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Reinhard Heydrich VS The Crimson King

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Also, fourth wall breaking is not even a combat applicable feat.

I'm pretty sure Reinhard stomps this via being 8(?) times about "baseline" 1-A, and having millions of resurrecting Einhejar who are all physically as strong as him, and 12 of which have fancy hax.
 
I guess I'm going to have to be the one to ask this, then.

Does anyone here actually know what the Crimson King's true form has ever done outside of 'opposing Gan'?

Because outside of manipulating plot and character fates within realms far beneath his own, I can't remember jack shit that he's ever done in any of the novels he ever appeared in. (barring his avatar which, despite them being few and far-between, possesses actual feats)
 
Crimson King can survive the collapse of the Dark Tower, reality itself, and carry on with ruling Discordia, the remaining void. On one level of the Dark Tower, an infinite universe is less than an atom in a higher universe/macroverse, which contains infinite universes on a lower level. This multiverse/macroverse is in turn less than an atom on the floor above. This system literally continued forever, and the Crimson King exceeds all of this as the ultimate embodiment of evil.
 
Yeah...

Featless 1-A vs 1-A who has feats of summoning millions of beings just as strong as he is?

WHO WINS

YOU DECIDE
 
D-Ruler Nekroz said:
Crimson King can survive the collapse of the Dark Tower, reality itself, and carry on with ruling Discordia, the remaining void.
Click to expand...
Unless I'm mistaken, this is largely due to him existing in a room above said reality. He's not 'surviving the collapse' of it. He's just 'watching the collapse from somewhere that can't be touched by the devastation'.
 
Summoning beings as strong as you are kinda wouldn't matter if they were on the same level, me thinks, since it's all about "qualitative superiority" by then.

Case in point, they aren't. Rein doesn't even need the Legion, he gets bored at CK being "weak" and throws spear.
 
Honestly, should this match even continue at this point? One guy has feats on his level. The other one doesn't even show up in his series outside of his infinitely weaker avatar. There's nothing to even debate here.

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The Crimson King believed that not only would he survive the collapse of the Dark Tower, but he could also rule over the resulting chaos and re-fashion the universe to his liking. Because of the King's madness, it is not clear if this is true.
 
Wait a sec, the Crimson King cant die. What exactly is the Reinhard going to do to get around that little detail? When existance ends, and I mean everything (universes, heaven, hell, anti-matter universes, et al), the Crimson King will be just fine - thats what he wants. Reinhard, meanwhile, has died before...

The Crimson King will know what the Reinhard is going to do past, present, and future. Everything. In fact, along with Gan, he dictates fate/ka for everything.....every particle, every person, every planet, every universe in existence. From a man savagely beating a dog to death to a universe ending in unimaginable destruction. He is the Random and, as such, will dictate exactly what the Reinhard is going to do. Reinhard will be doing what the Red King wants without even being aware of it. Events will happen as the Crimson King dictates them to happen.

Really, Reinhard can destroy universes all he wants, its actually beneficial to the Crimson King (even if an avatar is collateral damage). I cant see the Reinhard doing anything the Crimson King wont be happy with - such destruction fuels the King and gets him one step closer to his goals.
 
Rein doesn't have the spear in this form IIRC

As for qualitative superiority, not really. Numerical advantages are still valid, even at this level. If Rein and SK were both equally powerful, Rein gaining numerical advantage would still help immensely.
 
Even Los, the weakened avatar of the true Crimson King can fight, speak and tank psychic attacks that were supposed to erase him from existence while being trapped in a room outside of all time, space and dimensions. The true CK, Dis, arose from the Outer Dark just like Gan, and is far beyond any concept of time, space or dimensions.
 
Alright, let's be clear here. The Crimson King can't 'dictate' what other 1-As do, since he never did so to Gan at any point in the Stephen King continuity. Gan is on his exact same level of 'existence', just like (this version of) Reinhard.

If he could influence the actions of other 1-As, he:

  • Would have never had anything keeping him from destroying the Tower. (Which, y'know, was his entire goal in the Dark Tower novels.)
  • Could have stopped Gan from empowering the Losers Club at the end of the IT novel, thus preventing Pennywise from being defeated.
  • Could have stopped Gan from manipulating Randall Flagg's energy and destroying Las Vegas at the end of The Stand.
Sadly, he didn't do any of that. Wanna know why?

Because he can't.
 
Can fight, speak and tank psychic attacks that were supposed to erase him from existence

You mean like attacks from this guy and this guy?

Outside of all time, space and dimensions

So... exactly like the Singularity? That place where Reinhard fights in his Hadou God form?

Is far beyond any concept of time, space or dimensions

So... just like every 1-A?
 
1/ Well nothing stop him destroying the Tower, Breaker still destroy the Beam and the Tower they service for Crimson King

2/ Why he must stopped Gan from empowering the Loser Club?

3/ Yeah for real Gan is more powerful than him
 
Monarch Laciel said:
Numerical advantages are still valid, even at this level. If Rein and SK were both equally powerful, Rein gaining numerical advantage would still help immensely.
Click to expand...
Implying we didn't point that out in a certain controversial thread and it was suddenly said it doesn't matter. ovo

Point.
 
Would that certain controversial thread be one that resulted in my Goddess manipulating me to bring about her existence?

Though in this case, Reinhard still probably stomps even without his Legion. SK is only baseline 1-A, i.e. on the level of the Throne, whereas Reinhard is infinitely stronger than people who are infinitely stronger than people who are infinitely stronger than people who are infinitely stronger than people who are infinitely stronger than people who are infinitely stronger than people who are infinitely stronger than people who can easily destroy the throne
 
Monarch Laciel said:
Can fight, speak and tank psychic attacks that were supposed to erase him from existence
You mean like attacks from this guy and this guy?

Outside of all time, space and dimensions

So... exactly like the Singularity? That place where Reinhard fights in his Hadou God form?

Is far beyond any concept of time, space or dimensions

So... just like every 1-A?
Click to expand...
Yeah and the Avatar just like every 1-A
 
Not sure, but controversial stuff is best left forgotten. Though this actually brings me to the question as for why when the LDO is normally summoned (In base Reinhard ) they don't become the same level (tier) as Reinhard. Guess it only works on the "bring to the same existential level" stuff?
 
@Nekroz, it's reasonable to assume the avatar is weaker than the real SK

However, even if we assume real SK is literally infinitely stronger than the avatar, that still means he is 8 X infinity weaker than Reinhard
 
FateAlbane said:
Not sure, but controversial stuff is best left forgotten. Though this actually brings me to the question as for why when the LDO is normally summoned (In base Reinhard ) they don't become the same level (tier) as Reinhard. Guess it only works on the "bring to the same existential level" stuff?
Click to expand...
His Briah (6-A/4-C) doesn't bring them all to his level. Its just not part of it.

However, his Law does. In Hadou God mode, Reinhard's Law basically brings all his legion to his own level of existence (i.e. beings with 90 Taikyoku, so they are all just as strong as he is) and constantly resurrects them even if they are completely erased.

A Law is a super-amped Briah, but it does get some other stuff too.
 
D-Ruler Nekroz said:
1/ Well nothing stop him destroying the Tower, Breaker still destroy the Beam and the Tower they service for Crimson King
2/ Why he must stopped Gan from empowering the Loser Club?

3/ Yeah for real Gan is more powerful than him
Click to expand...


  • He needed the Breakers to destroy the Tower because he couldn't do so himself. Were it not for Gan opposing his every action, he would have had no trouble simply smiting the Tower on his own.
  • It's heavily implied that he basically thrives on chaos and death within the multiverse, and actually loses power whenever good trumps evil. He clearly has a lot to gain from Pennywise's victory in that scenario.
  • Gan is a baseline 1-A, and Randall Flagg is one of the main agents of chaos in the multiverse who, as such, would be extremely valuable to the King. The fact that he personally took Flagg under his wing after the events of The Stand, but was unable to actually prevent Gan's interference within said story, should tell you something.
 
D-Ruler Nekroz said:
@Laciel Just tell me why?
Click to expand...
DI has this thing called Taikyoku (TY for short). Basically, its the source of all dimensional space, existence and non-existence. To liken it to Dark Tower, it is the source of both the Tower and the Chaos before. It is measured in units of TY, and having even a single unit of TY makes you a 1-A god.

There is also this thing called the Throne. The Throne simulataneously contains and transcneds all of existence and non-existence. Everything that is, and everything that is not lies within the Throne. We use the Throne as "baseline" 1-A in relation to DI, because the Throne is something above the concepts of dimensions.

A god with even 1 TY unit can utterly destroy the Throne without any effort. Having more than 10 TY than another God means that you are infinitely stronger than them and no matter what they do they cannot beat you. If a God with 1 TY has an ability to erase anything with a thought, they will still lose utterly to a God with 11 TY who can make pretty rainbows.

Reinhard has 90 Taikyoku. Hence, he is 9 times infinity above baseline 1-As

The SK is only baseline 1-A, because he doesn't have any better feats.
 
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