Leonidas (Record of Ragnarok) Page Revamp

[Jinx666]

Aight lets see how long this takes

Is everyone fine if we keep the current revamp of Leonidas here, instead of the previous version

Can we also agree not to make profiles for the fighters until their Round is done with. To avoid this in the future please?

 

[Giannysmag]

Obviously your version is significantly better than what we had before but i still have some issues

Extreme Pain Tolerance

Not a listable power, I actually had this discussion when making some revisions for Posedion a while back

Energy Manipulation (Imbued his Völundr with energy when attacking Apollo)

I don't recall this at all, you got any scans?

likely Lightspeed with his Warrior Instinct (Though he could not perceive Apollo’s light arrows, his body was capable of deflecting one of them through sheer instinct as stated by Zeus.[6])

Always been iffy on whether this should be listed as a speed feat or not but I'm leaning towards no cause the whole point of it being called out as instinct is because it wasn't done with actual physical speed, he just predicted where Apollo would fire

Was able to survive multiple of Apollo’s arrows piercing straight through him, which were stated to be able to kill a human being instantly before they felt any pain, and had surprised Apollo who stated how durable he was.[6]

This is an endurance/ stamina feat, not a durability feat

High in Battle IQ

That's not an intelligence tier

Can we also agree not to make profiles for the fighters until their Round is done with. To avoid this in the future please?

Fine by me, calling dibs on Susanoo

 

[Jinx666]

It doesnt have to be listable to be included on Powers and Abilities, only that we probs shouldnt link it to Pain Manipulation. Otherwise i think i said on another thread you've probs seen why Pain Tolerance can be included as its own power validly

It was during the first attack Leo got on Apollo that he had blocked with his Strings. We see the Aspis Saw glow a certain energy around it suddenly and overpower Apollo.


Its deff a speed feat for instinctive movement, since we see Leonidas move AS the arrow was firing towards him. He couldn't register the arrow visually, but he was able to move in time to deflect it completely outside of him specifically reacting to it. If Apollo could see Leonidas moving beforehand, he would have aimed it away from where Leo was bringing his shield, since he seems to have a slight register on his own arrows

Nah its a durability feat, alongside the stamina at another severe blow taken. Apollo himself states that Leo is 'durable' after taking it. I guess the arrow did pierce through him, but the fact he didnt just instantly die like Apollo expected can also be attributed to durability. It wouldn't make a difference on the stats, but its a big talking point.

It is, its High based in Battle IQ, since we have nothing to go off in terms of general intelligence, even though we know Leonidas is pretty much a battle genius. A ton of pages go into depth on what sort of field the character is intelligent in due to their respective fields.

 

[Tomfer]

All Pain Tolerace feats go under the stamina tab, not in P&A.

We don't use "High" for Inteligence anymore, Gifted in combat sounds fair.

 

[Jinx666]

It's less so 'feats' and more just stating alongside Supernatural Willpower that the character in question can withstand inhuman amounts of pain. This is relevant in resisting other named powers like Pain Manipulation. Pain in itself is a killer that people can die from purely by the intensity, so it says something about a characters' default abilities that they can take it. We would surely list it as a Power and Ability if a character is completely immune to Pain or doesnt feel it right? Or much so a resistance. So it is useful in deciding how effective pain would be against the character.

Qin comes to mind, who literally has to experience pain from himself and those he sees, yet can inhumanly take it, though perhaps doesnt qualify under everything supernatural willpower wise

 

[Tomfer]

We don't use "High" for Inteligence anymore, Gifted in combat sounds fair.

Also, add this:

• Instinctive Action (Due to his huge experience on the battlefield, his body was able to move and reflect Apollo’s lightspeed arrow by pure instinct, despite not being able to see it due to its speed.[6])

To his Inteligence in combat since it's a byproduct of his experience and skill.

It's less so 'feats' and more just stating alongside Supernatural Willpower that the character in question can withstand inhuman amounts of pain. This is relevant in resisting other named powers like Pain Manipulation. Pain in itself is a killer that people can die from purely by the intensity, so it says something about a characters' abilities that they can take it.

Still under stamina, not an actual ability. Supernatural Willpower doesn't seem to work here either, unless you show a scan stating to be connected with his will.

 

[Jinx666]

Also, add this:

• Instinctive Action (Due to his huge experience on the battlefield, his body was able to move and reflect Apollo’s lightspeed arrow by pure instinct, despite not being able to see it due to its speed.[6])

To his Inteligence in combat since it's a byproduct of his experience and skill.

Well just cause its a biproduct doesnt mean it also isn't instinctive action. Its an ability he gained from that experience which is perfectly valid to include, especially when it outwardly states that his body is now capable of moving on its own to instinctively block. It can be included in the section, but i don't think it should be removed from the powers and abilities, especially when theres a corresponding power page to link it to.

Still under stamina, not an actual ability. Supernatural Willpower doesn't seem to work here either, unless you show a scan stating to be connected with his will.

Nah, theres no way we cant qualify Supernatural Willpower. That in itself also has Pain tolerance included, and merely is a testament to say the character can take an inhuman amount of pain from say, losing a limb or arm. EVERYONE (barring Zerofuku ig) has Supernatural Willpower in RoR, and it very much shows when these characters are being brought to the brink of death. but can still fight and push forward. Leonidas in himself is driven by the 'essence of Sparta', and was powering through so much while still standing. This dude would most definitely have the willpower.

 

[Tomfer]

Well just cause its a biproduct doesnt mean it also isn't instinctive action. Its an ability he gained from that experience which is perfectly valid to include, especially when it outwardly states that his body is now capable of moving on its own to instinctively block

I... didn't said it's not? You can add both the ability AND put under Inteligence, bro... I just said to ALSO add to his Inteligence. It's both an ability and a skill feat.

Nah, theres no way we cant qualify Supernatural Willpower. That in itself also has Pain tolerance included, and merely is a testament to say the character can take an inhuman amount of pain from say, losing a limb or arm. EVERYONE (barring Zerofuku ig) has Supernatural Willpower in RoR, and it very much shows when these characters are being brought to the brink of death. but can still fight and push forward.

"Characters with this ability may be able to resist enormous amounts of pain, act even when unconscious or well beyond what they should be able to endure, resist possession and mind control, affect their environment, or even go against natural phenomena, such as death or the limits imposed by reality."

Yeah, it works for SW. You can add it as both SW and add to his stamina feat. Still no Pain Tolerance ability tho.

 

[Jinx666]

Aight sorry then, misunderstood, though i'm not sure an instinctual motion (a.k.a something he didn't have to think about) qualifies madly as an intelligence feat either, and instead talks about Experience (which in itself coulda been a whole separate stat on the wiki pages format (bit late now though)

Pain Tolerance talks more about what version of Supernatural Willpower it is, and as explained before, can qualify as something different and worth mentioning for convos. Qin is a prime example of this for RoR characters, who specifically feels the added pain of his opponent, yet withstands it, though this hasn't been shown forward through any of the other reasons

 

[Tomfer]

Aight sorry then, misunderstood, though i'm not sure an instinctual motion (a.k.a something he didn't have to think about) qualifies madly as an intelligence feat either, and instead talks about Experience (which in itself coulda been a whole separate stat on the wiki pages format (bit late now though)

Normally, you'd be right, however, he earned that through years of fighting and experience. Experience, although not entirely, is still is connected to skill. Skill = Inteligence in combat.

Pain Tolerance talks more about what version of Supernatural Willpower it is, and as explained before, can qualify as something different and worth mentioning for convos. Qin is a prime example of this for RoR characters, who specifically feels the added pain of his opponent, yet withstands it.

Qin's case is different, he actually possess pain manipulation. It's not a good comparison. Resisting pain is still a stamina feat.

I agree with being just a stamina feat, I can agree with SW, I do not agree on putting Pain Tolerance as a skill. That's something a lot of old profiles have and it just looks redundant.

 

[Jinx666]

Yeah but i just don't think it really shows how 'intelligent' he is, as opposed to how 'experienced' he is that hes now gained an instinct to it. Since they can work hand in hand but are still different. Not sure how much it says about his overall strategic thinking

Resistance to Pain Manipulation is still listed on other profiles, and its not like Qin technically 'manipulates' it, he's just able to experience it and is extra resistant to it because of it.
It only looks redundant because it doesn't have its own page really, and i feel there is an argument that it should but then thats added work. Either way, it demonstrates clearly what KIND of supernatural willpower they have (this is why i put it alongside Supernatural Willpower), and shows they can handle an inhuman amount of pain which in itself is also a killer. It doesn't exactly hurt anything while being there, and shows how the character would respond to actual pain manipulations from other characters lets say...

 

[Tomfer]

It only looks redundant because it doesn't have its own page really

But it has:

Stamina

Stamina is the measure of a character's ability to remain active, exert themselves for long periods of time, and power through harsh circumstances. This general statistic encompasses a number of different traits and characteristics that operate differently, and that can thus differ within a...

vsbattles.fandom.com

• Pain tolerance: How much pain a character can endure, and how well they can persevere and continue to function through said pain.
• Injury tolerance: How much actual damage a character can withstand and continue to act in spite of it. It is common in fiction to see characters continue to fight despite grievous injuries, such as broken or missing limbs, heavy blood loss, and organ damage. Extreme cases may resemble Type 2 Immortality, with characters temporarily pushing on through injuries that should have killed them. However, as long as an injury remains lethal, it is not actually Type 2 Immortality.

 

[Jinx666]

Thats not a power/ability page, thats a stat page. Pain Tolerance has some arguments for its own page imo but it would likely go under Supernatural Willpower.

You would give characters who have Transformations or Statistics Amplification a 'higher' on their Attack Potency usually. Theres no reason it cant be put on both, much like you're suggesting to put Leo's instinctive action as an intelligence feat.

Theres also no official way to measure pain/injury tolerance, and Supernatural Willpower can also be attributed to Stamina. I don't see the issue with describing the type of SW more easily with Pain tolerance next to it.

 

[Tomfer]

Thats not a power/ability page, thats a stat page.

Hence why it's unneeded.

Pain Tolerance has some arguments for its own page imo

With SW and Stamina already covering that, no, it doesn't have arguments.

I see you're stubborn on this topic, so just call an admin to see the comments. (You'll need to call them anyway, so it's whatever)

 

[Jinx666]

Hence why it's unneeded.

? I dont get this at all. Power/Ability pages are for Powers and Abilities. Stat pages are linking to the stats. You cant link to Stamina under Powers and Abilities.

With SW and Stamina already covering that, no, it doesn't have arguments.

I see you're stubborn on this topic, so just call an admin to see the comments. (You'll need to call them anyway, so it's whatever)

This isn't the point of the thread anyway. I'm not trying to talk about making that page, I just think it has arguments since Pain in itself is something that can kill on its own, and humans have a natural limit to it and its effect on the sensory system. P l e a s e do not derail it to this, I am NOT trying to create a Pain Tolerance page. I just think its better to include alongside Supernatural Willpower to effectively say what variant of that power it is, and also tick other boxes. It's already included in Stamina, but just because its in Stamina doesnt mean we dismiss it from powers and abilities. Theres no way you or I could withstand any of that damage in these fights, not even weaker anime characters that dont necessarily have SW, but can still take a few injuries or smthn and keep going.

 

[Shadow_x007x]

likely Lightspeed with his Warrior Instinct (Though he could not perceive Apollo’s light arrows, his body was capable of deflecting one of them through sheer instinct as stated by Zeus.

This is not necessary, we can calculate that success.

 

[Jinx666]

Ight so if I just get rid of the Class K on this page, along with most of the other feedback, then its fine to just leave as is?

If we're getting rid of the Pain tolerance line from this page, we should remove it from every other RoR page its on, which can be for another CRT