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I agree with Lephyr, doesn't seem like a RVR and more like it should have been posted on the All Purpose Requests thread to have the thread closed. Which it already was.
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Rule Violation Reports (New forum)
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This necro is pretty bad...
If I remember correctly bumping after 3 months or something is against the rule? At least from what I have been told
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If you were not sure why report it? Why not post in The All purpose thread?This necro is pretty bad...
If I remember correctly bumping after 3 months or something is against the rule? At least from what I have been told
Arkansalter2
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Agreed. This should have been posted in the All-Purpose request thread.
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I appreciate your concerns, but this case has already been resolved. Unless you have someone or something to report, or can provide relevant information regarding an existing rule violation, please refrain from commenting in rule violations thread.
Mr. Bambu
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Not a major point, but in relation to the warning issued against Chariot some time ago, Chariot recently posted on the issue again and immediately took up the same toxic tone he held previously. On it's own, probably not worthy of rebuking, but in the context of it being an old discussion that is nevertheless taken up again with the same heat and intensity as last time, I have issued another formal warning. If these warnings do not yield results, given the short relatively timeframe between them, I will pursue greater punishment. The last report can be read around here, for clarity's sake.
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There is legitimately nothing to warn here
Mr. Bambu
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There is, actually. It is the same exact behavior as there had been before, which was reportable at the time. You disagreed then and you disagree now. This objection is noted but please do note that the thread is for meaningful additions, not proclamations of innocence that were heard in the last cycle.
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What exact behavior in this post is report worthy? Can you quote what line exactly that implies he’s insulting anyone because I don’t see anything there that’s report worthy.
Mr. Bambu
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This is blatantly not what strawmanning is, I don't feel the need to explain it to people who see it every day, but it is a common, practically trivial form of aggression to randomly namedrop debating terminology in arguments to accuse the other side. This is particularly notable here, because the last report (linked above) hinged on random accusations thrown aggressively around by Chariot.
This is a lesser issue, but worthy of note in terms of hypocrisy. Chariot insists that nobody (or, at least, not me, which I don't really hold an issue with) explain his argument, and then misexplains my argument in order to present his as the, as he may put it, objectively correct one.
This occurs throughout the posts, this is just an easily recognizable example from this particular post. I'll refrain from citing posts beyond the first, given that the report covers the first and was in response to that.
If there is to be discussion, I feel it appropriate to say Grath ought to have a significant say, as the second evaluator of the last report and a significant evaluator of Chariot's past behavior. I would be content to rescind the warning if Grath (or HR in general, really) felt it right to do so, whether in place of an informal warning or otherwise.
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What part of not understand what strawmanning is can be report worthy? This just sounds more like Chariot’s not familiar with the definition, which last time I checked I don’t recall “not understanding debating terms” to be report worthy. We just explain that they’re wrong and move on, assuming Chariot was misusing the term strawman. Which btw, Grath’s post you linked said she can’t really say anything against him for the strawmanning accusations, and moreso he’s being aggressive to Imaginym and the others. So far I’m not seeing anything that extreme beyond him saying you’re strawmanning and that you conceded to a point, which doesn’t feel report worthy on its own.
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I also evaluated the previous report and shared my thoughts on the matter while also pointed out things he said to me in the past. However, I think what he has been saying in the latest report is quite tame. I don't think "Don't Strawman" is really that bad. It's common for people to accuse mere misunderstandings as strawmanning. I can understand why each side might consider each other annoying, but I don't think he said anything report worthy within the latest report.
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I have no expense in this report, but I severely doubt he doesn't know what a strawman is when he's used it at least a hundred times and sometimes correctly.
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That's not the point of contention, though? The point is that mistakenly saying someone is strawmanning is not report-worthy
Mr. Bambu
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To his credit, in my experience, I don't think most people using the word know what the word means- it's a buzzword, little more. I spoke with Glass, and elaborated that I feel it is potentially irrelevant whether he knows or doesn't know, however; the word itself is used as aggression, a means of shutting down the other side from conversation by painting their position itself as wrong. It may be less bad if the word is used ignorant of its actual meaning (like a child swearing), but it still seems wrong from my position.
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His contention literally says something completely different.
Mr. Bambu
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This isn't really the point, it's a misinterpretation of the point. I don't believe it's mistaken that he said that- I am open to the idea that he doesn't know what the word means, but I do believe using the word is a return to the baseless accusations he was reported for earlier in the same thread. He didn't say it by mistake, he just doesn't know what word means what definition- using 'em is still seemingly a knowledgeable aggression on his behalf (judging by the use of the word he makes earlier).
Judging by the search Vzearr posted above, I would say he has an approximation of the meaning of the word, some of these are at least close to what it means. I wouldn't consider that meaningful normally, but the main defense is "he just doesn't know what he's saying", so it may be worth looking at that, speaking to Glass and DDM.
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My take is that he has an understanding of what the term means, but that doesn't make him immune from getting it wrong, not "oh he's clueless on what it means." And that's fine
Mr. Bambu
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So your defense is that he uses the phrase, he knows what the phrase means, and he throws it around baselessly, as he did originally, as was originally deemed reportable, and worthy of a warning, but you personally think it should not be, yes? This is duly noted already, it is duly noted again.
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Way to get what I said completely wrong. You act as though it was intentionally misused, rather than a case of one person believing themselves correct and another believing that person to be wrong. That's really not a problem at all, and for some reason, you treat it as one.
Mr. Bambu
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A person is responsible for the words that they say. They have to be the monitors of their own dialect. What they put into the ether must be evaluated with that in mind. Chariot is capable of self-regulation and looking into his own words. Per your statement, it is your belief he even knows what they mean- I don't think I agree, but this comment will address that as though he does.
If he is known to throw baseless accusations, and those accusations are an element of the preceding warning, and he knows that this word is an accusation, then it falls to Chariot to be more careful not to throw baseless accusations, whether as a debating tactic or in life in general. Once he says the word, he is throwing the accusation, and if one constantly throws unfounded accusations, as Chariot has been found to do and has been found to be reportable, then he is responsible for that. It's his fault. He can believe himself to be correct, most people should be doing that until proven otherwise. This is not at issue. What is at issue is the continued trend of making that into an opportunity to throw the insult and accusation, even when it doesn't apply whatsoever. It's toxic nonsense, and while it is the standard for many powerscalers entering DebateLord mode, it isn't right, and Chariot in particular has been warned for the behavior before. I'm not certain whether your feeling is that he lacks control over his own words he says, or whether we just cannot judge those, but in either scenario I don't think it negates the legitimacy of the report (and in the latter instance is just demonstrably wrong, that is the function of this thread in fact).
If he is known to throw baseless accusations, and those accusations are an element of the preceding warning, and he knows that this word is an accusation, then it falls to Chariot to be more careful not to throw baseless accusations, whether as a debating tactic or in life in general. Once he says the word, he is throwing the accusation, and if one constantly throws unfounded accusations, as Chariot has been found to do and has been found to be reportable, then he is responsible for that. It's his fault. He can believe himself to be correct, most people should be doing that until proven otherwise. This is not at issue. What is at issue is the continued trend of making that into an opportunity to throw the insult and accusation, even when it doesn't apply whatsoever. It's toxic nonsense, and while it is the standard for many powerscalers entering DebateLord mode, it isn't right, and Chariot in particular has been warned for the behavior before. I'm not certain whether your feeling is that he lacks control over his own words he says, or whether we just cannot judge those, but in either scenario I don't think it negates the legitimacy of the report (and in the latter instance is just demonstrably wrong, that is the function of this thread in fact).
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I said I have no opinion on this report, I was just saying why your reason as to why it's not report worthy is bunk.
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I find these new segments quoted by Bambu less rule-violatey than the parts quoted by Grath in the last report. And even those I struggle to consider a violation (closest I get would be "you know damn well what they mean, let's not pretend otherwise" for alleging the other interlocutor is deliberately lying, and "Because of people like you apparently" for making stat disagreement a personal matter). The hypocrisy is lame, but doesn't make it a violation imo.
In general, I don't view calling an argument bad (as calling something a strawman is), to be an insult or a particularly concerning allegation. I don't want to chill the ability of users to engage with arguments.
In general, I don't view calling an argument bad (as calling something a strawman is), to be an insult or a particularly concerning allegation. I don't want to chill the ability of users to engage with arguments.
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I, personally, saw those posts as a mild infraction. Not one that I really care about, so I was happy to leave it with just Glassman's informal warning.
But I understand if others want to do something more.
Mr. Bambu
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That's absolutely worthy of a warning. It's literally three responses of just the middle finger emote in a row.
Mr. Bambu
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That's still three, but duly noted. Still worthy of a formal warning, can't exactly be allowing that to supplant discussion.
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This is less of a report than it is a complaint and request for assistance. There's a growing problem that needs to be addressed before it gets any worse and it's prejudice against a group of supporters, that group being MGnF.
Certain individuals have made it their modus operandi to spread prejudice and hatred against anyone who remotely supports the verse with accusations such as this
Ironically, all their responses are indicative of one not actually reading the thread and I will also point out that the most recent report against pain was also on the issue of not reading someone's OP which pain admitted to so the so called accusations are no where near being baseless.
Here, pain's second reply moved to accusing me of insulting any and all opposition meanwhile, if one were to read my OP, you'll find that I did no such thing. It doesn't end with pain alone, @DaReaperMan chose to stick his nose where it didn't concern him thinking I was antagonizing someone who disagreed with me not realizing @NousGalia is a fellow MG goon as he calls us and wasn't disagreeing with me.
If one were to look into overall behavior, Pain is on the warning tracker meanwhile I'm not despite having a healthy amount of messages sent. Prior to the fiasco with Fujiwara, I was effectively nonexistent on this thread and have continued to remain so after.
In the last(?) spat we had against Fujiwara, staff had to step in on a personal level after investigating some things, it was found that the opposition were in fact ignoring things that were pretty basic so once again, our accusations aren't baseless. If my behavior is found to leave much to be desired as they've accused me of in the threads I've sent then dish out a warning or any fitting punishment, I'll take it, I simply request something be done about this stigmatization and false accusations before it develops into something like the last one again.
Certain individuals have made it their modus operandi to spread prejudice and hatred against anyone who remotely supports the verse with accusations such as this
If one were to check my replies (1st, 2nd) in the thread, not once did I ever accuse pain of not reading yet he has chosen to single me out specifically for some reason even after we've reached an impasse where after 1 or 2 replies we stop trying to convince each other and wait for staff.
Ironically, all their responses are indicative of one not actually reading the thread and I will also point out that the most recent report against pain was also on the issue of not reading someone's OP which pain admitted to so the so called accusations are no where near being baseless.
Here, pain's second reply moved to accusing me of insulting any and all opposition meanwhile, if one were to read my OP, you'll find that I did no such thing. It doesn't end with pain alone, @DaReaperMan chose to stick his nose where it didn't concern him thinking I was antagonizing someone who disagreed with me not realizing @NousGalia is a fellow MG goon as he calls us and wasn't disagreeing with me.
If one were to look into overall behavior, Pain is on the warning tracker meanwhile I'm not despite having a healthy amount of messages sent. Prior to the fiasco with Fujiwara, I was effectively nonexistent on this thread and have continued to remain so after.
In the last(?) spat we had against Fujiwara, staff had to step in on a personal level after investigating some things, it was found that the opposition were in fact ignoring things that were pretty basic so once again, our accusations aren't baseless. If my behavior is found to leave much to be desired as they've accused me of in the threads I've sent then dish out a warning or any fitting punishment, I'll take it, I simply request something be done about this stigmatization and false accusations before it develops into something like the last one again.
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Nothing Pein said in the entire thread is report-worthy. If it were, I would've called them out right there and then.
DaReaperMan's comment is also not report-worthy, he is calling out behavior he finds wrong out of the simple fact he didn't know you were colleagues or were goofing around (in fact, didn't seemed so to me either, but since the comment was fairly tame I let it pass).
As for your specific comments, I don't appreciate the constant accusations of being disingenuous. Pein has a different interpretation. That is it.
PrinceofPein
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This is dishonest, you were topic banned from MG due to your toxic behaviours and insults. You are not on the warning tracker cause it was not added
This is unrelated, but the report was seen as baseless, and nothing of note is happening.
You are here claiming someone is spreading hatred against you but here is literally what your posts contains
Now while all these can be said as you attacking the argument, so it nothing of note. You made it personal when you referred to as a narcissist cause I created a thread and got MG downgraded from 2-A to low 2-C. My arguments were deemed sufficient and accepted.
In fact you also said anyone who makes an argument that you do not agree with it obtuse (slow and unintelligent)
And that is after you said you edited that post 10 times to remove hostile remarks and all, I only wonder what the first post would have been like. But that is not all, this is MG fans in generally and just some snide comments you guys like making
@Tatsumi504 said to someone who disagreed with him
@DemonKing021 said this in reply to me creating a thread to remove 2-A
@EldemadeDityjon also said this
So do not come here and make some claim like you are a victim; I still stand by what I said; you and some MG fans think anyone who disagrees with you is stupid, hates MG or cannot read.
Also, this is not just for this recent 2 threads but just what you and some other fans of MG have been like in general. There is a reputation here and it is hard to simply wipe it off.
Edit: Just an addition
Let us not forget you @EldemadeDityjon calling me the R-word the first time I did the downgrade from 2-A to low 2-C for the verse. Or @EldemadeDityjon calling me stupid for creating a thread. I am not making a report for this or wanting anyone to be punished for what they said some time ago off-site; I just want it to be factored into the evaluation so everyone can know how they view anyone who disagrees with them.
Even though I have been treated like this in the past by MG fans, I read every thread with open mind and see the evidence one by one, and if it does not hold up to what I interpreted the standard to be, I have to disagree. It is called difference in opinion, that's how a battleboarding site works, it is not a cause for hard feelings.
@Tatsumi504 this is also you
Saying things like
1. For all the mentally weak people in this thread
2. Think a little bit
3. Each time you open your mouth your ignorance on the verse becomes clearer and clearer.
4. Man, this just keeps getting better and better. First staff and now a complete bystander is contradicting themselves. LMAO.
5. https://vsbattles.com/threads/a-small-discussion-on-maou-gakuin-resistances.154042/post-5775451
Also @Tatsumi504
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I did say it wasn't a report but a complaint and request
I didn't say anything was wrong with it either. It was an example to show a constantly reoccurring pattern.
If you would be so kind as to highlight where exactly? I'm the one having accusations directed at me while he was replying to others.
Pain singled me out specifically for throwing accusations but my only 2 comments on the thread shows no such thing. You've missed my point entirely
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So this is a waste of time.
here
All these comments trying to paint Pein as hiding, distorting or ignoring info, with the finishing touch of "that is your style".
The point is quite simple: Nothing needs to be done here. You need to stop antagonizing. Prove Pein is wrong and leave it at that.
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"Dishonest" but I never denied I was topic banned. I did mention the fiasco with Fujiwara as well. Said topic ban that was a result of you and fujiwara blowing what I said out of proportion.
While on the topic of Fujiwara, the first report against stemmed from her in which she lied that I had been reported multiple times trying to get me banned, unfortunately for her though, she encountered the sad reality that there were zero complaints about me and now in the end, she is the one who's permanently banned.
The point was to highlight a recurring issue when it comes to you.
Yes, expressing astonishment on my end is now spreading hateful remarks. Last I checked, calling an argument stupid isn't the same as calling someone stupid.
I perceive you as a narcissist, that's all there is to it.
And now you're twisting my words again like you always do. I said anyone who persisted on that single point, go ahead and quote where I said "anyone who disagrees with me".
A grave accusation as usual. As I remember correctly, my only edits to that long essay were to input staff votes. I'm pretty sure said staff can view a posts edit history so I'm imploring someone, anyone with the ability to do so, go through the original OP and see the heinous insults I hurled at anyone disagreeing with me.
Let's see if this too doesn't end up as another one of your numerous accusations against me.
What a surprise, the same message I made clear for all to see when I linked dareaperman's message quoting it and was not me antagonizing someone who disagreed with me but chastising a fellow MG goon who was cluttering the thread
When did my existence begin to overlap with any of these two individuals?
At least now we have some progress. It is no longer "you MG fans" but "some of you MG fans". The distinction I sought is finally being made, now the name of good natured individuals won't be soiled for associating with a worthless individual such as myself.
When did I deny this or ask that it be wiped off?
And we've recently come to respect that difference in opinion haven't we (you and I)? You state your thoughts, I give a counter, repeat at most 2x and stop, did it in this thread and the one before and yet...
Yeah all things that led to my topic ban, in other words, I already served the punishment for it.
Now you've still failed to address why you singled out my name only, accusing me of saying you didn't read when I have done no such thing. That was the crux of my complaint. If anything, your supposed beef in this one should've been with @EldemadeDityjon and @DemonKing021 still, my name was the only one personally brought up and to that I ask, "for what reason?"
PrinceofPein
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@LephyrTheRevanchist has pointed out the constant snide remarks you have been making and I pointed out the insults you made also.
I will let staffs decide the rest.
I will let staffs decide the rest.
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Not necessarily.
I see, thank you. I I were to offer a rebuttal to this notion...
Was me talking to planck. If a thread is built up to be counter, wouldn't you say it is only right to actually show what you're a countering? A healthy chunk of it was left out without putting the main argument
But I didn't lie though? Pain didn't mention it and it was infact one of the main points of the thread.
Out of line, I accept
Same here, if they're interpreting the scan differently, there's nothing left for me to say
In truth pain did close the OP of with "the scans are from volume 6 chapter (insert chapter), for those who want to read meanwhile, the other thread covered volume 6 & 7 with 7 being where the greater chunk of information lies. If that not willfully ignoring , leaving out information to you then I rest this particular case.
Duly noted, now I know where I went wrong at least.
My not antagonizing though? Pein was talking with @DemonKing021 where he offhandedly commented/implied the former didn't read the OP and yet only I was singled out specifically
"Tatsumi's post" already zeros in on me, "all of them's post" further adds me again to a group that said pein cannot read. Disregarding past cases, where exactly did I say pein cannot read in the thread? That's my issue
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