Removing Cm3 from mard geer

[Fixxed]

Continuing this Thread



Why in this scene getting Conceptual manipulation Type 3?

I think its only Existence erasure

My reasoning:
- Mard geer said destroy "concept life and death" this sentence sound flowery words
-mard geer there is no true evidence ever erasing concept life & death

 

[Everything12]

I see your point, and I agree that this statement doesn't seem enough evidence for Conceptual Manipulation.

 

[Antvasima]

I also agree with this.

@DemonGodMitchAubin would you like to comment here?

 

[Zackra1799]

There is no reason to assume flowery language here, in the official translation, Mard is very specific about the process that takes place for the EE to happen.

"To Murder the Immortal Zeref one must eliminate the very concepts of Life and Death!"

Mard explains that the curse specifically targets the concepts of life and death

"Those who fall under this curse are neither alive nor dead!"

By destroying the concepts, the targets can no longer be classified as alive or dead

"They cease to exist entirely!"

They get erased because of this, not the other way around.


So it being just EE doesn't make sense because the EE originates from the lake of concepts themselves.

Theres also that fact hat Mard uses the adjective "very" which literally means to show emphasis, exactness, ect. from Merriam Webster and places said emphasis on the concepts themselves rather than the EE portion.

There's also that fact that Zeref, a man cursed with immortality by the God of Life and Death himself, is able to resist other forms of EE such as Lost Aspect. So Mard having normal EE goes against the narrative itself, the context of the curse, and undermines his entire goal.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Yeah, I don’t agree with removing conceptual manip TBH

Zeref is an Immortal who has discovered no way to die in 400 Years, Zeref is the smartest person in the verse and knows about pretty much every magic that exists, which has Genesis Zero and the Lost Aspect, things which EE, and yet he never died to those things

When Mard Geer says that he needs remove the concepts of life and death to kill Zeref, he wouldn’t be just using flowery language, removing the concepts of life and death to kill Zeref is what is being explicitly said needs to be done to kill Zeref, if MM was just standard EE, it wouldn’t work

I really don’t see what’s incorrect about what Mard Geer says

 

[Fixxed]

Yeah, I don’t agree with removing conceptual manip TBH

Zeref is an Immortal who has discovered no way to die in 400 Years, Zeref is the smartest person in the verse and knows about pretty much every magic that exists, which has Genesis Zero and the Lost Aspect, things which EE, and yet he never died to those things

When Mard Geer says that he needs remove the concepts of life and death to kill Zeref, he wouldn’t be just using flowery language, removing the concepts of life and death to kill Zeref is what is being explicitly said needs to be done to kill Zeref, if MM was just standard EE, it wouldn’t work

I really don’t see what’s incorrect about what Mard Geer says

How about existence erasure but in higher degree?

 

[Bernkastelll]

How about existence erasure but in higher degree?

I guess that it is blatant Concept Manip, and as I showed in the previous thread, Fairy Tail also has others quotes of conceptual manipulation

 

[Fixxed]

I guess that it is blatant Concept Manip, and as I showed in the previous thread, Fairy Tail also has others quotes of conceptual manipulation

That's different case

Irene scene : idk for this, are you try to say if Irene Conceptual manipulation Type 3 because she can Use Conceptual enchantment?

 

[Bernkastelll]

That's different case

Irene scene : idk for this, are you try to say if Irene Conceptual manipulation Type 3 because she can Use Conceptual enchantment?

I am saying that the fact that Concept already is mentioned in the verse more times can help in the fact that it is not a flowery language

 

[Fixxed]

I am saying that the fact that Concept already is mentioned in the verse more times can help in the fact that it is not a flowery language

Okay.Even though we mention the concept of life and death, we have to evaluate whether momento mori literally erases the concept which erases concept life & death universally.

 

[Fixxed]

Also i have an example Character Jinka Yamato

which removes concept time to nothingness but still has no rating for CM3

 

[Shyouu]

which removes concept time to nothingness but still has no rating for CM3

Make a CRT about adding it then

 

[Fixxed]

Make a CRT about adding it then

After this CRT cleared, i Will make CRT about jinka....

 

[Fixxed]

I checked the databook,. But ITS not helping anything.

I mean in this thread, momento mori not erasing Concept life & death in universal scale

3. Aristotelian Concept: Such concepts are abstract and govern all reality. These concepts shape everything, and changing them would either require the alteration of every object of the concept or, if manipulated directly, change all objects of the concept alongside the concept itself


Momento mori is not Erased both concept of life and death in universal scale

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

It's because it designed to kill a person, by removing their concept of life and death. I don't recall the requirement to have universal range for a character to have concept manip.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Momento mori is not Erased both concept of life and death in universal scale

Imao, Who even said that memento Mori erases concepts on a universal scale????

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

Disagree with the removal btw

 

[Fixxed]

Imao, Who even said that memento Mori erases concepts on a universal scale????

I think Cm3 must have universal scale in minimum case

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

I think Cm3 must have universal scale in minimum case

Never stated that way anywhere though, this dude is an example:

Ichibē Hyōsube

Ichibē Hyōsube (兵ひょう主す部べ 一いち兵べ衛え?) is the leader of the Royal Guard, known as the Monk who Calls the Real Name (真ま名な呼こ和お尚しょう, Manako Oshō?) thanks to his ability to identify the true names of any being. It was he who named all things in the Soul Society, including Zanpakutō, Shikai, and Bankai...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Loyd]

does it have to be universal for cm3? and following the domino effect example for cm3 it makes sense
its an aoe attack that destroys the concept of life and death in it, having no life and death therfor natsu and gray would cease to exist EE a byproduct
nice of the databook to mention concept and mm is derived from the real life concept mm

i've been to plagued by damage for vsbw i'd be fine with Higher EE and cm3 possibly

if we also take into account zeref curse by the god of life and death mard geer could be referring to it aswell

 

[Fixxed]

Never stated that way anywhere though, this dude is an example:

Ichibē Hyōsube

Ichibē Hyōsube (兵ひょう主す部べ 一いち兵べ衛え?) is the leader of the Royal Guard, known as the Monk who Calls the Real Name (真ま名な呼こ和お尚しょう, Manako Oshō?) thanks to his ability to identify the true names of any being. It was he who named all things in the Soul Society, including Zanpakutō, Shikai, and Bankai...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Noted

 

[Fixxed]

Never stated that way anywhere though, this dude is an example:

Ichibē Hyōsube

Ichibē Hyōsube (兵ひょう主す部べ 一いち兵べ衛え?) is the leader of the Royal Guard, known as the Monk who Calls the Real Name (真ま名な呼こ和お尚しょう, Manako Oshō?) thanks to his ability to identify the true names of any being. It was he who named all things in the Soul Society, including Zanpakutō, Shikai, and Bankai...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Personal opinion by definition in ichibei page, Its cm4 For me & information manip(note: i am not a Bleach expert)

 

[Antvasima]

Yeah, I don’t agree with removing conceptual manip TBH

Zeref is an Immortal who has discovered no way to die in 400 Years, Zeref is the smartest person in the verse and knows about pretty much every magic that exists, which has Genesis Zero and the Lost Aspect, things which EE, and yet he never died to those things

When Mard Geer says that he needs remove the concepts of life and death to kill Zeref, he wouldn’t be just using flowery language, removing the concepts of life and death to kill Zeref is what is being explicitly said needs to be done to kill Zeref, if MM was just standard EE, it wouldn’t work

I really don’t see what’s incorrect about what Mard Geer says

Okay. Never mind then. Should I close this thread?

 

[Fixxed]

Okay. Never mind then. Should I close this thread?

Can you tag other knowledge member to give conclusion in this CRT?

 

[Antvasima]

@IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 @Beast_Zero_Gudako @Theglassman12 @Elizhaa @DragonGamerZ913

What do you think about this?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

@IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 @Beast_Zero_Gudako @Theglassman12 @Elizhaa @DragonGamerZ913

What do you think about this?

Some of those knowledgeable members outdated as hell

 

[Theglassman12]

I don’t really see how range is a necessity for concept hax to work, don’t really see why this should be removed unless it was a mistranslation.

 

[SamanPatou]

I don't know which type of concept hax it would be, but I think it should stay.

Normally I would agree with it being flowery language or a hyperbole, but the official translation says "the very concepts", which makes me think of it as literal.

Alternatively, we can check the japanese scans (if someone has them), have them translated and see it they are that literal too.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I’m in agreement with Saman. It’s officially translated this way, plus he says that he has to do this existence erasure “by destroying the concepts of life and death,” so he’s affecting those concepts in order to do the existence erasure.

Although, I can understand the argument for this being flowery language. Regardless, I think it should stay.

 

[Fixxed]

Thanks for the input

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

So what now?

 

[Antvasima]

Some of those knowledgeable members outdated as hell

The ones that I called are still active, but the list as a whole needs to be cleaned up so all members that have been inactive for over a year should be removed from it.

 

[Antvasima]

So what now?

I think that we can close this thread, if nobody objects.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Yeah, majority agrees that the ability stays, I will close this now