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Re Zero Revisions

Yeah no problem. At least I learned how to make wall calcs now in the approved way. I will just make another calc for Elsa in the future.

For the next calc I only need to get the thickness for Priestella Water Gate City's aqueducts, because Kurgan is destroying them with his sword swings. Garfiel's shield bashes withstand such attacks from Kurgan, and succeed in defeating him 1v1 in the end, so that can establish a baseline for how strong he can be.


Small one:

Aquaduct Mriehel


Big one:

Aqueduct of Segovia 08


it's at least as wide as two large people, though. Kurgan and Garfiel were fighting inside it. So about 3-4 meters width at least.


Subaru will probably tell us how big it looks to him at some chapter in the arc. That's the information we need to get the thickness of the aqueducts.

http://rezero.wikia.com/wiki/Kingdom_of_Lugnica

Priestella (ÒâùÒâ¬Òé╣ÒâåÒâ® Purisutera): Also known as the Water Gate City (µ░┤ÚûÇÚâ¢Õ©é Suimon Toshi), Priestella is one of the five cities major cities and is the closest to Kararagi with the Tigracy River separating them. It is a beautiful city and a famous tourist location that is built in the middle of a large lake, with waterways running through the city. The waterways divide the city into four parts called avenues which are numbered clockwise from the main gate. It is also the birthplace of Hoshin of the Wilderness and has been long associated with merchants because of its proximity to Kararagi.


Edit: It's large enough to float small boats carrying 6~9 people. The city has an elevated terrain that goes lower towards the center. So they have thick walls to prevent flooding the central lower levels if upper waterways are breached.

I will have to try scaling the walls of historical aqueducts that are large enough to hold small boats.
 
We'll probably have to use canal wall thickness rather than column thickness. 5 meters is very thick for a wall.

And we also have to confirm the design of the waterway to confirm if we can use Roman aqueducts for this comparison. Is it really suspended midair as it moves downward, How high is it, or is it ground level, etc.

This is how the waterways look like in Subaru's eyes:

Waterway


The born-metropolitan boy's spine shakes at the splendor of the city skyline. But what exactly is he seeing?

We'll then have to get the size of the hole Kurgan made. We can use the wall's height for the hole's height then use whatever width is sufficient to leak enough flooding water to transport Garfiel for hundreds of meters downstream in the city's streets. That's the hard part.
 
Nevermind, I just need to get the size of a Wagpig, to get the minimum size of the hole Garfiel made on Roswaal Mansion's ceiling. We don't need Kurgan scaling.

Then I will be able to get the volume and apply Fragmentation calc on it.

This is how big the Wagpig is: (can swallow a Giant whole)

http://rezero.wikia.com/wiki/Demon_Beast#Wagpig
Wagpig (Õ▓®Þ▒Ü Waggupiggu) have round red eyes and jet black skin that's thick and hard like rock. They have a large mouth seemingly capable of swallowing a Giant whole and flat teeth.

A hippopotamus has a 2-feet wide mouth, so I'll scale that up to 5 feet. Can be bigger; I don't know how big the beast should be to swallow someone as big as a gorilla. It's bigger than a 6-meter long Elephant though.

4.25 m * 5/2 = 10.625 meters length

1.5 m * 5/2 = 3.75 meters girth

http://www.chacha.com/question/what-is-the-average-girth-of-a-hippo

Size of the ceiling hole (size of the Wagpig and 13-inch ceiling thickness for 2-story buildings):

10.625 m * 3.75 m * 0.33 m = 13.1484375 m3 = 13,148,437.5 cc

13,148,437.5 cc * 8 J/cc = 105.1875 MJ = 25.14 kg of TNT or Small Building level to fracture the ceiling (large debris)

The calc may change if the hole's dimension adjusts for Garfiel and Meili falling together, and the calc will also change depending on the ceiling thickness. Roswaal's mansion is big and top-heavy compared to 2-story houses; it maybe as thick as 1 meter for the medieval castles of high-ranking nobles designed to withstand attacks, etc.

Roswaal mansion


I will need to create another blog for this. I need more input for the ceiling thickness of medieval castles, and other stuff.

I will use the method used here for the same feat for reference, except I will use the Warpig's dimension for radius since we don't have something to pixel-scale.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Thebluedash/Danganronpa_calculation_-_THE_GREAT_GOZU
 
Ikr, i want someone like this to work on series i am interested in, so we can actually get stuff done and not make guesses.
 
What would we scale emilia's durability as when we make a profile for her, street level but mcb with magic, if the mcb calc for her is accepted?
 
She's physically Street level if blitzed. Maybe Wall level given the speed of Elsa's kick she survived.

Elsa kick


And Emilia's jumps are subsonic too. Her legs have to be Wall level durability to jump that far and fast. (she only needs to withstand 5000 joules to qualify for Wall level. Usain Bolt speed)

Emilia jump1


MCB for the six Ice Wall layers is okay if it's accepted. It's withstanding Shaula's vaporizing needles. And it would probably have saved Subaru from Puck's MCB -> Small Town attack if it was cast in front of him.

The calc is large because it's six walls created together. Individually they are weaker.

But Emilia has shown that she's creating them all at the same time, so it can be handled as a single feat.

As for defensive conversion, that amount of ice can withstand the pressure and heat from low MCB level explosions. That's the specific heat and durability/density-mass of that amount of ice. (unless the attack either mechanically or magically ignores the durability) We just need to get it approved.

But most importantly I think it can be converted into AP, because if she used that ice offensively the effect would broadly be the same (she released 150 tons of TNT energy as she created those ice; she can freeze 150 tons energy worth of people with that, or like hundreds of normal people if they are within range). Other freezing feats like Elsa's have been converted that way.
 
So, we have a couple of things we need to find out.


1) How many Unseen Hands Sekhmet has (Multiplied to Hakugei/Flugel's Tree)

I'm currently expecting a range of 100 to 1000 hands, from Betelgeuse's 100 hands right now to potentially Puck's 1000 hands requirement.

Personally, I don't think we can directly scale Puck's hand requirement to Betelgeuse' hands - 1000 x Wall level hands is... Large Building level at best and we know Puck's at least MCB Durability right now to Town level later. Betelgeuse would need 1,161,160 Hands to kill Puck (140,140 for the lowest MCB version) by current calc even with the most optimistic values.


http://pastebin.com/GbgUPSKZ

Not only is he capable of summoning a hundred of these


Sekhmet can manifest her Hands in all directions:

http://rezero.wikia.com/wiki/Sekhmet

Authority of Sloth (µÇáµâ░Òü«µ¿®Þ⢠Taida no Ken'nō): Sekhmet is able to use the Authority of Sloth.

  • Sekhmet is seemingly capable of using an advanced version of the Unseen Hand as she is capable of hitting things with an invisible force without moving. She is able to use this power in all directions.

Puck may not be talking about the 1000 Hand requirement literally. However, it is logical to assume that he's not talking about Betelgeuse's own current Hands. He knows how pitifully weak Betelgeuse's 100 Hands are compared to his own power - 10x them would leave a scratch on his body, maybe. He's already leveling city blocks in the Lugnican capital.

He may be talking more about how strong individual hands would become by the time the number of hands grows to 1000.


So, how many hands for Sekhmet? 100 for low-end (Witch of Sloth >>>>>>> Archbishop of Sloth)? The difference between 100-1000 won't really be big to tier placement, by the way (it's only 10x difference, at best between Low and Normal).


2) How big Satella's Hand is (Multiplied to 2000)

The hands of Satella are roughly 4.82 km in diameter (square root 300,000 people / 12,897 people / sq.km urban density up to 18th century Earth), if it's confirmed as big as the capital of Lugnica. However, we need to find the chapter where this is said in the WN.

And also get the quote for where it's mentioned Sekhmet would murder Daphne's White Whale with a wave of her Hand (punch, crush, whatever). The Hand's impact energy is more poweful than the force of Flugel's Tree crashing down (which did not crush Hakugei by itself).
 
From asking around what i found out is essentially sehkment's hands are gigantic how gigantic idk and there was one occasion where satella used her hands and it was also said to be enormous, how enormous idk. So her hands being able to crush the capital is basically an assumption based on if satella were to be free at full power. So i think we should drop the whole hands being able to crush a city idea as apparently there is no proof.

Also about reinhard with reid, i heard in arc 5 it was stated that if he was to get serious he would have the power to go against the world itself, this is also vague though world as in the literal world or world as in the countries? leaning more towards it being the countries.
 
A casual MCB person who can blitz his way around while ignoring any haxx his way via resists can go against the world. Who's gonna stop him when their attacks miss while he sleeps?
 
@Gemmysaur pretty much, if he decided to destroy the world as in rek the kingdoms nobody is gonna stop him, i propose we put reinhard with reid at unknown, he would be a match for satella and satella did indeed destroy half the world but from what i understand satella's mere existence dries the life out of everything and that spread large enough to cover half the world, doesn't seem like an instantaneous feat.
 
Satella's destroy half the world thing is haxx, not something we can directly calc so I agree with unknown for now.
 
Dead in what sense? We as usual need calcs evaluated to apply any changes, what do you think about putting reinhard with reid at unknown?
 
Cause we don't know how strong he is with it, being equal to satella with it means nothing cause satella destroyed half the world with hax so that doesn't scale to him not to mention it seems she didn't do it instantly, was just an aoe attack that spread until it engulfed half the world.

And reinhard being able to go against the world if serious or take on kingdoms doesn't mean being able to destroy those things but just the world/kingdom being unable to do anything against him if he was serious.
 
I remember it's said he will wipe the the entire kingdom if he fight seriously < that wasn't the exact line ?

If so he definitely can't be scaled To satella as Reinhard isn't stronger than his enemies by having higher AP or a hax that rival them it's by having resistances against everything Satella can swallow the entire world and he will be standing there when he can't do half of that
 
When i was first creating the profile for reinhard i was told that line about if he got serious he could wipe out an entire kingdom but recently i heard from the same person that it was just their speculation and that they meant wiping out the kingdom as in if reinhard choose to go attack a kingdom no kingdom could stop him. So yea it's not a legit line.
 
Satella destruction


Black Hole Eat Planet
Black Hole Eat Planet.avi


(Arc 4 Chapter 49 - Love You Love You Love You Love You Love You Love You Love You)

I am fairly certain that Black Hole-style gravitation is how Satella destroys the planet.

The more the black hole absorbs matter, the more its mass is increased and becomes stronger.


Now, if you are willing to trust me (or Tappei) and treat her feat as a gravitating black hole, that cumulatively gains power in intense speeds as it absorbs more and more matter, we can use the following calculator to get her AP.

We'd still need to calc for this, but her AP so far would be creating a black hole that has half the mass of a planet with Earth's gravity, that she swallowed - and how much destruction it will cause (or its energy equivalent).

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Black_Hole_feats_in_fictio


(By the way, that's just Satella's ethereal fragment manifesting momentarily because Subaru spent too much time with Echidna. She's still sealed in her sealed place)


In any case, this is already far more energy than what Multi-Continent damage you can deal with nuclear weapons. And it's no surprise, because she has already destroyed at least 60,000,000 km2 of the planet in the past by current calcs (about 40% of Earth's land mass). Checking the article, we can get the potential AP this way but would have to use speed for someone who could resist the pull of the black hole.


Otherwise, after I'm done with Flugel's Tree, I have nothing more to calc for the whole series.

(honestly, with so many feats in Re:Zero being written off as simple haxx or PIS, that makes a lot of VS comparisons invalid right from get go, I don't really want to calc this series for long)

(For example you can see that this person already has High 6-A treatment for several years through reality-warping/haxx, even though it's not a physically quantifiable feat https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Griffith)
 
Black hole hax for satella? Honestly not surprised the verse is hax after all. So the black hole initially starts small but eventually engulfs half the planet and from this we can get multi-continent level? Seems legit.

Well hienkel that's just the way it is man re zero isn't a verse where we can for any feat just look to calc ap, cause it is filled with hax. As for the pis that is only for the first arc though as it seems apparant to me that tappei didn't plan things out right at first hence we have stuff like subaru reacting faster than reinhard while later being constantly said to be weak.

Also since everyone seems to agree i will place reinhard at unknown with reid, wait would this satella feat even scale to him, highly doubt it, the black hole probably wouldn't work on him cause he likely has resistance to such gravitation pulls.
 
If someone uses Reality-Warping magic to damage the surface of Multi-Continents, he generally gets the same feat as his AP because, normally, he would be able to replicate the same feat on Earth. If Griffith/Satella can destroy half the planet in their respective verse, by magic, then it's assumed they can do the same to half of Earth as well unless there is specific condition that prohibits them from doing so. We just have to specify by what method they are achieving that.

As for Reinhard, I dunno, I'm at least pretty sure he should be pretty indestructive to someone like Griffith in a VS setting if he is already immune to Satella's attacks in a fight that becomes an eternal stalemate. Satella could destroy the whole planet yet fail to kill him. The question is how you quantify that to represent an actual feat.

In fact we won't even need to use a black hole calc for this and work to prove it because it's already directly stated that she destroyed half the land mass of Re:Zero. We were just able to know now that it's a single, uniform feat (activate it once and it will continue to swallow to grow bigger) and how she has done it. We just need to get Re:Zero's land mass.
 
Yea if you can reality warp a planet's surface or in this case destroy half of it by using a black hole it still achieves the same effect and is scalable to the characters. What i was trying to say though is that generally the characters in re zero don't use their abilities to destroy stuff in the sense of destroy a mountain or something yea we have characters like puck, reinhard and sehkment etc who do that but pretty much all the other high tiers use hax. They have hax that directly affects their opponents like typhons hax that breaks peoples body or sirius matter manipulation to turn people into flies.

Well based on the way reinhard is portrayed i could very well see him stalemating griffth, we don't have much in the way of evidence to prove it yet though but i am pretty sure someone like pandora isn't gonna reality warp him out of existence.

I don't think it's scalable to reinhard he definitely has resistance to satella's black hole cause that's reinhard entire thing being resistance to hax so if satella tried to suck him up with the black hole it wouldn't work cause he has resistance to that not cause he has like multi-continental durability, plus don't black holes ignore durability anyway?.
 
We can indicate that Reinhard has developed high resistance to almost every real world physical feat/RZ feat that ignores durability, and likely to other form of attacks that deal damage by the same convention, though I don't know how people would consider that in a VS battle (or even aware of that fact). He can't be killed by lightspeed hand slashes that occurs at time stop which explicitly cut through everything except only him, for example.

It's a strange case where he exhibits high resistance against ignore-durability attacks, but his physical durability is unquantifiable because... well the author flat out says that he can't be damaged.

A better solution is we can just make a profile for Satella herself instead of giving Satella stuffs to Reinhard (we already have got good fanarts for her so she doesn't need to remain faceless). Reinhard may be Unknown with Reid but Satella would have a more or less defined AP cap, such as At Least Multi-Continent to Likely Planet level by shadow magic that she has performed in the past. And we understand the mechanism now and environmental effects. We just have to specify that she's using shadow magic to perform this feat (I think it's generally understood, though, that should she manifest herself in RL, Satella would be able to destroy at least half of terrestrial planets like Earth. The setting that Re:Zero is linked to Earth with several Earth people directly living in it with similar rules of physics (like gravity working normally in RZ) gives a pretty good sense of scale).
 
Well it is true that reinhard has a crap ton of resistance to everything in the verse, where did lightspeed hand slashes come from though i think you are referring to regulus? Was it explicitly stated that they are lightspeed?

As for him resisting that yea he did, anything in the trajectory of regulus's hand wave is cut no matter the toughness and it did nothing to reinhard, seems like some sort of space manipulation that regulus uses to do that seeing as essential his ability stops the time around him and allows only his interference in it.

We should go by what he has shown to resist in verse so far though, so give him resistance to death manipulation as sirius death manipulation didn't work on him and also space manipulation seeing as regulus's ability also didn't work on him.We could also put those and also add "and likely many others".

We could make a profile for satella and just lowball even and put her at continent level for destroying half the world, would need a calc for anything above that.Guessing we would scale her speed from reinhard.
 
Time stop means Regulus attack is effectively undodgeable once within his range, someone should literally move at 0 sec to dodge it. We are fairly certain the imperviousness does not come from a dodging feat.

As for continent, we know for now that Kingdom of Lugnica takes 12 days to travel from the capital to Pristella, or half the country, with an Earth Dragon that is explicitly stated to move at at least 100 kph for as long 14 hours per day. The problem is that the only map we currently have is inaccurate and gives many people wrong impression that it's much smaller than it actually is (when there's 9,600 km highway distance seperating just two cities even assuming a lowballed 8-hour traveling speed), which as you know some Reddit posters have already commented on with real-life examples. Lugnica alone has to match the size of Europe (the longitude of an Earth hemisphere) to be expected to have both almost perpetually snowy northern regions and perpetually desert southern regions in the same country. Likewise, it has 50 million population spread across different climate regions, comparable to Europe in 17-18th centuries.

I prefer using normal gravity (and to a lesser degree, the 24h day-night cycle) to reason that RZ's feature is much closer to Earth in terms of mass and geography than the size of the Moon's continents, for example, until we establish, for starters, that gravity in RZ is magical. In fact, I'm more inclined to believe proving that RZ is smaller than Earth bears more burden of proof, since as a general rule of thumb fantasy worlds assume Earth-size as the initial size of the starting planet (then move up or down the size scale from there).

Was there another case in VSBattles where a world had to use calc to prove that it's the same size as Earth, or, on the contrary, had to use calc to prove that it's different size of Earth? This is the first time I ever heard the assumption that it should be smaller than Earth, actually (IIRC it was never stated in the novel either, just that half of the world was already destroyed which kinda explains why it might have to look smaller at first glance (but by the same token, 2x the current known world for the original world size)).

But most importantly we have to decide if we usually calc to prove that a world is the same size as Earth, or usually calc to prove that it's the different size from Earth. I don't like doing more calcs if, and I said if, it's normally the other way around.
 
Well moving in a timestop is infinite speed, which reinhard definitely doesn't have so as i said i think it's just resistance to space manipulation and possibly time? Not sure on the time part cause doesn't regulus only stop the time of himself and anything he is wearing so he can't stop someone else's time?.

I said continent level as a lowball cause destroying half the re zero world is at least a continent level feat wasn't talking anything about gravity.
 
Ok so i will put reinhard with reid at unknown now and give him resistance to death manipulation, space manipulation and empathic manipulation, empathic cause sirius couldn't influence his emotions and also say likely many others. Anyone object?
 
Time stopping himself or anything else he touches means only him and anything he touched are time-stopped. E.g. they are the only thing that moves.

Reinhard's time should stop while Regulus performs attack from his POV; otherwise, it imples Regulus is MHS in order to be able to land a hit on him. In any case, there's no way Reinhard would fail to dodge Regulus without time itself being stopped, the time stop feature is the only thing that allows Regulus to last as long as he did.

Well, my main issue with the Continental thing is that there should be a distinction made between statements like 'dstroyed half a continent', 'destroyed an entire continent', and 'destroyed half the whole world but could have done much more'. I could make use of Re:Zero's curvature in some of the images to calc that 4 times Lugnica's size is easily Multi-Continental sized, but in the first place the only reason we are running that calc is that we presumed 'half the World' is only Continent-sized and not 2 or 2.5 Continent-sized because we think Re:Zero is much smaller than Earth.

If Re:Zero is the same size as Earth as a general rule of thumb, half of it is already Multi-Continent (only 17.2 million km2 out of Earth's 510 million km2 is needed to qualify for MC). Someone may make a calc that Re:Zero is much smaller than Earth in order to prove that it's actually Continent-sized and bring down Satella's AP, but it seems odd to me that we should be the one to do that first when conventional knowledge already indicates that half of Re:Zero is Multi-Continental.

(Note, for the purpose of curvature measurement, it has never been said that Re:Zero is flat. Priscilla Barielle explained to Subaru that there's a Great Waterfall that makes ships unable to cross the sea, which is different from her saying that the planet is flat (or if she did say that it's associating the waterfall to its flatness). Subaru himself says at least 5 times until Arc 3 that Re:Zero has a distinct horizon.)

This is one of the possible images I can use for curve measurement.

Rz curved horizon


I mean, yes, I can complete calcs sometime in the future, but I will have to rewatch all Re:Zero episodes to cross-examine all the curvature measurements to get Re:Zero's consistent size (get the distance for 1 degree of curvature, then multiply it by 360 or something). So, I was wondering if you want me to prove that it's Multi-Continent by making that calc that's normally not practiced, or, adopt conventional knowledge (that the current surviving world of RZ is already half the size of Earth until said otherwise), and leave the burden of proof to other people to prove that it should actually be Continental.

It's because, in VSBattles, half of Earth/RZ (510.1 million km2) is already Multi-Continental (only 17.4 million km2 to enter the threshold). RZ should literally be 1/15 the size of Earth for half of it to be Continental level.

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/102597

You understand the implication of what I am saying, right? Destroying half the surface of an Earth-sized Planet (the default size), or even something 1/15 Earth's size, is already Multi-Continental level by default.
 
Wait so from regulus perspective time is stopped then everything else is also stopped so essentially it still functions as a time stop? This is a bit confusing

I get what you are saying standard assumptions state that the fictional world would be the same size as earth unless proven otherwise and we have evidence that suggest that the re zeo world isn't small just cause it has only 4 countries and is flat but the thing is i don't want to have to deal with arguments later on about the size of the verse so i suggest we create a blog now explaining the size and why it isn't small so we don't have to deal with it later on.
 
Regulus is moving while everything else is stopped. Only his clothing and what he touched are moving at the same time as he. It's confusing because we don't get a Regulus first-person POV, we only get a glimpse of how it looks like from others' POV and a few descriptions of what happened.


Yes... Making the decision to make a blog takes a few seconds, but it takes several weeks for me to actually make this, and since I don't have time for that and you don't seem wholly convinced with the safety of this assumption yet (that, I doubt we would ever argue over this in the future, since VSBattles system for standard world size is something we generally agree upon), just put Satella at At Least Continent to establish the lowest limit with Likely Higher as is normally practiced. It's too much effort for me for too little change.


Personally I am already quite iffy using the Surface Area only and not the Volume for the feat as it is. You can chip away only 2% of Earth's volume (I repeat, only 2%) and it would approach Moon level feats. The reason why I believe this approach is viable is because we know now that Satella's feat is not an explosion feat with a flat 2-D blast radius, but rather a 3-dimensional 'hole' ripped in suspended space with omnidirectional absorbing effects. It is an implosion feat that affects mass and depth as much as it affects area. Draping the destroyed surface area on a sphere would yield its indirect volume measurement, but I have to explain this so on and so forth, so...

And any calc we make at this point may be easily superceded by tweets people will inevitably ask in the future about 'can Satella swallow the Earth/the Sun/Stars' etc with Tappei simply giving yes or no answers to each as he continues writing (and more so given that stellar concepts are such a common thing in RZ, and we only got to a glimpse of it by Arc 6 beginning with when Tappei showed a ridiculuously sized Tower that had ceilings completely out of sight for his star puzzles... multiplied by seven). We might not even actually need to calc Satella's higher level feats right now.

Let's juse ask some calc members to finish evaluating existing feats first.
 
Ok so he is moving while everything thing else is stopped that makes sense, So does that give reinhard time manipulation resistance?

I agree with the assumption is just that maybe sometime in the future someone would come around to question it. I agree with just putting it at At Least Continent Likely Higher to save us all the trouble.
 
If Reinhard is moving at the same time as Regulus, and this feat is shown, then yes he has Time Manipulation resistance.

If Reinhard is not shown moving, which would seem instant to our own POV but Regulus simply says something like 'why... can't I touch you'? Then it means he's just resistant against Ignore Durability attacks.

Actually for Regulus, we have to observe more how his offensive Time Stop and defensive Time Stop are respectively practiced. Given Subaru's EMM/EMT's similarity to Regulus Authority, stopping his own time for absolute defense may mean he's invulnerable but he cannot move, etc.
 
Well i don't know if they were both moving at the same time so not gonna press for time manipulation resistance, reinhard definitely has spatial manipulation resistance though cause regulus wasn't able to put him down with his defenses up and that ability to cut anything in the trajectory of his hand is definetly space cutting.
 
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