Record of Ragnarok Downgrade

[azontr]

I do not care if it's a tournament if even the Gods flashbacks and greatest moments don't support planetary statements.

So basically your just going to ignore the fact that the story literally does not allow for people to go around destroying planets to substantiate your own point.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

do not care if it's a tournament if even the Gods flashbacks and greatest moments don't support planetary statements. And they arent even deciding the fate of planets at all, just humanity

....Okay, now you lost me

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

So basically your just going to ignore the fact that the story literally does not allow for people to go around destroying planets to substantiate your own point.

Why doesn't it allow? There is Titanomachia and different ways you can make fights and create flashbacks to double down. That's not accounting for the fact that you're under the assumption that it can't showcase planet level strength, when in reality there is nothing to showcase to begin with. Thor is simply unquantifiable higher than Lu Bu who is city level but still viewed him as a rival and went all out.

 

[azontr]

Why doesn't it allow? There is Titanomachia and different ways you can make fights and create flashbacks to double down. That's not accounting for the fact that you're under the assumption that it can't showcase planet level strength, when in reality there is nothing to showcase to begin with. Thor is simply unquantifiable higher than Lu Bu who is city level but still viewed him as a rival and went all out.

Dude you keep meatriding this idea that 7-B+ bullshit. If they displayed 5-B power in the arena it'd literally destroy the arena and kill all the humans in it. It's an enclosed area, of course they can't go around doing that.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Only 1 exists. The other is in reference to Zeus just being strong and I already debunked Shiva.

I do not care if it's a tournament if even the Gods flashbacks and greatest moments don't support planetary statements. And they arent even deciding the fate of planets at all, just humanity.

Heaven can very easily be called a planet but ok, and your Shiva debunks are basically just double dogging down on flowery language and acting like just because the literal setting doesn't allow him to planet bust, it means he can't.

What Azontr said.

Why doesn't it allow? There is Titanomachia and different ways you can make fights and create flashbacks to double down. That's not accounting for the fact that you're under the assumption that it can't showcase planet level strength, when in reality there is nothing to showcase to begin with. Thor is simply unquantifiable higher than Lu Bu who is city level but still viewed him as a rival and went all out.

Use your head, if someone went around planet busting there would be no Ragnarok or Record of Ragnarok, cause Earth would be ****** destroyed. And Azontr said it best for present.

 

[azontr]

I'm currently in the process of calling staff members here.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Dude you keep meatriding this idea that 7-B+ bullshit.

What?

If they displayed 5-B power in the arena it'd literally destroy the arena and kill all the humans in it. It's an enclosed area, of course they can't go around doing that.

Or they don't have any planet level strength. Their feats cap at city to island level with feats. 1 statement isn't enough considering the massive gap between tiers.

Heaven can very easily be called a planet but ok, and your Shiva debunks are basically just double dogging down on flowery language and acting like just because the literal setting doesn't allow him to planet bust, it means he can't.

What Azontr said.

No, it literally points out their lore gets contradicted. When Shiva combust, the world will turn to ash. Did it? No. Did Shiva turn to ash? No. So it's invalid. It's mythology after all.

Use your head, if someone went around planet busting there would be no Ragnarok or Record of Ragnarok, cause Earth would be ****** destroyed. And Azontr said it best for present.

Or simply they don't have planet level strength. No feats back it up. Country feats? Nope. Continental? Nope. If the author really cared about 5-B Ragnarok he would have made it far more clear. Especially if Thor supposedly fought the world serpent.

I'm currently in the process of calling staff members here.

Ok

 

[azontr]

What?

Figure of speech to say your continuously pushing for a 7-B+ rating.

Or they don't have any planet level strength. Their feats cap at city to island level with feats. 1 statement isn't enough considering the massive gap between tiers.

Or they do and your making unnecessary assumptions, like multiple people have been saying.

 

[azontr]

If the author really cared about 5-B Ragnarok he would have made it far more clear.

Dude legitimately wtf are you talking about. Why would the author care

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Figure of speech to say your continuously pushing for a 7-B+ rating.

Alright

Or they do and your making unnecessary assumptions, like multiple people have been saying.

I'm not making unnecessarily assumptions. Have the Gods created and destroyed planets on screen? No. Have they been showcased far weaker than planet level in their greatest moments? Yes.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Dude legitimately wtf are you talking about. Why would the author care

Why wouldn't he if he already throws in a supposed 5-B statement? Especially when other feats are of far lower level.

 

[azontr]

Are you insinuating the author actually gives a **** about whether or not his series is 5-B

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

I genuinely do not know or care myself. All I care about is that no feats back up the statement and so they should be considered an outlier until more clear statements or feats show up. I see absolutely no reason as to why RoR wouldn't be rated as "possibly 5-B" at absolute best.

 

[azontr]

Your copious obsession with feats that aren't required is infectious.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Your copious obsession with feats that aren't required is infectious.

You're obsessed with a single statement that has nothing backing it up. Cool, Mjolnir can shatter the earth in mythology, but his best feats and scaling isn't close to that even in his greatest moment. So a possibly works perfectly fine in this situation when previously tearing the seas and land was also hyped up. That's all.

 

[azontr]

And yet none of the statements have anything to contradict them(barring the Shiva stuff) beyond your hollow speculations of hyperbole, as illustrated multiple times in this same thread.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

And yet none of the statements have anything to contradict them(barring the Shiva stuff) beyond your hollow speculations of hyperbole, as illustrated multiple times in this same thread.

Don't need to be contradicted when nothing backs it up in the first place. It's just that, an outlier coming from an in-verse mythological statement about Thor. And it's not a specialation of them being hyperbole when nothing backs up the statements when at best you can really just say "They are God's so maybe they should be this level, even though they don't have the feats from their flashbacks and greatest moments." So yeah, possibly still work best in this situation.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Anyway, you said you're calling staff so I will let them decide.

 

[azontr]

Don't need to be contradicted when nothing backs it up in the first place. It's just that, an outlier coming from an in-verse mythological statement about Thor. And it's not a specialation of them being hyperbole when nothing backs up the statements when at best you can really just say "They are God's so maybe they should be this level, even though they don't have the feats from their flashbacks and greatest moments." So yeah, possibly still work best in this situation.

The statements don't require anything to back them up, that's not how statements work. They are what provides the rating in the first place, and since they have no contradictions, which you seem to have conceded by not arguing against that, they are more than useable.

 

[LordGinSama]

Also pretty sure you can get High 6-A for the likes of Zeus for being able to control all the bodies of water, probably High 6-A+ Thor's hammer for shaking the **** out of the stadium which we all know is massive as ****.


Also the counters against Shiva is bullshit. Saying "we didn't see it." is some serious conspiracy theorie, qanon bullshit. "We didn't see the moonlanding in person so it must be flowery language."

 

[Deceived3596]

If nothing directly contradicts the statement, then you can't assume the statement is hyperbolic tbh. At that point it seems like you're ignoring author intent and instead valuing fan calculations and personal feelings about the statements not being "satisfactory" enough.

I can possibly see a "At least 7-B, probably/likely 5-B" but that's about it, it's either that rating or a flat out 5-B rating imo.

 

[LordGinSama]

Thor literally killed a snake High 6-A in size and this guy keeps meatriding 7-B.

 

[azontr]

If nothing directly contradicts the statement, then you can't assume the statement is hyperbolic tbh. At that point it seems like you're ignoring author intent and instead valuing fan calculations and personal feelings about the statements not being "satisfactory" enough.

I can possibly see a "At least 7-B, probably/likely 5-B" but that's about it, it's either that rating or a flat out 5-B rating imo.

Literally just this. The statements have no contradictions which have not been debunked.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Also pretty sure you can get High 6-A for the likes of Zeus for being able to control all the bodies of water, probably High 6-A+ Thor's hammer for shaking the **** out of the stadium which we all know is massive as ****.

I'd be fine with that if those gets calced.

Also the counters against Shiva is bullshit. Saying "we didn't see it." is some serious conspiracy theorie, qanon bullshit. "We didn't see the moonlanding in person so it must be flowery language."

Except, no. Not even close to what you're implying. It's straight up a contradiction. Shiva existed after the world was created and we saw him as a kid. And when he combust and goes in Tandava the world will be destroyed. That's all we know. And did it happen? Nope.

 

[LordGinSama]

Shiva existed after the world was created and we saw him as a kid

Which means nothing, Shiva comes from a different mythology. I'm pretty sure the God's don't share the same planets all together.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Thor literally killed a snake High 6-A in size and this guy keeps meatriding 7-B.

Head canon. Did you see the snake in the manga? Please show it. Record of Ragnarok doesn't follow IRL mythology anyway besides having references to it. Also size =/= AP.

 

[azontr]

Shiva existed after the world was created and we saw him as a kid.

No, he did not. The place that Shiva lived in, like all Gods, is Heaven. There's nothing saying he existed on Earth when he and Rudra went on their journey.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Which means nothing, Shiva comes from a different mythology. I'm pretty sure the God's don't share the same planets all together.

Even if he comes from a different mythology is world destruction isn't shown in anyway. He doesn't even burn up himself. As for God's sharing the same planets, idk. Don't think it was ever clearly established. We just know there is 3 realms but the humanity they plan on destroying share the same planet.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

No, he did not. The place that Shiva lived in, like all Gods, is Heaven. There's nothing saying he existed on Earth when he and Rudra went on their journey.

They literally existed in the country side of India, that's all that was shown. But yes, since God's became distant from humanity they stopped living there after a while.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Also size =/= AP.

Ever hear of "Kinetic Energy" or "Gravitational Potential Energy"? Both are kind of important for size calcs and scale to AP and durability, the former is moving the ladder is just by existing.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

If nothing directly contradicts the statement, then you can't assume the statement is hyperbolic tbh. At that point it seems like you're ignoring author intent and instead valuing fan calculations and personal feelings about the statements not being "satisfactory" enough.

Ah, now the author intent matters. Not when God's will be downgraded, nah then I need to reconsider if the author really cares about planet level or not.

I can possibly see a "At least 7-B, probably/likely 5-B" but that's about it, it's either that rating or a flat out 5-B rating imo.

I already said I prefer a possibly for their 5-B ratings, yeah. At least until more statements and feats come along.

 

[azontr]

They literally existed in the country side of India, that's all that was shown. But yes, since God's became distant from humanity they stopped living there after a while.

Fair enough. I misremembered.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Ever hear of "Kinetic Energy" or "Gravitational Potential Energy"? Both are kind of important for size calcs and scale to AP and durability, the former is moving the ladder is just by existing.

Bluntly put, if our snake was the size of multiple continents by god he's gonna be at minimum 6-A and probably High 6-A! All we need is an off-hand statement of size and ****** voila!

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Ever hear of "Kinetic Energy" or "Gravitational Potential Energy"? Both are kind of important for size calcs and scale to AP and durability, the former is moving the ladder is just by existing.

And we know nothing about the snake to begin with. There is no, absolutely none, assumptions we can make about it. Also, is it even 5-B? Last time someone mentioned it being High 6-A

 

[LordGinSama]

Head canon.

You claiming headcanon = You being blatantly ignorant.

Did you see the snake in the manga? Please show it. Record of Ragnarok doesn't follow IRL mythology anyway besides having references to it. Also size =/= AP.

Read it and weep bitch. And also no, size alone would yield High 6-A results.

 

[Deceived3596]

Ah, now the author intent matters

It always matters, especially since we're talking about scaling verses which are created by said authors. So they'd have the most intimate knowledge about the piece of fiction they're creating.

Not when God's will be downgraded

Idk what this is or what is has to do with my comment ngl.

nah then I need to reconsider if the author really cares about planet level or not

He does if he consistently says these characters can create and destroy planets, and if Thor actually did destroy a High 6-A size'd snake than that's even more credence to that line of logic.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

You claiming headcanon = You being blatantly ignorant.

Don't see how when we know nothing about it.

Read it and weep bitch. And also no, size alone would yield High 6-A results.

Already have it in the OP, don't care about it since it's not backing up 5-B statements.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

It always matters, especially since we're talking about scaling verses which are created by said authors. So they'd have the most intimate knowledge about the piece of fiction they're creating.

Well, most likely. Of course authors intent didn't matter when I said if he cared about doubling down on characters being 5-B. He mostly certainly could have but didn't.

Idk what this is or what is has to do with my comment ngl.

Yeah I was referencing earlier so don't worry too much about that part ig

He does if he consistently says these characters can create and destroy planets, and if Thor actually did destroy a High 6-A size'd snake than that's even more credence to that line of logic.

"Constantly" not really, no. Only 1, maybe 2 with a push if we count Adam's Zeus, statements exist regarding 5-B. All we know that God's constantly fight thunderstorm creators and other gods who can split seas and land. It seems its more constantly getting pushed for continental to multi-continental if we are generous and would still fall in line with statements such as "shatter the earth" or destroy heaven when they arent quantifiable. So yeah, still leaning towards "possibly" ratings for Gods regarding 5-B stuff. Pretty sure verses have done that in the past with far clearer statements and showings.

 

[PowerToScale]

It is. Your argument is that Volundrs allow humans to damage planetary gods yet there is no evidence that the same volundrs are planetary.

No, my argument is that your understanding of how Volund works is wrong. IDC what you scale it as, I already made my point about the scaling my first post which was liked. After that it was correcting you on your understanding of Volund.

Volundr functions by linking 2 people, be it human and a valkyrie or 2 gods (Buddha or Zerofuku). The only real argument you can make for them achieving the perfect power or fusion or whatever. E.g combining both the power of a human and power of a valkyrie + its divinity.

It’s not the only argument. Funny thing is that they do perfectly fuse, they literally have to match wavelengths or they won’t be able to fuse.

Ah yes, except for when they do damage Gods like Thor. We only know Gods are incredibly powerful, not powerful enough to view all of them as fodder. Even Thor himself considered Lu Bu a rival because of his strength.

That’s because they’re strengths are increased because of Volund, that is why they damage gods. Yeah, the same Lu Bu who had a Volund, a stronger and more durable weapon than normal, which is clearly shown in the series. This is literally shown in the series, Jack's fight displays it the best, turning a regular pebble into a Volund and it being strong and durable enough to crater a building, the argument of "Volund doe not amp" is wrong.

Zeus blood comes from a divine source, so it must give divinity unless there is a statement that it lost it. And what stick and rock are you referencing? And why couldn't it gain its divinity through touching something?

Zeus blood grants a “true Hero” godly strength to the person who drinks it no divinity. The stick/club he jabbed into the ground and had a rock attached to it. Because that’s not his ability, we have a person with that ability and its Jack.

Or better yet, why couldn't strong feats be performed by a divine being using a normal weapon? And even then, I guess Gods are extreme fodder and not planetary if they get damaged by a rock.

Damn, its almost like I was saying that the entire time. That the gods have been damaged by non “divine” weapons because their opponent’s strength and no because of “divinity”. Damn they must be fodder, imagine getting hurt by a rock which hit you with strength beyond human capabilities, its crazy how that works.

Then he shouldn't be able to copy the speed of techniques if he can't copy the strength since both are physical prowess.

He copies also the physical prowess or else he couldn't have copied the speed. Techniques themselves are just that, martial arts moves called divine because they are from a god.

So, fodder Gods being harmed by regular humans? Aight, sounds about right and that they have been underestimating them.

We never see the method of how he destroyed it. But Ig the gates are fodder. Unless you have scans for that.

Buddha lollipops after all. But IG then Gods are fodder if their statements don't align with feats, or merely scale to casual Buddha.

Adam copies the technique not the strength and speed. At the end we see that Adam while blind is still fast enough to grab Zeus and strong enough to hold him in hold. A continued to damage him while blind. By your logic Adam would be too slow to grab him and too weak to hold and damage, which isn’t the case. Adam’s strength is not copy-based its only techniques he copies.

Yes, lower tier/fodder gods, who as re still beings stronger than most of humanity are defeated by the most exceptional of humans that exist. But yeah, there are some super strong humans like Qin, Lu Bu and Adam who can harms gods without the use of a Volund. Although still weaker need them for the rag gods.

I guess a lollipop handle/stick is “divine”. But yeah, its almost like a genre of manga that limits it settings kinda can’t have people displaying their best destructive capacities, so relies on giving statements to portray their characters levels.

They are much more powerful yet have no feats. Literally the only statement is shattering the earth in an unknown way which you can technically be continental, multi-continental or moon level. If divine is truly flowery language then Gods are simply still fodder because they have 0 good feats to back up even 1 Planetary statement.

With no feats to back them up? Yeah, no. At best they deserve unknown or "at least". There is only 1 semi-valid statement after all and to scale the entire verse with feats that don't even reach island level besides maybe the creation of a storm is outlier as hell.

I do not care if it's a tournament if even the Gods flashbacks and greatest moments don't support planetary statements. And they arent even deciding the fate of planets at all, just humanity.

Its almost like the constant need for a displaying such level feats of destructive capacity destructive capacity because ethe authors have limited themselves into a setting that is not suitable for it and use the statements to convey their strengths, while also using the backstories as ways to engage an audience with a character instead of just blowing up shit so that manga wouldn’t be bland and have actual substance. You also forget about difference destructive capacity and attack potency, where a character can be a certain level without the need of them displaying feats on that level.

So, then they are just weak and get damaged by flying rocks. Ok.

Almost like there’s a difference between being hit with a rock by a normal human and being hit by a rock by someone who can output star level forces. (The star level is an example, don’t take seriously since I feel like you’d think I’m saying their star level).

He just calls humans strong. He admits humans are strong, not only the humans that they have fought. And if volund increases the strength then it's simply "at least" from their current showings.

My guy, I’m sure you can understand who he is referring to when he says “humans are strong”. Surely, it’s the humans who have fought and had their strengths increased, rather than the Billions of REGULAR humans in the stand and throughout history that did nothing. If not, yikes.

The entire argument for planetary level RoR is a single myth statement from Thor. Nothing else works, not even close. Zeus is just praised for being strong by Shiva, flowery in the end. Since he has not showcased planetary feats or range. Then Shiva is already addressed and his planetary statements makes the least amount of sense. And lastly Hajun, who's Helheim destruction shows buildings being destroyed, not the planet or the realm. Even going as far as Hades saying Helheim was rebuilt with building in the background. So yeah, even if I concede the divine argument you have 0 feats to back up a single planetary statement from a myth about Thor. If Planetary was truly intended then the author could have expressed it through Jormungandr yet opted for defending weak Gods hiding behind brick walls from titans.

So, in conclusion Record of Ragnarok Gods are extremely weak and have no showings of planet level destruction or creation, even if we take them literally we don't know the context or the method. Even when being serious and stating they aren't holding back + fighting for their lives and honor, they do not destroy anything much and even in flashbacks when author could show planetary destruction or feats, he doesn't. Opting for more grounded feats and fights.

Addressed this before and so have others.

______________________________________________
To break things down for you. Not every verse is going to give you feats, in those cases we look for other methods to scale such as statements. There is nothing wrong with that, when looking at these statements we also look at the setting of the verse, how its structured, what has the author written and if their are any contradictions. As many people known, tournament manga are notorious for providing statements for characters but nothing showing feats because the authors back themselves into a corner were they can't.

A statement with zero fan calc feats doesn't make the statement invalid. Sometimes statements is all we have and have to deal with it. The games the game.

 

[PowerToScale]

**** all this for mostly explaining how Volund works. I guess we wait for staff opinion