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Strict warning once more, if he continues temporary ban? That's what I think is appropriate, at least, I don't know everything.Reporting @RatherClueless for his behavior on This thread.
It started out fairly tame, and not that his opinion is harmful or anyone's for that matter. But the way he expressed and sort of attempted to shove it down everyone else's throats basically was. And a lot of those were really calling other people's viewpoints "Dumb" is rather inconsiderate and condescending. And he literally made posts about him literally "Enjoying people having conflicting opinions and calling their mindsets worthless". And it sounds like it's been getting into deliberate trolling territory. I have told people to calm down, but it appears he wants to intentionally bait people.
I can agree wholeheartedly to this. I was peacefully discussing what standards to make and how to refine them for greater flexibility and what had been accepted for use and then BOOM. He just outright disagrees with one of our Creation-based policies for which we had literally made rules for, pages for and even qualifying criteria for. And then it ended up with him antagonizing us and calling us biased. Never mind the derailing of course.Reporting @RatherClueless for his behavior on This thread.
It started out fairly tame, and not that his opinion is harmful or anyone's for that matter. But the way he expressed and sort of attempted to shove it down everyone else's throats basically was. And a lot of those were really calling other people's viewpoints "Dumb" is rather inconsiderate and condescending. And he literally made posts about him literally "Enjoying people having conflicting opinions and calling their mindsets worthless". And it sounds like it's been getting into deliberate trolling territory. I have told people to calm down, but it appears he wants to intentionally bait people.
Gimme a hot minute here. This should be fun.Reporting @RatherClueless for his behavior on This thread.
It started out fairly tame, and not that his opinion is harmful or anyone's for that matter. But the way he expressed and sort of attempted to shove it down everyone else's throats basically was. And a lot of those were really calling other people's viewpoints "Dumb" is rather inconsiderate and condescending. And he literally made posts about him literally "Enjoying people having conflicting opinions and calling their mindsets worthless". And it sounds like it's been getting into deliberate trolling territory. I have told people to calm down, but it appears he wants to intentionally bait people.
You already got reported once. Don't push it.Gimme a hot minute here. This should be fun.
I hope the same. Fingers crossed.Just to say, let's try and be polite about this and not clog RVR with a bunch of garbage.
I started off with clarifying that I was biased, so people should take my opinion with a grain of salt. I then continued giving constructive criticism which most people could even agree with.But the way he expressed and sort of attempted to shove it down everyone else's throats basically was.
Cloud Creation. Ring a bell? You explicitly stated this here:I started off with clarifying that I was biased, so people should take my opinion with a grain of salt. I then continued giving constructive criticism which most people could even agree with.
After that KLOL first braught up "Creation Feats" (which I didnt mention), making it look like I was pushing a narrative I wasn't (acting as if I wanted to revert those CRTs and trying to brake rules), so I responded.
Fully agree unless the verse is very specific about it. Characters scaling to some random clouds being created, even though they don't have any feats in the same ball park, is just crazy to me, ngl. This is even worse when physical abilities are scaled to it.
Common sense? Right, calling completely perfect scaling chains as BS is definitely common sense.Then Theglassman called me out on using common sense in an argument. To which I replied by saying that I dont see an issue with using an argument from incredulity, "Having common sense isn't a bad thing, tho knowing this forum, I guess some people here might actually think it is.", basically reffering to an unknown 3rd partyand anyone who says that everyone on this wiki has perfect common sense is a liar.
Because your arguments weren't good enough to serve as a thorough debunk of what I and Glass and V had to post.
Oh, and you antagonizing us and calling us biased isn't being made fun of. Nice. Impressive.What happened as response? I got called out and made fun of. Awesome.
You do know that the Message Wall is public, right? And if you think us calling your proposals as utter ***** is talking ***** behind your back, then I've got news for you, it's because you've been trying to propose the same rejected stuff for more than god knows how many times by several staff even after you brought up your "new points", I, DT, DDM, DemonGod and Bambu of all places didn't agree with you or your proposals. Heck, DT and DDM were both planning rebuttals for this specific topic and yet you had to talk about it on the UES thread of all places because oh no, I made a mention to cold-based feats randomly just to clarify ShadowWhoWalks's simple questions.Then I go and double check sth on my cooling thread and what do I see? People talking sht behind my back. My oh my, this just keeps getting better and better. Oh and how did I react to that? With an UwU to show them I am above their smack talking.
You were the one bringing up how standard rules were stagnating. That's on you. Also you being reported for RVR is a threat now?Then I got accused of a strawman, directly followed by the worst strawman I've ever seen, followed by a false accusation (the only person in the thread I've actually called out was mitch due so saying something increadibly uncalled for and it wasnt even in an antagonizing fashion.) and ended with a threat.
Buddy I don't think we need to even blink to call bullshit on this.
I didn't call you as not having common sense, but your proposals overall. Don't twist this.Here is someone actually saying I dont have any common sense, but thats fine after all.
You mentioned the "edge of the blade" first, not me, maybe you should have actually read the past slashing-piercing-based threads first before even using such an example?I also specifically asked for an instance of wrongdoing and an actual quote to it. And what did I get? Accusations of stonewalling, antagonizing and calling them biased. I already adressed the last two, so let me talk about the stonewalling part. Well, lets see. Hmm, most of my thread related arguments were actually accepted. The only things I kept debating past that point was others forcing a narrative onto me of wanting to revise the creation CRT, of bringing up piercing energy and of having an issue with cooling and cloud feats. Did I bring up any of these points myself? Nope. Heck, I was the first one to say "if you want to continue, do so on my wall." What was the response to that? Oh yeah, another reply in the thread instead of on my wall, forcing a narrative about me wanting to derail, followed up with another warning to report me here. Oh and I still dont have a single concrete complaint about what I did and "Idk, I cant rly point my finger on it, but he just kinda rubs me the wrong way" isnt worthy of a RVR.
Ganged up on, humiliated? Forced into responding about derailing projects? Are you serious right now? I SPECIFICALLY ENDED THE TOPIC ABOUT TEMPERATURE FEATS IN THIS SPECIFIC COMMENT and you proceeded to take it up a notch when you easily couldn't have. And you're once again calling us to be lacking in common sense and biased? Again? After showing your own? None of this would have happened if you hadn't taken up the attitude you did there and if you even bothered to read the Creation Feats CRTs to see why we scale how we scale and how DontTalk's comment works with that.So yeah, Ive been ganged up on, humiliated, forced into responding about derailing topics since they painted me in a bad light, talked smack behind my back and threatened several times with RVRs. What did I do? I said an unknown third party lacks common sense and called someone biased who literally said they'll never agree with me. Quite frankly, I feel like the only think I feel like I am at fault for is not telling KLOL to drop his awful attitude the moment I entered the thread, immediatley having him push a narrative on to me, even past me explaining that thats not it.
Not necessary. Please don't derail.After a few months of returning, I see it is the usual.
Pain
Sorry, but I getting flashbacks about 4 to 5 years that involved some similar situations which either involved a warning or a ban.Not necessary. Please don't derail.
OK. This is still derailing, but OK.Sorry, but I getting flashbacks about 4 to 5 years that involved some similar situations which either involved a warning or a ban.
Also I usually periodically check on the wiki from time to time so I am more or less used to this specific kind of situation.
Now that is out of the way, I will been the observer since I have no other further opinion regarding this matter.
no what I called you out was making a Fallacy for no reason other than saying "I don't believe it". You saying there's no issue with using it doesn't change the fact that you have to debunk the feat being a legitimate feat in the first place. If you don't bother doing it no one's going to buy your side. Also I told you in my second comment that the more you antagonize people by saying they lack common sense the less likely you'll get to have anyone buy your argument, and you're just digging your hole deeper here.Then Theglassman called me out on using common sense in an argument. To which I replied by saying that I dont see an issue with using an argument from incredulity, "Having common sense isn't a bad thing, tho knowing this forum, I guess some people here might actually think it is.", basically reffering to an unknown 3rd partyand anyone who says that everyone on this wiki has perfect common sense is a liar
Fair enough, but aside from KLOL’s inputs, are there other times when Clueless was acting this aggressive in the past? If so, I will think it might warrant a ban of sorts if Clueless has been warned in the past for this kind of behaviorOK. This is still derailing, but OK.
To give my opinion, I agree with KLOL's statements. Clueless needs to take a chill-pill, and should just take a strict warning.
Okay, I still found a lot of it weird assumptions that come from no where. Like assuming a magic spell equates to throwing a match in a gas tank despite being able to do so in an environment that has no gas tank or no match as opposed to just snapping their finger and a giant explosion of magic energy happens. But that's not the relevant part to this thread.I started off with clarifying that I was biased, so people should take my opinion with a grain of salt. I then continued giving constructive criticism which most people could even agree with.
You brought up a sub category of it to be specific which he was just trying to elaborate on.After that KLOL first braught up "Creation Feats" (which I didnt mention), making it look like I was pushing a narrative I wasn't (acting as if I wanted to revert those CRTs and trying to brake rules), so I responded.
He was just saying he finds it crazy that people are against "Every feat that isn't pure destruction" and even crazier that people find it crazy that those people aren't against them.Then Theglassman called me out on using common sense in an argument. To which I replied by saying that I dont see an issue with using an argument from incredulity, "Having common sense isn't a bad thing, tho knowing this forum, I guess some people here might actually think it is.", basically reffering to an unknown 3rd partyand anyone who says that everyone on this wiki has perfect common sense is a liar.
He was more so being rhetorical and joking, this is Bambu just saying "You will drown in the No's" all over again. Also, a simple people disagreeing you isn't something to get sensitive over.
Sounds like he was just mentioning the google definition of bias.What happened as response? I got called out and made fun of. Awesome.
Admittedly, making fun of usernames isn't something that should be public yes. I can talk to Mitch about that to maybe keep that to PMs.Then I go and double check sth on my cooling thread and what do I see? People talking sht behind my back. My oh my, this just keeps getting better and better. Oh and how did I react to that? With an UwU to show them I am above their smack talking.
Actually, he was just telling you he doesn't need to prove a negative. Saying something is "A chain reaction" requires more evidence that it's not a chain reaction. Not a logical assumption that there were random matches or gasolines that teleported because a mage asked them to...Then I got accused of a strawman, directly followed by the worst strawman I've ever seen, followed by a false accusation (the only person in the thread I've actually called out was mitch due so saying something increadibly uncalled for and it wasnt even in an antagonizing fashion.) and ended with a threat.
Actually, it was a more in general thing that a lot of users and former staff did in the past and some who still do. And he thought of you as one of them.
He wasn't saying you didn't have any, only that a lot of video games have their own common sense that he was concerned was being ignored.Here is someone actually saying I dont have any common sense, but thats fine after all.
You frequently said "This will be fun" or "Lovely discussion going on here" both of which are sarcastic comments that rub a lot of people the wrong way. And I have heard multiple witnesses saying that you have been doing this for years. And I agree KLOL's reaction was harsh, but his RL is already very stressful enough, a lot more so than mine most likely. And I would perhaps ask him to perhaps calm down or get some rest and let me and other staff take care of things, but you were clearly the instigator in this scenario when no one has really said your name. You just dropped in when someone mentioned something that wasn't suppose to be a primary topic but just the general premise was a simple concept on universal energy systems.I also specifically asked for an instance of wrongdoing and an actual quote to it. And what did I get? Accusations of stonewalling, antagonizing and calling them biased. I already adressed the last two, so let me talk about the stonewalling part. Well, lets see. Hmm, most of my thread related arguments were actually accepted. The only things I kept debating past that point was others forcing a narrative onto me of wanting to revise the creation CRT, of bringing up piercing energy and of having an issue with cooling and cloud feats. Did I bring up any of these points myself? Nope. Heck, I was the first one to say "if you want to continue, do so on my wall." What was the response to that? Oh yeah, another reply in the thread instead of on my wall, forcing a narrative about me wanting to derail, followed up with another warning to report me here. Oh and I still dont have a single concrete complaint about what I did and "Idk, I cant rly point my finger on it, but he just kinda rubs me the wrong way" isnt worthy of a RVR.
So yeah, Ive been ganged up on, humiliated, forced into responding about derailing topics since they painted me in a bad light, talked smack behind my back and threatened several times with RVRs. What did I do? I said an unknown third party lacks common sense and called someone biased who literally said they'll never agree with me. Quite frankly, I feel like the only think I feel like I am at fault for is not telling KLOL to drop his awful attitude the moment I entered the thread, immediatley having him push a narrative on to me, even past me explaining that thats not it.
Apparently, he has been doing things like this for years. I may have read something wrong, though, so correct me anybody if I'm wrong.Fair enough, but aside from KLOL’s inputs, are there other times when Clueless was acting this aggressive in the past? If so, I will think it might warrant a ban of sorts if Clueless has been warned in the past for this kind of behavior
Oh? This is new.You frequently said "This will be fun" or "Lovely discussion going on here" both of which are sarcastic comments that rub a lot of people the wrong way. And I have heard multiple witnesses saying that you have been doing this for years.
This is a first for me honestlyApparently, he has been doing things like this for years. I may have read something wrong, though, so correct me anybody if I'm wrong.
I'd like to clarify that I wasn't being harsh due to the stress or my country's situation, those had nothing to do with my response. I was particularly harsh because I've seen these same exact asinine arguments being dished out over and over and over again with no basis to them with said arguments getting debunked time and time again even with RatherClueless's "new suggestions" and just blatantly asking to prove a negative when in reality we've never had to. But I'll apologize if I showed my temper on this side, I rarely do so without good reason.And I agree KLOL's reaction was harsh, but his RL is already very stressful enough, a lot more so than mine most likely. And I would perhaps ask him to perhaps calm down or get some rest and let me and other staff take care of things, but you were clearly the instigator in this scenario when no one has really said your name. You just dropped in when someone mentioned something that wasn't suppose to be a primary topic but just the general premise was a simple concept on universal energy systems.
This is true, I never asked the staff members to gang up on you, I merely asked them to check my response to Hellbeast's thread, and granted, I did tell them that I was not at all happy that you just blatantly ignored my point about that sub-product of Creation Feats that you had issues with for the absolute wrong reasons, I did tell them to use that as a basis to judge whether my suggestions for the draft overall was correct or not. That was my main point. Nor did DDM ask for you to get banned, merely that you got a strict warning.Also, I never proposed a ban from the forum, but just a strict warning to stop derailing. And possibly a thread ban if going overboard or blowing off warnings. And no one "Ganged up on you" per say, just outvoted you. Also, when people stepped in to ask both sides to take a chill pill and calmed down, one side agreed while the other did not and basically attempted to keep it up. That tells that there is a lesser and greater of two wrong doers at the very least.
Anyway, guys, let's not clog up the thread too much with off topic shenanigans.
I mean, my guy, this sort of goes beyond just a difference in opinions.Guys I don't see how we can just take a step back an return to normalcy, we'll be better off calling this a result of misunderstanding.
Life do be like that, people getting heated over difference of opinions.
Though Clueless needs to soften his rhetoric, it isn't good to annoy people.
Like I said, he seems to have issues with what DontTalk said about not requiring a 7-B destruction feat for a 7-B creation feat to scale which pretty much puts our UES thread on shaky waters and Creation-based feats in general no matter how small a sub-category it may be like creating clouds or whatnot, even if he does not take issue with Creation Feats in general he is targeting an important aspect for which scaling is necessary. I would have never mentioned this part if I hadn't already asked about it in the main Creation Threads themselves which I linked where Agnaa, Ant and DT assured to me that the current words in the Creation Page account for it very well.Guys I don't see how we can just take a step back an return to normalcy, we'll be better off calling this a result of misunderstanding.
Life do be like that, people getting heated over difference of opinions.
Though Clueless needs to soften his rhetoric, it isn't good to annoy people.
Plus he now has issues with already-accepted wiki standards that were debated for months at an end with plenty of time for him to respond before they closed and the rules were applied, DontTalk's suggestions were mentioned in said CRTs:And by goes beyond a difference in opinions, I mean that Clueless is making an active effort to be annoying while calling people biased and bringing up previously rejected points, to clear up any confusion.
Here's the thing, I never made fun of his username (Even though I did find it funny), I made fun of his proposed CRTs. That was my main stuff.Admittedly, making fun of usernames isn't something that should be public yes. I can talk to Mitch about that to maybe keep that to PMs.
I mean, Mitch kinda did, so there's that. But as Medeus said, let's not clog the thread.Here's the thing, I never made fun of his username (Even though I did find it funny), I made fun of his proposed CRTs. That was my main stuff.
Yup I know, you even explained once.Snip.
That's just one apology, but like I said, I still hold you accountable for the other myriad of issues you pulled up on that thread.Oh wow, that's . . . a lot. Not even sure if I want to/should reply to all of that.
Also, although I appreciate the apology, the username insult was really the least of my concerns. I am kinda used to it (although it typically is ment ironically.)
Acting like a complete douche hellbent on derailing for the sake of derailing even when told multiple times not to and then antagonizing people for it is where I'd draw the limit on this. That's beyond sass.I'm not sure how I should react here...
None of the "insults" should have any meaning here. Clueless isn't going to spend the night crying about a joke on his username, and nothing he said was anything insulting enough for anyone past 12 to hold a grudge over. We might not all be adults quite yet, but I see no reason to not be allowed to be sassy. This isn't some high brow locale that requires smart clithes and a strict etiquette (or shouldn't be at least). Even if it annoys others.
Funny you say that, DDM's rebuttal is almost complete. Unfortunately DT is taking a break so that big thread of his will still have to wait but the rebuttal is incoming hard.For arguing something he disagrees with and "refusing to accept" he is wrong, geez, you guys probably realize but that's the same thing for youfrom the other side I assume. He wasn't constantly harassing others to make essays for him, just asking people who already answered and who said they will debunk this 100% to do so every month or so. The fact that he waited for all of summer after being threatened with a ban for "plotting to destabilize the wiki" is... I guess cordial is the word.
I dunno, couldn't he just contact the staff members involved in the CRT to discuss his issues once more before being given permission to do so? Also I definitely saw him being active when the Creation Feats CRTs were being made and operated. So why he would complain about it even after learning the CRTs were finished and turned into rules is beyond me. Seriously, spending 10 minutes for a simple clarification doesn't hurt.As for disagreeing with somethign that has been previously accepted... yeah. Sue him for trying to argue what he hinks is right in a debating community. Oh, why didn't he do it when the rule was made? Dunno, is not allowed to not be active? Are opinions a limited time event? We are all aware that certain logical problems with system cannot be adressed like surface area, but he isn't wrong for briging up something major. If you don't want to debate it then don't.
It seems you haven't exactly seen my complaints or Glassman's, have you.I just honestly can't see how you can argue for this to be a violation of rules in a debating site. Not without daily spam requestion for comments or personal insults.