Record of Ragnarok: Whatever the hell happened to this verse

[Tyri456]

That does not adress anything of what I said.

The fact is writen 0.00000000000 without an end on the panel and not actually just zero one single time, actually support my interpretation, and the backgroud is irrelevant, since that would happen even with infinite speed too. But the context of the fight, therefore them increase their speed during the fight remain lol.

 

[Tyri456]

• they are increasing their speed continuosly, showing they are faster page after page
• there are timeframes always decreasing page after page, blatantly showing them going faster

- "Nah it is different from the others one, it is not speed in this case, it is time stop, despite the context is completely different"

Sure lol.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

The fact is writen 0.00000000000 without an end on the panel and not actually just zero

So what, you're arguing that the time frame isn't actually zero? If it isn't, it'd be neither time stop nor infinite speed.

one single time, actually support my interpretation, and the backgroud is irrelevant, since that would happen even with infinite speed too.

Generic time stop effect would not occur without it being time stop.

And how exactly does it being one single time support your interpretation.

• they are increasing their speed continuosly, showing they are faster page after page
• there are timeframes always decreasing page after page, blatantly showing them going faster

- "Nah it is different from the others one, it is not speed in this case, it is time stop, despite the context is completely different"

Sure lol.

• Is stated to exert control over time with the mere mention of its name
• Comes from the personification of time, Chronos
• Generic time stop effect

"lol no too vague to be time stop must be infinite speed because of c o n t e x t"

 

[Tyri456]

There is a substantial difference between speed and time stop, even a normal human can time stop, but still being slow as ****; in this case nothing suggest that, neither is stated, it was Zeus accelerating and going faster, page after page, showing always smaller timeframes, until he reached the one with a countless series of zero that cannot be written on the manga reached by sheer speed.

Your arguments are only based on the "effects" caused by the punch which are the same as the infinite speed lol, with the difference that the fight context wise, was about speed increase all the ******* time, going against your interpretations.

Is ated to exert control over time with the mere mention of its namest

Since when that implies time stop and not speed increase as the series blatantly show?

Comes from the personification of time, Chronos

Since when that implies time stop and not speed increase as the series blatantly show? (2)

Generic time stop effect

Infinite speed as the same effects. It is not an argument whatsoever-

what you are impliying is that time manipulation -> time stop, when the premise of your entire argument is wrong since time manipulation can be used for anything, even sheer speed, which is the actual context of the fight.

It does support it, because the timeframes were

0.001 -> 0.00001 -> 0.00000001 -> 0.00000000000....

Why in the world that would be time stop, lol, you didnt posted any relevant arguments that aren't solely based on time manipulation (alredy debunked since he used it for sheer speed for the whole fight) and the "generic "time stop effects" which means nothing since would emulate infinite speed too

 

[Axxtentacle]

So the debate here is that it’s either infinite speed, or time stop.

To me, it seems that Zeus used some kind of power amplification, and reached Infinite speed as energy is seemingly shown coming to him, specifically his fist.

Context wise, it is pretty much just that they’re getting continuously faster as the fight goes on and on, as the timeframes for both of their attacks get shorter and shorter.

I could see it going either way, as that one attack having infinite speed via temporary power/stats amplification makes sense, as that same energy effect isn’t shown after Zeus goes into his Adamas form.

I thought it could be useful to get a slightly different perspective, but i’m really fine with it going either way.

Also, why was that bit about characters being able to react to things they shouldn’t be able to react to as a trope seemingly dismissed? It does make sense, considering the Ares bit, unless someone wants to say that Adamas Zeus is slower than base Zeus.

It’s also been a while since i’ve reread the Zeus vs Adam fight so I may be mistaken, and if I am, feel free to dismiss/disprove anything I say that’s just blatantly incorrect.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

Again, if Zeus kept accelerating until reaching a time frame of 0 with the Fist That Surpassed Time, achieving infinite speed, why would he then proceed to go into his Adamas form and fight Adam at speeds that are finite if the context of the whole fight is constantly accelerating?

Time manip can indeed be used to accelerate one's time to achieve faster speed, but that's not what's implied. It says "exert control over all of time" not just Zeus' time, which is how a speed boost via time manip works. Also, just because the zeros go off panel doesn't mean there is a countless many of them. The interpretation that it's just an extreme degree of slowing down time without fully stopping it is a valid one. The way I see it, the zeros going off panel is a representation of time grinding down (possibly) to a halt.

 

[Tyri456]

To me, it seems that Zeus used some kind of power amplification, and reached Infinite speed as energy is seemingly shown coming to him, specifically his fist.

Context wise, it is pretty much just that they’re getting continuously faster as the fight goes on and on, as the timeframes for both of their attacks get shorter and shorter.

Thanks to actaully comprehend the manga.

Time manip can indeed be used to accelerate one's time to achieve faster speed

Thanks for the concede.

The whole point of zeus ability is increasing speed, using time powers, as you saw for the whole fight, he was going faster every time showing smaller timeframes, blantantly showing speed increase.

here
here
here

At the end they shown this. Why that should be an exception? why if the other are speed increase this one should not be? you havent posted a single valid arguments about that.

That means zeus ability of speed increase can reach that, and what does that proves? that if the timeframe was 0.000001 or even 0.000000001 he can still reach it with his power, since he was able to reach a point of zero (0.000000000) where time seeming to halt. From that interpretation, and given the context the only logical conclusion is that he can accelerate speed to his point.

A time stop user can't to that, a time stop user can just stop time and not amp his onw speed to reach that level, zeus can manipulate it to reach the level of speed it desire, that is the differnce. there isn't a single valid argument, your interpretation is valid if we ignore the whole fight and zeus ability.

The adams fight is irrelvant, zeus understood that all was useless and used a new strategy, also both of them pretty much reached the limit.

 

[Overlord775]

@Tyri456

Clearly shows time being stopped, as stuff is being slow down in an expanding radius and not instantaneusly, the latter being what would happen if it was infinite speed

then Adam snaps Zeus' neck and has a banter, and notice how stuff is still unmoving, if it was an infinite speed tecnique the it would the end of the effect would have been instantaneus, which as the third scan shows it wasn't

it litterally can't be just infinite speed

Comes from the personification of time, Chronos

Since when that implies time stop and not speed increase as the series blatantly show? (2)

Time =/= Speed

 

[Overlord775]

also the Adamas fight is VERY much important, as Adamas >>>> base in speed, as it actually menaged to hit Adam

 

[Tyri456]

Cool, you didn't adressed anything of what I said. I already explained how zeus ability work.

Adam eyes does not stop to work instantly, but gradually. That is Why zeus Was able to keep up with him until they stopped to work completely. Zeus wasn't faster at all.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that the arguments for time stop seem considerably more compelling.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

Let's just settle this with a simple majority vote because we're not getting anywhere, please.

 

[Overlord775]

it's affecting the area around it, so it's not time accell

except they'd have to do if you are arguing Zeus' punch is infinite speed.
The moment Zeus turned into Adamas he was able to draw blood from Adam, while he wasn't able to hit him with anything else prior, showing that he's much faster. Also Adam was still keeping up with Zeus even after his eyes broke.

 

[Tyri456]

That because Adam wasn't copying the ability properly because his eyes gradually stopped working during the fight, how the hell zeus was faster when people could see him better than before.

The eyses are not supposed to "fail" if zeus hit him is because they cannot work properly not because zeus was faster, that was obvious, sice the mangaka was showning the weakness of the eyes, and explained it 2 page after, the thing are 2 or you are not being honest with yourself or you can't comphrehend how the plot was going.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

That because Adam wasn't copying the ability properly because his eyes gradually stopped working during the fight, how the hell zeus was faster when people could see him better than before.

The eyses are not supposed to "fail" if zeus hit him is because they cannot work properly not because zeus was faster, that was obvious, sice the mangaka was showning the weakness of the eyes, and explained it 2 page after, the thing are 2 or you are not being honest with yourself or you can't comphrehend how the plot was going.

The eyes failed because Zeus' strikes ovewhelmed them. They were simply unable to keep up with Zeus in that form.

 

[Tyri456]

No.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

No.

Literally a scan showing that Adam is at his limit, overheating and bleeding while trying to keep up the Eyes of the Lord working against Zeus attack, until they later give out.

 

[Tyri456]

That is the point, Adam could have easily dodged and copied all of them if the eyes didn't had the weakness of overloading, adam eyes effectivness was slowly decreasing.
The eyes at full power without stamina problems would have stomped Zeus, that is not even funny.

So him being hit by zeus is not zeus being faster, but his eyes starting losing effectvness, as explained.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

But they were somehow able to copy a punch with supposedly infinite speed without breaking?

 

[Tyri456]

Do you know what overload mean?

Yes they were able because they were at full stamina, literally the weakness of the eyes is that the more you use them the more your nervous system get stressed, and lose efectivness.

If Adam was full of stamina consistently, he would have won easily.

the Advantage Zeus had was being able to constantly use his abilities and keep up the stamina, adam could easily do that at the start, but he can't do that for longer period of time.

His eyes are far superior to Zeus, ability wise, the problem is that they can't keep up over time their effectivness therefore leading adam to lose. Zeus wasn't going faster, it was Adam losing his eyes ability-

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

AP seems to make sense doe i do remember zeus was stated to rekt heaven in adamas form but eh.

Speed should probably be only for certain abilities as only Zeus's chrono punch and Adam's copy tbh.

Abilities does seem a bit weird yes. Adam could copy things like Zeus's punches but the overload will cause him to strain. A little tldr would help here.

 

[Axxtentacle]

But they were somehow able to copy a punch with supposedly infinite speed without breaking?

isn’t it implied that it wasn’t the dodging of a single strike that overloaded it, but dodging consistent strikes?

It seems to work like, say, a Mangekyo Sharingan (not eternal obviously) and will just be over-exerted if used consistently for a long enough period of time.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

Do you know what overload mean?

overload – load with too great a burden or cargo

Bryn says it herself, that "Adam, for this entire fight, has pushed those eyes to the limit" meaning the limit of what they can copy. If Adam was having an easy time copying Zeus' techniques, they wouldn't have eventually given out. The fact that they did shows that it takes Adam everything to copy them.

isn’t it implied that it wasn’t the thing of dodging a single strike that overloaded it, but dodging consistent strikes?

The only reason Zeus was able to overwhelm him with consistent strikes is because the strikes are very hard to dodge to begin with. They move at finite speed, though, so they should be infinitely easier to copy and dodge than something supposedly moving at infinite speed.

 

[Axxtentacle]

The only reason Zeus was able to overwhelm him with consistent strikes is because the strikes are very hard to dodge to begin with. They move at finite speed, though, so they should be infinitely easier to copy and dodge than something supposedly moving at infinite speed.

They’re blatantly not hard to dodge, as he dodges a vast majority of the strikes with barely any effort, so that statment is just null.

Zeus himself states that Adam wasn’t having any difficulty dealing with him, and that he “couldn’t win like this”.

Let me give a comparison to an MS again, for explanation’s sake.

Say, Naruto is constantly cloning himself and throwing Rasengans at Sasuke, Sasuke would obviously be able to dodge them, but over time his eyes would strain more and more due to having to keep up a level of strain on his eyes as the strikes could severely hurt him, eventually going blind in the same way that Adam did.

It’s not that the strikes were hard to dodge, it’s that keeping the ability up for long periods of time seems to be where it falters, as Bryn says Zeus realized Adam can only keep up the ability for so long, and decided to turn it into a fight of stamina.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

They’re blatantly not hard to dodge, as he dodges a vast majority of the strikes with barely any effort, so that statment is just null.

Zeus himself states that Adam wasn’t having any difficulty dealing with him, and that he “couldn’t win like this”.

Let me give a comparison to an MS again, for explanation’s sake.

Say, Naruto is constantly cloning himself and throwing Rasengans at Sasuke, Sasuke would obviously be able to dodge them, but over time his eyes would strain more and more due to having to keep up a level of strain on his eyes as the strikes could severely hurt him, eventually going blind in the same way that Adam did.

It’s not that the strikes were hard to dodge, it’s that keeping the ability up for long periods of time seems to be where it falters, as Bryn says Zeus realized Adam can only keep up the ability for so long, and decided to turn it into a fight of stamina.

He's literally bleeding from all over and sweaty af, he's obviously having a hard time even if he is successfully dodging the attacks.

What's happening is that the eyes are operating at their maximum capacity for extended periods of time, causing them to overheat. If they were simply operating for far longer than they are capable of, it wouldn't be overheating but over exhaustion that did them in.

 

[InfiniteDay]

It's called the Fist That Surpassed Time. Not because time was stopped, because it moved in 0 seconds, which surpasses conventional time. Everything is black because there moving in 0 seconds, thus time is not moving while they attack, because there moving so fast that time cannot actually convey anything. Yes, time is stopped, but the attack is time stop, it justs moves so fast that time cannot move forward in that timeframe.

 

[Overlord775]

rather of a name fallacy, also it's named that after the fact Zeus beat his father Chronus (Time)

also again, that neither would explainn why we see time gradually come to an halt and then return to normal

 

[Axxtentacle]

He's literally bleeding from all over and sweaty af, he's obviously having a hard time even if he is successfully dodging the attacks.

What's happening is that the eyes are operating at their maximum capacity for extended periods of time, causing them to overheat. If they were simply operating for far longer than they are capable of, it wouldn't be overheating but over exhaustion that did them in.

The quote you found says “the entire fight” which, well, is what I responded to. I’m not sure what quote you thought I had been responding to, but that’s the quote you used, which I responded to. He wasn’t bleeding literally at all until AFTER having to fight the Adamas Form for a few minutes straight, unless i’m misremembering the timeframe of the fight. I don’t recall any sweat, though it could just be because I haven’t reread the fight in a while.

Or, like I said, the ability itself could just have a limit on how long it can last under constant use, which is such as applicable as the other solution, given evidence.

Also, it’s obvious that RoR doesn’t just use the name/statements about moves to show us what the moves can do, as literally once Adamas Form comes out, his basic attacks are said to be “unavoidable one hit kills” which Adam then continues to tank dozens of later in the fight. It’s implied that he was alive when he grabbed Zeus by the head to start counter attacking again, since he was speaking, so that could be potentially hundreds of these “one hit kills” hitting him before he dies. My point is that statements about moves such as “exert control over all of time” aren’t stable and shouldn’t be used to apply abilities to characters.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Seems like the majority agrees with infinite speed

 

[Axxtentacle]

I’ll go through and count what people think so far, since nobody else seems to be doing it atm

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

U can count me for infinite speed

 

[Axxtentacle]

Already did, i’m only counting speed votes here, I’m not giving input to the other part.

As far as I can tell, it’s 4-4 right now based on who directly went against it and who directly went for it, including myself, of course.

I don’t know who not to count because some people are just like giving perspectives, and other vague statements/corrections that don’t really show what they’re agreeing with.

If some people would clarify what their votes are for, specifically for speed, please do.

3-5*, I counted Oppai then remembered it’s his CRT so his vote can’t be counted, I also didn’t notice InfiniteDay show up and comment.

The agreements for the downgrades for speed so far seem to be Antonio, Overlord, and the “The One you least excpet” guy. Nobody else seems to be directly against it.

For disagreements, it’s me, TOAAPRESENCE1, Life, InfiniteDay, Tyri. I could include TISS, but it’s not a direct “I disagree”.

I’d appreciate it if people would clarify if they agree/disagree with the infinite speed downgrade. Agreeing is saying you don’t think it’s infinite, and disagreeing is saying you think it’s infinite.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

I’m all time stop

 

[Axxtentacle]

yep, I counted you.

If I missed any direct votes please tell me as nobody else seems to be directly for or against it.

 

[Cyberblader90]

disagree with infinite speed

 

[Axxtentacle]

4 agrees for it being a time stop on speed

5 disagrees for it being a time stop

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

It's hard to decide, actually I would wonder about Matthew's opinion(If someone can tag, can they please?)
disagree with infinite speed

 

[Axxtentacle]

Oh, I didn’t notice TotalMasterInfinity.
that makes 5 agreements for it being a time stop,
and 6 disagreements for it being a time stop.

 

[InfiniteDay]

Agree with infinite speed, time was "stopped" because they were moving in 0 seconds, time moved forward after because the attack ended, and thus they are no longer moving in 0 seconds. There is nothing hard to understand here, no time stop was made, merely speed.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Agree with infinite speed, time was "stopped" because they were moving in 0 seconds, time moved forward after because the attack ended, and thus they are no longer moving in 0 seconds. There is nothing hard to understand here, no time stop was made, merely speed.

Yep, I included you in the vote count already. If you can maybe DM/ping people to read the thread and get their opinions, it’d be greatly appreciated.