Rex Salazar vs Sora skill battle

[Bobsican]

Just go with most skilled irl assassin but uses a guitar as their killing weapon of choice. Here is an example of how the Six fight. (Rex should get more skilled after this)

Eh, at that point we're quite away from IRL standards to begin with, unless you want to lower the bar even more than what you'd want out of guitars obviously being rather eh as weapons IRL (For instance, why do you think swords are no longer used in war? Guns have rendered them obsolete).

Anyways, while somewhat notable and all I suppose, I can't help but still find it inferior to Sora holding on his own against Larxene (who is regarded as an assassin actually), Yozora and MX, who can make duplicates to fight alongside each other in synchronization.

Rex overcomes the hax via skill.

Eh, at best it sounds like budget YX, who can manipulate time and use elemental magic as well

He just literally didn't. I have a hard time finding the clips from before Rex started outskilling them, but the situation was literally reversed before this, so if you had only seen that clip you'd conclude that they had higher stats than Rex.

Hmmm... I guess that could be valid, but it still isn't as high as what Sora has displayed.

Rex fights a morals-off Six and is clearly relative in skill to him in that fight. They also train together and what not so... I'm aware that the alternatives are far simpler, hence why him going for the wall isn't an anti-feat since you can't conclude that he couldn't block the bullets from it.

Even so I've already established that Sora has better skill feats on regards of fighting large mechas.

He's smarter, intelligence being what allows Brainstorm to use analytical prediction in the first place. Good enough for you?

Uh... not at all, I'm asking how he's smarter to begin with, especially on this regard for the purposes of skill, not a mere affirmation with no source.

Wouldn't he have time to restore his light or smth? But yeah sounds like a very good feat then.

Light and darkness don't work like that in KH, but yeah beyond that.

I mean he stayed for weeks so, man's gotta know when to quit at some point. They don't go intangible all the time, but sometimes they do, so practically speaking Vilgax would still need to be pretty much untouchable.

What @Expectro2000xxx said.

Just ask Azontr tbh, he gets to decide that.

@azontr Please evaluate if apparently fighting for an infinite amount of time is valid for the purposes of skill or is just unquantificable/BS

Rex's skill also scales to Professor Paradox, who can carry on indefinitely and has done so many times before (0:40). Essentially giving Paradox infinite experience due to fighting presumably a bunch of opponents for a few infinities. This DOES NOT give Paradox infinite skill, but it should be above Vilgax' stuff.

Yeah.

Noted.

A lot of this is gonna come down to the Paradox stuff isn't it? This will probably be my last reply here for today, I might take a quick look here tomorrow but I'll be pretty busy till Friday. I'd appreciate if no-one tries to rush this debate/thread.

Surely at this point.

 

[YungManzi]

This is nearly unanimous, I think. I don't think anyone besides Greenshift sees Rex as being that skilled.

I personally think he pales in comparison to all other contenders for his category.

 

[Greenshifter]

No, definitely no.

Eh, yes?

No, it wasn't do to animation, as bob said they clearly have sluggish movement compared with the protagonist or even other enemies in different scenes.

One of them can possess Kevin by rushing at him, they have predictable movements but I wouldn't call all of them slow.

Could you post the video to see? Because the people who are supposed to be above him don't show feats even remotely near Six level, at the very least from the fights you posted.

Afraid not, it's season 2 episode 18 of Generator Rex. The fight is near the end of the episode. I can give you Six and Rex training, but Rex is obviously being very casual here.

Wow, didn't saw that. I was talking about the moment when Eon was temporarilly take down (which btw the way he fell is look like an anti feat but well) when Eon shot an energy attack and Rook defended with his blade while closing the eyes as if scared (which isn't only a big anti feat skill wise but also ended causing that Eon escaped).

Oh yeah that's a time beam and they move pretty fast, those can age any material to dust that they touch. Rook may have closed his eyes due to the brightness, if not Rook when holding back is only about as skilled as Eon. It's kinda like irl a skilled marksman with a gun vs a skilled martial artist, it's not really an anti-feat for the martial artist to think he's gonna die. Also if you were to assert that Rook isn't skilled, the entire verse wouldn't be skilled, even the people with blatant skill feats.

 

[Greenshifter]

This is nearly unanimous, I think. I don't think anyone besides Greenshift sees Rex as being that skilled.

I personally think he pales in comparison to all other contenders for his category.

Jag50 probably does. Also it was literally only a couple hours ago when I said that people shouldn't try to end the debate prematurely. I still have other skill-stuff that I can bring up, such as Rook's and Sir George's feats, Rex downscales from those characters.

 

[Greenshifter]

Eh, at that point we're quite away from IRL standards to begin with, unless you want to lower the bar even more than what you'd want out of guitars obviously being rather eh as weapons IRL (For instance, why do you think swords are no longer used in war? Guns have rendered them obsolete).

I was more thinking of can match the best irl assassin but using a guitar or a stick while disregarding speed, as a lowball of course

Eh, at best it sounds like budget YX, who can manipulate time and use elemental magic as well

The Consortium would have way more abilities and applications, together they're basically only limited by their imagination minus abstract stuff like souls.

Even so I've already established that Sora has better skill feats on regards of fighting large mechas.

This was brought up for Rex being unpredictable even against tactical geniuses, if I wanted to establish how well Rex fights against large mechas I'd have brought up this fight.

Uh... not at all, I'm asking how he's smarter to begin with, especially on this regard for the purposes of skill, not a mere affirmation with no source.

Brainstorm essentially calculates possibilities like a supercomputer it seems, so Van Kleiss being smarter than Brainstorm would allow him to perform at least as well as Brainstorm. Now Van Kleiss is relative to Caesar Salazar (who he tricked before, pretending to be insane and Caesar even stated that VK is much smarter than he used to be, Van Kleiss was also needed to restart the Nanite Project). Now during the original Nanite Project, the project scientists accidentally discovered the Dominion Code. As the name implies, the code could give its user control over the fabric of the universe. This code was stored inside five specialized nanites called Meta-Nanites, which were programmed to only obey Rex. All of the Meta-Nanites are required to have the complete code. Caesar's intelligence scales to this and he also stated that "for the first time since I was 6 years old, I have no clue what I'm looking at" when he looked at the portal Ben came through, however this would mean he DID have a clue what he was looking at when the scientists discovered the Dominion Code. Caesar is also the "father" of the Alpha Nanite, which can shut down the Ultimatrix' firewalls with a touch and then copy it with another touch. A feat no-one in Ben 10 has accomplished. Basically Caesar and by extension Van Kleiss are outside of Brainstorm and heck even most Galvan's league.

What @Expectro2000xxx said.

Also I think Vilgax just left because he was out of stamina, he literally crash-landed on earth.

 

[Bobsican]

I was more thinking of can match the best irl assassin but using a guitar or a stick while disregarding speed, as a lowball of course

Sure, I suppose

The Consortium would have way more abilities and applications, together they're basically only limited by their imagination minus abstract stuff like souls.

Well, I can't even check as there's no page on the site for them yet, in any case the average main KH character has more powers

This was brought up for Rex being unpredictable even against tactical geniuses, if I wanted to establish how well Rex fights against large mechas I'd have brought up this fight.

Eh, that's probably worse as Rex just becomes of about the same size with powers, which is no longer as notable skill-wise

Brainstorm essentially calculates possibilities like a supercomputer it seems, so Van Kleiss being smarter than Brainstorm would allow him to perform at least as well as Brainstorm. Now Van Kleiss is relative to Caesar Salazar (who he tricked before, pretending to be insane and Caesar even stated that VK is much smarter than he used to be, Van Kleiss was also needed to restart the Nanite Project). Now during the original Nanite Project, the project scientists accidentally discovered the Dominion Code. As the name implies, the code could give its user control over the fabric of the universe. This code was stored inside five specialized nanites called Meta-Nanites, which were programmed to only obey Rex. All of the Meta-Nanites are required to have the complete code. Caesar's intelligence scales to this and he also stated that "for the first time since I was 6 years old, I have no clue what I'm looking at" when he looked at the portal Ben came through, however this would mean he DID have a clue what he was looking at when the scientists discovered the Dominion Code. Caesar is also the "father" of the Alpha Nanite, which can shut down the Ultimatrix' firewalls with a touch and then copy it with another touch. A feat no-one in Ben 10 has accomplished. Basically Caesar and by extension Van Kleiss are outside of Brainstorm and heck even most Galvan's league.

That sounds good and all but that'd just be academic intelligence/hax, not skill for the purposes in here

Also I think Vilgax just left because he was out of stamina, he literally crash-landed on earth.

I'm not sure that makes this much more impressive.

 

[Greenshifter]

Well, I can't even check as there's no page on the site for them yet, in any case the average main KH character has more powers

More powers than everything you can do with Gravity, Matter, Anti-Matter, Energy, Space-Time, Elements of nature, and Technology combined? I highly doubt it.

Eh, that's probably worse as Rex just becomes of about the same size with powers, which is no longer as notable skill-wise

They still have the aforementioned powers while Rex doesn't...

That sounds good and all but that'd just be academic intelligence/hax, not skill for the purposes in here

I'd definitely argue Brainstorm's analytical prediction comes from his academic intelligence, he literally mentions his IQ before doing the feat.

I'm not sure that makes this much more impressive.

Well it's a counter against Vilgax' skill not being enough to deal with them.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

One of them can possess Kevin by rushing at him, they have predictable movements but I wouldn't call all of them slow.

Afraid not, it's season 2 episode 18 of Generator Rex. The fight is near the end of the episode. I can give you Six and Rex training, but Rex is obviously being very casual here.

Oh yeah that's a time beam and they move pretty fast, those can age any material to dust that they touch. Rook may have closed his eyes due to the brightness, if not Rook when holding back is only about as skilled as Eon. It's kinda like irl a skilled marksman with a gun vs a skilled martial artist, it's not really an anti-feat for the martial artist to think he's gonna die. Also if you were to assert that Rook isn't skilled, the entire verse wouldn't be skilled, even the people with blatant skill feats.

They casually only possessed the dude who is so weird that they don't want to possess him (like, with that scene it felt more like a joke than anything) and beside that moment the rest of the time the characters are one-shoting them with everything (like the characters just swinging their arm can accidentally kill them, or a defensive barrier).

I tried to search the fight on youtube an the only thing I found was The Six vs Rex or Agent 6, but not Rex vs Agent 6 (the Six also weren't actually skilled, except the spanish old man but even him just showed to be a bit skilled). I mean, in that scene you show Rex is only really using big attacks while 6 dodge all of them, the only time Rex could hit him was when he was mid air and 6 just casually cut the projectiles.

It doesn't really matter if they age things or are relatively fast, because Rook (and the rest of protagonist) are clearly fast enough to react to them be it by dodging or blocking. The fact that they are bright don't change how is that an anti feat, specially since other characters don't seem instantly blinded with its radiance, why would he hold back against a super dangerous enemy that put in danger the time line and why would he instead chose the option that let Eon escape? Rook clearly wanted to capture him and felt frustrated from let them escape. One thing is irl skill and another is fictional skill, irl skill don't really have any place in a list like this one that try to search the most skilled characters from fiction. That was part of my point, if who is supposed to be a super good tier in skill have such a big anti feat (two actually, since you mentioned how he closed his eyes in other scene) then the verse have serious problems and at best could be argued that it is inconsistent the verse, which would really disqualify it from the list do to the inconsistency.

 

[Greenshifter]

They casually only possessed the dude who is so weird that they don't want to possess him (like, with that scene it felt more like a joke than anything) and beside that moment the rest of the time the character are one-shoting them with everything (like the characters just swinging their arm can accidentally kill them, or a defensive barrier).

It's more sad than a joke... we were talking about their speed, not their durability. Also one of them phases through Gwen's mana attack.

I tried to search the fight on youtube an the only thing I found was The Six vs Rex or Agent 6, but not Rex vs Agent 6 (the Six also weren't actually skilled, except the spanish old man but even him just showed to be a bit skilled). I mean, in that scene you show Rex is only really using big attacks while 6 dodge all of them, the only time Rex could hit him was when he was mid air and 6 just casually cut the projectiles.

You won't find it on yt, you'll have to use other sites which I'm not allowed to link to.

It doesn't really matter if they age things or are relatively fast, because Rook (and the rest of protagonist) are clearly fast enough to react to them be it by dodging or blocking. The fact that they are bright don't change how is that an anti feat, specially since other characters don't seem instantly blinded with its radiance

I mean he blocked it, that's what matters most right? I don't see why Rook isn't allowed to be scared of someone as dangerous as Eon. And even then it's pretty OoC for Rook to be scared so the brightness-thingy I brought up still seems viable.

why would he hold back against a super dangerous enemy that put in danger the time line and why would he instead chose the option that let Eon escape? Rook clearly wanted to capture him and felt frustrated from let them escape.

Go ask him, like seriously he only goes full out against his former master where he uses a bunch of moves he's never used elsewhere. Said master also skillstomped Ben's less skilled aliens. Heck Rook literally has a shockwave-technique capable of oneshotting people with comparable durability yet he never uses it.

One thing is irl skill and another is fictional skill, irl skill don't really have any place in a list like this one that try to search the most skilled characters from fiction.

It was an analogy to make you understand the situation better.

That was part of my point, if who is supposed to be a super good tier in skill have such a big anti feat (two actually, since you mentioned how he closed his eyes in other scene) then the verse have serious problems and at best could be argued that it is inconsistent the verse, which would really disqualify it from the list do to the inconsistency.

Ben 10 being too inconsistent, where have I heard that one before...
Anyways nah, that'd be like saying we give people an unknown rating or delete the verse if their AP is inconsistent, we don't do that. Rook will practically always show the "is skilled" traits when he fights, so aside from stuff like closing his eyes in that episode you can't call his skill inconsistent.

 

[Bobsican]

More powers than everything you can do with Gravity, Matter, Anti-Matter, Energy, Space-Time, Elements of nature, and Technology combined? I highly doubt it.

Tech manip is generally just a method to do a power than a power in itself, especially for the purposes in here, matter/antimatter manip is pretty variable in itself and can just be hax anyways, with that in mind just check Armored Xemnas

They still have the aforementioned powers while Rex doesn't...

See above

I'd definitely argue Brainstorm's analytical prediction comes from his academic intelligence, he literally mentions his IQ before doing the feat.

That could apply for him, but we can't scale combat skill like that to others out of how intelligence is a rather broad concept that isn't exclusively focused on combat skills.

Well it's a counter against Vilgax' skill not being enough to deal with them.

Wasn't the issue more like this wasn't particularly a denotable feat to begin with for the purposes of skill?

 

[Greenshifter]

Tech manip is generally just a method to do a power than a power in itself

Fair.

matter/antimatter manip is pretty variable in itself and can just be hax anyways

Yes it's a potent and variable hax, that's the point.

with that in mind just check Armored Xemnas

Yeah that's more like it. Is this the most haxed character Sora fights?

That could apply for him, but we can't scale combat skill like that to others out of how intelligence is a rather broad concept that isn't exclusively focused on combat skills.

I'd say it applies to the verse or at least to scaling of of Brainstorm's intelligence. If you have more IQ than Brainstorm then your analytical prediction is better since Brainstorm attributes his victory to his IQ, simple.

Wasn't the issue more like this wasn't particularly a denotable feat to begin with for the purposes of skill?

Well I still disagree with that but I was just explaining why I brought it up.

 

[Bobsican]

Fair.

Noted

Yes it's a potent and variable hax, that's the point.

At the same time it's also hard to measure in the first place out of that.

Yeah that's more like it. Is this the most haxed character Sora fights?

Either that or Riku or Xehanort, yeah.

I'd say it applies to the verse or at least to scaling of of Brainstorm's intelligence. If you have more IQ than Brainstorm then your analytical prediction is better since Brainstorm attributes his victory to his IQ, simple.

Well, not everyone's thought processes work the same, especially when an alien species is involved, so I can't help bt be rather skeptical on this. In any case I suppose it'd be best to see what others think on this.

Well I still disagree with that but I was just explaining why I brought it up.

Noted.

 

[Greenshifter]

At the same time it's also hard to measure in the first place out of that.

Transmutation, biological manipulation, ... you name it.

Either that or Riku or Xehanort, yeah.

K

Well, not everyone's thought processes work the same, especially when an alien species is involved, so I can't help bt be rather skeptical on this. In any case I suppose it'd be best to see what others think on this.

I suppose that's fair. Van Kleiss also has a raw outsmarting an AI feat despite its processing power, if that helps.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

It's more sad than a joke... we were talking about their speed, not their durability. Also one of them phases through Gwen's mana attack.

You won't find it on yt, you'll have to use other sites which I'm not allowed to link to.

I mean he blocked it, that's what matters most right? I don't see why Rook isn't allowed to be scared of someone as dangerous as Eon. And even then it's pretty OoC for Rook to be scared so the brightness-thingy I brought up still seems viable.

Go ask him, like seriously he only goes full out against his former master where he uses a bunch of moves he's never used elsewhere. Said master also skillstomped Ben's less skilled aliens. Heck Rook literally has a shockwave-technique capable of oneshotting people with comparable durability yet he never uses it.

It was an analogy to make you understand the situation better.

Ben 10 being too inconsistent, where have I heard that one before...
Anyways nah, that'd be like saying we give people an unknown rating or delete the verse if their AP is inconsistent, we don't do that. Rook will practically always show the "is skilled" traits when he fights, so aside from stuff like closing his eyes in that episode you can't call his skill inconsistent.

The point is, except a specific moment for a concrete joke/sad moment they don't show at all how dangerous they are supposed to be, in my original comment in the other thread I mentioned a lot of things they could had do which would show how really dangerous they are and would make survive against an army of them an actually imprerssive skill feat. Yet in one scene Gwen create a barrier to defend from an attack an the ghost got one-shoted just by touching the barrier, in a another scene Vilgax randomly move his arm and ghost died (not his sword, just literally his arm), and several more moments like that so they don't appear to actually be a threat. Survive against them still can count as a survival feat to Vilgax I guess since he needed to chose moments to hide and recover in dangerous territory, but isn't really a combat skill feat.

Well, if you really want to argue that all those unskilled characters scale skill wise above the only consistent skilled character then you need to find the video.

Nope, because he had several other options, like move his head, his body, duck, etc. instead of blindly block the attack which as result caused a chaos that made him escape, the supposed most skilled character there ****** the situation with such anti skill feat that it can't be ignored as something minor.

So, inconsistent skill as I mentioned, which should not only invalidate the idea that the a lot of characters scale to his skilled moments and which should disqualify them from be in the list do to the contradictory feats.

The ball from a profesional pitcher can look like a bullet at the eyes of a normal person but the profesional in baseball still don't close their eyes in front of the ball. This is a irl analogy that contradict the fictional one you said to support your point and which show how important is to profesional/skilled people to have their eyes open.

That type of thing are actually frecuent talks, and the situation is really different because there exist the varies category for ap and the toon force power which basically justify the absurd inconsistencies in shows, something that can't really apply to talks about skill and that seriously go against arguments about such characters having a spot on lists like this.

 

[Greenshifter]

The point is, except a specific moment for a concrete joke/sad moment they don't show at all how dangerous they are supposed to be, in my original comment in the other thread I mentioned a lot of things they could had do which would show how really dangerous they are and would make survive against an army of them an actually imprerssive skill feat. Yet in one scene Gwen create a barrier to defend from an attack an the ghost got one-shoted just by touching the barrier, in a another scene Vilgax randomly move his arm and ghost died (not his sword, just literally his arm), and several more moments like that so they don't appear to actually be a threat. Survive against them still can count as a survival feat to Vilgax I guess since he needed to chose moments to hide and recover in dangerous territory, but isn't really a combat skill feat.

I can follow you to an extent but you're making them out to be a bit more fodder than they are. I'm literally counting on big numbers here, it's a planetary army after all.

Well, if you really want to argue that all those unskilled characters scale skill wise above the only consistent skilled character then you need to find the video.

I gave you the episode.

Nope, because he had several other options, like move his head, his body, duck, etc. instead of blindly block the attack which as result caused a chaos that made him escape, the supposed most skilled character there ****** the situation with such anti skill feat that it can't be ignored as something minor.

Eon could just keep firing and aim to a dodging Rook then, that'd have killed him. Also I think Eon planned for that to happen so it's more of an intelligence feat for Eon.

So, inconsistent skill as I mentioned, which should not only invalidate the idea that the a lot of characters scale to his skilled moments and which should disqualify them from be in the list do to the contradictory feats.

Nah it's just Rook holding back. Kinda like Saitama only showing off his skill against Garou. I doubt you'd claim that makes OPM inconsistent skill-wise and should thus be disqualified from the list. What you're saying has the same vibe as "Mandalorian got caught off guard by Storm Troopers which is an anti-feat to his skill, he's one of the most skilled characters in Star Wars, as such people's skill in Star Wars is inconsistent and no Star Wars characters are allowed on the list".

The ball from a profesional pitcher can look like a bullet at the eyes of a normal person but the profesional in baseball still don't close their eyes in front of the ball. This is a irl analogy that contradict the fictional one you said to support your point and which show how important is to profesional/skilled people to have their eyes open.

True, hency why I still think the brightness explanation makes the most sense.

That type of thing are actually frecuent talks, and the situation is really different because there exist the varies category for ap and the toon force power which basically justify the absurd inconsistencies in shows, something that can't really apply to talks about skill and that seriously go against arguments about such characters having a spot on lists like this.

I mean you don't immediately shaft someone's AP if they have a few anti-feats. Especially if said being is the god tier of the verse and he has 10-C anti-feats or smth. There are 10-C anti-feats in Ben 10 btw.

 

[Bobsican]

Transmutation, biological manipulation, ... you name it.

Well, look at Sora's resistance section, he has dealt with nearly every ability on the site.

I suppose that's fair. Van Kleiss also has a raw outsmarting an AI feat despite its processing power, if that helps.

Depends on context as it could be on something like chess for all I know, which wouldn't be of note here.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I can follow you to an extent but you're making them out to be a bit more fodder than they are. I'm literally counting on big numbers here, it's a planetary army after all.

I gave you the episode.

Eon could just keep firing and aim to a dodging Rook then, that'd have killed him. Also I think Eon planned for that to happen so it's more of an intelligence feat for Eon.

Nah it's just Rook holding back. Kinda like Saitama only showing off his skill against Garou. I doubt you'd claim that makes OPM inconsistent skill-wise and should thus be disqualified from the list. What you're saying has the same vibe as "Mandalorian got caught off guard by Storm Troopers which is an anti-feat to his skill, he's one of the most skilled characters in Star Wars, as such people's skill in Star Wars is inconsistent and no Star Wars characters are allowed on the list".

True, hency why I still think the brightness explanation makes the most sense.

I mean you don't immediately shaft someone's AP if they have a few anti-feats. Especially if said being is the god tier of the verse and he has 10-C anti-feats or smth. There are 10-C anti-feats in Ben 10 btw.

A planetary army of beings stupids (as you yourself recognized), made of paper and with slugglish movement, as I said is a survival feat since even if they are absolute trash Vilgax still get tired and need to find places and moments to recover, but outside of that isn't really a skill feat.

Weird, looking now at the comment it appear but originally there only was the clip, you didn't add that later with your edit?

That would be a different that don't justify at all the thing that Rook did because under your reasoning Eon could had fired more and more while he had his eyes closed (which would be actually a smarth move because with his eyes closed Rook movements to defend are highly limited). No, Eon clearly just wanted to distract them to get a chace to escape which would be enough to make everyone focus on Rook who received the attack, Rook by himself did everything else.

The situation is impossible to be more different, the entire character of Saitama is made around the idea that since there is no one that can give him fight he always hold back both in strength and itelligence, a concept show from the very first moment he appear until the moment of his fight against Garou when is revealed that he actually can be super skill in a completely serious fight. Rook in the other hand is a serious character that took his job serious and that seriously wanted to capture the character that is a danger to the entire timeline. Two entirely different context and situations. And I can't comment about Star Wars because I don't see anything of the franchise but there are probably more context and justification behind that I don't know.

One thing is have a few anti feats, another completely different is be portrayed in a inconsistent way through a series. Rook have these two important moments as anti feats, and the characters supposed to scaled above Agent 6 and that are comparable to the super skilled Rook have a mountain of anti skill feats, this throw away the consistency of the supposed skill the characters like Ben or Rex have.

So far there aren't really things that put Rex as a sort of skill god that should be on the list, and Sora clearly have better skill feats (which also seem consistent) that definitely make him more skilled than Rex.

 

[Greenshifter]

Well, look at Sora's resistance section, he has dealt with nearly every ability on the site.

Yeah, fair.

Depends on context as it could be on something like chess for all I know, which wouldn't be of note here.

The episode is called "Written in Sand", VK and Rex work together to stop an AI from turning every nanite on the planet into sand.

 

[Greenshifter]

Weird, looking now at the comment it appear but originally there only was the clip, you didn't add that later with your edit?

No the name of the episode was always there iirc.

That would be a different that don't justify at all the thing that Rook did because under your reasoning Eon could had fired more and more while he had his eyes closed (which would be actually a smarth move because with his eyes closed Rook movements to defend are highly limited). No, Eon clearly just wanted to distract them to get a chace to escape which would be enough to make everyone focus on Rook who received the attack, Rook by himself did everything else.

I mean he didn't close his eyes for that long right? Maybe he just needed to put in that much effort to hold off the time beam? Eon aged the time beast egg into a time beast on another occassion, it seems to be his intention to do that so he can get the other eggs.

The situation is impossible to be more different, the entire character of Saitama is made around the idea that since there is no one that can give him fight he always hold back both in strength and itelligence, a concept show from the very first moment he appear until the moment of his fight against Garou when is revealed that he actually can be super skill in a completely serious fight. Rook in the other hand is a serious character that took his job serious and that seriously wanted to capture the character that is a danger to the entire timeline. Two entirely different context and situations.

Yet Rook still holds back, blame the writers, not me. This is a thing that happens with Superman too btw.

One thing is have a few anti feats, another completely different is be portrayed in a inconsistent way through a series. Rook have these two important moments as anti feats, and the characters supposed to scaled above Agent 6 and that are comparable to the super skilled Rook have a mountain of anti skill feats, this throw away the consistency of the supposed skill the characters like Ben or Rex have.

They do? Ben and Rex usually hold back and clown around so... Also literal fodder like Sixsix are visibly skilled so. You'd need a lot to claim that Ben 10 is so inconsistent to the point that no-one is skilled, which would make vs matches very confusing since I wouldn't even be able to argue people can do the stuff which they are shown to do...

So far there aren't really things that put Rex as a sort of skill god that should be on the list, and Sora clearly have better skill feats (which also seem consistent) that definitely make him more skilled than Rex.

I'll count your vote.

 

[Bobsican]

Yeah, fair.

Noted.

The episode is called "Written in Sand", VK and Rex work together to stop an AI from turning every nanite on the planet into sand.

Uh... I don't see much of note here

Also, Azontr replied regarding the "infinite battles" stuff, so going by the above discussion, it doesn't seem particularly of note with the displayed feats and stuff.

 

[Greenshifter]

Uh... I don't see much of note here

I mean watch the episode, it's a specific moment near the end.

Also, Azontr replied regarding the "infinite battles" stuff, so going by the above discussion, it doesn't seem particularly of note with the displayed feats and stuff.

I saw it. I mean Azontr's answer basically comes down to yes it's applicable but experience isn't everything. Which is fine, still means it'd scale above every experience statement in KH and since Paradox consistently has this thing going on of "been there, done that" while also saving the world dozens of times when he still had a finite age, that combined with him essentially having infinitely long fights where he wouldn't really have much time to recover, it'd even be more impressive than the 7 generations of fighting darkness guy.

 

[Bobsican]

I mean watch the episode, it's a specific moment near the end.

Uh... I lack the resources for that.

I saw it. I mean Azontr's answer basically comes down to yes it's applicable but experience isn't everything. Which is fine, still means it'd scale above every experience statement in KH and since Paradox consistently has this thing going on of "been there, done that" while also saving the world dozens of times when he still had a finite age, that combined with him essentially having infinitely long fights where he wouldn't really have much time to recover, it'd even be more impressive than the 7 generations of fighting darkness guy.

It's more like it depends on displayed feats from there to begin with, in fact Azontr says as much or else it's just unquantificable. A character being "uncountably infinities" old wouldn't be particularly of note here if there's no further details on what that has involved of note, that'd be like saying someone with infinite speed has infinite skill out of having done an infinite amount of things, which isn't necessarily of note to begin with for the purposes of combat skill in particular to begin with.

 

[Greenshifter]

Uh... I lack the resources for that.

Can't help you with that atm.

It's more like it depends on displayed feats from there to begin with, in fact Azontr says as much or else it's just unquantificable. A character being "uncountably infinities" old wouldn't be particularly of note here if there's no further details on what that has involved of note, that'd be like saying someone with infinite speed has infinite skill out of having done an infinite amount of things, which isn't necessarily of note to begin with for the purposes of combat skill in particular to begin with.

Oh eh Paradox stops a transdimensional being from turning everything on earth into dust (with Ben's help), states that an Eon with the power to rewrite a timeline won't be able to hide anywhere in all of space and time from him and takes a more active role in Maltruant's time war which likely involves the multiverse getting nuked, Maltruant almost creating a new universe and the entire cosmology almost getting nuked by Eon. I also gave examples before this of what Paradox generally does or has to do and we know that Paradox actually fights for an infinite amount of time which makes the infinite speed and infinitely old characters false analogies. What the KH characters have to do during their decades of experience is also quite vague.

This will likely be my last post here today.

 

[Bobsican]

I'm going to remind that we're measuring skill here, not just general intelligence, and simply stopping universal or above threats isn't something new to Sora, several characters try to summon KH multiple times to delete the cosmology multiple times (With Sora stopping this 3 times, let alone him inheriting the memories of some other characters out of verse semantics, one of which is as old as Luxu), and then there's Data-Riku sustaining an accuracy copy of the entire main cosmology and knowning virtually anything of it out of being such space himself.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Can comment more about things, but the points and my stance is essentially the same as previously (basically that Rex or anyone from the verse is skilled enogh, specially on a consistent way, to be on the list) so after this post will probably stop to talk here.

Though before I go

I'm going to remind that we're measuring skill here, not just general intelligence, and simply stopping universal or above threats isn't something new to Sora, several characters try to summon KH multiple times to delete the cosmology multiple times (With Sora stopping this 3 times, let alone him inheriting the memories of some other characters out of verse semantics, one of which is as old as Luxu), and then there's Data-Riku sustaining an accuracy copy of the entire main cosmology and knowning virtually anything of it out of being such space himself.

Also this, skill is very different from general intelligence (reason to why Einstein isn't a skilled human in a combat related sense, for example), things like universal threats are also completely useless for this type of debates, same with pure hax (since hax qualifiying as skill depend on how said hax is used in combat instead of simply having a hax) so trying to used the fact that the consortium have hax to justify skill is rather dumb (specially since Rex defeated them with simple hax and didn't do impressive skill feats to fight them), but well as I said above will stop to post here.

 

[azontr]

People should preferably start casting votes so this debate can actually get somewhere.

 

[Bobsican]

TBH at this point it'd be best to let Azontr to draw a verdict or something.
BTW, if it wasn't clear, I'm voting Sora.

 

[azontr]

TBH at this point it'd be best to let Azontr to draw a verdict or something.
BTW, if it wasn't clear, I'm voting Sora.

I can't simply pull a verdict out of my ass, people need to vote on it lmao.

 

[Greenshifter]

I'm going to remind that we're measuring skill here, not just general intelligence, and simply stopping universal or above threats isn't something new to Sora, several characters try to summon KH multiple times to delete the cosmology multiple times (With Sora stopping this 3 times, let alone him inheriting the memories of some other characters out of verse semantics, one of which is as old as Luxu), and then there's Data-Riku sustaining an accuracy copy of the entire main cosmology and knowning virtually anything of it out of being such space himself.

Sure, but I was putting those as examples of the kind of stuff Paradox would need to deal with for an infinite amount of time.

 

[Greenshifter]

I'm voting Sora.

Counted, though I'd have loved to keep going till one of us conceded.

 

[Greenshifter]

so trying to used the fact that the consortium have hax to justify skill is rather dumb (specially since Rex defeated them with simple hax and didn't do impressive skill feats to fight them)

I'm more banking on the statement of them "getting their asses handed to them" which implies there's nothing they could do to stop Rex (aside from fusing) from outskilling them despite their vast arsenal of hax and also on the fight between the giant robots where Black Knight who's actually skilled (and even matched Rex in combat before) is the main pilot.

 

[Bobsican]

How many votes do we need anyways? Standard vs thread rules or something?

 

[YungManzi]

I'm voting for Sora too.

 

[azontr]

How many votes do we need anyways? Standard vs thread rules or something?

Standard rules. 7 votes with a grace period.

 

[Bobsican]

Okay, now that we're done on talking about skill stuff, how about we go back into the "actual" match?

I'll start, what stops Sora from doing something like this?

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Okay, now that we're done on talking about skill stuff, how about we go back into the "actual" match?

I'll start, what stops Sora from doing something like this?

The image doesn't work for me.

 

[Greenshifter]

I’m a bit preoccupied till Friday. I’ll summarize both sides’ skill per category and who edges out in what category soon enough (or Bob can do so if he wants to), then Bob (or I) can contest whatever category if necessary. As to answer your question: Rex’s shield.

 

[Greenshifter]

I'm voting for Sora too.

Usually you need a FRA or something but whatever, I’ll count it.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Okay, now that we're done on talking about skill stuff, how about we go back into the "actual" match?

I'll start, what stops Sora from doing something like this?

Okay, it works now for me for some reason.

 

[YungManzi]

Usually you need a FRA or something but whatever, I’ll count it.

I already said my reasons in previous posts.

I don't even think Rex belongs on the list. Dante & Rishia & Bullseye >>> Rex

So obviously I'm voting Sora, in which case my last comment was just stating the obvious.