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Fairy Tail Conceptual Manipulation Revisions

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Deceived3596 said:
Yes, that's why this isn't Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation, as if it was eliminating the very concepts of life and death, which it's stated capable of doing, and if these supposed concepts reference the universal variety of concepts (ala Type 2). Then everyone who is bound by life and death would've been erased since he would've eliminated those universal concepts.
Click to expand...
But in the case here they are removing the concepts of life and death through a mist that logically does not have a universal reach.
 
Yeah, that's the point. If Memento Mori was actively manipulating and eliminating the universal concepts of life and death, than when he activated the ability everyone who is bound by life and death should've been erased as he supposedly eliminated the universe concepts themselves, but that didn't happen, ergo that means he isn't manipulating the universal concepts, but rather, is instead manipulating people's personal concepts of life and death, which would just be Type 3.
 
Deceived3596 said:
Yeah, that's the point. If Memento Mori was actively manipulating and eliminating the universal concepts of life and death, than when he activated the ability everyone who is bound by life and death should've been erased as he supposedly eliminated the universe concepts themselves, but that didn't happen, ergo that means he isn't manipulating the universal concepts, but rather, is instead manipulating people's personal concepts of life and death, which would just be Type 3.
Click to expand...
He is eliminating the concept of life and death only within the mist not the universe.
 
Alright, with the distractions having been addressed let me finally jot down my thoughts on SBT's Conceptual Manipulation.

As a preface, here is Mitch's old SBT thread which contains all the scans I'll be using, and the explanation for SBT having Conceptual Manipulation in the first place. While I'll explain why I believe it should be considered as Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation.

We're told by Anna Heartfilia that the Space Between Time was indirectly created by time trying to fix itself after it was warped by Anna's usage of the Eclipse Gate. It's even speculated on that the concept of time was trying to repair itself from this damage, which while proposed as a hypothesis, seems to have more supporting evidence of being true compared to the previous interpretation as the Space Between Time is referenced to exist more like a concept rather than something physical.

So we have evidence of this potentially affecting the concept of time, so we'll now have to find out what exact "type" of concept this concept of time would be. Since we aren't directly told needed qualifiers for Type 2 or above, we'll have to derive such knowledge through deductive reasoning.

When Anna's referencing the "concept of time" it's contextually talking about her travels through time with the Eclipse Gate causing damage to the fabric of time itself. So it's referencing "time" in the general, universal sense of the word, not the personal sense of one's conception of time. This notion of generality is supported by Zeref's interaction with the Space Between Time, as after he absorbed the object of question alongside Fairy Heart, it's stated he's capable of manipulating "Space and Time, everything is mine to control". Which again implies the manipulation of those general constructs, not individual conceptions of them.

It's even further supported by Zeref's ultimate goal and Natsu's erasure of Zeref's magic:

With Zeref's ultimate goal, he wanted to activate an ability called "Neo Eclipse" which can only be gained through absorbing the Fairy Heart and the Space Between Time. What this ability does is connect the world with the Space Between Time, which when activated, allows Zeref to travel back in time, causing the previous world he inhabited to crumble away and give birth to another world. This again implies the Space Between Time affecting the general concept of time, not just one's personal conception.

Finally you have Natsu's flames burning up Zeref's magic, which is stated to cause "time itself" to burn away.

So with everything explained and referenced above, I believe we can assert with great probability that the Space Between Time should be considered as a Type 2 Concept.
 
Seeing Deceived's explanation i have been converted and now agree with Type 2 for the SBT and Type 3 for Memento Mori.
 
@Damage3245 @SamanPatou Could you check this to see if Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation makes sense for the Space Between Time?
Deceived3596 said:
Alright, with the distractions having been addressed let me finally jot down my thoughts on SBT's Conceptual Manipulation.

As a preface, here is Mitch's old SBT thread which contains all the scans I'll be using, and the explanation for SBT having Conceptual Manipulation in the first place. While I'll explain why I believe it should be considered as Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation.

We're told by Anna Heartfilia that the Space Between Time was indirectly created by time trying to fix itself after it was warped by Anna's usage of the Eclipse Gate. It's even speculated on that the concept of time was trying to repair itself from this damage, which while proposed as a hypothesis, seems to have more supporting evidence of being true compared to the previous interpretation as the Space Between Time is referenced to exist more like a concept rather than something physical.

So we have evidence of this potentially affecting the concept of time, so we'll now have to find out what exact "type" of concept this concept of time would be. Since we aren't directly told needed qualifiers for Type 2 or above, we'll have to derive such knowledge through deductive reasoning.

When Anna's referencing the "concept of time" it's contextually talking about her travels through time with the Eclipse Gate causing damage to the fabric of time itself. So it's referencing "time" in the general, universal sense of the word, not the personal sense of one's conception of time. This notion of generality is supported by Zeref's interaction with the Space Between Time, as after he absorbed the object of question alongside Fairy Heart, it's stated he's capable of manipulating "Space and Time, everything is mine to control". Which again implies the manipulation of those general constructs, not individual conceptions of them.

It's even further supported by Zeref's ultimate goal and Natsu's erasure of Zeref's magic:

With Zeref's ultimate goal, he wanted to activate an ability called "Neo Eclipse" which can only be gained through absorbing the Fairy Heart and the Space Between Time. What this ability does is connect the world with the Space Between Time, which when activated, allows Zeref to travel back in time, causing the previous world he inhabited to crumble away and give birth to another world. This again implies the Space Between Time affecting the general concept of time, not just one's personal conception.

Finally you have Natsu's flames burning up Zeref's magic, which is stated to cause "time itself" to burn away.

So with everything explained and referenced above, I believe we can assert with great probability that the Space Between Time should be considered as a Type 2 Concept.
Click to expand...
 
Damage3245 said:
Still got to continue my MHA post too
Click to expand...
Animated depiction of what Clover's going through right now in that Star and Stripe thread:

jay-skeleton.gif
 
Deceived3596 said:
Animated depiction of what Clover's going through right now in that Star and Stripe thread:
Click to expand...
If you think it's bad waiting for it, imagine how frustrating it is to want to be writing it but unable to find the time.
 
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