have any merit.
 
I don’t know how to properly create a report, then i didn’t create it earlier. But i’d like you guys to watch @darkphantom9805 behavior towards me.
Such as replying nonsense things to my comments, trying to get enrage me. And this has been happening consistently.

I don’t know how to adress messages with links, so i cannot create a really decent report.

I just want the staff to be aware of it.

Even after the last episode the guy won’t leave me alone. He did it again on my current CRT, even thought was nothing serious or offensive, this situation is getting quite boring and redundant to me, he keeps with that harassment.

I just want to be left alone. I don’t target anyone here.
 
I find the idea of a ban (for Fujiwara) to be pretty silly in this situation. I don't disagree she's been abrasive in the past but I definitely don't think that these specific instances are even worthy of a warning- I consistently see much more abrasive behavior from many users who have never been put on the chopping block (I'm not going to make names but even some staff members, present and past, are amongst them). I'm not saying people can't be frustrated but quite frankly I find it difficult to see this as much worse than the average user's behavior. Just because she was reported in the past doesn't mean any tiny issue in her behavior should suddenly be punished when we'd gloss over it for anyone else.

She's fine.
 
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As a side thing, I know it's not part of the report but it's weird to complain that the threads she's making contain too little content when each of them has several days' worth of heated debate- that just proves that it's smart to not put much more into them than that, in my opinion. It'd take an hour to type responses and nobody who doesn't have a stake in the debate one way or the other would bother reading them. If people are tired with them being back-to-back though I think it'd be nice to have a pause of at least a few days between them, though.
 
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Mr. Bambu said:
I agree with Maverick. There are things Fuji's done that might warrant us to take action as the final straw on the camel's back, but this one isn't even a rule violation. People are allowed to not like other people.
Click to expand...
Yes, but it is the overall continuous toxicity that I am concerned about.
 
DarkGrath said:
I'm writing this RvR report on behalf of someone who wishes to not be identified with the report. Please note that I have not done more than briefly read over the details of the report at present for any obvious discrepancies, and posting this report is not confirmation of my stance on it. The current report has only minor edits from the original report provided to me to keep it to the relevant details.

I would like to report Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara for these three recent comments on two threads: here, here, and here.
  1. Saying the following in response to someone's argument: "I'm not gonna sugarcoat this for you, if you cannot see the enemies explicitly regenerating after Kratos tears them to pieces, then I think you might legitimately have some sort of issues with your eyesight. I'm not saying that to insult you, I'm genuinely concerned for your health." Saying it's 'not to insult them' just makes it worse.
  2. Glass mistakenly used the wrong pronouns for Fuji, and Fuji commented on this saying "How do people keep getting my pronouns wrong when they're right there? I know why but I'd like to pretend for a moment that my existence isn't controversial." Unless I'm mistaken, this just seems like randomly claiming it's transphobia on Glass's end, despite it being a mistake that he went in and fixed.
  3. Most recently, in the pet peeves thread, she was taking a potshot at "people making a big deal about leaving the wiki over their verse getting downgraded." Considering the verse she's been downgrading and the person that just left, this is very evidently a potshot at KLOL specifically - as he just requested a permaban from Ant. However, he was very discrete about this and didn't make a big deal at all, so she actively looked for his messages and proceeded to talk shit.
Click to expand...
  1. Going through the context, this was responding to a post which said "are my gifs just being ignored?" and "this is where the misinformation begins". Essentially, they'd both been doing very low-intensity shit-flinging back and forth, of which Fuji's post was more significant of an escalation than I'd typically like, but given how things were already simmering, and the user being insulted wasn't hurt by it, I don't think this is something we should take action on. If both people consent to minor mud-flinging, don't escalate it too far, and aren't hurt by it, I don't think we should intervene.
  2. Contextually, there was other weirdness, like this post. And then we get to the point where we're weighing the hurt. The hurt of someone being misgendered in a community that has had issues with transphobia, and a community where she's been misgendered before. And the hurt of someone being not-too-seriously accused of possible transphobia, not directly, but as part of a larger group of "the mass of people who have misgendered Fuji". Obviously we can be more confident of the intentionality in Fuji's post than in Glass's misgendering. But given how Fuji's post is referring to multiple people, I think it should be taken as fine. It kinda sucks for Glass to get swept up in that, but it also kinda sucks for Fuji to get misgendered.
  3. This post is a bit callous, but ultimately isn't something I'd find report-worthy. There are the obvious mitigating factors of it being vague and referring to multiple people, but even when I imagine a post like "Not too fond of Agnaa", I can't find myself considering that reportable.
And so, I do not think a ban or warning is justified.
Antvasima said:
Yes, but it is the overall continuous toxicity that I am concerned about.
Click to expand...
A user shouldn't need to re-roll the dice on whether they'll be banned every time someone glances their way for something non-reportable. Bans should only even be considered if a reportable offence occurred and is brought to the RVR for the first time (first time ever, or the first time since a rule change which we're willing to apply retroactively, or first time with new evidence that significantly changes how it should be evaluated).
 

vsbattles.com

Yhwach vs Kars

A yhwach clone would never actually get close enough to do that wincon due to the almighty. Yhwach would simply foresee the meger sponge and use any number of his hax to avoid it.
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com

"Sorry I just notice she / her. If I would have noticed it earlier, I wouldn’t been making arguments lol."

Misogyny attitude, I am not even female (Yes, I know I have "she/her" but I don't remember what was I thinking) but this type of comments should not even exist

If you keep reading the thread, others ussers are getting tired of being offended for other comments like "you lack reading comprehesion" and etc
 
Agnaa said:
Contextually, there was other weirdness, like this post. And then we get to the point where we're weighing the hurt. The hurt of someone being misgendered in a community that has had issues with transphobia, and a community where she's been misgendered before. And the hurt of someone being not-too-seriously accused of possible transphobia, not directly, but as part of a larger group of "the mass of people who have misgendered Fuji". Obviously we can be more confident of the intentionality in Fuji's post than in Glass's misgendering. But given how Fuji's post is referring to multiple people, I think it should be taken as fine. It kinda sucks for Glass to get swept up in that, but it also kinda sucks for Fuji to get misgendered.
Click to expand...
Actually, double checking and looking at the post. I think the "His" pronouns were referring to Pariah, not Fujiwura. Though "Fuji did so no he's not equally to blame here" does sound a bit open for interpretation. Probably is a typo that simply forgot an s to describe Fuji, but I can sort of see it referring to Pariah as "Not equal" could mean Pariah is not equal because he's behaved fairly tamely, or Fujiwura as Glass is calling her out as the instigator. Omnificence saying "Technically" does sound like something that would be red flags however.
 
Agnaa made good points here. If this case isn’t going to pass as being worthy of any punishment then we really can’t take in the occurrences in the past. Perhaps many think, even including myself, the past cases of Fuji where there were actual reported actions weren’t handle properly. Though, a conclusion has been reached for the precedents and we can’t do anything about that now, other than we can only take in past infractions as a basis for a harsher punishment if Fuji makes a further infraction in the future, that’ll be unanimously regarded as punishment worthy.
 
Deagonx said:
Prior to the edit it read:


Then Glass updated it to "out of her way."
Click to expand...
I see, nvm that then.

Agnaa also does indeed make a lot of good points that the most recent points do seem tame. While I can see an over bombardment of minor offences can eventually stack to become a major offence in itself, at worst she's mostly close to that and not quite crossing that line with the most recent reports.

As a side note, but TheGreatMaster12 is pestering me on my wall and begging me to unban him. I told him I do not think his appeal is good especially the way he initially opened up. Also, he was banned for harassing Firestorm across multiple platforms and once apologized for it and had a ban lift only to immediately go back and start behaving even worse. Such as derailing threads not related to DOOM just to call Firestorm a "Smooth Brained/Brainrotted DOOM wanker". And he's acting like he doesn't even know what harassment is and also sounds like he's trying to promote propaganda again. I most definitely think he should stay permabanned if he's going to behave like that, and believe I should take his allegations with a grain of salt unless he can provide solid evidence. But believe it's worth mentioning in case he messages anyone else on community central.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
As a side note, but TheGreatMaster12 is pestering me on my wall and begging me to unban him. I told him I do not think his appeal is good especially the way he initially opened up. Also, he was banned for harassing Firestorm across multiple platforms and once apologized for it and had a ban lift only to immediately go back and start behaving even worse. Such as derailing threads not related to DOOM just to call Firestorm a "Smooth Brained/Brainrotted DOOM wanker". And he's acting like he doesn't even know what harassment is and also sounds like he's trying to promote propaganda again. I most definitely think he should stay permabanned if he's going to behave like that, and believe I should take his allegations with a grain of salt unless he can provide solid evidence. But believe it's worth mentioning in case he messages anyone else on community central.
Click to expand...
Maybe he should stay permabanned, as he showed no signs of being genuinely sincere
 
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