Raiden's "Reactive Power Level" (Metal Gear Rising)

[Sir_Ovens]

Considering we see Sam's sword not breaking during his fight with Armstrong and the fact that his sword was such a big deal, it got an entire cutscene dedicated to Raiden getting it, is it not obvious that the sword was what helped him beat Armstrong in the end? Contextually it makes the most sense since according to occam's razor, it takes the least amount of steps to reach that conclusion since we never see any mention of anyone in the cast having some from of reactive power level.

 

[AKM sama]

Yours has to be the single, absolute worst argument I have ever, EVER seen, and it's genuinely baffling to me that ANYONE is agreeing, baffling

I don't think you should be making such arguments here. How is that contributing anything to the thread? I can easily reverse this by saying yours is the absolute worst argument I have ever seen and it's baffling that 3 other people agreed with you, while 10 people agreeing with the opposing side is proof that their arguments are better than yours.

You don't need to agree with the opposition, and people are free to agree with whoever they find more convincing. I suggest you drop that attitude. It's fine to get heated in a debate, but don't make dumb incendiary remarks.

 

[Chariot190]

Considering we see Sam's sword not breaking during his fight with Armstrong and the fact that his sword was such a big deal, it got an entire cutscene dedicated to Raiden getting it, is it not obvious that the sword was what helped him beat Armstrong in the end? Contextually it makes the most sense since according to occam's razor, it takes the least amount of steps to reach that conclusion since we never see any mention of anyone in the cast having some from of reactive power level.

But it wasn't? In fact Raiden loses the sword multiple times and is forced to fight Armstrong with his bare hands. Armstrong himself even says, 100% guaranteed, that Raiden just hurt him, with his bare hands.
The Muramusa helped to kill Armstrong.
That is true, and we know exactly how it happened, but in regards to Raiden suddenly being able to floor him in multiple ways over the course of the second phase in instances where he always loses the sword beforehand, well, sword aint helping there.
Also Armstrong grabs the Muramusa with his bare hands and disarms Raiden anyway so uh...

 

[Abstractions]

Dude, I think it's more of the fact you're confusing dev intent with your own headcanon? Like the only thing that was 100% intended was that "Armstrong is buff as **** and Raiden cant hurt him".
That's the only thing that is conveyed in Part 2 of Phase 1.

Me reciting the entire scene is headcanon?

Relative maybe, but we talking a difference of 10x.

Where do this come from, I see no sources being presented here, so this is nothing.

He's actually talking about the Raiden loses his sword segments. In regards to the chip segments QTE's, yes, they establish Armstrong's strength, in that Raiden could wail on him all day and it wouldnt amount to much. Which is my point fyi.

My post goes over this.

My main argument is "Armstrong was so tough that Raiden couldn't do any meaningful damage, it's reflected in every single segment once Armstrong stops ******* around that Raiden can't harm him".

Then people shouldn't be using this scene for any part of their argument.

And that "In phase 2 the opposite is true, Raiden can harm him in canonical sequences and is even clarified to have been able to physically hurt Armstrong, far and beyond what he was capable of doing before".

And I provided a reasonable explanation to it, one that isn't some magical strength boost that is nowhere present within any other part of the game and is never hinted towards.

What would be reasonable is an objective explanation that doesn't rely on subjective at best or blatantly false information to explain why Raiden in canonical cinematic events is suddenly flooring Armstrong when the very last thing we saw in phase 1 is his completely inability to do exactly that.

My recitation of the scene is as objective as it can get, if you want us to stop being subjective what you need to do is stop responding altogether, because nothing you are claiming is grounded in fact and rather what you assume is happening, such as:

So, to answer your question, Raiden was being overwhelmed because while yes, he got stronger, Armstrong just went stronger..er

You're unironically arguing that "the dev's intent was to show them being relative in power" in a game that has this ******* scene, I can't

Good thing I saved this gem:

Yours has to be the single, absolute worst argument I have ever, EVER seen, and it's genuinely baffling to me that ANYONE is agreeing, baffling

 

[ShivaShakti]

Yours has to be the single, absolute worst argument I have ever, EVER seen, and it's genuinely baffling to me that ANYONE is agreeing, baffling

This is honestly just childish.

 

[Chariot190]

Me reciting the entire scene is headcanon?

You inserting various interpretations while you do so? Yes. I mean, the fact you had to go into things like "narrative intent" and all that and try to dissect a scene with information not actually presented or shown is kinda exactly that.

Where do this come from, I see no sources being presented here, so this is nothing.

Ripper Mode is a 10x amp? That's like, basic common information readily available to everyone?

Then people shouldn't be using this scene for any part of their argument.

Ain't me mate.

My recitation of the scene is as objective as it can get, if you want us to stop being subjective what you need to do is stop responding altogether, because nothing you are claiming is grounded in fact and rather what you assume is happening, such as:

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
How is Raiden failing to do any meaningful damage with almost two hundred blows to the point he hurts his wrist, followed by him hitting Armstrong in the face so hard he melts his knuckles a bit but failed to do anything but incite a laugh not objective? How is Raiden in phase two doing the very same things but actually hurting him, with it being being confirmed said blows hurt not objective?
That's not only objective, it's the single most undeniable thing in this very thread.

Also why the **** you quoting Twellas when responding to me? You know we can have different opinions and stances on things right?

And I provided a reasonable explanation to it, one that isn't some magical strength boost that is nowhere present within any other part of the game and is never hinted towards.

You didn't, you quite literally didn't, there has yet to be a single objective explanation as to why Raiden failed to do anything much but ends up being able to completely turn the tides and drastically harm him all without outside aid. Also there's literally multiple times throughout the game that do hint toward a strength progression but you do you I guess.

Good thing I saved this gem:

hello kettle.

 

[Chariot190]

Yours has to be the single, absolute worst argument I have ever, EVER seen, and it's genuinely baffling to me that ANYONE is agreeing, baffling

This is honestly just childish.

You acting like I didn't see the first version, kinda lost your right to call him out.

 

[ShivaShakti]

You acting like I didn't see the first version, kinda lost your right to call him out.

A misclick which I edited out

 

[Sir_Ovens]

But it wasn't? In fact Raiden loses the sword multiple times and is forced to fight Armstrong with his bare hands. Armstrong himself even says, 100% guaranteed, that Raiden just hurt him, with his bare hands.
The Muramusa helped to kill Armstrong.
That is true, and we know exactly how it happened, but in regards to Raiden suddenly being able to floor him in multiple ways over the course of the second phase in instances where he always loses the sword beforehand, well, sword aint helping there.
Also Armstrong grabs the Muramusa with his bare hands and disarms Raiden anyway so uh...

Why don't you show the full clip and see that Raiden actually hurt Armstrong because he had no nanomachines sent to his face at that moment. In fact, all the times Raiden hurt Armstrong barehanded in the fight was only done when he did not specifically have nanomachines sent to the area where Raiden hit him. All the other times, Raiden did like 0.5% damage per hit, which is in line with the kind of damage he was doing to Armstrong in cutscenes.

 

[Twellas]

I don't think you should be making such arguments here. How is that contributing anything to the thread? I can easily reverse this by saying yours is the absolute worst argument I have ever seen and it's baffling that 3 other people agreed with you, while 10 people agreeing with the opposing side is proof that their arguments are better than yours.

The difference is that I'm not using "the game somethimes gives you the same base enemies in later stages" as an argument and I'm basing what I'm saying on what we are actually shown, not perceived notions of what the devs might have meant

You don't need to agree with the opposition, and people are free to agree with whoever they find more convincing. I suggest you drop that attitude. It's fine to get heated in a debate, but don't make dumb incendiary remarks.

Oh, but I absolutely respect the opposition when it makes valid arguments and doesn't have sass, just look at my posts with DMUA, I even conceded some stuff, that's not the issue, the issue is when you say blatantly false stuff (Like "you have to assume that he can control his nanomachines" when it's outright stated in the official guide, in a scan that is on Armstrong's profile) and unironically use fodder enemies as an argument, ALONG WITH IGNORING SOME FODDER ENEMIES BECAUSE THEY CONTRADDICT YOUR POINT. And I mean, I'm just an honest guy, I admit that I could have done away with the "baffling" part, but that is unironically the worst argument I've ever seen. Doesn't mean Abstractions is stupid or anything, everyone can make a dumb remark

Yours has to be the single, absolute worst argument I have ever, EVER seen, and it's genuinely baffling to me that ANYONE is agreeing, baffling

This is honestly just childish.

good to know, moving on:

Considering we see Sam's sword not breaking during his fight with Armstrong and the fact that his sword was such a big deal, it got an entire cutscene dedicated to Raiden getting it, is it not obvious that the sword was what helped him beat Armstrong in the end?

No. I've already explained why the sword was "such a big deal" (it wasn't, it's never even mentioned in cutscenes or codec calls, it just pops out and is convenient to Raiden, nothing more) in previous comments.
I mean, it IS true that it helped him beat Armstrong, in the sense that without a blade he wouldn't have been able to Zandatsu his heart, but that doesn't change the fact that he can physically harm him

Contextually it makes the most sense since according to occam's razor, it takes the least amount of steps to reach that conclusion since we never see any mention of anyone in the cast having some from of reactive power level.

Except we are shown in the Sam fight that Armstrong can no-sell the Murasama while being casual, and in Raiden's bossfight, you can see that the Murasama still bounces off of him. And again, Raiden punches and kicks Armstrong in scripted scenes

Good thing I saved this gem:

You know what's the funniest part? My statement is actually grounded in canon, none of yours are. I don't know what's so hard to understand in the phrase "Armstrong was suppressed (undeniable), upon Raiden growing in power to match him, he just used more of his strength"? As I've already explained, We already have proof of Armstrong's dura going down upon being suppressed, what's the deal?

 

[Abstractions]

You didn't, you quite literally didn't, there has yet to be a single objective explanation as to why Raiden failed to do anything much but ends up being able to completely turn the tides and drastically harm him all without outside aid. Also there's literally multiple times throughout the game that do hint toward a strength progression but you do you I guess.

Those sure sound important... for you to not bring any of them here?

 

[AKM sama]

@ShivaShakti It will help if you could summarize which people are in favor of and against the OP. At this point, I can see the arguments have started to loop. I think @Matthew_Schroeder and @CrimsonStarFallen are knowledgeable members who have not commented yet, so I pinged them in case they want to pitch in.

If you guys think I should call some specific staff members that can maybe help evaluate this, tell me and I will ping them too. Because I don't see much coming out of this thread at this point. The arguments have been laid out, and the decision needs to be taken. We have had enough back and forth.

 

[Abstractions]

Yours has to be the single, absolute worst argument I have ever, EVER seen, and it's genuinely baffling to me that ANYONE is agreeing, baffling

Oh, but I absolutely respect the opposition when it makes valid arguments and doesn't have sass

 

[ShivaShakti]

@ShivaShakti It will help if you could summarize which people are in favor of and against the OP. At this point, I can see the arguments have started to loop. I think @Matthew_Schroeder and @CrimsonStarFallen are knowledgeable members who have not commented yet, so I pinged them in case they want to pitch in.

If you guys think I should call some specific staff members that can maybe help evaluate this, tell me and I will ping them too. Because I don't see much coming out of this thread at this point. The arguments have been laid, and the decision needs to be taken. We have had enough back and forth.

The people who agree and disagree are in the OP. Its currently 9 (10 if Ovens agrees too) against 5 who disagree.

 

[Twellas]

Why don't you show the full clip and see that Raiden actually hurt Armstrong because he had no nanomachines sent to his face at that moment. In fact, all the times Raiden hurt Armstrong barehanded in the fight was only done when he did not specifically have nanomachines sent to the area where Raiden hit him. All the other times, Raiden did like 0.5% damage per hit, which is in like with the kind of damage he was doing to Armstrong in cutscenes.

bro, you straight up didn't read half of the thread, did you? Can you guys PLEASE read the thread before making posts? i'm not even asking in a smug way, It's a genuine request

The nanomachines are automatic, that's their whole point, and his body not being blackened is a mere gameplay limitation. Here's Raiden punching a section of body that is already black. Also, every time Raiden punches him, you see sparks and hear the sound of metal clashing

 

[Chariot190]

Why don't you show the full clip and see that Raiden actually hurt Armstrong because he had no nanomachines sent to his face at that moment. In fact, all the times Raiden hurt Armstrong barehanded in the fight was only done when he did not specifically have nanomachines sent to the area where Raiden hit him. All the other times, Raiden did like 0.5% damage per hit, which is in like with the kind of damage he was doing to Armstrong in cutscenes.

I did? Multiple times.
That's literally not true though? Also uh, you do know that's not how it works right? Ignoring that in multiple scenes we literally see nano debris get launched on impact regardless like with the kick (and the very blatant sound of something being broken, and given Armstrong is hardened internally...).
Not even true, given in those scenes Raiden does hit him in hardened parts at various points (at least two side jabs tagged him there), and that's without getting into the fact the nano's harden him internally as well even if he's not visually hardened on the surface so moot point as shown against Sam.
Better yet, that's ignoring that's literally not how his nano's work, Armstrong is entirely 100% claytronics and has no say in the nano's defending, his whole body is nano's, and if the nano's werent defending him, he'd have ******* died because he's a normal human otherwise.
And like 0.5%? Not actually true, still better then the 0 to 0.1% in phase one and even then, you realize the same holds true for Muramusa right?
I could go on really but all of this has been commented on like, a hundred posts ago?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Can I also just say Armstrong did not dent Raiden one bit throughout the fight? Like besides him ripping out Raiden's visor (which is an LS feat) Raiden was not in any way harmed, just exhausted. Even after getting punched though the ground with a really powerful attack after Armstrong decided to take the fight seriously, he was still completely fine.

Also please show me where it was ever stated not making where Raiden struck black was a gameplay limitation? And I'm asking about quick time events, which would not be limited by gameplay. All quick time events show Raiden attacking non-nanomachined parts of Armstrong. Raiden punching Armstrong also has no bleed effects, but him slashing Armstrong does. This is very intentional. Raiden still can't hurt Armstrong without the sword.

Also if Armstrong's nanomachines are passive, Sam would never have been able to cut Armstrong's arm off. They clearly don't activate everywhere instantly. I can link every cutscene where we don't see the black surface whenever Raiden physically harms Armstrong.

 

[Chariot190]

Those sure sound important... for you to not bring any of them here?

What the **** I ******* pointed them out and even ******* explicitly noted that they were examples above.

 

[ShivaShakti]

What the **** I ******* pointed them out and even ******* explicitly noted that they were examples above.

Calm down and keep the aggression to a minimum.

 

[Abstractions]

What the **** I ******* pointed them out and even ******* explicitly noted that they were examples above.

I don't think those are compelling enough because they can be interpreted in another way, sorry.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Here's Raiden punching a section of body that is already black.

Both times he's hitting Armstrong's head. Both times they're not black. And we know his whole head can be black because we literally see it before.

 

[Chariot190]

Can I also just say Armstrong did not dent Raiden one bit throughout the fight? Like besides him ripping out Raiden's visor (which is an LS feat) Raiden was not in any way harmed, just exhausted. Even after getting punched though the ground with a really powerful attack after Armstrong decided to take the fight seriously, he was still completely fine.

Armstrong throws a punch and it doesnt even hit him fully and it's enough to make his chin glow red hot orange. And his AP doesnt even matter, Armstrong could be human level AP, that doesnt effect that Raiden went from being unable to harm to being able to harm him physically.
Also Raiden took 3 minutes to struggle back to his feet, that's not exactly "fine".

Also please show me where it was ever stated not making where Raiden struck black was a gameplay limitation? And I'm asking about quick time events, which would not be limited by gameplay. All quick time events show Raiden attacking non-nanomachined parts of Armstrong. Raiden punching Armstrong also has no bleed effects, but him slashing Armstrong does. This is very intentional. Raiden still can't hurt Armstrong without the sword.

Literally take place in game engine, not pre-rendered so uh...
Also that's false, go frame by frame, Raiden actually smacks him a few times in hardened parts and does damage.
I mean, no shit? Being slashed with a sword is gonna make one bleed, being punched doesnt instantly make the point of impact spew blood? Like what? You want Raiden to punch holes in him like this?
Raiden literally hurts him without the sword, Armstrong literally SAYS THAT HE DOES.
You can not be serious right now.

Also if Armstrong's nanomachines are passive, Sam would never have been able to cut Armstrong's arm off. They clearly don't activate everywhere instantly. I can link every cutscene where we don't see the black surface whenever Raiden physically harms Armstrong.

Not what I said, and Sam cut his arm off by simply being to fast on the draw. They're still automatic, it's outright stated to be automatic by Dok. And They activate automatically on impact wherever the place is hit or needed, Raiden punching Armstrong in the ribs ten times is far and beyond enough time for them to take action. I mean, you'd be wrong and I could link, and have even done so, examples where the opposite of what you're saying occurred so...
Also they harden internally, even when the surface level isnt black, like, Ovens come the **** on?

We're literally going over shit we've already went through, bring something new please.

 

[Twellas]

Can I also just say Armstrong did not dent Raiden one bit throughout the fight? Like besides him ripping out Raiden's visor (which is an LS feat) Raiden was not in any way harmed, just exhausted. Even after getting punched though the ground with a really powerful attack after Armstrong decided to take the fight seriously, he was still completely fine.

I-I... Did you look at Raiden's profile? Did you see his stamina section? Did you see the statement from Dok that "Armstrong could kill Raiden with one punch"?

Also please show me where it was ever stated not making where Raiden struck black was a gameplay limitation? And I'm asking about quick time events, which would not be limited by gameplay. All quick time events show Raiden attacking non-nanomachined parts of Armstrong. Raiden punching Armstrong also has no bleed effects, but him slashing Armstrong does. This is very intentional. Raiden still can't hurt Armstrong without the sword.

BRo I LITERALLY POSTED SCENES OF RAIDEN PUNCHING ARMSTRONG ON BLACKENED PARTS COME ON NOW

Also if Armstrong's nanomachines are passive, Sam would never have been able to cut Armstrong's arm off. They clearly don't activate everywhere instantly. I can link every cutscene where we don't see the black surface whenever Raiden physically harms Armstrong.

Passive doesn't equal instantaneous, they are AUTOMATIC, which is different. Sam outsped them with an attack that is more than twice as fast as himself

At this point you guys are literally arguing game graphics over canon. Armstrong's nanomachines work automatically, it's their WHOLE POINT. There's no canonical reason for the automatic function to not work, and even if it didn't, Armstrong can still control them with his will and he'd have no reason to do so. Armstrong's body not always blackening is clearly something that contraddicts the canon, contraddicts the characters and, ON TOP OF THAT, IT'S IRRELEVANT, BECAUSE WE SEE RAIDEN PUNCH HIM ON A BLACKENED PART AND IT DOES JUST AS MUCH DAMAGE AS WHEN HE PUNCHES NON-BLACK PARTS

 

[Chariot190]

I don't think those are compelling enough because they can be interpreted in another way, sorry.

And? Keyword, interpreted, the fact that it has to be interpreted and isnt completely objective already means your statement of there being absolutely nothing elsewhere in the game that suggests anything in anyway whatsoever at all is blatantly false.

 

[Chariot190]

Both times he's hitting Armstrong's head. Both times they're not black. And we know his whole head can be black because we literally see it before.

That's a prerendered cutscene tho?

Calm down and keep the aggression to a minimum.

Why because I said ****? Aint anything new here. Hell I can probably get people to vouch.

 

[Twellas]

Both times he's hitting Armstrong's head. Both times they're not black. And we know his whole head can be black because we literally see it before.

n-no? just, literally no? You can clearly see he's punching him across the chest?

 

[AKM sama]

Guys, stop using all caps and aggression. I will either close this thread for a few minutes or thread ban some of the people for a few minutes. Be civil. Thanks.

 

[Abstractions]

And? Keyword, interpreted, the fact that it has to be interpreted and isnt completely objective already means your statement of there being absolutely nothing elsewhere in the game that suggests anything in anyway whatsoever at all is blatantly false.

But your interpretation is objective? What did I just say about not claiming that because that's also not true?

You cannot claim something is objective fact when evidently it isn't, otherwise this argument wouldn't be happening, so I suggest dropping stuff like this as it is filler.

 

[Chariot190]

But your interpretation is objective? What did I just say about not claiming that because that's also not true?

Are you just ******* with me now?
In the very post I brought up said examples, I said they were open to interpretation, but them being open to interpretation also means that at best, you completely disregarding them is outright wrong and as such your blatant and explicit statement worded in a objective manner to how there is not a single thing anywhere in the media that even hints towards a progression of power elsewhere is blatantly false and dishonest.

This is different then me saying "Raiden could hurt Armstrong but in phase 2 he did". Which is what i said was objective, which it is, it happened.

You're twisting two completely different subjects and points, not even from the same chapter of the game. to be me somehow saying they're both objective when I clarified exactly what was and wasn't objective? I mean, Abstractions, weren't you complaining about people supposedly not reading your posts? This seems a bit hypocritical if you ask me.

You cannot claim something is objective fact when evidently it isn't, otherwise this argument wouldn't be happening, so I suggest dropping stuff like this as it is filler.

No, that at least still screams objective to me. You're just confusing (hopefully it's confusing and not intentional), two completely different topics.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Doktor after saying Armstrong could kill Raiden with a single punch goes on to admit he has no idea what Armstrong's power is. That statement is hyperbole at best.

Also, unlike Thor in Infinity War, Raiden went for the head. Both these shots are mere frames apart. I'll let everyone else judge for themselves.

And just so everyone understands what I mean by "harm" I mean if Raiden doesn't physically dent (his metal body isn't bent in any way), Armstrong is not harming him. Him struggling to get up is a stamina thing. No matter how tough I am, if my brain gets shook around enough, I too would stagger. Which seems to be the case given all the headshots Raiden was getting.

On the other end of the spectrum, Raiden does not harm Armstrong at all without Murasama. And I mean genuinely harm. Getting hit by Raiden merely inconveniences Armstrong and him saying it hurts can again be chalked up to no nanomachines on his face at the point of impact.

 

[Abstractions]

[Inflammatory remark]?
In the very post I brought up said examples, I said they were open to interpretation, but them being open to interpretation also means that at best, you completely disregarding them is outright wrong and as such your blatant and explicit statement worded in a objective manner to how there is not a single thing anywhere in the media that even hints towards a progression of power elsewhere is blatantly false and dishonest.

I made a very clear comment on how narratively it can be interpreted that the game plateaus in strength at the level of the WoDs, which takes no assumptions to make, it's in my very first post. You claiming I'm acting dishonestly comes from your own opinion and isn't based in fact.

This is different then me saying "Raiden could hurt Armstrong but in phase 2 he did". Which is what i said was objective, which it is, it happened.

And I offered up a clear explanation to you as to why that could be instead of some magical strength increase after being pummeled, which you were free to not accept, just as much as me not accepting the claim of RPL.

You're twisting two completely different subjects and points, not even from the same chapter of the game. to be me somehow saying they're both objective when I clarified exactly what was and wasn't objective? I mean, Abstractions, weren't you complaining about people supposedly not reading your posts? This seems a bit hypocritical if you ask me.

It is as if those two things can tie in together to establish a larger point? Are you reading what I'm sending you?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

No, that at least still screams objective to me. You're just confusing (hopefully it's confusing and not intentional), two completely different topics.

Bruh, the first scan has Armstrong block his chin (the point of impact) with nanomachines. The second one has Raiden punching him in the face, a region free of nanomachines.

Even if you choose to ignore me, "That one hurt." is a very weak argument to use when

1) It could have been hyperbole

2) Raiden threw Armstrong away with that punch, something he had demonstrably done before

 

[Chariot190]

On the other end of the spectrum, Raiden does not harm Armstrong at all without Murasama. And I mean genuinely harm. Getting hit by Raiden merely inconveniences Armstrong and him saying it hurts can again be chalked up to no nanomachines on his face at the point of impact.

Again, you're completely ignoring everything we know about nano's the fact Armstrong is a literal walking human claytronic human, he can harden internally and it happens automatically, stated explicitly, multiple times. Also throat chop.
Again, you're so hung up on "well armstrong wasnt blackened in certain spots" and completely ignoring how they work, they work even when not visually indicated on a surface level, automaticity, the vast amount of sparks and crunching sfx and the fact Armstrong would literally die if not protected because he's a 9-C human otherwise.

 

[Twellas]

Raiden does not harm Armstrong at all without Murasama. And I mean genuinely harm. Getting hit by Raiden merely inconveniences Armstrong and him saying it hurts can again be chalked up to no nanomachines on his face at the point of impact.

And after this, you know what? I'm done, I'm just done, you all go and do whatever the **** you want to the profile, you clearly don't care about what's in the actual game and would rather go on bullshit meta tangents, make shit up, cling on clear non-factors, misinterpret scenes and put your own, bullshit interpretation of the story over what's clearly shown in-game.

Hope Weekly is happy for Grievous's W tho

 

[Chariot190]

Bruh, the first scan has Armstrong block his chin (the point of impact) with nanomachines. The second one has Raiden punching him in the face, a region free of nanomachines.

Thank you prerendered cutscenes.

 

[Chariot190]

I made a very clear comment on how narratively it can be interpreted that the game plateaus in strength at the level of the WoDs, which takes no assumptions to make, it's in my very first post. You claiming I'm acting dishonestly comes from your own opinion and isn't based in fact.

Uh cool? Wasn't talking about WOD's ranking though?

And I offered up a clear explanation to you as to why that could be instead of some magical strength increase after being pummeled, which you were free to not accept, just as much as me not accepting the claim of RPL.

Literally don't care about RPL, AD or whatever we want to call it, I'm just not going to sit here and pretend Raiden couldnt hurt Armstrong and then make up excuses for as to why he could afterward. Also you didn't, at least not an objective one that doesn't rely on some pretty sus things.

It is as if those two things can tie in together to establish a larger point? Are you reading what I'm sending you?

Same to you. How difficult is to grasp that one part is objective, I claimed it was objective, and stand by it, but that also doesnt mean this other point, simply stated as some support, and a rebuttal to your claim that absolutely nothing exists in that media anywhere at all that can be used to lead credence to the objective point, somehow not being subjective?
Like, this isn't how it works, you know this, I know this, everyone knows this, and I even specified far above.

 

[AKM sama]

And after this, you know what? I'm done, I'm just done, you all go and do whatever the **** you want to the profile, you clearly don't care about what's in the actual game and would rather go on bullshit meta tangents, make shit up, cling on clear non-factors, misinterpret scenes and put your own, bullshit interpretation of the story over what's clearly shown in-game.

Maybe try to understand that others may differ from your opinion and your interpretation doesn't always have to be objectively correct. This is something that is in the core of vs debating, but surprisingly still many people get mad over it.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Maybe try to understand that others may differ from your opinion and your interpretation doesn't always have to be correct. This is something that is in the core of vs debating, but surprisingly still many people get mad over it.

He already left the wiki (see the message on his profile), no need to respond to him right now

 

[Chariot190]

Maybe try to understand that others may differ from your opinion and your interpretation doesn't always have to be objectively correct. This is something that is in the core of vs debating, but surprisingly still many people get mad over it.

Not the issue, the issue is even the objective facts are twisted and the things that ARE open to interpretation are being used as if they're the objective facts.
Also a few hundred posts about things that shouldnt even be a factor beyond the first few posts like Muramusa still being brought up for some reason.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

he's a 9-C human otherwise.

Honestly where was this when we decided to make every character in Metal Gear 8-B? Another thread I suppose.