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Re Zero Revisions

I am pretty sure it's puck that releases her i remember reading translations for it somewhere most likely reddit would have go searching for it.

Though if her ice can as i said encass people forever that's not normal ice that's hax, we could still scale it's ap i think but we would also have to mention that it can freeze things eternally or at the very least for a 100 years.
 
So yea i was right i saw the translation here

"Pandora: You just overused your power and will be in cryosleep until this frozen forest's mana is depleted, or being matching your power comes."

"Narration implies she was frozen there untill 'Spirit born only for her' arrived"

So yes it's a suicide move and also the frorest is still frozen.
 
Ok. It's either "frozen forest's mana is depleted" or "being matching your power comes" that we need to scale.

So True Emilia equals True Puck (and Roswaal who is tied with him) who released her, or the amount of mana/heat loss replacement she has exerted to sustain the frozen state of the forest for at least a hundred years.

And also vice versa that True Puck is at least equal to the version of Emilia that froze the forest.

Though, doesn't this also imply that she can still be released if the mana is just depleted? If she was released after 1000 years then that's the amount of mana we would have had to calc, I guess.

But 100 years is a good estimate for the minimum amount of energy.
 
Puck is stronger than emilia, a being matching her power doesn't neccessarily means they are on the same level, a being matching her power could also be a being who has greater power than her.

Emilia was never mentioned by tappei or in verse to be puck level. If this feat for her somehow comes out to be greater than what we have for puck so far he gets scale to it as he is stronger than emilia.
 
According to the author roswaal is above Emilia and that naturally make puck above her as well , she isn't equal to either of them

I did read the replays sorry can't understand from where you came with Emilla = puck
 
True but Emilia is also stronger than Beatrice and Minerva's physical punches... this scaling is all over the place.

"If this feat for her somehow comes out to be greater than what we have for puck so far he gets scale to it as he is stronger than emilia."

That's the main thing, yes.
 
Beatrice is a hax character she has all sorts of hax skills like dimensional bfr and mana nullification so while emilia has more raw power than beatrice, beatrice could just bfr her to another dimension, also were did you hear emilia is above beatrice and minerva?

Hienkel though you need to stop seeing things in terms of ap cause that means nothing in re zero, it's all about the hax man. Tappei said beatrice has a chance to beat puck and that is because she could bfr him to another dimension, would she be able to do before puck could kill her though is another question.

Minerval isn't even that impressive in the first place she doesn't use her powers to directly hurt people yea her punches shake the ground but to what extent? And she causes catastrophes around the world but that's just cause her power drains an insane amount of mana from the world, she can't aim it so again not combat applicable.
 
To be honest i don't know where beatrice even stand in power levels i recall her to be powerful but she was killed by elsa in arc 4 how again ?

Just because she superior to Beatrice doesn't mean she is equal to puck and roswaal when the author said she is weaker than them by his own words

shame she can't use that level again =___=

This is the same when i was trying to accept that 8 years old ram > roswaal lol
 
@Zero beatrice wanted to die which is why she let elsa kill her if she didn't elsa would be done she would just bfr her to another dimension with al shamac.

Beatrice isn't a physical figther so her durability is crap but she has a whole array of hax that nullifies mana and other stuff like her space-time stuff that stops all interferance outside it.
 
"also were did you hear emilia is above beatrice and minerva?"

Strength Ranking among 7 Witches Envy > Sloth > Pride > Gluttony > Greed = Lust>>>>>>>>>Wrath

Ranking of magical strength Roswaal > Emilia(At her best) > Echidna > Beatrice > Fortuna

No of course I know Roswaal is stronger than Emilia by having either better hax spells or magic and also Emilia is stronger than Echidna or Beatrice by either hax or magic (if they fought in those match ups the > ones would win most of the time statistically). But by the same logic if we assume that Puck is killing Hakugei by hax then it's impossible to attribute Hakugei's durability to anyone, or even scale Reinhard to Puck because we don't know if the victory is determined by AP/Durability or Hax.

Just about any match up in Re:Zero would essentially be bogged down by this problem. We cannot make reliable power-scaling for anyone then.

Echidna's best magical feat so far is creating 3 immortal spirits of immense strength, the Library, plus Anastasia's scarf and Lews Meyer (how difficult is this compared to creating animated ice, for example), but we don't know how that would equate if the creation effort is converted into destruction.
 
Ok how in the hell is echidna even there ? I think this refer to how much mana each cha have Emilla may have tons of magical power but she don't know how to use it
 
That's a ranking on magical strength though seems vague what exactly that means to me cause it surely isn't about raw power or hax cause sehkment would stomp all of them combined.

Roswaal from what we can see so far doesn't have any hax though, emilia at her best would have more ap than beatrice or fortuna but in a straight up who would win in a figth beatrice would beat emilia cause again because of bfr, though beatrice as a spirit needs to have mana given to her to use such abilities but she has learned how to get around it a bit, that and emilia could maybe freeze her before betty could bfr her.

Also what is echidna even doing on the list she is among the weakest witches and uses hax, same hax as beatrice so this list makes no sense to me.

I say treat the magical ranking strength ranking list with a grain of salt cause we have no idea what that even means.
 
ZERO7772 said:
Ok how in the hell is echidna even there ?
Click to expand...
At the last part of my post: It's implied that Echinda's Creation magic is very powerful, so we can assume that she's at least a pretty powerful being. Flugel's Creation is also powerful in that he could build his massive Tower and also create Shaula (who is also immortal, as in she never ages) by magical means.

Again problem is converting these Creation feats into their theoretical durability or strength.
 
Echidna has creation magic? This is news to me i just thought she could generate seperate realities and manipulate them.

She is still among the weakest witches though.
 
Although, we can scale Minerva's mana-draining punches to Durability, rather than AP.

For example, Reinhard would most likely survive the destructive effects of a world that's being destroyed by Minerva punches (survive massive volcano erruptions, huge earthquakes and tsunamis, etc). That would scale to his durability rather than AP (as in whether he can survive the destruction of a Continent, if the feat is quantifiable).
 
@pegasus You know the ranking doesn't mean who beat who , tappei said even beako have chance againts Puck if the condition meet
 
Heinkel Astrea said:
ZERO7772 said:
Ok how in the hell is echidna even there ?
Click to expand...
At the last part of my post: It's implied that Echinda's Creation magic is very powerful, so we can assume that she's at least a pretty powerful being. Flugel's Creation is also powerful in that he could build his massive Tower and also create Shaula (who is also immortal, as in she never ages) by magical means.
Again problem is converting these Creation feats into their theoretical durability or strength.
Click to expand...
That does not refer to her combat skill at all she just have tons of magic power and knowledge she isn't interested in developing herself

What the hell shaula is just the sage student this is first time hearing she was created by him 0_o
 
Yes Echidna has created 4+4 intelligent spirits so far, plus her Library, and also the Sanctuary Barrier that was created by her before her death.

So Tappei was most likely trying to describe how much magic is required to perform all of these feats by Echidna, and pegged it as her 'magical strength' when asked by readers.
 
@Hienkel i mean minerva is dead so there wouldn't be such an occassion to scale anyone to survivng the side effects of her power, unless we got some line about her powers wrecking havoc near a witch or something like tha but we don't even know what catastrophes her powers bring so we would also need to know that as well.

@Zero It really does though, clearly some characters that are ranked above could be put down by lower tiers under certain conditions like even sehkment could be beaten by beatrice if she got the chance to bfr her but beatrice would not get the chance to do anything, so it's a general run down of overall strength is what i think.
 
"That does not refer to her combat skill at all she just have tons of magic power and knowledge she isn't interested in developing herself "

I am NOT talking about Minerva's combat strength. I am talking about the durability required to survive Minerva's world-shattering environmental events, in case it becomes quantifiable in the future.

For example we know that the surface world of Modern Earth combined likely won't have the durability to stop/survive Minerva, though this will require further calculation for the land masses.

"What the hell shaula is just the sage student this is first time hearing she was created by him 0_o "

Ignore the Shaula part for now, we can just scale Flugel to his own Tower.
 
"Hienkel i mean minerva is dead so there wouldn't be such an occassion to scale anyone to survivng the side effects of her power."

It doesn't need to be feats demonstrated at present, and we don't need to calc it now. What if Arc 8 visualizes the Witches' past since Tappei mentioned that he'll write a volume about their historical past at some point.
 
@Hienkel did echidna create all those things because of her ability though, echidna is very intelligent and regularly conducted experiments all of that could have just been byproducts of her experiments.
 
@heinkel i was talking about echidna

@Pegasus i can't even take this as power levels i can't imagine Emilia beating beako if you take their abilities into count sekhmet isn't even there and she will Crush them combined just like you said , it's not about how much "magical power " you have but rather how "you use it "
 
Well, we know that at least 3 spirits were not byproducts, and tailor-made specifically by Echidna for specific purposes to defend something important to her. Beatrice; an unnamed one; and the body that Puck (who originally may have really been Human as many people speculate, but require more confirmation) currently inhabits.

Anyway, the question is more like whether Echidna's magic gives her enough durability to survive the environmental effects of Minerva's punches, who is weaker than her in every form, and how she does that. Arc 8 is going to show some pretty interesting interactions between the Witches when they were still alive, with Minerva punching anyone she sees hurt, so it's possible that how well, and in what manner, the Witches cope with Minerva's unintentional destruction feats would be demonstrated.

@Zero

Yeah ok, but the point stands that Echinda's magical strength would be more or less relevant to how she would weather off Minerva's unintentional destruction feats. It's not scaling her AP to Minerva but rather quantifying how she survives it.
 
@Zero i thought you were talking about the overall tiering rankings not the magical one lol my bad as for the magical one i think it has to do with what you said how you use magic. Roswaal can use all elements and emilia is a specialist in ice magic likewise beatrice and echidna in there debuff type skills, they are great with using their abilites.

@Hienkel the lewis system or whatever they are called were experiments by echinda to achieve immortality, she did indeed create the spirits like beatrice and puck with purposes but is that because of her ability though and not cause she found out through some experiment how to create spirits? You would need proof for this.

Arc 8 is gonna revolve around the witches? That's news to me i would love to see events that happened in the past.
 
What we know is that the power level gap between the 3 Great Spirits and the 4 Lewes Meyers (who only have personality, and mentioned by Tappei to be one of the 5 Weakest along with Petra/Subaru/Anastasia) is immense, and also that the methodology Echidna used to create them was different. I don't know how different, but they are different.

For example, Lewes is only a copy of the original body, given fragments of Echidna's personality to perform certain programmed duties. On the other hand, Beatrice and the Unnamed one are brand new spirits with totally unique personalities, abilities, autonomy, and physical traits, who she can only control by Contract. (even if Puck was originally human and was just given the body of a shapeshifting cat) So we know at least that they were created differently with an unknown method (the 3 Great Spirits were not just copies of a human body that were given Echidna's personality fragments, compulsive instructions, and minimal power), only not about how differently.

We can just check this in Arc 8 or after that. And yes I had read that Tappei is going to write a volume about the past of the Witches, as he would for Aldebaran and others. Come to think of it, I don't know if it's going to be EX like the past of Crusch/Wilhelm, but yeah he did say he was going to write it at some point to explain Re:Zero's mysteries.
 
I just think to say she has creation magic at this point based on just that isn't really justified as we have no idea how exactly she created those spirits, we should just go with what we know at that moment that she can create separate dimensions and manipulated them.

This isn't really relevant to this thread anyway so lets stop here on this subject we can discussed such things on the discussion thread.

So as usual we are waiting for calcs to be evaluated lol, we haven't made any changes in weeks.
 
By the way guys, can we calc Subaru's speed where he is freaking out at Felix nibbling on his ear? I think it could be Supersonic.
 
I think that'd fall under comedic effect and should not be considered. Still pretty fast though.
 
Still no comment on the puck feat or the whale feat. Guess we will have to message some calc members again on this, and we still have to get the elsa feat approved.

Been waiting for the puck feat to be approved for a while now so we can finally move on to other things and are still stuck on this same feat and we have other things we need to get approved as well.

I just want something to be approved so we can feel like we are making some progress haven't changed any stats in weeks.
 
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...waal_Mansion_Destruction_(Town_level)_AP_Feat

Our calc member Lina Shields finally approved using the Carey Sublette calculator for Puck's feat. We can use just one calculator in the future now. However, one upper end for the calc is still yielding Low 7-C, so I will wait for next month's manga chapter to make another calc to put both ends at 8-A. Wait for me to fix the blog. It will not go below 8-A, however.

If either Low 7-C (original calc) or 7-C (new calc) gets approved for Divided Hakugei's durability feat, we can also scale Puck's AP to Divided Hakugei's durability.

Take note that the killed Hakugei in that scenario is a lighter and weaker one (described as such by 3 different characters), so the original Hakugei would be much more durable. So I think the firepower to kill a Divided Hakugei is already good as a low-end for anyone who can kill the Whole Hakugei.
 
Ok so we have at least 8-A for the puck feat but potentially low 7-C to 7-C for the whale feat then.

The whale feat is more important at the moment then as it has a higher result and the puck one needs more info to work on, we could use the puck feat as it has been approved but we would just have to change stats again if the whale feat is approved so lets wait on that.
 
The Reinhard City Wall blog got updated too. It's City Block for now.

And we have the following new characters who are 8-C with or without magic:

Emilia by Ice Spike/Ice Shield with Supersonic combat speed (scale higher than Rem) and Supersonic reaction speed (if Manga Elsa gets approved)

Betelgeuse by Unseen Hand (his Fingers destroyed some of the buildings in the village, and also defended against Emilia's ice attacks until becoming frozen)

Julius with sword attacks and also Building level physical durability against Betelgeuse Unseen Hand (as long as he can see them he obliterates the Hands)

And Betelgeuse's physical durability without any magic is also at least Wall level. He survived getting hit by Patrasche/car in a surprise attack.
 
The reinhard city wall feat seems to have been accepted, we could upgrade elsa's durability based on it now then, still waiting on her speed to be accepted.

From the live tweets the author does he said that betelguese merges several of the small hands to make the big ones, the small ones can cut down trees so they are wall level and the big ones can crush buildings.
 
Subaru is making the unseens hands as Krusty as it can be , about Julius i don't think he can be Building level unless he cut the "big hands " since the normal size hands are tree level at best

And of fourse all of them use magic so no character without magic can do this
 
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