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Record of Ragnarok Downgrade

Aseka said:
Thor said he can shatter the earth, but in his flashback, never of it has been showed. Shattering the earth can meant many things just like OP said.
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Shattering the Earth can only mean one thing, to shatter something only has one obvious definition.


The argument of it being flowery language is also blatant bullshit, you need to prove that they're flowery language rather than basing your argument on sheer disbelief. Greek mythology is directly stated to be canon by Zeus, outside of the misconception of Thor's Gloves. I can assure you, you can get the verse to scale much higher.



As for Shiva it's a similar case because I'm pretty sure the RAW scans for his dance states it's the universe instead of planet which would be consistent with his own mythology.
 
LordGinSama said:
Shattering the Earth can only mean one thing, to shatter something only has one obvious definition.


The argument of it being flowery language is also blatant bullshit, you need to prove that they're flowery language rather than basing your argument on sheer disbelief. Greek mythology is directly stated to be canon by Zeus, outside of the misconception of Thor's Gloves. I can assure you, you can get the verse to scale much higher.



As for Shiva it's a similar case because I'm pretty sure the RAW scans for his dance states it's the universe instead of planet which would be consistent with his own mythology.
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We weren't allowed to scale anything to their mythological origins to begin with. So this argument your using is invalid if you're referring to outside sources to back it up.
 
Robo said:
thats why mythology sun wukong isn't on vsbw profile
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vsbattles.fandom.com

Sun Wukong (Journey to the West)

Sun Wukong was born from a magical stone formed from chaos. Upon hatching into the world he lived most of his life on The Mountain of Flowers and Fruit. There he joined and lived with a large group of monkeys eventually discovering a secret cave that the monkeys could use as their new home. The...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
You can not directly scale an interpretation of a mythological character to the source material, this is true (A major example would be Fate).

But, some of these statements do seem straightforward, and lacking feats isn't always a death sentence if the statements are literal and meant to actually be taken at face value, feats help, but it's not like it's 100% always required (See, uh, like all of ******* Pokemon or Monster Hunter and how most of those verses are done via wacky dex entries or guide statements).
The statements require feats to corroborate them once they start being blatantly contradicted. In which case, if it isn't blatantly proven to be bullshit, it should be ok.
 
Chariot190 said:
You can not directly scale an interpretation of a mythological character to the source material, this is true.

But, some of these statements do seem straightforward, and lacking feats isn't always a death sentence if the statements are literal and meant to actually be taken at face value, feats help, but it's not like it's 100% always required (See, uh, like all of ******* Pokemon or Monster Hunter and how most of those verses are done via wacky dex entries or guide statements).
The statements require feats to corroborate them once they start being blatantly contradicted. In which case, if it isn't blatantly proven to be bullshit, it should be ok.
Click to expand...
Eh fair enough.
 
LordGinSama said:
Shattering the Earth can only mean one thing, to shatter something only has one obvious definition.


The argument of it being flowery language is also blatant bullshit, you need to prove that they're flowery language rather than basing your argument on sheer disbelief. Greek mythology is directly stated to be canon by Zeus, outside of the misconception of Thor's Gloves. I can assure you, you can get the verse to scale much higher.



As for Shiva it's a similar case because I'm pretty sure the RAW scans for his dance states it's the universe instead of planet which would be consistent with his own mythology.
Click to expand...
We weren't allowed to scale to the myth or other source like the Bible. Just like Fiamma whom in the narration of the novel said he can create all miracle in Christianity, as he wield the power of the Son of God. But this is not allowed and just they just add some miracle that mentioned in the novel. Not outside of it.
 
ssgengar said:
I get what you’re saying but idk about the 1st quote being hyperbolic, it’s actually pretty straight forward
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The same quote is also the same which has Thor's gauntlet saying it's to protect Thor from Mjolnir yet that turned out to be false. Why wouldn't the planetary statement be when Thor's best scaling is from Lu Bu who is City level+ and in his prime?
ssgengar said:
as for the feats not lining up with the flowery language, it honestly seems like it’s just the narrator’s way of clarifying their godly power rather than straight up showing planet busting, as that would break the series bc remember this is still a tournament setting
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Most of the "planetary statements" aren't clear cut and even comes from hyping up characters. The only actually narrative statement is Thor cracking the earth, but it's a myth within the series telling of how supposedly great Thor is while going all out against Lu Bu. Otherwise all other statements are from characters so if we really going that route then Shiva is 9-B for being compared to a cannon ball.
ssgengar said:
like I agree the heavens statement is hyperbolic, but no one not even city level is expected to do that. Not saying it’s proof for planetary I just think there’s also a problem with the rating you’re trying to replace it with, because it’s still a statement that supports a level far higher than what you’re proposing regardless of how hyperbolic it seems
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Then, what is it besides a big amp? Island? Country? Continental? We don't know besides the form channeling precise Zeus attacks and making him "unavoidable".
ssgengar said:
I agree with the shiva stuff, even if he had those abilities there isn’t enough context to say they weren’t done over time
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Fr
ssgengar said:
I also agree with the hajun stuff, but one question I have is hajun’s form in the flashback, is that inferior or superior to his current form?
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Inferior. Current Hajun said he won't make the same mistake with his past self...exploding? I think. Probably the only difference is Hajun being able to control his power, at least thats the context behind it.
ssgengar said:
Ultimately I’m sort of neutral for now since my knowledge on the verse is limited, most of these statements are vague and aren’t backed by feats but like it’s been said before planet busting in a tournament doesn’t make sense, so the author makes an effort to convey their god status through statements instead

also I saw you or someone else mention other flashbacks, i haven’t seen those so keep that in mind
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It's not even that, their opponents are humans who are at best City Level+ and they have to go all out. Even Zeus himself admitting they are strong with the feats showcased. (BTW all the humans are actually in their prime, such as Lu Bu himself and his Sky Eater)
Arkenis said:
Also things not happening is not a qualifier.

Edit: A manga centered around mythological gods, with statements of them creating and being able to destroy the world. Seems simple, seems logical, sounds accurate. Should stay 5-b
Click to expand...
They aren't even close to being 5-B with any of the feats, they actually don't have any. All we have is them admitting humans like Lu Bu who perform City Level+ feats are supposed to be strong.
azontr said:
Can we please stop operating under the assumption that a lack of feats makes any statement flowery? The statements aren't flowery, their straightforward, I don't understand how them "having no feats to back them up" is a detriment to their validity other than the fact that the author can't have characters blowing up the entire arena whenever they attack.
Click to expand...
Shiva's statement is the very definition of being flowery. Also, feats are the exact thing to back up the validity. Just because they are based on mythology doesn't mean they are 1 to 1.
1. Thor the planet buster goes all out against a 7-B+ Lu Bu
2. Shiva merely comments how Zeus has become really strong. He doesn't say Zeus will/can destroy the heaven but rather "Don't got destroying it" which in the context just means he has become really powerful.
3. Shiva the world creator was born after the world was created and his punches are compared to cannon balls. Even his Tandava form didn't fulfill the myth of him burning the world to ash or even himself lmao
4. Hajun doesn't even have any planetary statements, just city and landscape wiping.

So yes, they either need feats to back up the vague statements or they simply cap against opponents with actual feats.
azontr said:
We don't need a calc, you goober. We can use these statements to find a concrete rating. Countless verses utilize this method.

The only thing in this thread I can really agree with is the Shiva thing being sus, but otherwise, it's mostly just nitpicking very blatant 5-B statements.
Click to expand...
"Very blatant" when these planet busters go all out against 7-B's.
Livinmeme said:
The entire premise is flowery
Bottom Text
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And contradictory to actual feats of them going all out.
Livinmeme said:
Yeah what the hell is the obession with low balling everything and then taking it as true?
A character says that he can shatter the earth "oh actually he could just broke the earth crust". No evidence, and is assuming things for no real reason other than low balling.
Anyway i disagree with it
Click to expand...
"Whats up with the obsession with highballing and only choosing statements when there are feats contradicting them." It wasn't even Thor himself who said that, it's already just a myth foretold in tales but has nothing backing them up.
LordGinSama said:
Shattering the Earth can only mean one thing, to shatter something only has one obvious definition.


The argument of it being flowery language is also blatant bullshit, you need to prove that they're flowery language rather than basing your argument on sheer disbelief. Greek mythology is directly stated to be canon by Zeus, outside of the misconception of Thor's Gloves. I can assure you, you can get the verse to scale much higher.



As for Shiva it's a similar case because I'm pretty sure the RAW scans for his dance states it's the universe instead of planet which would be consistent with his own mythology.
Click to expand...
You can shatter the earth while being far weaker and ultimately end it after hundreds of blows. Yet that's only how Thor is described, not how he actually is when going all out against a 7-B.

We only know the verse is based on IRL Greek mythology. But from designs alone we know they ain't 1 to 1. What's more, there is supposedly every God from every religion/mythology so to say Greek mythology would be 1 to 1 compared to our IRL one, is also false. We don't even know how their world came to be. You say they could be much higher, yet there are no feats for that, or even statements for higher than 5-B if you use the highballed interpretation.

Also, I do not care if Shiva's statement makes his flowery statement universal. Did it destroy the earth/universe as it was supposed to? No. So it debunks itself literally moments later. Couldn't even turn Shiva to ash and give his arms back lmao

Chariot190 said:
You can not directly scale an interpretation of a mythological character to the source material, this is true (A major example would be Fate).

But, some of these statements do seem straightforward, and lacking feats isn't always a death sentence if the statements are literal and meant to actually be taken at face value, feats help, but it's not like it's 100% always required (See, uh, like all of ******* Pokemon or Monster Hunter and how most of those verses are done via wacky dex entries or guide statements).
The statements require feats to corroborate them once they start being blatantly contradicted. In which case, if it isn't blatantly proven to be bullshit, it should be ok.
Click to expand...
Thor went all out against Lu Bu who is 7-B. That's a blatant contradiction. These planet busters admit humans are strong who have no feats to back them up that high of a strength. So, simply put, Thor's Planet shattering statement is actually contradicted by the fight and the context while everything else is vague from the guy hyping up the fighters. We don't even have the Titanomachia flashback where they destroy planets. It would help but sadly the author didn't use this opportunity.

Also, for some reason people trying to scale Gods to their mythological counter parts was attempted when the same guys hide behind brick walls trying no to get eaten by Titans AOT style. The very fact that so many mythologies exist in the same world is a massive contradiction to our IRL myths.
 
StorytellingDemonKing said:
Thor went all out against Lu Bu who is 7-B. That's a blatant contradiction. These planet busters admit humans are strong who have no feats to back them up that high of a strength. So, simply put, Thor's Planet shattering statement is actually contradicted by the fight and the context while everything else is vague from the guy hyping up the fighters. We don't even have the Titanomachia flashback where they destroy planets. It would help but sadly the author didn't use this opportunity.

Also, for some reason people trying to scale Gods to their mythological counter parts was attempted when the same guys hide behind brick walls trying no to get eaten by Titans AOT style. The very fact that so many mythologies exist in the same world is a massive contradiction to our IRL myths.
Click to expand...
I'm not arguing this, I was speaking in general. Whether or not such things exist is for you to argue with others, not me.
 
Only responding to what has been directed to me.
StorytellingDemonKing said:
Shiva's statement is the very definition of being flowery. Also, feats are the exact thing to back up the validity. Just because they are based on mythology doesn't mean they are 1 to 1.
1. Thor the planet buster goes all out against a 7-B+ Lu Bu
2. Shiva merely comments how Zeus has become really strong. He doesn't say Zeus will/can destroy the heaven but rather "Don't got destroying it" which in the context just means he has become really powerful.
3. Shiva the world creator was born after the world was created and his punches are compared to cannon balls. Even his Tandava form didn't fulfill the myth of him burning the world to ash or even himself lmao
4. Hajun doesn't even have any planetary statements, just city and landscape wiping.

So yes, they either need feats to back up the vague statements or they simply cap against opponents with actual feats.
Click to expand...
Dude, maybe, JUST MAYBE, Lu Bu scales to Thor's 5-B with Volund. Just maybe. Just maybe, Thor went all out because Lu Bu is also 5-B. And I never said they were based on myth. I said they were blatantly 5-B, nothing to do with their connection to myth.

And dude I agree that the Shiva shit is vague, I said as such already. I also don't remember enough to comment on any of Hajun's potential scaling.
 
azontr said:
Only responding to what has been directed to me.

Dude, maybe, JUST MAYBE, Lu Bu scales to Thor's 5-B with Volund. Just maybe. Just maybe, Thor went all out because Lu Bu is also 5-B. And I never said they were based on myth. I said they were blatantly 5-B, nothing to do with their connection to myth.

And dude I agree that the Shiva shit is vague, I said as such already. I also don't remember enough to comment on any of Hajun's potential scaling.
Click to expand...
In the context of their final clash, it was mjolnir against sky eater, and sky eater technique is 7-B+. Also, there are actual statements of Lu Bu matching Thor's POWER. Not even necessarily the volundr. Even if Volundr's allow the humans to damage Gods, they don't allow them to exert the same force on their own or there would be no real worries about Lu Bu clashing with Thor. So yeah. Can't give credit to volundry when humans themselves are admitted by the likes of Zeus to be strong. Only special thing about Volundrs are their divinity but in the end it means nothing when they also don't have any feats.

Also, I just listed the planetary statements. 1 is a myth about Thor which would be contradicted by his scaling to Lu Bu and everything else is vague and hype statements.
 
StorytellingDemonKing said:
In the context of their final clash, it was mjolnir against sky eater, and sky eater technique is 7-B+. Also, there are actual statements of Lu Bu matching Thor's POWER. Not even necessarily the volundr. Even if Volundr's allow the humans to damage Gods, they don't allow them to exert the same force on their own or there would be no real worries about Lu Bu clashing with Thor. So yeah. Can't give credit to volundry when humans themselves are admitted by the likes of Zeus to be strong. Only special thing about Volundrs are their divinity but in the end it means nothing when they also don't have any feats.

Also, I just listed the planetary statements. 1 is a myth about Thor which would be contradicted by his scaling to Lu Bu and everything else is vague and hype statements.
Click to expand...
You're assuming that Sky Eater's strength remains stagnant to 7-B+ when we have literally no reason to assume that, dude?

Also, yes, Volunds increase strength, I don't know where your getting Lu Bu is strong enough without his Volund to damage Thor. That's how we currently list it on our profiles.
 
azontr said:
You're assuming that Sky Eater's strength remains stagnant to 7-B+ when we have literally no reason to assume that, dude?
Click to expand...
Hmm yes, Lu Bu is in his prime and yet we should assume he becomes plantery just because. Even tho a great deal is made about humans being in their prime and showing flashbacks to their 7-B feats.
azontr said:
Also, yes, Volunds increase strength, I don't know where your getting Lu Bu is strong enough without his Volund to damage Thor. That's how we currently list it on our profiles.
Click to expand...
Gods have invulnerability to things that arent divine. Volundrs allow you to bypass that invulnerability. That is all. There is no statement of them increasing strength.
 
StorytellingDemonKing said:
Hmm yes, Lu Bu is in his prime and yet we should assume he becomes plantery just because. Even tho a great deal is made about humans being in their prime and showing flashbacks to their 7-B feats.
Click to expand...
Yeah, maybe because the Volunds increase their strength.
StorytellingDemonKing said:
Gods have invulnerability to things that arent divine. Volundrs allow you to bypass that invulnerability. That is all. There is no statement of them increasing strength.
Click to expand...
It does not have to be stated for us to make a logical assumption that Volunds increase their user's strength, instead of assuming this is some miraculous contradiction to scaling. We have a logical explanation, so we should use it.
 
azontr said:
Yeah, maybe because the Volunds increase their strength.
Click to expand...
No such statement.
azontr said:
It does not have to be stated for us to make a logical assumption that Volunds increase their user's strength, instead of assuming this is some miraculous contradiction to scaling. We have a logical explanation, so we should use it.
Click to expand...
The logical explanation is volundrs bypassing Gods invulnerability because they are also divine. Humans get praised for being strong themselves who perform 7-B feats. Great deal was made about Lu Bu being the strongest human and because of that he matched Thor.
 
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