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I'm just having issues with the naming pf type 2 and 4 is all
I'll draw a diagram to express my understanding of the types.
I'll draw a diagram to express my understanding of the types.
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Revision of Acausality Page
- Thread starter Lancer45Man
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I am confused with the existence of Type 3 at all.
"There is no past or future for me, only an eternal now" is just a way of describing a being who doesn't perceive temporal progression, but sees all of it at once.
"There is no past or future for me, only an eternal now" is just a way of describing a being who doesn't perceive temporal progression, but sees all of it at once.
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Not necessarily, there can be beings who can exist at only one point in time but still progress through it (It's weird but it happens)
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Type 3 isn't a person who sees all of a timeline at once, it's a person who only exists at a single point in a timeline.
E.g. The timeline:
Type 3" |_________________x_________x_________x_______|
The type 3 person exists here ^, then here^, then here ^, but they never exist in all points of the timeline at once. A normal person would exist in all those points at once - that is to say, they have a past and a future.
E.g. The timeline:
Type 3" |_________________x_________x_________x_______|
The type 3 person exists here ^, then here^, then here ^, but they never exist in all points of the timeline at once. A normal person would exist in all those points at once - that is to say, they have a past and a future.
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This is how I understand how the types based on their names and descriptions.
This is why I think it makes more sense for causality "transcendence" to be a better form of acausality than "irregular" causality.
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Tbh I feel like a character can have two or more types of Acausality
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Probably
But transcending causality is still better acausality than just working by different causality.
Hell, the outer gods don't work by causality at all. Causality and change is an illusion caused by lesser minds being unable to properly perceive the lovecraft reality which is actually a complete, unchanging whole yada yada yada
But transcending causality is still better acausality than just working by different causality.
Hell, the outer gods don't work by causality at all. Causality and change is an illusion caused by lesser minds being unable to properly perceive the lovecraft reality which is actually a complete, unchanging whole yada yada yada
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The Outer Gods and just the Cthulhu Mythos in general work differently then most if not all other works of fiction.
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Daedric Princes are the same.
"they are mentioned to be immutable beings beyond Cause and Consequence who only seem linear because they chose to appear as so"
And numerous other beings are stated as transcending causality.
Also, would this be a different type of acausality, or would it fall under Irregular Causality:
Characters who have had their past/futures predetermined/set, so that attempts to change these pasts/futures fail.
The example I have in mind is BB, who programmed the timeline so that no matter what, she would reach the moon cell.
"they are mentioned to be immutable beings beyond Cause and Consequence who only seem linear because they chose to appear as so"
And numerous other beings are stated as transcending causality.
Also, would this be a different type of acausality, or would it fall under Irregular Causality:
Characters who have had their past/futures predetermined/set, so that attempts to change these pasts/futures fail.
The example I have in mind is BB, who programmed the timeline so that no matter what, she would reach the moon cell.
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@Monarch, if that entails another type of Acausality then I'm all ears.
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Okay I'm editing it @Ant
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What are people's thoughts on my diagram/thoughts on Irregular Causality V Causality Transcendence?
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Oh well guess I was wrong(though I did say most... kinda), and for the question it seems a bit different from Irregular Causality not much but there is some difference so id say make another type.
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They are already two types.
But their descriptions don't seem correct. It should be causality transcendence that has the "cannot be interacted with normally because of this, making it virtually impossible to affect them through most means". And irregular causality should have the "would have protection against Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation and some degrees of Probability Manipulation and Precognition" due to working by a different system of causality to what is normally manipulated.
But their descriptions don't seem correct. It should be causality transcendence that has the "cannot be interacted with normally because of this, making it virtually impossible to affect them through most means". And irregular causality should have the "would have protection against Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation and some degrees of Probability Manipulation and Precognition" due to working by a different system of causality to what is normally manipulated.
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Oh, I wasn't saying to use it as the page image. I was just using it to demonstrate my understanding of the types based on their descriptions. It's lacking everything except types 2 and 4
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- #221
Okay I've made the changes in the original post.
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Maybe change the description from
"Type 2: Irregular Acausality: Characters with this type of Acausality transcend the normal boundaries of cause and effect, existing outside of the causality of a system. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others"
to
Type 2: Irregular Acausality: Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different, irregular, system of cause and effect to the normal system causality. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others.
Just removing the "transcend/outside" bit will make it easier to avoid mixing up with causal transcendence.
"Type 2: Irregular Acausality: Characters with this type of Acausality transcend the normal boundaries of cause and effect, existing outside of the causality of a system. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others"
to
Type 2: Irregular Acausality: Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different, irregular, system of cause and effect to the normal system causality. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others.
Just removing the "transcend/outside" bit will make it easier to avoid mixing up with causal transcendence.
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Done ƒæǃæî
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Oh, and here is another possible type.
Type X: Deterministic Causality: A user with this type of acausality has a set fate/timeline, making it impossible to alter their past, future, or both. Attempts to alter them through methods such as causality manipulation, fate manipulation, or probability manipulation will fail unless the attacker's ability to manipulate these things is greater than the force that has set the user's fate.
Users: BB (Fate/Extra CCC)
Thing is, I'm not sure if this actually qualifies as acausality seeing as they are still bound to causality, it's just one that's already been set... but we have other types that aren't outright acausal.
Type X: Deterministic Causality: A user with this type of acausality has a set fate/timeline, making it impossible to alter their past, future, or both. Attempts to alter them through methods such as causality manipulation, fate manipulation, or probability manipulation will fail unless the attacker's ability to manipulate these things is greater than the force that has set the user's fate.
Users: BB (Fate/Extra CCC)
Thing is, I'm not sure if this actually qualifies as acausality seeing as they are still bound to causality, it's just one that's already been set... but we have other types that aren't outright acausal.
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I mean, BB did it to herself sure, but once it was done, it was done. I don't think she had to use her powers to maintain it.
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I feel like Temporal Permanence should be a lower number and Causality Transcendence should be Type 5. I just feel like it would be more organized to have the types of Acausality in increasing orders of effectiveness.
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Tbh these types are not assigned by their magnitude of power but rather on the Chronological order of inputs/suggestions given in the thread. If anyone wants, I can arrange them in order of increasing Magnitude. I'm it'll be:
Type 1: Time Paradox Immunity
Type 2: Temporal Permanance
Type 3: Temporal Singularity
Type 4: Irregular Acausality
Type 5: Causality Transcendence
Type 1: Time Paradox Immunity
Type 2: Temporal Permanance
Type 3: Temporal Singularity
Type 4: Irregular Acausality
Type 5: Causality Transcendence
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I honestly don't mind the order as long as they are explained well
@Monarch
It's more that BB's thing is something that she did herself, so people with similar or superior control over the timeline can nullify that.
Meanwhile you just can't paradox a character with TPI.
@Monarch
It's more that BB's thing is something that she did herself, so people with similar or superior control over the timeline can nullify that.
Meanwhile you just can't paradox a character with TPI.
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so Type 1 : run-off-the-mill acausality.
Type 2 : can be gained by higher-dimensionality
Type 3 : ???
Type 4 : transcend causality of totality of existence and/or explicitly stated to be Type 4
Type 5 : all states of 'A character' in all points in time are not causally connected so he/she essentially has endless amount of backups.
what if a character can forcefully connect causally disconnected events/universes? does this kind of Causality Manipulation grant some kind of Acausality too? tho, since this sounds to like basic Causality Manipulation I think not.
Type 2 : can be gained by higher-dimensionality
Type 3 : ???
Type 4 : transcend causality of totality of existence and/or explicitly stated to be Type 4
Type 5 : all states of 'A character' in all points in time are not causally connected so he/she essentially has endless amount of backups.
what if a character can forcefully connect causally disconnected events/universes? does this kind of Causality Manipulation grant some kind of Acausality too? tho, since this sounds to like basic Causality Manipulation I think not.
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Here's my rewrite updated with new description and a different order. Examples for the new Type 4 would be appreciated.
- Type 1: Time Paradox Immunity: Characters with this type of Acausality are rendered immune to changes in the past and standard temporal paradoxes, but remain just as vulnerable in the present and can be affected by normal Causality Manipulation and similar abilities.
- Examples: The Doctor (Doctor Who), Goku Black with Time Ring (Dragon Ball), Sol Badguy (Guilty Gear)
- Type 2: Temporal Singularity: Characters with this type of Acausality do not exist in either the past or the future, only the present. This means they cannot be affected by changes to the past, while also making them resistant to Precognition that works by viewing the future, as they do not exist within it, and Fate Manipulation, for the same reason. In essence, they are able to choose their own fates, but they remain just as vulnerable at the point in time in which they do exist.
- Type 3: Temporal Permanence: Characters with this type of Acausality are incredibly difficult to kill, as other versions of themselves - from other points in time and/or from other universes - can survive the destruction of the "original" and act in their place. This also grants them immunity to changes in the past.
- Examples: Lavos (Chrono), Solaris (Sonic the Hedgehog)
- Type 4: Irregular Causality: Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others.
- Examples: Oryx (Destiny), Lord Drakko (Power Rangers)
- Type 5: Causality Transcendence: Characters with this type of Acausality transcend the normal boundaries of cause and effect, existing outside of the causality of a system. Even interacting with them normally may prove virtually impossible.
- Examples: Outer Gods (Cthulhu Mythos), Daedric Princes (The Elder Scrolls)
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What Prom wrote seems pretty good. If I can add something else, the characters The Fateless One and Raziel could also be used as examples of Type 2 Acausality.
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Seems fine, Eternals from The Spirit of Eternity Sword would be examples of type 3 cause they don't exist within the time axis within which they were born.
Would characters like God (Tokyo Babel) and M (Shikkoku no Sharnoth) who have statements of transcending causality/being reversals of causality be examples of type 4 or 5?
Would characters like God (Tokyo Babel) and M (Shikkoku no Sharnoth) who have statements of transcending causality/being reversals of causality be examples of type 4 or 5?
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Why Raziel?
Probably more Type 5 (note that this doesn't automatically grant them the highest degree of it). I dunno who'd qualify for Type 4.
Probably more Type 5 (note that this doesn't automatically grant them the highest degree of it). I dunno who'd qualify for Type 4.
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@Prom would The Speed Force be an example of type 4?
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I can't really judge something with no Acausality description
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He is free from the Wheel of Fate, the only one in the verse with free will ("do" whatever he wants). The timeline in the verse is immutable, only thing capable to change history is him or the Soul Reaver due to being a living paradox.Promestein said:
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