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Record of Ragnarok Downgrade

StorytellingDemonKing

StorytellingDemonKing

God Universes
He/Him
2,033
2,245
In this CRT I want to discuss the current ratings of Record of Ragnarok characters. Mostly their 5-B ratings. I will try to go through the statements in order.

Mjolnir can shatter the earth and Thor can tear apart the land and the seas.

In Thor's fight against Lu Bu, it is stated that Mjolnir can shatter the earth. There are 2 main problems I have with this statement.
  1. It's a hyperbole
  2. Even if it's literal, it's too vague.
This statement, is most likely a hyperbole. The simplest problem with this, is that the feats do not line up. This supposed "earth shattering" hammer has not demonstrated such power and Thor's best scaling comes from being superior to Lu Bu, who was in his prime in their fight, and his absolute best feat is this. Thor even goes as far as to use awakened thunder hammer, a technique saved only for worthy people, such as Lu Bu. Of course, it did shatter Lu Bu's legs, but it didn't leave him as a blood splatter instantly. What's more, Thor and Lu Bu BOTH went all out in their final clash. The NARRATOR even tells us its the most magnificent clash for both of them in their entire life. The other problem is that the statement is simply too vague. Shattering the earth can mean many things. Same goes for Thor's statement of tearing up the lands and the seas. Not only is it extremely vague but likely even a hyperbole. Seas have many different sizes but you most certainly don't need planetary AP or energy to tear them up. And as always, land can mean many different things. From city sized, to mountain, to islands and even countries. Even with the highest interpretation this should be Multi-Continental at best. But again, too vague for even that. And of course it's from Heimdall, the guy meant to hype up the characters and the fights. There is also the whole "Thor fought Jormungandr" but we literally know nothing about him or how the fight played out. So yeah, it would be more accurate to simply scale both Lu Bu and Thor to Small City level+

Zeus destroying the heaven

When Zeus went in his Adamas form, Shiva says "Don't go destroying heaven now, y'hear." It basically has the same problem as Thor's statement. It's extremely vague and a hyperbole.
For starters, there are many ways you can destroy something. Even overtime. Secondly, Shiva could very well be exaggerating and saying he has become really strong. What's more, Zeus simply has no feats on Planet level scale. Best we really have is scaling him above Thor, who is Small City level+ scaling from Lu Bu. This would be because Zeus is acknowledged as being one of the strongest, if not the strongest, Gods and won the Titanomachy Tournament. (Unless he has some feats in the background I missed)

Shiva the destroyer and creator of worlds

Next up, Shiva. When he was going to fight, and entered the arena, Heimdall hyped him up. He said Shiva created the world on a whim and can destroy it. As always, we never see it happen. First to address the "creation" part. We know that Shiva existed after the world was already created since he was shown as a kid and long time ago he was virtually unknown. So to think that Shiva created the world is to think that the same creator is unknown and was born after it's creation lol. Not only is it extremely unlikely this would be the case, he never showed the ability to create it. What's more, even if we take this literally then this would simply be creation and there is no reason to scale it to his AP. Could be hax or could be over an extremely long period, we don't know.

Then, what about destruction? Well...he has no feats on such a level. One of his greatest fights was against Rudre and when they went all out, all they could do is send the sounds of their clashes through out the region, and it was mentioned that their sweats became the rain, which simply isn't true if you read the fight. Not only that, you can destroy something over time or with hax. We simply don't know so it's unquantifiable even if assumed to be true.

What about the title of "Destroyer of Worlds"? Well, it's just that, a title. So it means nothing.

Last, I want to talk about Shiva's "Tandava Karma". This is his ultimate technique where he combusts his own body and starts to become extremely hot and produce flames that can scorch and melt the opponents body. It is described as following:
"When the time is fulfilled... Lord Shiva will dance the Tandava, and bring about the destruction of the world, then Shiva will burn his own body and recreate the world from it's own ashes"

The simplest way to debunk this, is to just read the manga and realize nothing what was said happened. Shiva activated Tandava Karma and started to combust. Did the world get destroyed? No. Did the world get recreated from ash? No. Hell, Shiva himself didn't even burn to ash since we saw him go back to the entrance. So, it's just flowery language and got contradicted literally moments later.

Hajun destroying half of Helheim

In round 6 when Buddha fought Zerofuku, something happened. Hajun emerged. In the tales of Helheim and their inhabitants there was a monster long ago. It's name was Hajun. In the stories passed down, it is said that Hajun destroyed half of Helheim. The problem with this, is that it doesn't indicate that half of the planet or even the realm was destroyed. Since moments later it is verbatim stated that Helheim was rebuilt. And in the context of both destroying and rebuilding Helheim, buildings are shown. So, the simplest answer to this statement would be that Hajun destroyed cities and landscapes. Not the planet or even the realm. Which isn't surprising since none of the feats from Hajun are Planet level.

Conclusion

Record of Ragnarok is filled with flowery language, hyperboles and simply has no feats to back up Planetary levels of power. Not only that, the statements themselves are extremely vague where besides Planet interpretations, one could just as well come to the conclusion of them being far lower ranging from city to mountain to island levels and etc.

But, where should they scale? Well, simply to feats that they actually perform. Like Lu Bu's sky eater which is currently rated as Small City level+, possibly calculating Hajun's clouds and etc. There is probably more feats but those are the only ones that come to my mind on the spot.
 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
RoR really need downgrades and new calcs. No way that everyone is as strong as Thor or that Hercules is as strong as Zeus. But the logic of "It's flowery language" doesn't fit well.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's a bad argument when the feats don't back them up and a lot of it references the myth about God's but doesn't showcase it. Like in Shivas case. But yeah, more calc do be needed and hopefully they can be found.
 
StorytellingDemonKing said:
I don't think it's a bad argument when the feats don't back them up and a lot of it references the myth about God's but doesn't showcase it. Like in Shivas case. But yeah, more calc do be needed and hopefully they can be found.
Click to expand...
Most of the feats are limited by being inside an arena (Which is probably 500 kilometers in diameter if we consider the context of all of human history being inside the arena). The fact that they do not break planets at every instant is not proof that it is flowery language
StorytellingDemonKing said:
And of course it's from Heimdall, the guy meant to hype up the characters and the fights
Click to expand...
Besides, wasn't Heimdall who said that Thor could destroy the earth, It was the manga narrator
 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
Most of the feats are limited by being inside an arena (Which is probably 500 kilometers in diameter if we consider the context of all of human history being inside the arena). The fact that they do not break planets at every instant is not proof that it is flowery language
Click to expand...
Yet it never happens in their flashbacks either. There is not one planetary feat showcased in the series, or even close to it.
LIFE_OF_KING said:
Besides, wasn't Heimdall who said that Thor could destroy the earth, It was the manga narrator
Click to expand...
When Thor was entering the arena it was Heimdall. Also, it's never says Thor can destroy the earth. And his feats do not line up to that.
 
One thing I will mention is that they can't demonstrate their full capabilities in the tournament is because of how the manga is set up, its stupid yes and you can blame the authors for making that way, but them showing their fullest strengths in a destructive manner kills the series. One strike and boom everything and everyone around them dies, audience and environment gone and isn't plausible for it to be a tournament manga anymore. one way around this showing it in their backstories, but as shown in their backstories they're not about their strongest moments but their most famous and intimate moments.

The statements are the authors way of saying how characters are as they can't probably showcase them within the settings they created. This is why series like Record of Ragnarok, Tales of Destruction, Majo Taisen pride themselves on their statements. All the series take place in a arena yet all of them have characters with direct statements of being able to destroy the planet or threaten the cosmos or some other high tier feat for them, yet the best shown is cracking the ground in their fights in a small arena.

Also going by feats breaks down narratively as Lu Bu has the strongest feat, who is human, while all the rag gods are >>>>>> above humans in strength, yet the best they do is crack the arena a little. Going feat wise would have everyone as tiered unknown except Lu Bu.

Its a sad truth when it comes to primarily focused tournament manga's, with the situation for them being
Primary source of scale = Statesments made directly by the authors or through their characters
Secondary source of scale = Feats done and if they match to statements
 
PowerToScale said:
One thing I will mention is that they can't demonstrate their full capabilities in the tournament is because of how the manga is set up, its stupid yes and you can blame the authors for making that way, but them showing their fullest strengths in a destructive manner kills the series. One strike and boom everything and everyone around them dies, audience and environment gone and isn't plausible for it to be a tournament manga anymore. one way around this showing it in their backstories, but as shown in their backstories they're not about their strongest moments but their most famous and intimate moments.
Click to expand...
There is absolutely no reason the author couldn't showcase it in their flashbacks. In fact, in them, when characters are stated to go all out, like Shiva, their punches are not close to what their statements are. In those moments, statements such as "the sound of their fists could be heard throughout India" are impressive. Or defeating storm gods who are implied to create giant storms are impressive.
PowerToScale said:
The statements are the authors way of saying how characters are as they can't probably showcase them within the settings they created. This is why series like Record of Ragnarok, Tales of Destruction, Majo Taisen pride themselves on their statements. All the series take place in a arena yet all of them have characters with direct statements of being able to destroy the planet or threaten the cosmos or some other high tier feat for them, yet the best shown is cracking the ground in their fights in a small arena.
Click to expand...
And yet they are extremely vague in it of themselves. Maybe in the future were we see stuff like Titanomachia there might be more feats, but so far nothing. However to rely only on statements as expressions of how strong the characters are also isn't a great idea when there are instances of Shiva being compared to canon balls and certainly falls in line with his showings. There are even characters like Hajun who is one of the strongest so far and has no reason to hold back even if its a tournament and he's scared.
PowerToScale said:
Also going by feats breaks down narratively as Lu Bu has the strongest feat, who is human, while all the rag gods are >>>>>> above humans in strength, yet the best they do is crack the arena a little. Going feat wise would have everyone as tiered unknown except Lu Bu.
Click to expand...
It would just scale other gods above him. But yes, Lu Bu's feat is certainly the one of, if not the most impressive so far.
PowerToScale said:
Its a sad truth when it comes to primarily focused tournament manga's, with the situation for them being
Primary source of scale = Statesments made directly by the authors or through their characters
Secondary source of scale = Feats done and if they match to statements
Click to expand...
There is no reason to assume their statements should be their primary way of scaling when feats are just as valid if not more. Also, has the author ever said the statements are to be taken over feats? Usually first comes feats aka things the characters actually perform and then statements unless they get contradicted. In cases like this, at best we should give "possibly" or "likely" ratings.
 
I get what you’re saying but idk about the 1st quote being hyperbolic, it’s actually pretty straight forward

as for the feats not lining up with the flowery language, it honestly seems like it’s just the narrator’s way of clarifying their godly power rather than straight up showing planet busting, as that would break the series bc remember this is still a tournament setting

like I agree the heavens statement is hyperbolic, but no one not even city level is expected to do that. Not saying it’s proof for planetary I just think there’s also a problem with the rating you’re trying to replace it with, because it’s still a statement that supports a level far higher than what you’re proposing regardless of how hyperbolic it seems

I agree with the shiva stuff, even if he had those abilities there isn’t enough context to say they weren’t done over time

I also agree with the hajun stuff, but one question I have is hajun’s form in the flashback, is that inferior or superior to his current form?

Ultimately I’m sort of neutral for now since my knowledge on the verse is limited, most of these statements are vague and aren’t backed by feats but like it’s been said before planet busting in a tournament doesn’t make sense, so the author makes an effort to convey their god status through statements instead

also I saw you or someone else mention other flashbacks, i haven’t seen those so keep that in mind
 
Also things not happening is not a qualifier.

Edit: A manga centered around mythological gods, with statements of them creating and being able to destroy the world. Seems simple, seems logical, sounds accurate. Should stay 5-b
 
Last edited:
Arkenis said:
Also things not happening is not a qualifier.

Edit: A manga centered around mythological gods, with statements of them creating and being able to destroy the world. Seems simple, seems logical, sounds accurate. Should stay 5-b
Click to expand...
No it wouldn't. Just because you referenced to mythological gods. Doesn't mean you get to cut corners for 5B
 
Arkenis said:
Why did u ignore the fact I brought up them also being stated to create and destroy the world?
Click to expand...
Insufficient evidence. These statements of planet shattering, realm shattering and creation are tossed around like juggling balls of a court jester. They are numerous but lack any solid foundation to back them up.
 
Greatsage13th said:
Insufficient evidence. These statements of planet shattering, realm shattering and creation are tossed around like juggling balls of a court jester. They are numerous but lack any solid foundation to back them up.
Click to expand...
How are statements insufficient?
 
Can we please stop operating under the assumption that a lack of feats makes any statement flowery? The statements aren't flowery, their straightforward, I don't understand how them "having no feats to back them up" is a detriment to their validity other than the fact that the author can't have characters blowing up the entire arena whenever they attack.
 
azontr said:
Can we please stop operating under the assumption that a lack of feats makes any statement flowery? The statements aren't flowery, their straightforward, I don't understand how them "having no feats to back them up" is a detriment to their validity other than the fact that the author can't have characters blowing up the entire arena whenever they attack.
Click to expand...
The verse currently tops at 7B with officially accepted calculations. We have had no other calculations that surpasses it. The gap between 7B and 5B is way to big to be accepted. If we want the 5B rating. We must fnd a calc that comes close to it.
 
Greatsage13th said:
The verse currently tops at 7B with officially accepted calculations. We have had no other calculations that surpasses it. The gap between 7B and 5B is way to big to be accepted. If we want the 5B rating. We must fnd a calc that comes close to it.
Click to expand...
We don't need a calc, you goober. We can use these statements to find a concrete rating. Countless verses utilize this method.

The only thing in this thread I can really agree with is the Shiva thing being sus, but otherwise, it's mostly just nitpicking very blatant 5-B statements.
 
Why are we making unnecessary assumptions about an incredibly straightforward planet shattering statement.
 
Yeah what the hell is the obession with low balling everything and then taking it as true?
A character says that he can shatter the earth "oh actually he could just broke the earth crust". No evidence, and is assuming things for no real reason other than low balling.
Anyway i disagree with it
 
Livinmeme said:
Yeah what the hell is the obession with low balling everything and then taking it as true?
A character says that he can shatter the earth "oh actually he could just broke the earth crust". No evidence, and is assuming things for no real reason other than low balling.
Anyway i disagree with it
Click to expand...
No evidence for planet busting either my dude. We just assume they can do that.
 
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