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Reviewing Acausality Type 5 in profile pages

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Destiny's Oryx? Pretty sure he still fits the standards, though I guess it wouldn't hurt to double-check.
 
Dereck03 said:
...
Click to expand...
No direct link between being acausal and being uninteractable, reads like Nonexistent Physiology makes them untouchable and they are also acausal.

Theglassman12 said:
@Everything12 would Oryx count for the new standards for type 5 given his ascendant status renders him untouchable which include causality being unbounded as a result?
Click to expand...
Current scans (in the thread) that the profile links to isn't enough for Acausality Type 5, so if he does apply we would need the evidence.
 
Everything12 said:
No direct link between being acausal and being uninteractable, reads like Nonexistent Physiology makes them untouchable and they are also acausal.
Click to expand...
It's Nonexistent Physiology which lacks causality. Why are we treating it as just NEP when it is both NEP and Acausality in one, which both help in not being interactable?
His source is type 5 not type 4 tho.
 
Orioreeem said:
It's Nonexistent Physiology which lacks causality.
Click to expand...
Don't disagree with any of this, but...

Orioreeem said:
Why are we treating it as just NEP when it is both NEP and Acausality in one, which both help in not being interactable?

His source is type 5 not type 4 tho.
Click to expand...
Doesn't having the evidence required to prove that he is uninteractable because he is acausal and not just because he's Nonexistent.

He has evidence that proves he is uninteractable because he's Nonexistent, he has evidence that proves his Nonexistence is acausal, but he doesn't have proof that his Acausality specifically makes him uninteractable.

The evidence that proves he is uninteractable makes it clear that it is because he is Nonexistent and makes not hint towards it being because of being acausal. With their being no other evidence presented that equates acausal to uninteractable.

We can't link his Nonexistence makes him untouchable and his Nonexistence is acausal, to his Nonexistence making him untouchable because of being acasual without any actual evidence that supports acausal = uninteractable.
 
rather than being acausal type 5. Lack of causality is probably what he has or that causality in his source is irrelevant. Shouldn't that be a Type 5 aspect of NEP? it basically achieves the same thing but different ability wise imo
 
There is a statement from Puella Magi Madoka Magica Official Guidebook confirmed Madoka transcend causality
303849489_1408130596331537_6618728167596586306_n.jpg

13 全ての魔法少女が救われる方法は?
悩だまどかは、ついに自らの祈りを口にして、妖精と契約を果たす。
「過去と未来のすべての魔女を滅 ぼす存在になりたい」
時空を越えた遠大な祈りによって、最強最悪の魔女となる運命を決定づけられるまどか。
だが遠い時間の果てで、宇宙を破壊せんとする魔女:まどかの前に、究極魔法少女:まどかが立ちはだかる。
あらゆる時間軸、あらゆる平行宇宙において、魔法少女の末路である魔女たちを浄化していくまどか。
その結末を報された全宇宙の魔法少女たちは、絶望から立ち直り、新たな希望を胸に各々の戦いへと身を投じていく。
時間と空間と因果を超越してしまった存在となったまどかは、もう人間としての生活を営できない。 あらゆる時間軸に偏在する「魔法少女たちの希望」という概念に成り果てでしまう。
人間としての自意識が拡散してしまう寸前に、ほむらと別れを交わすまどか。
まどかは全ての平行世界を見渡すことで、かつてほむらが繰り返してきた複数の時間、幾度となく繰り返された二人の友情と想いを理解する。
「ありがとうーーいつだって、ほむらは私の 友達だったーー」
涙に暮れるほむら。だがまどかの決意は の未来をも救済するものだった。友の想いを胸に、自らの時間軸で運命と向き合う決意を固めるほむら。
最後にまどかは、自らの過去へと跳躍し、かつての平和だった優しい日々を覗き見して追体験しながら、その愛しさを噛み締める。

13 How can all magical girls be saved?
Madoka, troubled, finally says her prayer and makes a contract with the fairy.
"I want to be the one to destroy all witches, past and future."
Through her far-reaching prayer that transcends time and space, Madoka is destined to become the strongest and worst witch in the world.
But at the end of time, the Ultimate Magical Girl: Madoka stands in the way of the Witch: Madoka, who wants to destroy the universe.
In every timeline and parallel universe, Madoka purifies the witches who are the end of magical girls.
Magical girls throughout the universe are informed of the outcome, and they recover from their despair and throw themselves into their own battles with renewed hope in their hearts.
Having transcended time, space and causality, Madoka can no longer live her human life. She has become the "hope of magical girls," a concept that is ubiquitous in every timeline.
Just before her self-consciousness as a human being diffuses, Madoka says goodbye to Homura.
By looking over all the parallel worlds, Madoka understands the multiple times Homura has repeated herself in the past, and the friendship and feelings between the two of them that have been repeated over and over again.
"Thank you, Homura...for have always been my friend."
Homura is in tears. However, Madoka's determination to save the future of the world is also salvageable. With the feelings of her friend in her heart, Homura strengthens her resolve to face her destiny in her own time line.
Finally, Madoka leaps into her own past, peeking into the once peaceful and tender days, reliving them and biting back her love for them.
Plus she has some statement like became an existence which is no longer a part of the universe, with nobody being able to neither interact with nor remember her anymore as she's now completely outside time, cause and effect, without any kind of connection to the world. Does she qualify for the new Acausality Type 5 now, Everything12?
 
Everything12 said:
Don't disagree with any of this, but...


Doesn't having the evidence required to prove that he is uninteractable because he is acausal and not just because he's Nonexistent.

He has evidence that proves he is uninteractable because he's Nonexistent, he has evidence that proves his Nonexistence is acausal, but he doesn't have proof that his Acausality specifically makes him uninteractable.

The evidence that proves he is uninteractable makes it clear that it is because he is Nonexistent and makes not hint towards it being because of being acausal. With their being no other evidence presented that equates acausal to uninteractable.

We can't link his Nonexistence makes him untouchable and his Nonexistence is acausal, to his Nonexistence making him untouchable because of being acasual without any actual evidence that supports acausal = uninteractable.
Click to expand...
In fact his nothingness is state that beyond order(in this context then it beyond causality)

He both unreachable/uninteractable because he is nothing and because he is unbound by order

Talking about lack of causality. In this verse lack of causality make someone is unable to reach because yeah he his dont have causality. Like maytilen in the scan, no matter you push the blade, that will not reach his head, because the result in him head is being destroyed, make him unable to reach by attack that follow causality system
　刃は届いていない。
　どれだけ押し込もうと、刃は頭に到達せぬ。
　奴の頭に突き刺さるという結果が、崩されたかのように。
The blade has not arrived.
No matter how hard I push, the blade does not reach the head.
The result of stabbing him in the head, has been destroyed.

Maytilen even not a misfit like graham that unbound the order it self. So graham is uninteractable not just because his nothingness but because he unbound the order
 
Last edited:
Omazio2019 said:
There is a statement from Puella Magi Madoka Magica Official Guidebook confirmed Madoka transcend causality
303849489_1408130596331537_6618728167596586306_n.jpg

13 全ての魔法少女が救われる方法は?
悩だまどかは、ついに自らの祈りを口にして、妖精と契約を果たす。
「過去と未来のすべての魔女を滅 ぼす存在になりたい」
時空を越えた遠大な祈りによって、最強最悪の魔女となる運命を決定づけられるまどか。
だが遠い時間の果てで、宇宙を破壊せんとする魔女:まどかの前に、究極魔法少女:まどかが立ちはだかる。
あらゆる時間軸、あらゆる平行宇宙において、魔法少女の末路である魔女たちを浄化していくまどか。
その結末を報された全宇宙の魔法少女たちは、絶望から立ち直り、新たな希望を胸に各々の戦いへと身を投じていく。
時間と空間と因果を超越してしまった存在となったまどかは、もう人間としての生活を営できない。 あらゆる時間軸に偏在する「魔法少女たちの希望」という概念に成り果てでしまう。
人間としての自意識が拡散してしまう寸前に、ほむらと別れを交わすまどか。
まどかは全ての平行世界を見渡すことで、かつてほむらが繰り返してきた複数の時間、幾度となく繰り返された二人の友情と想いを理解する。
「ありがとうーーいつだって、ほむらは私の 友達だったーー」
涙に暮れるほむら。だがまどかの決意は の未来をも救済するものだった。友の想いを胸に、自らの時間軸で運命と向き合う決意を固めるほむら。
最後にまどかは、自らの過去へと跳躍し、かつての平和だった優しい日々を覗き見して追体験しながら、その愛しさを噛み締める。

13 How can all magical girls be saved?
Madoka, troubled, finally says her prayer and makes a contract with the fairy.
"I want to be the one to destroy all witches, past and future."
Through her far-reaching prayer that transcends time and space, Madoka is destined to become the strongest and worst witch in the world.
But at the end of time, the Ultimate Magical Girl: Madoka stands in the way of the Witch: Madoka, who wants to destroy the universe.
In every timeline and parallel universe, Madoka purifies the witches who are the end of magical girls.
Magical girls throughout the universe are informed of the outcome, and they recover from their despair and throw themselves into their own battles with renewed hope in their hearts.
Having transcended time, space and causality, Madoka can no longer live her human life. She has become the "hope of magical girls," a concept that is ubiquitous in every timeline.
Just before her self-consciousness as a human being diffuses, Madoka says goodbye to Homura.
By looking over all the parallel worlds, Madoka understands the multiple times Homura has repeated herself in the past, and the friendship and feelings between the two of them that have been repeated over and over again.
"Thank you, Homura...for have always been my friend."
Homura is in tears. However, Madoka's determination to save the future of the world is also salvageable. With the feelings of her friend in her heart, Homura strengthens her resolve to face her destiny in her own time line.
Finally, Madoka leaps into her own past, peeking into the once peaceful and tender days, reliving them and biting back her love for them.
Plus she has some statement like became an existence which is no longer a part of the universe, with nobody being able to neither interact with nor remember her anymore as she's now completely outside time, cause and effect, without any kind of connection to the world. Does she qualify for the new Acausality Type 5 now, Everything12?
Click to expand...
Still doesn't.
Like with the case for graham above, her being unable to be interacted with isn't because of her Acausality.
 
Regidian said:
If a "character" have a feat of not being able to be interacted with everything in the verse to the point that you can't even think or describ it for even acausal type 4 character. That it's outside of the world (and every boundary/duality/concept) and transcend the concept of causality (causality magic can't affect it), it is enough?
Click to expand...
And this?
Bcz the exemple of the feat you tell isn't even possible for it as trying to describe it just become "something" that just an extension of him that he will encompass.
 
Regidian said:
And this?
Bcz the exemple of the feat you tell isn't even possible for it as trying to describe it just become "something" that just an extension of him that he will encompass.
Click to expand...
I also am curious about the 「 」 qualifying for type 5 acausality , since apparently normal mages like souren araya can touch it /interact with it after opening a path to it although they get erased if they touch it?
 
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Dereck03 said:
There is also another proof where a chief god uses the order of causality to interact with Anos source but it was useless
Click to expand...
Everything12 said:
being acausal and being uninteractable
Click to expand...
Are we ignoring the fact that Anos has no resistance to Causality Manip? He himself is a misfit (Type 4 Acausal) who exists outside the framework of the world, order and reason? The causality did not affect him in the least and his source is Type 5 by being unbound of order and it is clearly mentioned that the attack that destroys the cause and effect would barely leave a claw mark on his body (because the attack was with a claw) but it could not even affect the resistance of his source.

And I certainly don't know what the point of your next argument is that you say that the true nature of graham cannot be interacted because it is only NEP2 and not Acausal. The point is that apart from the fact that his Nothingness could no longer be interacted with in any other way by the time he became his true nature he lacks reason and order (meaning that he loses everything related to order.... Causality, Destruction, Creation, Demise, etc), practically you are saying that someone lacks something but is not immune to it even though he lacks it. And clearly anos says that venuzdonoa destroyed reason and order, that nothingness that cannot be interacted with becomes even more impossible to interact with due to the lack of all order and reason and I think you know that very well.
「滅ぼされたものは無に帰すのが、この世の秩序だ。理滅剣の前では、あらゆる理が意味をなさず、万物万象が滅びる。その効果が働くのは対象が滅びるまでといったところかな？」

The world's order is that what is destroyed returns to nothing. In the face of the sword of reason and destruction, all reason is meaningless, and all things perish. Its effect will only work until the object is destroyed.

You are deliberately ignoring that lack of order means no destruction, no creation, no causality, no demise, no disorder. You cannot destroy, you cannot create, you cannot cause, you cannot demystify, you cannot disorder because there is no longer any order and reason has been destroyed and cannot be restored unless Venuzdonoa wishes it or retracted.
　いかな魔法を使おうと、秩序というのはやがて本来の形に戻るものだ。



　刃を納めれば、理が元に戻り、そこに残された無がグラハムという形を取り、再び動き出す。
　No matter what magic is used, order will eventually return to its original form.



　When the blade is retracted, reason returns to its original form, and the nothingness left behind takes the form of graham and begins to move again.
 
Last edited:
Dereck03 said:
...
Click to expand...
Reads like Acausality Type 4 (which grants a form of Resistance to Causality Manipulation), Nonexistent Physiology Aspect Type 5 for Graham, and maybe some other Resistances if the Acausality Type 4 doesn't cover all the outside Order and Reason stuff.

It is however not suitable evidence for Acausality Type 5.
 
Ultra_instinct_issei said:
I also am curious about the 「 」 qualifying for type 5 acausality , since apparently normal mages like souren araya can touch it /interact with it after opening a path to it although they get erased if they touch it?
Click to expand...
They don't touch it but can open a path to approach the root (the localisation so not really []) if they try to approach to much they get erased yeah.
 
Everything12 said:
Reads like Acausality Type 4 (which grants a form of Resistance to Causality Manipulation), Nonexistent Physiology Aspect Type 5 for Graham, and maybe some other Resistances if the Acausality Type 4 doesn't cover all the outside Order and Reason stuff.

It is however not suitable evidence for Acausality Type 5.
Click to expand...
How it is acc type 4 when there is a statement that he is impossible to be interacted with + he is beyond the causality.
 
Everything12 said:
Reads like Acausality Type 4 (which grants a form of Resistance to Causality Manipulation), Nonexistent Physiology Aspect Type 5 for Graham, and maybe some other Resistances if the Acausality Type 4 doesn't cover all the outside Order and Reason stuff.

It is however not suitable evidence for Acausality Type 5.
Click to expand...
Graham's nothingness isn't saying anything about resistance. He clearly mentioned his true form is without reason(logic and Casuality). Order already keeps the Casualty as subset. The scans are already in his profile. Type 4 is for their normal bodies type 5 is for true form and root. You can easily break Resistance in MG if you have enough AP. Don't see why would that be an resistance when it was never shown or stated.
 
Homestuck Type 5 Acasuality doesn't say ANYTHING about it being on a different system of causality, which makes me doubt just straight up Type 4, I wonder if Limited Type 5 could be a thing? Idk
 
Huh, so if I understand you Graham gets aspect 5 by lacking order (Duality, Transduality, Causality, and everything related to the whole order in Maou Gakuin? Creation, Destruction, Demise, Disorder and even order of absurdity which is transcendent to the other orders and is the opposition to all order which would be neither 1 and 0 and at the same time 1 and 0.) including reason which is way above order?

And what about Anos.... Anos' source is hypothesised to be "chaos" itself, which is the lack of and opposite of all "order", which includes the Order of Causality that governs the world's system of causality. Order in general follows a system of dualities. There is no causality for Anos either, so what is it for you?
 
Tony_di_bugalu said:
So... Why don't we nuke type 5?
Click to expand...
Considering this is how the standards were supposed to really be when ability was otiginaly made, I'd imagine there to be someone who qualifies(probably a verse that's written to be powerful and high tier) otherwise it would''ve never been an actual ability. If there really is no one then we either delete it or it goes back to old standards.
 
I cannot think of a singular verse that qualifies for type 5 bar verses that reach 1-A, it is just CM, TES, MT, SCP etc that would get the power, no one else.
We have literally just gone full circle, back to when aca type 5 was only for 1-A and up characters and everyone else got type 4.
Sasuga vsbw-sama
 
Do those verses really have the statement needed? If it's just because of transcending their own verse because they are 1-A and above it doesn't qualify
deonment said:
I cannot think of a singular verse that qualifies for type 5 bar verses that reach 1-A, it is just CM, TES, MT, SCP etc that would get the power, no one else.
We have literally just gone full circle, back to when aca type 5 was only for 1-A and up characters and everyone else got type 4.
Sasuga vsbw-sama
Click to expand...
 
Looking at the new standards, is Type 5 just suddenly this rare ability that like, anyone can hardly obtain? Because that is most definitely what it feels like.
 
Current Type 5 as whole is

You have tons of Statments, Zero Anti feats, No one has been capable of interact with you ever, but you don't qualify for type 5 cos no proof of any random not being able to interact with you.
 
This is a Wiki devoted to reliably indexing fictional characters. Not our problem if the simple logic of Acausality meaning that a person can't be affected by any effect is not presented by certain series.
 
Everything12 said:
This is a Wiki devoted to reliably indexing fictional characters. Not our problem if the simple logic of Acausality meaning that a person can't be affected by any effect is not presented by certain series.
Click to expand...
Dereck03 said:
Huh, so if I understand you Graham gets aspect 5 by lacking order (Duality, Transduality, Causality, and everything related to the whole order in Maou Gakuin? Creation, Destruction, Demise, Disorder and even order of absurdity which is transcendent to the other orders and is the opposition to all order which would be neither 1 and 0 and at the same time 1 and 0.) including reason which is way above order?

And what about Anos.... Anos' source is hypothesised to be "chaos" itself, which is the lack of and opposite of all "order", which includes the Order of Causality that governs the world's system of causality. Order in general follows a system of dualities. There is no causality for Anos either, so what is it for you?
Click to expand...
Last question and I'll not get involved in this.
 
deonment said:
I cannot think of a singular verse that qualifies for type 5 bar verses that reach 1-A, it is just CM, TES, MT, SCP etc that would get the power, no one else.
We have literally just gone full circle, back to when aca type 5 was only for 1-A and up characters and everyone else got type 4.
Sasuga vsbw-sama
Click to expand...
Mind you those where mentioned at the start and some don't even have justifications
 
Dereck03 said:
Huh, so if I understand you Graham gets aspect 5 by lacking order (Duality, Transduality, Causality, and everything related to the whole order in Maou Gakuin? Creation, Destruction, Demise, Disorder and even order of absurdity which is transcendent to the other orders and is the opposition to all order which would be neither 1 and 0 and at the same time 1 and 0.) including reason which is way above order?
Click to expand...
Something to that affect, this isn't the thread to discuss this.

Dereck03 said:
And what about Anos.... Anos' source is hypothesised to be "chaos" itself, which is the lack of and opposite of all "order", which includes the Order of Causality that governs the world's system of causality. Order in general follows a system of dualities. There is no causality for Anos either, so what is it for you?
Click to expand...
Transduality. No clue what Type, haven't checked the results of the thread yet.

Tony_di_bugalu said:
Mind you those where mentioned at the start and some don't even have justifications
Click to expand...
Well that's a completely different issue that shouldn't have been a thing.
 
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