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Rule Violation Reports (New forum)
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Colonel_Krukov
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Jeez, it looks like they've done this to a lot of profiles...
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Reporting @RatherClueless for his behavior on This thread.
It started out fairly tame, and not that his opinion is harmful or anyone's for that matter. But the way he expressed and sort of attempted to shove it down everyone else's throats basically was. And a lot of those were really calling other people's viewpoints "Dumb" is rather inconsiderate and condescending. And he literally made posts about him literally "Enjoying people having conflicting opinions and calling their mindsets worthless". And it sounds like it's been getting into deliberate trolling territory. I have told people to calm down, but it appears he wants to intentionally bait people.
It started out fairly tame, and not that his opinion is harmful or anyone's for that matter. But the way he expressed and sort of attempted to shove it down everyone else's throats basically was. And a lot of those were really calling other people's viewpoints "Dumb" is rather inconsiderate and condescending. And he literally made posts about him literally "Enjoying people having conflicting opinions and calling their mindsets worthless". And it sounds like it's been getting into deliberate trolling territory. I have told people to calm down, but it appears he wants to intentionally bait people.
azontr
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Strict warning once more, if he continues temporary ban? That's what I think is appropriate, at least, I don't know everything.
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I can agree wholeheartedly to this. I was peacefully discussing what standards to make and how to refine them for greater flexibility and what had been accepted for use and then BOOM. He just outright disagrees with one of our Creation-based policies for which we had literally made rules for, pages for and even qualifying criteria for. And then it ended up with him antagonizing us and calling us biased. Never mind the derailing of course.
Done the same thing in the Cooling Feats thread despite being told by several staff and calc group members that he was wrong. DDM is actively making a rebuttal for the thread as we speak.
DontTalkDT outright stated to have a rule made for it if it ever got rejected again.
DemonGodMitchAubin and Glassman were also part of the whole shenanigan and received no less bickering from him than me. That much should tell you the situation.
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Gimme a hot minute here. This should be fun.
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You already got reported once. Don't push it.
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I hope the same. Fingers crossed.
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I started off with clarifying that I was biased, so people should take my opinion with a grain of salt. I then continued giving constructive criticism which most people could even agree with.
After that KLOL first braught up "Creation Feats" (which I didnt mention), making it look like I was pushing a narrative I wasn't (acting as if I wanted to revert those CRTs and trying to brake rules), so I responded.
Then Theglassman called me out on using common sense in an argument. To which I replied by saying that I dont see an issue with using an argument from incredulity, "Having common sense isn't a bad thing, tho knowing this forum, I guess some people here might actually think it is.", basically reffering to an unknown 3rd party
After that I saw Mitch straight up say that he will disagree with me on anything till the end of time, which I called biased.
What happened as response? I got called out and made fun of. Awesome.
Then I go and double check sth on my cooling thread and what do I see? People talking sht behind my back. My oh my, this just keeps getting better and better. Oh and how did I react to that? With an UwU to show them I am above their smack talking.
Then I got accused of a strawman, directly followed by the worst strawman I've ever seen, followed by a false accusation (the only person in the thread I've actually called out was mitch due so saying something increadibly uncalled for and it wasnt even in an antagonizing fashion.) and ended with a threat.
Here is also some uncalled for misrepresentation painting me in a bad light.
Here is someone actually saying I dont have any common sense, but thats fine after all.
I also specifically asked for an instance of wrongdoing and an actual quote to it. And what did I get? Accusations of stonewalling, antagonizing and calling them biased. I already adressed the last two, so let me talk about the stonewalling part. Well, lets see. Hmm, most of my thread related arguments were actually accepted. The only things I kept debating past that point was others forcing a narrative onto me of wanting to revise the creation CRT, of bringing up piercing energy and of having an issue with cooling and cloud feats. Did I bring up any of these points myself? Nope. Heck, I was the first one to say "if you want to continue, do so on my wall." What was the response to that? Oh yeah, another reply in the thread instead of on my wall, forcing a narrative about me wanting to derail, followed up with another warning to report me here. Oh and I still dont have a single concrete complaint about what I did and "Idk, I cant rly point my finger on it, but he just kinda rubs me the wrong way" isnt worthy of a RVR.
So yeah, Ive been ganged up on, humiliated, forced into responding about derailing topics since they painted me in a bad light, talked smack behind my back and threatened several times with RVRs. What did I do? I said an unknown third party lacks common sense and called someone biased who literally said they'll never agree with me. Quite frankly, I feel like the only think I feel like I am at fault for is not telling KLOL to drop his awful attitude the moment I entered the thread, immediatley having him push a narrative on to me, even past me explaining that thats not it.
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Cloud Creation. Ring a bell? You explicitly stated this here:
Common sense? Right, calling completely perfect scaling chains as BS is definitely common sense.
Because your arguments weren't good enough to serve as a thorough debunk of what I and Glass and V had to post.
Oh, and you antagonizing us and calling us biased isn't being made fun of. Nice. Impressive.
You do know that the Message Wall is public, right? And if you think us calling your proposals as utter ***** is talking ***** behind your back, then I've got news for you, it's because you've been trying to propose the same rejected stuff for more than god knows how many times by several staff even after you brought up your "new points", I, DT, DDM, DemonGod and Bambu of all places didn't agree with you or your proposals. Heck, DT and DDM were both planning rebuttals for this specific topic and yet you had to talk about it on the UES thread of all places because oh no, I made a mention to cold-based feats randomly just to clarify ShadowWhoWalks's simple questions.
You were the one bringing up how standard rules were stagnating. That's on you. Also you being reported for RVR is a threat now?
Buddy I don't think we need to even blink to call bullshit on this.
I didn't call you as not having common sense, but your proposals overall. Don't twist this.
You mentioned the "edge of the blade" first, not me, maybe you should have actually read the past slashing-piercing-based threads first before even using such an example?
You bringing them up yourself is irrelevant, the fact is that you used these points to derail the thread despite us repeatedly telling you not to do so. And it was clear as day you were clearly intending to change our standards and use that as a crutch to aid your arguments on that UES thread.
Ganged up on, humiliated? Forced into responding about derailing projects? Are you serious right now? I SPECIFICALLY ENDED THE TOPIC ABOUT TEMPERATURE FEATS IN THIS SPECIFIC COMMENT and you proceeded to take it up a notch when you easily couldn't have. And you're once again calling us to be lacking in common sense and biased? Again? After showing your own? None of this would have happened if you hadn't taken up the attitude you did there and if you even bothered to read the Creation Feats CRTs to see why we scale how we scale and how DontTalk's comment works with that.
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After a few months of returning, I see it is the usual.
Pain
azontr
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Not necessary. Please don't derail.
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Sorry, but I getting flashbacks about 4 to 5 years that involved some similar situations which either involved a warning or a ban.
Also I usually periodically check on the wiki from time to time so I am more or less used to this specific kind of situation.
Now that is out of the way, I will been the observer since I have no other further opinion regarding this matter.
azontr
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OK. This is still derailing, but OK.
To give my opinion, I agree with KLOL's statements. Clueless needs to take a chill-pill, and should just take a strict warning.
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well, it's almost 7AM. I'll respond later
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no what I called you out was making a Fallacy for no reason other than saying "I don't believe it". You saying there's no issue with using it doesn't change the fact that you have to debunk the feat being a legitimate feat in the first place. If you don't bother doing it no one's going to buy your side. Also I told you in my second comment that the more you antagonize people by saying they lack common sense the less likely you'll get to have anyone buy your argument, and you're just digging your hole deeper here.
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Fair enough, but aside from KLOL’s inputs, are there other times when Clueless was acting this aggressive in the past? If so, I will think it might warrant a ban of sorts if Clueless has been warned in the past for this kind of behavior
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Okay, I still found a lot of it weird assumptions that come from no where. Like assuming a magic spell equates to throwing a match in a gas tank despite being able to do so in an environment that has no gas tank or no match as opposed to just snapping their finger and a giant explosion of magic energy happens. But that's not the relevant part to this thread.
You brought up a sub category of it to be specific which he was just trying to elaborate on.
He was just saying he finds it crazy that people are against "Every feat that isn't pure destruction" and even crazier that people find it crazy that those people aren't against them.
He was more so being rhetorical and joking, this is Bambu just saying "You will drown in the No's" all over again. Also, a simple people disagreeing you isn't something to get sensitive over.
Sounds like he was just mentioning the google definition of bias.
Admittedly, making fun of usernames isn't something that should be public yes. I can talk to Mitch about that to maybe keep that to PMs.
Actually, he was just telling you he doesn't need to prove a negative. Saying something is "A chain reaction" requires more evidence that it's not a chain reaction. Not a logical assumption that there were random matches or gasolines that teleported because a mage asked them to...
Actually, it was a more in general thing that a lot of users and former staff did in the past and some who still do. And he thought of you as one of them.
He wasn't saying you didn't have any, only that a lot of video games have their own common sense that he was concerned was being ignored.
You frequently said "This will be fun" or "Lovely discussion going on here" both of which are sarcastic comments that rub a lot of people the wrong way. And I have heard multiple witnesses saying that you have been doing this for years. And I agree KLOL's reaction was harsh, but his RL is already very stressful enough, a lot more so than mine most likely. And I would perhaps ask him to perhaps calm down or get some rest and let me and other staff take care of things, but you were clearly the instigator in this scenario when no one has really said your name. You just dropped in when someone mentioned something that wasn't suppose to be a primary topic but just the general premise was a simple concept on universal energy systems.
Also, I never proposed a ban from the forum, but just a strict warning to stop derailing. And possibly a thread ban if going overboard or blowing off warnings. And no one "Ganged up on you" per say, just outvoted you. Also, when people stepped in to ask both sides to take a chill pill and calmed down, one side agreed while the other did not and basically attempted to keep it up. That tells that there is a lesser and greater of two wrong doers at the very least.
Anyway, guys, let's not clog up the thread too much with off topic shenanigans.
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azontr
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Apparently, he has been doing things like this for years. I may have read something wrong, though, so correct me anybody if I'm wrong.
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Oh? This is new.
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This is a first for me honestly
I'd like to clarify that I wasn't being harsh due to the stress or my country's situation, those had nothing to do with my response. I was particularly harsh because I've seen these same exact asinine arguments being dished out over and over and over again with no basis to them with said arguments getting debunked time and time again even with RatherClueless's "new suggestions" and just blatantly asking to prove a negative when in reality we've never had to. But I'll apologize if I showed my temper on this side, I rarely do so without good reason.
This is true, I never asked the staff members to gang up on you, I merely asked them to check my response to Hellbeast's thread, and granted, I did tell them that I was not at all happy that you just blatantly ignored my point about that sub-product of Creation Feats that you had issues with for the absolute wrong reasons, I did tell them to use that as a basis to judge whether my suggestions for the draft overall was correct or not. That was my main point. Nor did DDM ask for you to get banned, merely that you got a strict warning.
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Guys I don't see how we can just take a step back an return to normalcy, we'll be better off calling this a result of misunderstanding.
Life do be like that, people getting heated over difference of opinions.
Though Clueless needs to soften his rhetoric, it isn't good to annoy people.
Life do be like that, people getting heated over difference of opinions.
Though Clueless needs to soften his rhetoric, it isn't good to annoy people.
azontr
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I mean, my guy, this sort of goes beyond just a difference in opinions.
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Like I said, he seems to have issues with what DontTalk said about not requiring a 7-B destruction feat for a 7-B creation feat to scale which pretty much puts our UES thread on shaky waters and Creation-based feats in general no matter how small a sub-category it may be like creating clouds or whatnot, even if he does not take issue with Creation Feats in general he is targeting an important aspect for which scaling is necessary. I would have never mentioned this part if I hadn't already asked about it in the main Creation Threads themselves which I linked where Agnaa, Ant and DT assured to me that the current words in the Creation Page account for it very well.
This is not the first time we've dealt with this. We were dealing with this issue well before today when Weekly was still unbanned and had qualms about DMC and DOOM, and I was there on both threads, that's why Gilver and Cyber specifically asked DontTalk to resolve this issue, which he did and subsequently made part of the Creation Page.
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Plus he now has issues with already-accepted wiki standards that were debated for months at an end with plenty of time for him to respond before they closed and the rules were applied, DontTalk's suggestions were mentioned in said CRTs:
https://vsbattles.com/threads/creation-feats-tiering-system-note-3.115043/page-4#post-4083459 (This one is of particular note since this is where I asked about adding DT's standards which Agnaa, DT and Ant told me is already there)
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Here's the thing, I never made fun of his username (Even though I did find it funny), I made fun of his proposed CRTs. That was my main stuff.
I could care less about a man's username in the end of the day and if I see them post dumb shit, then chances are you're definitely gonna see me respond to it. Even if it be in a mocking way, it'd never be to insult the dude behind the dumb shit.
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It was Mitch who did I mentioned in the post actually, anyway, let's not clutter up the thread with casual comments.
azontr
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I mean, Mitch kinda did, so there's that. But as Medeus said, let's not clog the thread.
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Yup I know, you even explained once.
But yeah definitely Clueless didn't need to derial with extra sensitive topic about creation on an already sensitive thread of UES. Such topics need utmost respect. There's a time and place to discuss things. These things have far reaching consequences.
Snarky comments on same topics doesn't help either.
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I will admit I went a bit far with the the username insult, and I apologize for that, I was being a dick there, I was mainly just joking during that
As for my opinion for how I’ll never agree on the topic, It’s something I won’t budge on, for years now this very same topic has been debated and I have a firm grasp on where I stand on it, my comment on how I’ll never agree with RatherClueless was moreso about how I’ve seen his side before and I don’t agree with it, it could have been anyone making those arguments and I would have said the same thing, that I will never agree with those scaling ideologies
Nontheless I apologize for insulting his username
As for my opinion for how I’ll never agree on the topic, It’s something I won’t budge on, for years now this very same topic has been debated and I have a firm grasp on where I stand on it, my comment on how I’ll never agree with RatherClueless was moreso about how I’ve seen his side before and I don’t agree with it, it could have been anyone making those arguments and I would have said the same thing, that I will never agree with those scaling ideologies
Nontheless I apologize for insulting his username
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Okay so it seems that RatherClueless was primarily talking about the UES thread and not the cold thread as I checked the comment so I apologize on that regard, but...
He wrote the comment in such a way that I was unable to discern it at first glance until I looked a bit deeper.
Also the rest of my complaints about him after this still stands.
He wrote the comment in such a way that I was unable to discern it at first glance until I looked a bit deeper.
Also the rest of my complaints about him after this still stands.
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Oh wow, that's . . . a lot. Not even sure if I want to/should reply to all of that.
Also, although I appreciate the apology, the username insult was really the least of my concerns. I am kinda used to it (although it typically is ment ironically.)
Also, although I appreciate the apology, the username insult was really the least of my concerns. I am kinda used to it (although it typically is ment ironically.)
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That's just one apology, but like I said, I still hold you accountable for the other myriad of issues you pulled up on that thread.
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I'm not sure how I should react here...
None of the "insults" should have any meaning here. Clueless isn't going to spend the night crying about a joke on his username, and nothing he said was anything insulting enough for anyone past 12 to hold a grudge over. We might not all be adults quite yet, but I see no reason to not be allowed to be sassy. This isn't some high brow locale that requires smart clithes and a strict etiquette (or shouldn't be at least). Even if it annoys others.
As for arguing something he disagrees with and "refusing to accept" he is wrong, geez, you guys probably realize but that's the same thing for youfrom the other side I assume. He wasn't constantly harassing others to make essays for him, just asking people who already answered and who said they will debunk this 100% to do so every month or so. The fact that he waited for all of summer after being threatened with a ban for "plotting to destabilize the wiki" is... I guess cordial is the word.
As for disagreeing with somethign that has been previously accepted... yeah. Sue him for trying to argue what he hinks is right in a debating community. Oh, why didn't he do it when the rule was made? Dunno, is not allowed to not be active? Are opinions a limited time event? We are all aware that certain logical problems with system cannot be adressed like surface area, but he isn't wrong for briging up something major. If you don't want to debate it then don't.
I just honestly can't see how you can argue for this to be a violation of rules in a debating site. Not without daily spam requestion for comments or personal insults.
None of the "insults" should have any meaning here. Clueless isn't going to spend the night crying about a joke on his username, and nothing he said was anything insulting enough for anyone past 12 to hold a grudge over. We might not all be adults quite yet, but I see no reason to not be allowed to be sassy. This isn't some high brow locale that requires smart clithes and a strict etiquette (or shouldn't be at least). Even if it annoys others.
As for arguing something he disagrees with and "refusing to accept" he is wrong, geez, you guys probably realize but that's the same thing for youfrom the other side I assume. He wasn't constantly harassing others to make essays for him, just asking people who already answered and who said they will debunk this 100% to do so every month or so. The fact that he waited for all of summer after being threatened with a ban for "plotting to destabilize the wiki" is... I guess cordial is the word.
As for disagreeing with somethign that has been previously accepted... yeah. Sue him for trying to argue what he hinks is right in a debating community. Oh, why didn't he do it when the rule was made? Dunno, is not allowed to not be active? Are opinions a limited time event? We are all aware that certain logical problems with system cannot be adressed like surface area, but he isn't wrong for briging up something major. If you don't want to debate it then don't.
I just honestly can't see how you can argue for this to be a violation of rules in a debating site. Not without daily spam requestion for comments or personal insults.
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Acting like a complete douche hellbent on derailing for the sake of derailing even when told multiple times not to and then antagonizing people for it is where I'd draw the limit on this. That's beyond sass.
Funny you say that, DDM's rebuttal is almost complete. Unfortunately DT is taking a break so that big thread of his will still have to wait but the rebuttal is incoming hard.
I dunno, couldn't he just contact the staff members involved in the CRT to discuss his issues once more before being given permission to do so? Also I definitely saw him being active when the Creation Feats CRTs were being made and operated. So why he would complain about it even after learning the CRTs were finished and turned into rules is beyond me. Seriously, spending 10 minutes for a simple clarification doesn't hurt.
It seems you haven't exactly seen my complaints or Glassman's, have you.
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