Rex Salazar vs Sora skill battle

[Greenshifter]

All stats equalized, no hax allowed

Post-Omega 1 Nanite Rex and KHIII Sora

successfully executing a lethal attack (independent of regen) or K.O. count as wincons

Fight for the top spot

Rex Salazar:

Sora: Expectro2000xxx, Bobsican, Yungmanzi, azontr, Epiccheev

 

[Greenshifter]

I'll repost what I had for now:

Rex is a 16-yo EVO and Providence agent trained under Agent Six, Providence's finest agent and the 6th most deadliest man on the planet. Rex fights EVOs (humans turned into monsters) on a daily basis and saves the planet every once in a while.

Rex's skill upscales from Vilgax who (with only a minor resistance to possession) fought against an planetary ectonurite army for a few weeks without getting possessed. Vilgax also defeated the champions of 10 worlds and has lived for hundreds of years. Rex is also more skilled than Ben 10's bounty hunters (who Ben can match as a 10 yo) like Sixsix who's one of the worst criminals in the galaxy (meaning he's very good at his job).

Rex's skill also scales to Professor Paradox, who can carry on indefinitely and has done so many times before (0:40). Essentially giving Paradox infinite experience due to fighting presumably a bunch of opponents for a few infinities. This DOES NOT give Paradox infinite skill, but it should be above Vilgax' stuff.

He is also skilled enough to force the Consortium to fuse into a giant robot (or else they'd have been defeated), 5 people who are individually as strong as him (if not stronger) with the power to control all aspects of the universe on a localized scale. Granted they were still somewhat getting used to their powers (although Rex fights them again later on).

Now for Rex's precision: Rex has used his buzzsaw to make a perfect wooden replica of himself within seconds. Rex can also target and shoot the Alpha Nanite with the help of his goggles, so he also has microscopic precision.

Rex's adaptability: Rex adapted to fighting Ben 10 who used various transformations, 'nuff said (and can also make new builds on the fly via RE but that's less relevant here I think).

Rex's unpredictability: Rex deals with supergeniuses and leaders of military organizations on the regular and does moves that they do not expect. VK's analytical prediction should arguable be better than Brainstorm's.

 

[Bobsican]

Sora also fights monsters on a daily basis (Heartless, Nobodies, Dream Eaters, Unversed, etc) and is regarded as above people that have been formally trained for a decade (King Mickey).

Meh, Luxu has lived for 7 generations as a praised Lost Master and has managed to circumvent the original Darkness that has lurked ever since (with way more hax than the Ectonaurites), yet was still outclassed by Sora when they fought.

Eh, type 1 immortality is irrelevant for measuring skill, as simply being old doesn't give that stuff and all, please provide feats or something over rather speculative stuff if anything TBH.

Scans please, it sounds more like strategical skill if anything, however, and I'm not sure if this would particularly matter here considering that Sora's powers uh... aren't used like that ever.

Now those are considerable skill feat I suppose, even if only for accuracy.

As for the adaptability, well, I think I've already provided proof in here of Sora showcasing the capability to adapt to opponents with all sorts of powers, some even mixing them up out of inheriting the powers of other characters.

I'll remind that intelligence doesn't inherently deals with any field whatsoever, especially with how any rating above Genius on the site usually deals more on academic fields than combat, so that's not particularly denotable on its own without feats from the other party on this regard.

Also, something something Sora has already dealt with "fully non-blockable" sword attacks from Xehanort, who doesn't only dual-wield, but also change weapons on the fly as well, yet Sora has shown the capability to dodge and counterattack accordingly.

The fact Sora can also triple wield also makes him appear to have an higher edge on skill than someone that dual wields at best.

 

[YungManzi]

I'm voting Sora here, he's just more skilled based on statements above

 

[Greenshifter]

I- we didn't even get started yet... I was literally still putting in scans for my first comment after you voted lol.

 

[Greenshifter]

Meh, Luxu has lived for 6 generations as a praised Lost Master and has managed to circumvent the original Darkness that has lurked ever since

Did he manage to not get touched by it at all? Did the darkness have relative speed? Also that wouldn't be continuous combat would it?

Eh, type 1 immortality is irrelevant for measuring skill, as simply being old doesn't give that stuff and all, please provide feats or something over rather speculative stuff if anything TBH.

I'm arguing Paradox has fought an infinite amount of time before. Based on him being in combat when he made the statement and stating he has done so indefinitely before.

As for the adaptability, well, I think I've already provided proof in here of Sora showcasing the capability to adapt to opponents with all sorts of powers, some even mixing them up out of inheriting the powers of other characters.

Adapting to Ben should probably be relative to that due to sheer amount of aliens (in fact it was Rex who told Ben to use Cannonbolt after only seeing him in action once), Rex also didn't have a problem fighting Alpha who used different aliens.

Also, something something Sora has already dealt with "fully non-blockable" sword attacks from Xehanort, who doesn't only dual-wield, but also change weapons on the fly as well, yet Sora has shown the capability to dodge and counterattack accordingly.

Aight, don't think BFS dura neg would be allowed here though.

I updated my scans.

 

[Greenshifter]

Rex can also do this (where he visualizes the math formula's that the professor is saying), probably with his nanites.

Rex is also relative to Four Arms, who defeated Looma, Khoros' greatest warrior (she defeated every male of her species, granted males are weaker than females).

 

[Bobsican]

I guess I'll reply once more to cover the new stuff

Rex is also more skilled than Ben 10's bounty hunters (who Ben can match as a 10 yo) like Sixsix who's one of the worst criminals in the galaxy (meaning he's very good at his job).

Bothered researching and uh... simply having a bad reputation isn't a skill feat by itself, especially not regarding combatic purposes, in any case I don't find much of note for the purposes in here.

He is also skilled enough to force the Consortium to fuse into a giant robot (or else they'd have been defeated), 5 people who are individually as strong as him (if not stronger) with the power to control all aspects of the universe on a localized scale. Granted they were still somewhat getting used to their powers (although Rex fights them again later on).

Last part is obviously just AP and not skill. As for the first one, not much of note really appears to happen either, they barely start to be overwhelmed and just end up relying on that transformation to amplify their stats.

Rex's unpredictability: Rex deals with supergeniuses and leaders of military organizations on the regular and does moves that they do not expect. VK's analytical prediction should arguable be better than Brainstorm's.

First one is a bit eh, Sora has also dealt with an opponent that can do similar stuff, second one is somewhat notable, but it's clear Rex is unable to directly reflect bullets with skill, which Sora can do even when against several similar mechas at once. Sora has also used his surroundings to his advantage even while under pressure, so I'd say that's more skilled than leading with a strategy beforehand.

Did he manage to not get touched by it at all? Did the darkness have relative speed? Also that wouldn't be continuous combat would it?

It's... complicated, uh, basically, Darkness is a character that can divide itself into independant minds of their own individuality (aka, other characters), so technically no (he had to negotiate with it), but practically yes. in any case a "constant" war in Vilgax's context is rather assumptive to assume to be the case (As in, non-stop fighting), as simply hiding is within the realm of possibility, especially as he had to end up leaving the planet.

So overall that's not particularly a skill feat, let alone one relevant here.

I'm arguing Paradox has fought an infinite amount of time before. Based on him being in combat when he made the statement and stating he has done so indefinitely before.

Eh, that'd fall into the "banned" stuff in the skill thread as it's just unquantificable for these purposes IIRC.

Adapting to Ben should probably be relative to that due to sheer amount of aliens (in fact it was Rex who told Ben to use Cannonbolt after only seeing him in action once), Rex also didn't have a problem fighting Alpha who used different aliens.

I guess that's valid.

Aight, don't think BFS dura neg would be allowed here though.

I updated my scans.

Oh yeah, but better be safe than sorry, in any case it still shows that even a single lethal hit is easier said than done here.

Rex can also do this (where he visualizes the math formula's that the professor is saying), probably with his nanites.

Eh, could also just be a fancy visual/imagination, in any case the outcome was rather simple.

 

[YungManzi]

I- we didn't even get started yet... I was literally still putting in scans for my first comment after you voted lol.

Imma be honest, most of that stuff doesn't even seem like skill feats tbh.

90% of those feats are more indicative of his technology and genius than actual skill in a fight.

 

[Greenshifter]

90% of those feats are more indicative of his technology and genius than actual skill in a fight.

But Rex defeats people with superior intellect and technology to himself, Black Knight for instance who's basically an amped version of an upgraded version of Rex...

 

[YungManzi]

Legit, I can't see a reason to say Rex beats Rishia and Bullseye, let alone Sora.

But Rex defeats people with superior intellect and technology to himself, Black Knight for instance who's basically an amped version of an upgraded version of Rex...

So, he's more skilled than them and/or outsmarted them. How do you compare that to what Sora does though?

 

[Greenshifter]

simply having a bad reputation isn't a skill feat by itself

He's actually good enough to hold his own against the people with higher kill counts than himself. They're basically the best assassins in the Gen Rex world.

Last part is obviously just AP

Nah it explains their hax, they can't control the entire universe in that state but they can control the aspects of it. The energy/elements guy for instance summons lighting and ice, the space-time guy reverses time, ...

As for the first one, not much of note really appears to happen either, they barely start to be overwhelmed and just end up relying on that transformation to amplify their stats.

Yeah that guy's statement that they are going to lose essentially helps a lot. It basically confirms Rex would have beaten them without the transformation.

but it's clear Rex is unable to directly reflect bullets with skill

Eh Six can do it so Rex should be able to as well, if only later on perhaps. That said using his buzzsaw or putting his smack hands in front of him would have probably done the trick, so since Rex could have deflected the bullets without even using skill... going for the wall was either the lazy option or the "imma let White Knight monologue for a bit" option and it worked so...

Sora has also used his surroundings to his advantage even while under pressure, so I'd say that's more skilled than leading with a strategy beforehand.

I mean you already saw a few examples of Rex using his surroundings to his advantage as well. I think it's impressive that someone with that level of analytical prediction wouldn't be able to predict Rex.

It's... complicated, uh, basically, Darkness is a character that can divide itself into independant minds of their own individuality (aka, other characters), so technically no (he had to negotiate with it), but practically yes.

Uh? But like why can't het get hit by it, is it also game over if he gets hit by it once?

in any case a "constant" war in Vilgax's context is rather assumptive to assume to be the case (As in, non-stop fighting), as simply hiding is within the realm of possibility, especially as he had to end up leaving the planet.

Vilgax does not know how to hide, this was established later on in the episode, I kid you not.

Eh, that'd fall into the "banned" stuff in the skill thread as it's just unquantificable for these purposes IIRC.

Eh, well I hope not even though being too OP for the list does have its allure. But don't see why this would be banned, it's just infinite fighting experience (which was allowed before with another character iirc), treat it like an arbitrarely large amount of experience since I assume the skill gained from fighting the same opponent for t increases to infinity would go near zero (Asymptotic Behavior).

in any case it still shows that even a single lethal hit is easier said than done here.

That is true, Sora should be able to block with his keyblade here.

Eh, could also just be a fancy visual/imagination, in any case the outcome was rather simple.

Yeah.

I also put some extra stuff with Princess Looma above.

 

[Greenshifter]

So, he's more skilled than them and/or outsmarted them. How do you compare that to what Sora does though?

It'd be something like Sora putting up a fight against X-blade Xehanort despite all the crazy hax that he has.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I already commented previously my opinion about the "skill" feats Rex and Ben 10 so I believe Sora is more skilled than Rex (though he also have some things that sound more like unquantifiable hax than skill but still better in general than Rex).

 

[YungManzi]

It'd be something like Sora putting up a fight against X-blade Xehanort despite all the crazy hax that he has.

Eh, if it’s the fight I saw on YouTube, it’s really not that crazy tbh.

 

[Greenshifter]

I already commented previously my opinion about the "skill" feats Rex and Ben 10 so I believe Sora is more skilled than Rex (though he also have some things that sound more like unquantifiable hax than skill but still better in general than Rex).

Wasn't the extent of your comment "someone said it wasn't actually skill in some thread" and "Rex shouldn't be allowed on the list"?

Eh, if it’s the fight I saw on YouTube, it’s really not that crazy tbh.

This should give a better overview of their powers. I just showed the part where Rex dominated them. Also keep in mind that the statement of them losing applies to a prolonged battle, so anything they can imagine which their power has jurisdiction over is on the table.

 

[azontr]

What are the current conclusions for this thread? (God I sound like Ant)

 

[Greenshifter]

LMAO, idk we're in the middle of debating. Bob probably wants to know if infinite fighting experience counts as a "non-bullshit skill feat".

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Wasn't the extent of your comment "someone said it wasn't actually skill in some thread" and "Rex shouldn't be allowed on the list"?

That someone was me, in a previous tournament match I commented about the "skill feats" and how they aren't skill or are low skill.

 

[Greenshifter]

Could you repost the reasoning please?

 

[Epiccheev]

that one scene in the fight against Xenmas when Sora and Riku deflect omnidirectional laser danmaku is cooler than anything in the X-blade fight imo.

17:53

 

[Epiccheev]

Looking at the poor video quality i should probably have linked the HD remake instead.
Edit: done

 

[Greenshifter]

that one scene in the fight against Xenmas when Sora and Riku deflect omnidirectional laser danmaku is cooler than anything in the X-blade fight imo.

Cooler? Certainly.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Could you repost the reasoning please?

Gime some minutes that I'm with my phone instead of the pc.

 

[Greenshifter]

Sorry but if this is supposed to make Vilgax or team Ben 10 look impressive then it didn't work because the ghost literally die with one touch from any character (there is one attack from Gwen and Kevin that pass through them but literally all the rest kill them, even when Gwen did a shield to defend), the ghost also don't really use the number advantage (like, there is three or four ghost attacking at the same time at most in all the video, the rest of the ghost just see without doing anything), don't attack super fast or make a great amout of attacks, they don't even seem to use their intagibility in a smarth way like some of the ghost at the distance slipping to the ground and hold their legs by surprise so they can move temporally or as a mean to possess them since they are supposed to just need one touch.

Nah it's for the ghosts' speed and someone asked the scan a bit back. The impressive stuff is off-screen where Vilgax takes on hordes of those at once as shown in a flashback.

Expectro2000xxx said:
From this the only thing I can get it's that they at least have some level of acrobatics and that that cane it's really durable since it can block a energy blade that I suppose melt things. Not a great amount of attacks, not a great use of the rest of the body (like kicking the legs of the other side or use kicks in general), not complex technique, not a insene analysis/prediction of the moves of the other part, not a immense use of the elements in the surroundings to take advatange, not feints, not a great use of powers from Eon side (since he could use them to teleport himself or attacks randomly to make harder to defend against him, don't use them hinder Paradox by making for example a portal were he is going to step so he could destabilize him, etc), and more things I could say. Sorry, but I genuinely can't believe from that video that the characters involucrated are supposed to have a infinite level of skill.

I mean they scale above people who do show a lot of skill and under people who show really good skill feats. So the way the fights are portrayed for non-ninja/bounty hunter type characters don't really reflect how skilled they really are since they can beat those ninja/bounty hunter type characters in straight H2H combat. So if you wanna claim inconsistency on this thing, you'd have to essentially scale the characters like Master Kundo who are introduced to fit the narrative of OP martial artist under his own skill feats. Meanwhile I just interpret it as the characters not showing off their skill against equal opponents unless their shtick is showing off their skill. Also I never claimed Paradox had infinite skill btw, only infinite experience, big difference.

Nah it's for the ghosts' speed and someone asked the scan a bit back. The impressive stuff is off-screen where Vilgax takes on hordes of those at once as shown in a flashback.

Expectro: Can you show it the video flashback because from that video as I said the ghost don't look impressive, and if in the flashback he is surrounded by hundred or thousand of ghost but in the end just 3 or 5 attack at the same time at most then it would sound really amazing, if it's also considered how slow they seem to be, unintelligent (except the leader that seem to have a normal level of intelligence) and be made of crystal since basically anything show in the video one-shot them (the sword, eyes beams and even in one moment Vilgax just swung his arm and one ghost died).

Greenshifter said:
I mean they scale above people who do show a lot of skill and under people who show really good skill feats. So the way the fights are portrayed for non-ninja/bounty hunter type characters don't really reflect how skilled they really are since they can beat those ninja/bounty hunter type characters in straight H2H combat. So if you wanna claim inconsistency on this thing, you'd have to essentially scale the characters like Master Kundo who are introduced to fit the narrative of OP martial artist under his own skill feats. Meanwhile I just interpret it as the characters not showing off their skill against equal opponents unless their shtick is showing off their skill. Also I never claimed Paradox had infinite skill btw, only infinite experience, big difference.

Expectro: Can you say the characters above who they scale, the reason of why the scale in skill and show their impressive skill feats? Because the things I said aren't something related to the flashiness or coolness of a fight, things like feints and the analysis of the opponent moves it's something basic of combat, the use of the surrounding to take advantage it's also pretty important as show in several series or even combats in real life, the number of attacks they made between that clip and the clip of the previous part I think was less than 20 and that's a number really low for a fight between persons that are equally strong (and now that I think about it they don't even dodged or tried to dodge many attacks, which is something obviously basic in combat and that every person fighting would want to do), the user of the rest of the body like the legs it's also very important since a kick can do a great amount of damage (like if for example when they were blocking weapons one of them launched a kick to the other the one who did that would have be at a great advantage), the use of powers in creative and effective ways it's also important because it give a obviously advantage (like for example, if when they were clashing weapons Eon made a portal in the side of Paradox to punch him with his other hand or summon subordinates that attacked in that moment when Paradox was vulnerable), if they just use they powers in specific moments and in ways that aren't really great then don't matter much if they actually have them. It's a lack of some many things important in a fights, a combination of elements that go completely against the idea that they actually are skilled fighters or that had infinite experience.

IIrc the blue alien that it's the companion of Ben in that video (the dude in the other motorcycle) was a skilled fighter no? Can you confirm it? And if that's the case Paradox and Eon are supposed to scale above him?

The thread ended after this since I got timed out (grace was over) by the Garou stans.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Found, it was here and here.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Oh, you found it faster.

 

[Greenshifter]

Expectro: Can you show it the video flashback because from that video as I said the ghost don't look impressive, and if in the flashback he is surrounded by hundred or thousand of ghost but in the end just 3 or 5 attack at the same time at most then it would sound really amazing, if it's also considered how slow they seem to be, unintelligent (except the leader that seem to have a normal level of intelligence) and be made of crystal since basically anything show in the video one-shot them (the sword, eyes beams and even in one moment Vilgax just swung his arm and one ghost died).

Well they're not slow, they are unintelligent fodder, kinda like an army of heartless but with insta-death touch (or in this case possession).

Expectro: Can you say the characters above who they scale, the reason of why the scale in skill and show their impressive skill feats? Because the things I said aren't something related to the flashiness or coolness of a fight, things like feints and the analysis of the opponent moves it's something basic of combat, the use of the surrounding to take advantage it's also pretty important as show in several series or even combats in real life, the number of attacks they made between that clip and the clip of the previous part I think was less than 20 and that's a number really low for a fight between persons that are equally strong (and now that I think about it they don't even dodged or tried to dodge many attacks, which is something obviously basic in combat and that every person fighting would want to do), the user of the rest of the body like the legs it's also very important since a kick can do a great amount of damage (like if for example when they were blocking weapons one of them launched a kick to the other the one who did that would have be at a great advantage), the use of powers in creative and effective ways it's also important because it give a obviously advantage (like for example, if when they were clashing weapons Eon made a portal in the side of Paradox to punch him with his other hand or summon subordinates that attacked in that moment when Paradox was vulnerable), if they just use they powers in specific moments and in ways that aren't really great then don't matter much if they actually have them. It's a lack of some many things important in a fights, a combination of elements that go completely against the idea that they actually are skilled fighters or that had infinite experience.

IIrc the blue alien that it's the companion of Ben in that video (the dude in the other motorcycle) was a skilled fighter no? Can you confirm it? And if that's the case Paradox and Eon are supposed to scale above him?

I gave some examples in this thread already, here's some more. I don't know why you get the impression Paradox and Eon aren't analyzing each other's moves. Paradox was also keeping Eon busy essentially. Rook (the alien with the blue suit) is like the most skilled character in Ben 10 & Gen Rex (but I didn't wanna bring him up since Rex is better for miscellaneous).

 

[Epiccheev]

tbh if Ben 10 was a light novel and there was a vague saying that he fought an army of ectonurites it would sound far more impressive. This is a case where poor visual feedback made it seem way more fodder. Specially when he just offscreens them after such meh showing.

 

[Greenshifter]

tbh if Ben 10 was a light novel and there was a vague saying that he fought an army of ectonurites it would sound far more impressive. This is a case where poor visual feedback made it seem way more fodder. Specially when he just offscreens them after such meh showing.

Actually he offscreens them before the meh showing, he's exhausted when he fights them for the second time (and still easily deals with them minus Zs'Skayr). (Unless you're talking about those 5 seconds which really don't give us much) Also IIRC there is a novel of that episode, maybe I should have just used that instead LMAO.

 

[Bobsican]

Anything in particular left I should reply to? It seems some stuff was covered while I was away.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

tbh if Ben 10 was a light novel and there was a vague saying that he fought an army of ectonurites it would sound far more impressive. This is a case where poor visual feedback made it seem way more fodder. Specially when he just offscreens them after such meh showing.

While in that case is true that it would be probably more impressive (since there wouldn't exist such big meh showing) by itself still wouldn't be much, to make a really important skill feat (in that context) it would need to be show that they have a high skill level (a bit like how I showed in the other thread the general skill level of people in the Arifureta verse).

Well they're not slow, they are unintelligent fodder, kinda like an army of heartless but with insta-death touch (or in this case possession).

I gave some examples in this thread already, here's some more. I don't know why you get the impression Paradox and Eon aren't analyzing each other's moves. Paradox was also keeping Eon busy essentially. Rook (the alien with the blue suit) is like the most skilled character in Ben 10 & Gen Rex (but I didn't wanna bring him up since Rex is better for miscellaneous).

The are show to clearly be slow, and if you recognize that they are unintelligent fodder then they really don't help to prove your point that Vilgax is suppert skill for defeat them, specially with the various things I commented about them.

Don't remember that you brought examples in that thread, and while Six is really cool and is skilled I would like to hear the reason of why Paradox, Eon or even Rex are supposed to be above him skill wise (not stat or power wise). Because they aren't showing absolutely any hint that they are analyzing the opponent movement, that they are predicting (in combat) their next move or are showing anything that can be considered really skilled (except the tiny bit acrobatics of Paradox). I asked about Rook because when he barely defended against the attack of Eon he closed his eyes, which I don't think I actually need to point out how much of a anti feat that is to his skill.

 

[Greenshifter]

Anything in particular left I should reply to? It seems some stuff was covered while I was away.

My entire post?

 

[Bobsican]

He's actually good enough to hold his own against the people with higher kill counts than himself. They're basically the best assassins in the Gen Rex world.

Uh... without feats this seems rather unquantificable, this isn't much different from claiming that someone in X verse is "strong" by beating a god, and so this can vary a lot by itself, to say the least.

Nah it explains their hax, they can't control the entire universe in that state but they can control the aspects of it. The energy/elements guy for instance summons lighting and ice, the space-time guy reverses time, ...

Then hax, it's still not really skill in any case

Yeah that guy's statement that they are going to lose essentially helps a lot. It basically confirms Rex would have beaten them without the transformation.

Sure, but that's not inherently out of skill, from the look of things he just had better stats all around.

Eh Six can do it so Rex should be able to as well, if only later on perhaps. That said using his buzzsaw or putting his smack hands in front of him would have probably done the trick, so since Rex could have deflected the bullets without even using skill... going for the wall was either the lazy option or the "imma let White Knight monologue for a bit" option and it worked so...

Eh, seems rather speculative, skill isn't something that can just be scaled like AP, and these alternatives are far simpler than manually blocking each bullet with a far smaller thing.

I mean you already saw a few examples of Rex using his surroundings to his advantage as well. I think it's impressive that someone with that level of analytical prediction wouldn't be able to predict Rex.

Uh... you probably should first do the proper argument for VK to be upscaling from Brainstorm to begin with, now that I'm looking back.

Uh? But like why can't het get hit by it, is it also game over if he gets hit by it once?

He basically bosses them around, and not really, he resists, although it matters long-term as the resistance in the context of the verse isn't an immunity, and with seven lifetimes... yeah.

Vilgax does not know how to hide, this was established later on in the episode, I kid you not.

Sure, but still, as it was mentioned above, the stuff threatening him still was rather sluggish and didn't appear to be invulnerable either, even if it's clear they'd overwhelm him if he stayed.

Eh, well I hope not even though being too OP for the list does have its allure. But don't see why this would be banned, it's just infinite fighting experience (which was allowed before with another character iirc), treat it like an arbitrarely large amount of experience since I assume the skill gained from fighting the same opponent for t increases to infinity would go near zero (Asymptotic Behavior).

Yeah, because of that I'm unsure if it'd be quantificable or not, although I lean on the latter.

That is true, Sora should be able to block with his keyblade here.

Noted

Yeah.

Noted

I also put some extra stuff with Princess Looma above.

Rex is also relative to Four Arms, who defeated Looma, Khoros' greatest warrior (she defeated every male of her species, granted males are weaker than females).

Being a great warrior also doesn't rely exclusively on skill, and from what you're implying it seems she's like that more out of having that much strength in relation to virtually anyone else of that species, which is a good statement and all, beyond that, while I can see some multitasking with the multiple arms, the acts done still don't seem particularly of note skill-wise, at least in comparison to Sora's.

 

[Greenshifter]

to make a really important skill feat (in that context) it would need to be show that they have a high skill level (a bit like how I showed in the other thread the general skill level of people in the Arifureta verse).

I'm just going for Vilgax has UI essentially for now. That's enough for me.

The are show to clearly be slow

What you mean is that they "wait" due to animation restrictions, not their actual combat speed. At least I think that's what you mean.

Don't remember that you brought examples in that thread, and while Six is really cool and is skilled I would like to hear the reason of why Paradox, Eon or even Rex are supposed to be above him skill wise (not stat or power wise). Because they aren't showing absolutely any hint that they are analyzing the opponent movement, that they are predicting (in combat) their next move or are showing anything that can be considered really skilled (except the tiny bit acrobatics of Paradox).

I meant this thread, that thread was quite a mess. Rex fought a no-morals Six and did quite good despite Rex holding back. Eon can cut off Paradox's arm and is consistently relative to him in every way, Ben is consistently relative to Eon throughout the years. Rex and Ben are also relative in skill, with Rex edging out. Ben's also complicated since some forms are slightly more skilled than others. Sadly a lot of Ben 10's best skill stuff comes from statements rather than flashy combat and what not, the show has other priorities. But to say they aren't skilled at all would be dishonest considering Ben could keep up with visually skilled bounty hunters since the beginning of the franchise.

I asked about Rook because when he barely defended against the attack of Eon he closed his eyes, which I don't think I actually need to point out how much of a anti feat that is to his skill.

Are you talking about the time beast (if not timestamp please) shooting Rook while he's in a vehicle? Not sure what else he should have done there, Ben 10K made the vehicle to capture the time beast, getting out would have exposed the interior which wouldn't be good. If anything this is an anti-feat for his piloting skills or smth. Also Rook holds back his skill to the level of Ben's more skilled opponents, he only goes full out against his former master.

 

[Greenshifter]

Uh... without feats this seems rather unquantificable, this isn't much different from claiming that someone in X verse is "strong" by beating a god, and so this can vary a lot by itself, to say the least.

Just go with most skilled irl assassin but uses a guitar as their killing weapon of choice. Here is an example of how the Six fight. (Rex should get more skilled after this)

Then hax, it's still not really skill in any case

Rex overcomes the hax via skill.

Sure, but that's not inherently out of skill, from the look of things he just had better stats all around.

He just literally didn't. I have a hard time finding the clips from before Rex started outskilling them, but the situation was literally reversed before this, so if you had only seen that clip you'd conclude that they had higher stats than Rex.

Eh, seems rather speculative, skill isn't something that can just be scaled like AP, and these alternatives are far simpler than manually blocking each bullet with a far smaller thing.

Rex fights a morals-off Six and is clearly relative in skill to him in that fight. They also train together and what not so... I'm aware that the alternatives are far simpler, hence why him going for the wall isn't an anti-feat since you can't conclude that he couldn't block the bullets from it.

Uh... you probably should first do the proper argument for VK to be upscaling from Brainstorm to begin with, now that I'm looking back.

He's smarter, intelligence being what allows Brainstorm to use analytical prediction in the first place. Good enough for you?

He basically bosses them around, and not really, he resists, although it matters long-term as the resistance in the context of the verse isn't an immunity, and with seven lifetimes... yeah.

Wouldn't he have time to restore his light or smth? But yeah sounds like a very good feat then.

Sure, but still, as it was mentioned above, the stuff threatening him still was rather sluggish and didn't appear to be invulnerable either, even if it's clear they'd overwhelm him if he stayed.

I mean he stayed for weeks so, man's gotta know when to quit at some point. They don't go intangible all the time, but sometimes they do, so practically speaking Vilgax would still need to be pretty much untouchable.

Yeah, because of that I'm unsure if it'd be quantificable or not, although I lean on the latter.

Just ask Azontr tbh, he gets to decide that.

Being a great warrior also doesn't rely exclusively on skill, and from what you're implying it seems she's like that more out of having that much strength in relation to virtually anyone else of that species, which is a good statement and all, beyond that, while I can see some multitasking with the multiple arms, the acts done still don't seem particularly of note skill-wise, at least in comparison to Sora's.

Yeah.

A lot of this is gonna come down to the Paradox stuff isn't it? This will probably be my last reply here for today, I might take a quick look here tomorrow but I'll be pretty busy till Friday. I'd appreciate if no-one tries to rush this debate/thread.

 

[Epiccheev]

I'm just going for Vilgax has UI essentially for now. That's enough for me.

DBS fans would not take kindly to this

 

[Greenshifter]

DBS fans would not take kindly to this

Too bad for them that I'm a mod in a DB server then . Also I just noticed that your "like-to-comment" ratio is extremely high, like dang.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I'm just going for Vilgax has UI essentially for now. That's enough for me.

What you mean is that they "wait" due to animation restrictions, not their actual combat speed. At least I think that's what you mean.

I meant this thread, that thread was quite a mess. Rex fought a no-morals Six and did quite good despite Rex holding back. Eon can cut off Paradox's arm and is consistently relative to him in every way, Ben is consistently relative to Eon throughout the years. Rex and Ben are also relative in skill, with Rex edging out. Ben's also complicated since some forms are slightly more skilled than others. Sadly a lot of Ben 10's best skill stuff comes from statements rather than flashy combat and what not, the show has other priorities. But to say they aren't skilled at all would be dishonest considering Ben could keep up with visually skilled bounty hunters since the beginning of the franchise.

Are you talking about the time beast (if not timestamp please) shooting Rook while he's in a vehicle? Not sure what else he should have done there, Ben 10K made the vehicle to capture the time beast, getting out would have exposed the interior which wouldn't be good. If anything this is an anti-feat for his piloting skills or smth. Also Rook holds back his skill to the level of Ben's more skilled opponents, he only goes full out against his former master.

No, definitely no.

No, it wasn't do to animation, as bob said they clearly have sluggish movement compared with the protagonist or even other enemies in different scenes.

Could you post the video to see? Because the people who are supposed to be above him don't show feats even remotely near Six level, at the very least from the fights you posted.

There was another moment when he closed his eyes while receiving an attack? Wow, didn't saw that. I was talking about the moment when Eon was temporarilly take down (which btw the way he fell is look like an anti feat but well) when Eon shot an energy attack and Rook defended with his blade while closing the eyes as if scared (which isn't only a big anti feat skill wise but also ended causing that Eon escaped).

 

[Epiccheev]

Also I just noticed that your "like-to-comment" ratio is extremely high, like dang.

That's what happens when 90% of your messages are shitpost