• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Removing hax resistances from Shadow, Espio, and Silver

Status
Not open for further replies.
JJSliderman said:
How are all the stories canon when all of them have the characters defeat Ifrit at the end?
Click to expand...
Have you, played the game? Literally all stories complemet another, such as Silver destroying the portal and thus in Shadow's story it closes, or the chao being saved in sonic's and silver talks about that, like bruh, none of the characters beat the Ifrit for like good

Example, Sonic saves the Chao
Sonic: Darn... Now where'd Eggman run off to?Tails: Sonic, wait up! There are tons of Chao sealed up in this secret room here!Sonic: Just as I figured... Eggman was behind this! Tails, get these Chao to a safe place.Tails: Got it!Sonic: Hmm... What's this strange door? Is this the portal to the other dimension?Tails: Eggman must've escaped through here! Uh-oh! The door's closing!Sonic: I'm not letting you get away that easy, Eggman! Tails, we gotta hurry! We need to catch him before the door closes!

Here it's mentioned in silver's:
Espio: Look! There's a portal opening! Is that the secret room?Silver: No, Espio... that's the portal to the Ifrit's dimension... It's too late. I knew there was way for me to change the future...Dr. Eggman Nega: Hee hee hee hee... Guess luck is just on my side. Now to get all those Chao from my secret chamber... Wh-what? They... they're gone! Every single one! How could this be?!Silver: Huh?!Espio: I guess luck isn't on your side after all.Dr. Eggman Nega: Ha! Even without the Chao, the Ifrit's might is still enough to destroy you! Come forth, Metal Sonic version 3.0! Proceed through the portal and awaken the Ifrit!Silver: That's not going to happen, Eggman Nega! I'm going to change the future with my own hands!
 
None of the stories have the other teams meet up at the end to fight Ifrit, and all of them end with the individual teams defeating Ifrit on their own, so that effectively means Ifrit was beaten and got back up three times.
 
JJSliderman said:
None of the stories have the other teams meet up at the end to fight Ifrit, and all of them end with the individual teams defeating Ifrit on their own, so that effectively means Ifrit was beaten and got back up three times.
Click to expand...
Again, they don't kill the Ifrit, they just fight him and then leave

Sonic literally gives up on finding Eggman
Sonic: Tails! Are you okay?Tails: Mmm... yeah, I think so.Sonic: I guess the Ifrit wasn't really as strong as it was cracked up to be.Tails: Hmm. Perhaps it wasn't fully revived yet?Sonic: No need to worry about that now, let's head back to the Chao Garden and take a break.Tails: But shouldn't we look for Eggman?Sonic: We've taken out the Ifrit and rescued all the Chao... So, why do we need to look for Eggman?Tails: I guess you're right. Huh? Sonic? Hey! Wait for me!

All stories complement one another, ending with Shadow (after the portal closes)
 
So what is known is that Ifrit has this hax. Its hax is shown to work on some characters, which is the main indication we know the hax is being used. The characters who aren't haxxed show no visible signs of being affected which, brings into question if they are affected at all. Ifrit only actually has its hax shown to work on one character at a time.

The arguments for it being passive are that Ifrit does it as soon as it wakes up, and that its intelligence is not high enough to think of targeting. The arguments for it not being passive are that it only affects one character at a time.

It being passive and multi-targeting would require the characters who aren't affected to have resistances.

It being passive and single-targeting means that at least the four characters who aren't affected across all routes would keep the resistance.

It being targeting and multi-targeting means either one of the characters wasn't targeted or both were targeted and one resisted for reasons still unknown (either due to the limited resistance working or the resistance shifting between routes)

It being targeting and single-targeting means no character has the resistance.
 
JJSliderman said:
So what is known is that Ifrit has this hax. Its hax is shown to work on some characters, which is the main indication we know the hax is being used. The characters who aren't haxxed show no visible signs of being affected which, brings into question if they are affected at all. Ifrit only actually has its hax shown to work on one character at a time.
Click to expand...
Which is where User's arguments apply, we have no idea who is the main character on these canon companies and how do they interchange with each other, thus the player is the only one who isn't affected even with the Ifrit's powers having planetary range within itself, which isn't exactly a contradiction given it's clearly an AOE thing.
JJSliderman said:
It being passive and multi-targeting would require the characters who aren't affected to have resistances.
Click to expand...
This is where the argument of limited resistance applies, if some are shown in other routes to resist the same variation of the ability.
 
“Knuckles: What the...?! No, he... he's controlling you! I don't want to have to do this, but I have no choice. I need to get the Master Emerald back! Wait a sec. Rouge is trying to break free. But there's no time. I'll have to fight both of them.”
Anyways that last comment is just listing possibilities, which is worthless by itself
 
So all we really have is arguments of characters trying to break free, but still affected by the hax, which is worthless.

There's no concrete proof the characters were even in danger from the hax in the Shadow and Silver stories, so the clear-cut resistances are pretty shaky. It should be downgraded to limited resistance across all characters I think.
 
JJSliderman said:
So all we really have is arguments of characters trying to break free, but still affected by the hax, which is worthless.

There's no concrete proof the characters were even in danger from the hax in the Shadow and Silver stories, so the clear-cut resistances are pretty shaky. It should be downgraded to limited resistance across all characters I think.
Click to expand...
Proof? You literally showed no proof except your own interpertation with nothing to support it
 
There has been no proof of why the hax was affecting these characters other than assumptions based on prior routes.

The Ifrit hax being multi-targeting has not been proven and is contradicted by all the routes where it only affects one character. Arguing that characters' limited resistance works in some routes and not others when it's the same level of resistance agains the same hax is headcanon. Arguing that resistances shift between routes is headcanon. The hax being used in the Shadow and Silver routes is just never seen in the game itself.
 
Honestly, even IF everything you said were true (it's not, you are just repeating shit ad nauseum and ignoring arguments), that everything is just headcanon, the burden of proof is STILL on you to provide evidence that your words are correct, and unless you do that then you just conceded, I will wait for proof from you instead of engaging in a circular debate
 
Buddy, I don't think you know what burden of proof means. It's not up to me to prove a negative, it's up to you to prove that the hax was used on Shadow/Silver/Espio.
 
No as the one who opened the thread and started the argument, YOU need to give evidence first and foremost before anything else. That is how burden of proof works. Once you give evidence, then the opposition is required to give evidence for its side. But since you are the OP, you must give your own evidence first.
 
Holy Tyrannosaurus what i've i been welcomed upon to.

Anyways, for all here i'd recommend to became more calm.

As for the CRT, this premise was all been debunked as the previous posts suggested, and all of the OP's arguments are either head canon or simply have no supporting evidence to back them up.
 
You are the one making a downgrade thread, you need to provide proof why the current ratings are wrong, it's that simple, unless you don't have any proof
 
Well, there's no evidence saying the hax was used on the characters in question, unlike in the other character scenarios, and the evidence for it being passive is about as likely as the evidence for it being targeted (and the single targeting is more evidence than multi-targeting). The arguments raised to say that the resistances displayed by Shadow and company aren't inconsistent are based on elements not present in the game itself, either the argument of the limited resistance changing between stories or the argument of resistances shifting between stories.
 
JJSliderman said:
Buddy, I don't think you know what burden of proof means. It's not up to me to prove a negative, it's up to you to prove that the hax was used on Shadow/Silver/Espio.
Click to expand...
No. What you need to do is disproving a positive, not prove a negative. And it's YOU who needs to do it because it's YOUR CRT. Don't like it? Then don't make a CRT with nothing but headcanon and baseless claims

Especially since you post these very often
 
Oh yeah, and saying Shadow and Silver were resisting the hax even when literally nothing in the game says they are and everything the game does points to the hax being targeting, isn't headcanon.
 
JJSliderman said:
Well, there's no evidence saying the hax was used on the characters in question, unlike in the other character scenarios, and the evidence for it being passive is about as likely as the evidence for it being targeted (and the single targeting is more evidence than multi-targeting). The arguments raised to say that the resistances displayed by Shadow and company aren't inconsistent are based on elements not present in the game itself, either the argument of the limited resistance changing between stories or the argument of resistances shifting between stories.
Click to expand...
Still no evidence that anything he says is correct
Click to expand...
 
JJSliderman said:
Shadow and Silver were resisting the hax even when literally nothing in the game says they are and everything the game does points to the hax being targeting, isn't headcanon.
Click to expand...
Do you really think the story would flat out state that Shadow and Silver are resisting the whole thing? How much blatant it can be even with the proofs of being passive?

Planetary range also says hi.
 
When two parties are in a discussion and one makes a claim (Ifrit's resistances are wrong) that the other disputes, the one who makes the claim typically has a burden of proof to justify or substantiate that claim especially when it challenges a perceived status quo (The resistances being valid).[
This is also stated in Hitchens's razor, which declares that "what may be asserted without evidence, may be dismissed without evidence."
One way in which one would attempt to shift the burden of proof is by committing a logical fallacy known as the argument from ignorance. It occurs when either a proposition is assumed to be true because it has not yet been proven false or a proposition is assumed to be false because it has not yet been proven true.
Click to expand...
 
The fact I have to prove something that isn't shown on-screen and isn't implied to have happened is fake is kind of shocking
 
We see on screen they not ba affected, cope, you made the claim, so you prove it, all this stalling makes me believe you have no proof
 
What we see on-screen is the hax not being seen affecting the characters, doesn't mean it actually happened.
 
At least with Dark Gaia we get an in-universe explanation, here it's just the hax doesn't show to make a tangible effect, the hax itself being inconsistent in how it works and how it affects people.
 
Gabs22_Gamer said:
I can use the same logic to say that Sonic didn't resist Dark Gaia's possession because it isn't flat out stated to be such thing?
Click to expand...
JJSliderman said:
At least with Dark Gaia we get an in-universe explanation, here it's just the hax doesn't show to make a tangible effect, the hax itself being inconsistent in how it works and how it affects people.
Click to expand...
I was about to say, wasn't Dark Gaia just stripping Sonic of the Werehog form in that instance, and (with the exception of the state of the restored Chaos Emeralds) not much else happened?

And if the fight was any indication, Werehog wasn't going to do that much vs Dark Gaia anyway. But that's just me.
 
Joycap said:
I was about to say, wasn't Dark Gaia just stripping Sonic of the Werehog form in that instance, and (with the exception of the state of the restored Chaos Emeralds) not much else happened?
Click to expand...
Dark Gaia is a different case because his energy was shown to affect people's minds and possess them when Amy is on Spagonia, directly from the minions, which Sonic completely shrugged off.
 
I like how you say I can't find any evidence, and yet you have no evidence Shadow was haxxed, or reasons against Ifrit being single-target with its hax when that's what shown to us in the game itself.
 
JJSliderman said:
and yet you have no evidence Shadow was haxxed, or reasons against Ifrit being single-target with its hax when that's what shown to us in the game itself.
Click to expand...
Shifting the burden of proof again
Click to expand...
We don't need to

Hitchens's razor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

And we have showed evidence for any claims WE did funnily enough, those last two are your claims (Shadow not being haxed and especially the Ifrit only attacking one guy)
 
Last edited:
My point at the beginning was there was no evidence of the hax being used on Shadow/Silver/Espio, and the evidence of it being multi-targeting has not been shown, on top of the passive arguments being on the same level as the arguments of it being targeting. To prove the hax should stay, you need to resolve these, since the evidence against them is demonstrated in-game against your points.
 
The evidence of being multi-targeted was answered once I have said that the Ifrit has planetary range, but you just seemed to ignore it.
 
I was about to say, the 'positive claim' is that they do have that hax to begin with, so burden of proof lands on whoever thought said hax/res was present to begin with (and in the case of multi-target claims, to what extent)

So yes @Theuser789 - burden of proof lands on you.

Gabs22_Gamer said:
The evidence of being multi-targeted was answered once I have said that the Ifrit has planetary range, but you just seemed to ignore it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and Xenoblade lower tiers get wanked to Planetary, when the bulk of their abilities are single-target. This literally means nothing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Omegabronic
"We found our flame, we are undefeatable warriors" Sonic the hedgehog Skill Thread CRT
2
Replies
58
Views
6K
Antvasima
Antvasima
SJG13673
  • Locked
Archie Sonic Upgrades; 2-C base cast, Tons of new Abilities and more
2
Replies
47
Views
2K
SJG13673
SJG13673
ShakeResounding
  • Locked
Chaos at The End of Everything: Shadow Generations CRT - Part 1
2 3
Replies
99
Views
6K
ShakeResounding
ShakeResounding
James_Plays_4_Games
  • Locked
Espio Intelligence Upgrade
Replies
11
Views
872
Starter_Pack
Starter_Pack
LukeChaosBlobz
Life is Roblox: Sonic Speed Simulator CRT
2 3
Replies
88
Views
5K
DoggoTron
DoggoTron
Back
Top