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Regarding Might Guy's Attack Potency and Complete Susano'o AP and Durability

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Gallavant wrote:
Maybe he can potentially make a big CT 60% the size of S06p's but how does that relate to his durability or the power of his other techniques?

Are we really saying all those country size "raindrops" Madara dropped were Moon level, despite being iirc from the calculation hundredths the volume of a Moon? They're just falling rocks

The Moon is the size of a Country. It's not the size that matters, but it's the gravitational binding energy. I noticed you've gone very off topic. Should we give you two some space?
 
TheMightyRegulator said:
Gallavant wrote:
Maybe he can potentially make a big CT 60% the size of S06p's but how does that relate to his durability or the power of his other techniques?

Are we really saying all those country size "raindrops" Madara dropped were Moon level, despite being iirc from the calculation hundredths the volume of a Moon? They're just falling rocks
Click to expand...
The Moon is the size of a Country. It's not the size that matters, but it's the gravitational binding energy. I noticed you've gone very off topic. Should we give you two some space?
Except GBE shouldnt be that relevant yet at such a small mass and its made of rock pulled from the continent below so its density should be similar. We have a calculation here, are we disregarding the physics of a falling rock for shoddily powerscaling a character's full power to what is likely a casual attack?
 
What I want to know is:

In what instance did Madara survive an attack that would have been Moon or Small Planet level and how do we know the power of that attack? Specifically what technique/when. To my knowledge Lava rasen shuriken from that version of Naruto didnt harm someone who survived a Moon level attack but it was only the super tailed beast ball rasen shuriken barrage later that did during the fight with Kaguya

We know Naruto can easily bust the falling rocks in the calculation linked in the url above so that scales.

A character version's fullest AP potential doesn't mean surviving any technique from that character is the same as surviving that character's best technique. That's why simply pointing out a character's AP listed on their page isn't enough. It's a simplistic view of AP that leads to stat inflation
 
He shouldnt need to as Hagoromo didnt as far as we know either.

Power output = Durability is whats used for like 99% of profiles on this site excluding characters who have shown to have lower durability than power.

If you want madaras durability downgraded than bring evidence of his power output being superior to his durability even a base naruto can tank kyuubi bijuu bombs in the last.
 
CHILLVIBEZZ said:
He shouldnt need to as Hagoromo didnt as far as we know either.
Power output = Durability is whats used for like 99% of profiles on this site excluding characters who have shown to have lower durability than power.

If you want madaras durability downgraded than bring evidence of his power output being superior to his durability even a base naruto can tank kyuubi bijuu bombs in the last.
Click to expand...
Durability needs to be proven to be the same as the maximum AP, especially in a case like this where the maximum AP is clearly not being thrown around between characters. It's not like there aren't a bunch of characters in Naruto who can stab themselves or get wounded by throwing knives at each other I mean kunai and shuriken. Feats and legit powerscaling prove stats, not assumptions. Put "Likely Moon level" and leave the proven durability alone as it was if it makes you feel better.
 
Then likely shall be put to all profiles who have not shown the lvl of durability as AP this extends to 99% of profiles on this site so unless all those are changed madara wont be an exception.
 
CHILLVIBEZZ said:
Then likely shall be put to all profiles who have not shown the lvl of durability as AP this extends to 99% of profiles on this site so unless all those are changed madara wont be an exception.
Click to expand...
Then we should start somewhere. AP Revision, why not a durability revision?

I guess those are pretty powerful Kunai.
 
Then we should start somewhere. AP Revision, why not a durability revision?

I guess those are pretty powerful Kunai.

As long as everyone is given the same treatment I could care less. And Kunai are indeed op
 
Its basically just more concentration on the reasoning of why the main stats are listed as they are. I doubt it would be a major revision, or at least not one that could be carried out systematically like the AP one.
 
We do not have the time, energy or resources for another revision project so soon after the last, and although I agree that the scaling is often inprecise and iffy, and that plenty of characters that are probably "glass cannons" are not listed as such, we have to evaluate them on an individual basis, as we usually do not have enough information to make a decent call.

Madara was decided to be upgraded based on Hagoromo's statement that his power was approaching his own (and then likely exceeded it, after Madara collected all of Kaguya's power).
 
Anyway, this is off-topic, so we should probably return to the issue of Gai being upgraded.

Btw: It has been quite a while Gallavant. Do you wish to return to the Calculation Group?
 
Maybe he can potentially make a big CT 60% the size of S06p's but how does that relate to his durability or the power of his other techniques?
Are we really saying all those country size "raindrops" Madara dropped were Moon level, despite being iirc from the calculation hundredths perhaps thousandths the volume of a Moon? They're just falling rocks

It's called power-scaling... Madara isn't 60% weaker than Hagoromo. I take it you're one of those people who thinks power-scaling is bull.
 
I rechecked the manga Guy obliterated One-Rinnegan Madara.

Now in this thread almost everyone is acting like One-Rinnegan madara(got overwhelmed by guy), Two-rinnegan madara (performed continent level chibaku tensei), And tree absorbed Rinne-Sharingan madara are all Small-Planet Level.I have no problem Rinne-Sharingan madara to be Small planet level but One-rinnegan and two rinnegan as well????No thats just insanity.One rinnegan madara should not be anything more than moon level (I would personally go for continent to muti-continent level).Considering two-rinnegan madara performed only a continent level feat.

My opinion: Evening elephant=Multi Continent level(about ten of them can deal damage to a moon level character)

Night Guy=Moon level(Low end).

And for Naruto and Sasuke.They are Small Planet level when they faught each other.Sasuke's Bijuu susanoo and Naruto's earth's natural energy absorbed STBB rasenshurikens are only Small planet level.Others jutsus are between Continent to Moon level.
 
Basilisk1995 said:
I rechecked the manga Guy obliterated One-Rinnegan Madara.Now in this thread almost everyone is acting like One-Rinnegan madara(got overwhelmed by guy), Two-rinnegan madara (performed continent level chibaku tensei), And tree absorbed Rinne-Sharingan madara are all Small-Planet Level.I have no problem Rinne-Sharingan madara to be Small planet level but One-rinnegan and two rinnegan as well????No thats just insanity.One rinnegan madara should not be anything more than moon level (I would personally go for continent to muti-continent level).Considering two-rinnegan madara performed only a continent level feat.
My opinion: Evening elephant=Multi Continent level(about ten of them can deal damage to a moon level character)

Night Guy=Moon level(Low end).

And for Naruto and Sasuke.They are Small Planet level when they faught each other.Sasuke's Bijuu susanoo and Naruto's earth's natural energy absorbed STBB rasenshurikens are only Small planet level.Others jutsus are between Continent to Moon level.
Click to expand...
What you're ignoring, is that Single Rinnegan Madara has Small Planet Level durability.
 
Why??Are you saying Single Rinnegan madara,Double rinnegan madara and Rinne-Sharingan Madara all are equal and Small planet level???

Its common Naruto sense that Rinne Sharingan and Tree absorbing Gave madara hugeee power up.So ,I cannot in right mind accept that One-Rinnegan madara is same as RinneSharingan+Tree absorbed madara(who is Low 5-B).So one-sharingan madara is only Moon level at best considering Two sharingan madara performed a casual continent level feat.
 
I think that what Basilisk1995 wrote seems to make sense.
 
Basilisk1995 said:
Why??Are you saying Single Rinnegan madara,Double rinnegan madara and Rinne-Sharingan Madara all are equal and Small planet level???
Its common Naruto sense that Rinne Sharingan and Tree absorbing Gave madara hugeee power up.So ,I cannot in right mind accept that One-Rinnegan madara is same as RinneSharingan+Tree absorbed madara(who is Low 5-B).So one-sharingan madara is only Moon level at best considering Two sharingan madara performed a casual continent level feat.
Click to expand...
One-Rinnegan Madara was stated to be nearly equal to Hagoromo who has a Small Planet level feat. At the very least he'd be high Moon level.
 
Basilisk1995 said:
I rechecked the manga Guy obliterated One-Rinnegan Madara.
Now in this thread almost everyone is acting like One-Rinnegan madara(got overwhelmed by guy), Two-rinnegan madara (performed continent level chibaku tensei), And tree absorbed Rinne-Sharingan madara are all Small-Planet Level.I have no problem Rinne-Sharingan madara to be Small planet level but One-rinnegan and two rinnegan as well????No thats just insanity.One rinnegan madara should not be anything more than moon level (I would personally go for continent to muti-continent level).Considering two-rinnegan madara performed only a continent level feat.

My opinion: Evening elephant=Multi Continent level(about ten of them can deal damage to a moon level character)

Night Guy=Moon level(Low end).

And for Naruto and Sasuke.They are Small Planet level when they faught each other.Sasuke's Bijuu susanoo and Naruto's earth's natural energy absorbed STBB rasenshurikens are only Small planet level.Others jutsus are between Continent to Moon level.
Click to expand...
It's pretty much what I said too.
 
SO6P Naruto traded blows with Kaguya who was stronger than the sage. There is no way he's continental.

Night Guy ignores durability.

Madara was not obliterated by Guy. He was even laughing at Guy's efforts and took his deadliest attack...and was still able to survive an attack from sage of sixth paths Naruto. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here...

I'm willing to compromise with at least Moon level One Rineggan Madara but Two Rinnegan as well as rinnesharingan are blatantly small planet.
 
Didn't Guy's Night Guy warped space around his attack or something? That's probably where it would ignore durability right????
 
Actually Night Guy was twisting the air around him

*********** translation btw.
 
Oh so he's twisting it, not bending it. What's the difference between them tho? Ahehe...had to ask that...
 
  • Bend: To cause (something) to change its shape into a curve, by physical force, chemical action, or any other means.
  • Twist: Rotation of a body about its axis. Or something like that
 
Viz translation says a lot of things bad. It isn't the best source for translations.

Anyway, Off Topic.
 
So are Might Guy's current statistics acceptable or not?
 
I agree with Might Guy's current stats. There's too much evidence pointing to him being one of the higher-tiers in Naruto unlike several other characters.
 
Well, people were arguing about upgrading him.
 
@Antvasima

From my japanese raw

þ®║ÚûôÒüîÒü¡Òüÿµø▓ÒüîÒüñÒüƒÒüáÒü¿

"He is twisting the airspace around him"

The keyword is þ®║Úûô which means airspace, not space. So the translation is wrong, Maito Gai did not bend space with his attack.

Õñ£Òé¼Òéñ
 
All right. Thank you for the clarification.
 
UncleSpaceman said:
@Antvasima From my japanese raw
þ®║ÚûôÒüîÒü¡Òüÿµø▓ÒüîÒüñÒüƒÒüáÒü¿

"He is twisting the airspace around him"

The keyword is þ®║Úûô which means airspace, not space. So the translation is wrong, Maito Gai did not bend space with his attack.

Õñ£Òé¼Òéñ
Click to expand...


the word þ®║Úûô (Kuukan) used in that scene literally translates into "space".

Airspace is a possible interpretation but it's not the direct meaning and furthermore an expression related to aerodynamics and planes. I don't think that Guy is a plane, nor was he flying so there is no reason to use the airspace interpretation over the literal meaning.

And you can even see Madara's staff bending towrads him as an indication that his mass had increased enough to affect space which is what happens when an objcet accelerates towards the speed of light
 
Also while we're at it Hashirama should be At least 6-C or 6-B

Madaras Tengai shinsei is At least island lvl -> https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Kkapoios/Madara's_Tengai_Shinsei

He used those with minimal effort on the shinobi alliance.

Edo tensei are not as strong as real ppl and hashirama confirms this by saying that Madara reclaimed the power he once had meaning his edo form was factually weaker. -> http://www.**********.com/naruto/657/17

Hashirama shattered his PS + injured kyuubi who had both halves of his chakra. 6-C is way too low for that if a weakened Madara can generate that much power without trying.
 
Hmm. I don't know if we can make any specific assumptions too high above, but if the weaker Edo tensei Madara could use 54 Gigatons of force without trying, it seems reasonable to place Hashirama at "At least High 6-C. Likely higher".

Anyway, returning to Gai. We still haven't decided where to place him?
 
Databook,manga and anime all stated he disorted space so given that space being disorted within his immediate vicinity had obvious influence on his attack and that going by the wikis description Madara shouldn't be able to defend himself ->http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Night_Guy

I think he should be At least Moon lvl instead as his other attacks could potentially threaten Madara after a couple of shots
 
Well, what incarnation of Madara was Guy a threat to (I don't remember anymore), and how powerful was that incarnation?
 
One eyed Rikudo Madara with no shinju tree absorbed he was mentioned to be near Hagoromos lvl but Madara only said that Gais attacks would be bad after multiple shots so not at once
 
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