• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Removing hax resistances from Shadow, Espio, and Silver

Status
Not open for further replies.
JJSliderman said:
I know there’s no visual indicator, but they could have easily chosen a way to show the characters were struggling against the hax to prove they can overcome it. They already did with other instances like in Shadow the Hedgehog, they could have indicated it with grunts or “get out of my head!” or something like that, instead of the characters having no reaction to this creature trying to cloud their thoughts.
Click to expand...
Non sequitur, they don't need to show struggle at all, already showing they unaffacted shows resistance, this is literally only for powerscalers. They did in Shadow because he didn't initially resist it, in both Unleashed and chronicles when characters resist it they don't show any struggle, struggle is for when you can't resist, or are failing to do so
JJSliderman said:
The argument of “the characters believed it could affect both of them” makes no sense because the characters didn’t know whether Ifrit could hax multiple characters or not. All they knew is that it could use that hax. All we have to go off of are Ifrit’s showings, which are affecting only one character at a time.
Click to expand...
No reason to assume they are wrong while you are correct, you need proof that puts you above the characters, something you lack, stop just assuming things as a debunk
JJSliderman said:
You also just admitted that plot convenience is the only reason why player 1 is resistant, which opens up the possibility of plot convenience that the characters who are never under threat of hax just were not targeted because of the existence of Metal V3 as an existing rival character not requiring the hax to be present.
Click to expand...
False analogy, it's convinent in one case because the characters are separated from the Nega story, so using the opposite character is rule of cool, it's bad game design to have the same final boss in two different stories, however you can't just say it applies to the other story, this is just an assumption, resisting is far more likely, again why wouldn't Nega just make it hax them? Having Metal 3.0 there and equating that to why they don't get haxed is simply a non sequitur, two unrelated points because they could have still fought against the other character if Sega truly wanted it
 
No because there are examples of their range with their hax going much further, Ifrit doesn’t have that.

I’m not claiming to know more than the characters because the characters knew the same amount that I do, they didn’t know Ifrit could hax multiple targets because nothing told them that.

Them being unaffected could easily just be because they weren’t haxxed, I’m not sure why them being targets is the go-to possibility when that’s never made clear in the cutscenes, unlike in the cases where the hax is more obvious.

Also if Nega was controlling it somehow then that just further increases the possibility that the hax can target, which removes the passive argument.
 
Just because it's shown that he haxed one person at the time it doesn't mean that he can ONLY hax one person per turn, false analogy, in exchange of trying to prove the headcanon.
 
This range issue only exists if we assume that the premise of 'they dont resist the hax" is correct, if we don't assume it then its range is higher, and it's initial argument is already debunked
 
Wow I can't believe this is actually being argued. Any other verse would've gone with "yeah it's selective cause in each story one person can resist it but then get mind controlled easily in another"

2 characters walk into a bar and 1 suddenly becomes possessed by a person there. Does this mean the other person has a resistance and that the hax is passive? This is literally what feels like is being argued right now.

I agree with the OP personally. There's a ton of roundabout methods going on here. Maybe because it's self-conflicting we just get rid of the feat entirely just for that reason alone.
 
The characters should start with the assumption they don’t have the resistance, so if Ifrit fails to hax more than one target that should account more for Ifrit’s range with the hax than the character’s resisting
 
Foxthefox1000 said:
Wow I can't believe this is actually being argued. Any other verse would've gone with "yeah it's selective cause in each story one person can resist it but then get mind controlled easily in another"

2 characters walk into a bar and 1 suddenly becomes possessed by a person there. Does this mean the other person has a resistance and that the hax is passive? This is literally what feels like is being argued right now.

I agree with the OP personally. There's a ton of roundabout methods going on here. Maybe because it's self-conflicting we just get rid of the feat entirely just for that reason alone.
Click to expand...
The characters that can get mind controlled in one route nor the other don't have the resistance, only the ones who don't get in neither route are the ones who have it, therefore your whole post is invalid because we don't do that
 
Like, even if it's only one, Shadow, Silver and Espio don't get haxed while fighting 3.0, as other stories show mindhax is a first move for Ifrit, therefore they keep resistance for not being mindhaxed
 
That’s cool, except there’s still nothing concretely proving Ifrit’s hax potency is planetary, or that the hax was used on Shadow and company at all.
 
JJSliderman said:
That’s cool, except there’s still nothing concretely proving Ifrit’s hax potency is planetary, or that the hax was used on Shadow and company at all.
Click to expand...
You’ve literally not debunked any of the evidence it’s passive dude, even your range argument doesn’t matter (even though you didn’t debunk the evidence on that case ether) because even if it would only effect one person, it still would’ve been used o Shadow on crew
 
And you all question why we get so annoyed of repeated revisions that devolve into nothing but mental gymnastics and semantics...

The story is something you cannot change, and we know what the story is attempting to convey. If you disagree with it, cool, show proof. You don't have the proof? Then you have no grounds to try and force your own narrative when the narrative is already there and there have been specific examples shown from the game itself. Seriously, what the hell is this thread by this point?
 
The hax potency being planetary it's because it affects Sonic, who resists planetary mindhax, and the other the burden is unironically on you, like seriously, we see the Ifrit hax two times right at the start, you need to prove why he suddenly wouldn't, and debunk passive, and the argument of "we have no visual" is already debunked btw
 
Okay, so it affects Sonic, who resists the mindhax.
Why can Tails resist it in some routes when Sonic can’t, then? Why is Sonic, someone noted by Chip as incredibly strong of heart in the game where Sonic resists the mindhax, not able to resist the hax in the same scenario that Tails is? And then why is that inconsistent with the hax also working on Tails in another, almost identical scenario?

The answer only makes sense if the hax targets, since it would leave one character affected while the other isn’t, and that could change between routes without having to rely on assumptions of the level of resistance the characters have or assuming the character abilities change between stories.
 
JJSliderman said:
Why can Tails resist it in some routes when Sonic can’t, then? Why is Sonic, someone noted by Chip as incredibly strong of heart in the game where Sonic resists the mindhax, not able to resist the hax in the same scenario that Tails is? And then why is that inconsistent with the hax also working on Tails in another, almost identical scenario?
Click to expand...
Dude, in the nicest way possible, I don’t think you know how Powerscaling works
 
Sonic can’t resist this mindhax despite having statements that he’s too strong to lose himself in Unleashed. Tails has no such statements and is physically weaker than Sonic, by all logic Tails should not resist it if Sonic doesn’t resist it and both are targeted. The fact that Tails is unaffected while Sonic is affected reasonably should mean that the attack didn’t target the non-affected character to begin with
 
But we don't give resistance to Tails? Fine, let's concede to the fact that the Ifrit can only hax one person, what does it change.........? Nothing, at all

Like legit, the characters who resist it fight it by themselfs, it doesn't change the fact that it would still target them, and yet it doesn't. Unironically we conceding range to you changes nothing for us

Your argument against passive relies on range, if range is only one then you have no points against it
Ifrit is show to use mindhax multiple times, therefore assuming he wouldn't in this case is requires more evidence
We not seeing Shadow be mindhaxed is not a point when it lacks visual clues
Ifrit's potency stays the same

So what then? You lose all your points against resistance
 
JJSliderman said:
Sonic can’t resist this mindhax despite having statements that he’s too strong to lose himself in Unleashed. Tails has no such statements and is physically weaker than Sonic, by all logic Tails should not resist it if Sonic doesn’t resist it and both are targeted. The fact that Tails is unaffected while Sonic is affected reasonably should mean that the attack didn’t target the non-affected character to begin with
Click to expand...
Dude

Tails didn’t even get on screen effected by Dark Gaia ether

Tails doesn’t even have the resistance listed

what are you talking about
 
My point is just that if the potency is scaled above Sonic’s potency, there’s no reason that Tails should be unaffected in the same scene if the hax affects multiple characters and both are being targeted. But he is. So clearly, the hax doesn’t actually affect multiple characters.
 
JJSliderman said:
My point is just that if the potency is scaled above Sonic’s potency, there’s no reason that Tails should be unaffected in the same scene if the hax affects multiple characters and both are being targeted. But he is. So clearly, the hax doesn’t actually affect multiple characters.
Click to expand...
Even if I think your wrong, you also gotta answer, what the hell does that change even if your right
 
JJSliderman said:
My point is just that if the potency is scaled above Sonic’s potency, there’s no reason that Tails should be unaffected in the same scene if the hax affects multiple characters and both are being targeted. But he is. So clearly, the hax doesn’t actually affect multiple characters.
Click to expand...
Ok, ifrit can only target one, alright, how does this affect he not affecting people who fight on top of him while being alone?
 
If the hax targets, and only works on one character, then it’s entirely possible that Ifrit just
Doesn’t use the hax on Shadow and company.
 
It being passive has no ground unless it’s actually proven that Ifrit has no capability of targeting whatsoever.
 
The only evidence it was passive was that it happened as soon as Ifrit woke up (which isn’t enough on its own), and that Ifrit has no capacity for thinking (which wasn’t proven)
 
The fact a target is actively chosen by Ifrit before the fight starts I think says enough that it has at least some capacity of choosing who it uses hax on.
 
JJSliderman said:
If the hax targets, and only works on one character, then it’s entirely possible that Ifrit just
Doesn’t use the hax on Shadow and company.
Click to expand...
And this right here requires some evidence

We showed proof that the hax acts in a passive way, your counter is that the other character would be affected, something that doesn't matter if it's only one that can be affected, "what if" is irrelevant
Even if we assume it's targetting we know that the Ifrit uses it's hax in literally half of the game, you need evidence on why he just wouldn't use it, your word is not enough when we have physical evidence of how it acts
We know that we don't need visual clues for the hax, therefore you can't expect that

You are unironically cornered, there is no more arguments against Shadow and co resisting it that doesn't devolve into (he didn't use it just because), concede
 
It’s not really random though, every time you play that story Ifrit will hax one character and only that character for that story. The fact that happens is more likely showing it’s not random, and Ifrit is actively picking that target.
 
DragonLord said:
Prove it’s targeting something, in fact there being two scenarios would actually point to it being random
Click to expand...
True, you complained about us saying resistances shifted between stories, now prove why Ifrit's decisions are different between stories that isn't because of plot convinience
 
Nah, that was the right one, I was commending Dragon's points there, pretty confident now because there's literally no counters that don't involve the Ifrit simply not using it's hax because "reasons"
 
Admittedly, I think Ifrit’s stuff should only be single target, but I do think it has planetary potency and it being passive makes sense. With that in mind, having at least one of the three having the resistance I think is possible.
 
Granted it still feels kinda weird how Espio and Silver can resist it while Sonic can’t, but I guess I just have to accept that.
 
ahhh…
yeah I can’t think of anything other than the hax not being the most clear in the Shadow and Silver scenarios, but since it’s passive ig it doesn’t matter too much. So, I’m good I think.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Omegabronic
"We found our flame, we are undefeatable warriors" Sonic the hedgehog Skill Thread CRT
2
Replies
58
Views
6K
Antvasima
Antvasima
James_Plays_4_Games
  • Locked
Espio Intelligence Upgrade
Replies
11
Views
854
Starter_Pack
Starter_Pack
Starsprite53
Out of Shadows, Mephiles hax addition (Part 1)
Replies
33
Views
2K
Peptocoptr27
Peptocoptr27
Omegabronic
"Multiverse of Power" Sonic the Hedgehog (Main Continuity) Cosmology Scalling continuation
2 3
Replies
102
Views
7K
JJSliderman
JJSliderman
Peptocoptr27
Power Cores: Blue Speed, Yellow Flight, and Questionnable Exponentials
2 3
Replies
95
Views
5K
Theuser789
Theuser789
Back
Top