Another thing to note is the same fodder are still being presented to you all the way up to the Armstrong fight, the game isn't considering you getting drastically stronger throughout the entirety of the game and claiming so is based entirely in one's subjective opinion, not fact.
You mean the cyborgs that were fodderized by characters like Sundowner? Also you really just use the ol Goomba argument? Hell, there's cutscenes where end game enemies literally get one shot by notable characters as if they were nothing. Hell, in the Excelsus fight Gekko units get one shot by the MG so it's even reflected by bosses in gameplay even.
Mm, not indicative of a full-fledged strength increase, some of the examples show Armstrong when he's only attempting recruit Jack as an argument which doesn't work, he's holding back there.
What in the actual **** are you talking about? Every single example given where Raiden harms him is AFTER Armstrong starts going all out. **** you're outright arguing against yourself here as Raiden fails to hurt him when Armstrong is HOLDING BACK in your own words let alone when he's actively trying to put Raiden in the ground.
You cannot claim something is objective fact when evidently it isn't, otherwise this argument wouldn't be happening, so I suggest dropping stuff like this as it is filler.
No offense, but I can and will claim something as objective fact,
Here's a few examples, at least, when it is objective.
See all those? Happens after Armstrong goes serious, happens without RM, happens canonically in intended and purposeful QTE's with scripted dialogue, happens without the Muramusa.
It is a objective fact that Raiden is harming Armstrong in every single one of those instances, you may not like it, you may even disagree and feel the need to argue it, but regardless of what you feel it is an absolute objective fact that Raiden is physically harming Armstrong in those scenes as well as beyond those examples. You can not sit here and use the excuse of "well if it was legit it wouldn't be argued" as if that's an actual argument, because it isn't, at best this argument is simply calling the kettle black, but I wouldn't even go that far.
So yes, I'm claiming something is an objective fact, at least here, Raiden physically hurt Armstrong without the aid of Muramusa, Ripper Mode or Armstrong's nanomachines arbitrarily getting weaker, because that's quite literally what happened. This is objective, you can't reasonably say Armstrong wasn't hurt in those events. The rest of the argument could enter the realm of subjectivity but as far as him actually harming him in phase 2? That's as objective as it gets.
I honestly don't believe we are all watching the same scene, and not everyone seems to be on page with what's actually happening.
Feeling's mutual. And given how much weird contradictions and back forth between your claims you made below, I'm not sure if even you're on the same page as yourself as odd as that sounds. But then again, chances are we aren't watching the same scene given I'm explicitly taking about the second phase in 99% of my posts and you went on to make an attempt at explaining phase 1, so yes, probably two different scenes, if you meant to respond to twellas I could understand the confusion but you quoted my in particular so...
Armstrong starts off the engagement by charging at an obviously unprepared Raiden who inquires "What the hell are you thinking?" before being attacked, even though he's confused Raiden is still well and capable of dodging punches from Armstrong and there's nothing indicating a major gap here, especially since Raiden hasn't officially engaged yet.
Yes, Raiden holds the speed advantage, Dok himself says so, Dok also says that Raiden is nowhere near as strong or durable as Armstrong and all he can do is dodge, he even speculates that Armstrong could likely kill Raiden in one punch (presumably a serious punch). This has even been linked in this very thread. Moot point, Raiden is stated to be faster and can dodge but also stated to be much weaker. And yes, Raiden hasn't engaged yet, but when he does he does very little, and then Armstrong starts taking it a bit seriously and Raiden is powerless.
When we reach "Why don't you stick around and find out?", Raiden is dealing small percentages with his strikes, which in turn leads into "Nice knife.". Raiden gets floored with a punch but gets back up. (This is where the start of the "AP increase through RPL" argument begins)
Not really, at least not for me, I'm almost entirely talking about Phase two where Raiden is shown makig Armstrong eat dirt physically rather then the other way. And yes, Raiden is dealing small percentage damages with his punches, between 0 to 0.1% per blow, and like 0.3/0.4% with his sword.
Raiden is given his first real chance to block one of Armstrong's punches because he is finally prepared for the fight, in which he blocks, and contends with a casual Armstrong with a few strikes, cool. But what this has done is establish them on mostly equal terms, and isn't indicative of an actual strength increase unless you deliberately look for it, and it only takes a moment later to see why.
Are you for real? Like actually, you literally just said yourself "a casual Armstrong", he's suppressed, when he starts putting in a bit more effort, Raiden gets humiliated and can't even hurt him five seconds later, and it's made even worse given Raiden actively says he's trying to kill Armstrong with the following blows that result in doing no damage, in a cutscene no less. I can't tell if you're joking or just forgot what happens immediately afterwards. Raiden is literally stated to be nowhere near Armstrong's physical equal in codecs at that point, Armstrong hilariously overwhelms him, floors him, and Raiden can physically do no real damage.
Armstrong "Has a dream." and proceeds to continue to grapple and overpower the supposedly catching up Raiden, pulling apart the very arms that were just a second ago holding him back and headbutting him until he is brought to his knees. Raiden is clearly winded by all of this, mind you. If Raiden was truly the one gaining the upper hand here, why is he being overwhelmed? Is the question I ask specifically for this instance here.
I'd ask the same, why the are you bringing up a part when Raiden is very clearly not even remotely on par with Armstrong yet as a counter to when Raiden is shown flooring Armstrong later on? Like, yes, Raiden starts getting his shit kicked in and made into a fool when Armstrong starts making even a slight bit of effort, directly contradicting any notion of them being even slight equal, at that point, as not only is it stated in game for that to not be the case in phase 1, but Armstrong was holding back and not making an effort when Raiden initially landed a few blows because Armstrong was trying to recruit him like he did Sam. You've basically confirmed my point, Raiden was initially much weaker then Armstrong. Though even then, you could argue that Raiden went from being unable to contend with a casual Armstrong to being able to maybe contend with him, but unable to contend with Armstrong who's starting to put in effort based upon the middle sequence. I myself am sticking with the phase 2 stuff but I can see why others may think otherwise.
After Raiden is floored and we reach "You're batshit insane!" Raiden catches Armstrong off-guard and throws him, this is fine, but not evidence of any boost as Armstrong simply wasn't prepared. Raiden states "...and now I'll take yours." and we are thrown into the next portion of the fight, however, Raiden has returned to dealing small portions of damage to Armstrong with no noticeable increase, even after a barrage of punches he is still standing at 91.1% health, in which we run into the next issue with the idea of an AP increase.
At this point you're literally just describing how Raiden is weaker then Armstrong at this point, which is my point. Yes, in phase one, Raiden is dealing miniscule damage, Armstrong has hyperarmor, and it's followed by a blatant example of Armstrong laughing off Raiden's best, x100. This, is exactly what I've been saying, Raiden is weaker and also can't hurt Armstrong at all.
If Armstrong was previously knocked off his feet before, with what was a suggested strength increase, why is he not knocked off his feet even later with what was a vast amount of strikes by comparison? The answer is that there isn't a strength increase here, and claiming so is contradicted directly by the media presented. This is then furthered by "What did I just say?"
Idk, I'm not arguing for Raiden to have increased in strength at that point really, at least not to the point of surpassing him, I'm more leaning on the blatant examples in phase two compared to end of phase one to where Raiden demonstrably skyrockets in strength I quite literally sent that scene three times already as evidence to Raiden being unable to harm Armstrong, what are you even attempting to argue here? Also here's the start of your contradictory claims, you're claiming that Armstrong isn't even budged by numerous strikes later when he starts getting serious, even though a bit down you basically try and say that Raiden even before that hurt him but he really didnt, while also ignoring the blatant example of Armstrong saying Raiden can't hurt him and then clarifying again by saying "What did I just say?" after being slammed in the face.
Now, Raiden suffers a barrage of punches, but is still able to return to his feet as he did prior, this shows that Armstrong is not vastly stronger than Raiden, just much more durable. Equipped with Murasama, a better sword and heightened resolve, Raiden engages Armstrong for the last time, with the actual narrative objective now to kill him as control is not wrestled out of the player's hands again.
Yeah, he does return to his feet, after almost 3 minutes of struggling to stand, only being allowed to do so because Armstrong allowed him to stand while he listened to Blade Wolf. Armstrong's AP ironically doesn't matter (even though it's conformed he's much, much stronger), all that matters is he's much, much more durable, and that Raiden went from being unable to actually really hurt him to being able to floor him. as if you didn't just describe the part of the fight where Armstrong was able to shrug off all of Raiden's attacks as if they were at best a minor nuisance.
Muramusa does **** all by itself, we know from Sam that it cant do anything by itself. Better yet, you ignore completely the fact that Raiden quite literally HARMS Armstrong WITHOUT the sword, the sword is a literal nonfactor to the argument because the sword doesnt explain how Raiden's punches did like 0.1% in scripted QTE's and zero damage and laughed off in a cutscene but by the second half of the fight Raiden those very same punches are doing like 10-20x more damage and full bodied blows are doing like 10-20% per hit in the QTE's and cutscenes, without the sword being used anywhere at all within the vicinity pf those blows. And heightened resolve? Yeah sure, Raiden has a more defined goal here, that doesn't somehow magically make him physically able to hurt the dude who a minute prior was laughing off Raiden's still serious blows. And narrative control not being wrestled out of the player's hand's again? Actual nonargument, especially when the second half of the fight is littered with QTE's and scripted sequences.
All arguments up until this point in the fight for RPL are relatively null, as it can be discarded with something as simple as the proper knowledge of the events that transpired.
You quite literally left out half the fight and only bothered to explain what everyone already knew, in that Armstrong could shrug off Raiden's attacks in phase 1, and then acted like the Muramasa was why Raiden's physical blows are now able to hurt Armstrong even when the muramusa is literally tossed to the side and Raiden is forced to go at it with his bare fists. Honestly, my retort to this is, same, simply actually paying attention to the dialogue, gameplay segments and cutscenes tells us Raiden is powerless but in phase 2 that's very blatantly and confirmed not the case.
Also you outright ignored several mate.
Firstly, I want to preface this by saying perhaps Armstrong isn't as durable as you build him up to be.
Don't know about that mate, 180+ blows and then some being chuckled at.
During the very first engagement of "lining your own pockets" Armstrong very clearly wasn't unfazed as he presents himself to be, he's tripped by Raiden's attack and whipping his mouth, he's not truly harmed but still relatively faxed by Raiden's strikes. My point being here is that while Armstrong is presenting himself as invincible, he truly isn't and we know this, even with what little damage Raiden is doing.
Really? Because Armstrong is clearly completely unharmed by Raiden, and what little damage Raiden can do is walked off. He's tripped up? You mean pushed back slightly? And he's whipping his mouth, sure, but he's also not at all actually hurt by it, and for arguments sake, lets say it did hurt him even if barely, barely is drastically less then what Raiden ends up doing later where he's actively making Armstrong eat dirt in single blows. And Armstrong presenting himself? It's not just him mate, Dok and Raiden both says he's basically invincible at that point and there's no way in hell they could beat him no matter what they do, and it's not even them, the game itself depicts it that way in gameplay, or like, the dozen interactions past that point. And given at the end of the sequence Armstrong is literally laughing off Raiden's attempts at going balls to the wall on him, it feels to me like you're purposely underselling him or taking one example that didn't actually hurt him beyond a "heh". Not that it would even matter, it's absolutely undeniable Raiden went from doing fractions of a percent of damage with multiple blows to doing loads of damage and inciting actual responses from Armstrong like pain and direct confirmation, it doesn't even matter how durable Armstrong is, all that matters is if Raiden got stronger comparatively, which he demonstrably did.
This isn't really my main point, but I want you to understand that there is an express narrative and development purpose for how the fight is presented:
There is yes, which is why I'm wondering why half of what you just said basically amounts to "Armstrong went easy on Raiden, Armstrong went a little harder on him and floored him, with it being reiterated numerous times that Raiden can not hurt him. This is supported by two gameplay segments were raiden can't do any meaningful damage to hurt a hyperarmor Armstrong followed by QTE's where Raiden goes all out and punches him numerous times and failing to do anything but make him shrug. A cutscene follows where Armstrong says he can't be hurt by Raiden, and Raiden then again tries to hurt him and completely fails and gets laughed at".
Like yes, there is a narrative here, and it says Raiden can't hurt Armstrong and he's much weaker. You're actually twisting it beyond belief here Abstraction.
Think about how games will present characters with multiple phases, checkpoints, if you will. They want you to get a taste of the fight before truly allowing you to complete it, they do this by stopping you at certain points of the fight to allow for more exposition or completely halt your damage output to allow for a transition, this isn't to say a character is unharmable, just that the developer doesn't want you to kill them yet. Which is exactly what we are presented with here.
Uh yeah? For one trying to use the narrative as a reasoning you're acting like the QTE's, cutscenes and basically everything that says Raiden couldn't do jack shit to Armstrong and everything bounced off or did so little damage that Armstrong wasn't the least bit phased by him don't exist.
They give you the opportunity to test Armstrong twice, but are doing this narratively because they want to establish his strength and durability while also providing exposition, and it does this by reducing the damage you deal to Armstrong and cutting into more dialogue.
Yes, they want to establish his strength and durability, that is quite literally the point, it is established, not ONLY in gameplay but even the following cutscene that
Raiden can not hurt Armstrong. They reduce the damage because he quite literally CAN NOT HARM HIM at that point, as stated by every single character in play. And then shown in the cutscenes where Raiden throws like a hundred punches and does like 5%, and then in a rendered cutscene where Raiden punches him square in the jaw and Armstrong just laughs and says Raiden can't hurt him. This isn't some gameplay trick, Raiden quite literally can't do any real damage to him, **** Raiden even strains his wrist punching Armstrong and it does nothing. So yes, narratively, it is established Armstrong is so durable that Raiden can't hurt him even while trying his best, this is reflected in both the gameplay, character's statements, codecs and QTE's, all explicitly made to show Armstrong's durability>>>>>Raiden. It cuts into more dialogue, some of which includes "You can't hurt me" and Raiden asking why he cant hurt him.
Now when dialogue is officially exhausted and you are finally given complete control to finish the fight, you appear to be doing more damage. This here is what's giving you the illusion that there's a strength boost at play, which you come to the conclusion with wrongly, as the narrative presented outside of the gameplay has already shown. But you may say:
I honestly truly and fully can't believe you're resorting to an argument that basically amounts to "raiden not doing much damage in phase 1 is just a trick and raiden doing more damage in the second phase is just because of the dev's wanting you to beat him now", as if absolutely everything from the damage he takes, the QTE's, his reactions and statements, the other character's reactions and statements, all dont explicitly say that Raiden couldn't hurt him in phase 1 no matter what he did. Are we even looking at the same narrative? You're literally spitting on said narrative here and yet trying to use it as your justification.
Perhaps the developer thought it would be unfair to force you to finish the fight under design they put in place just for lore? The point was to establish Armstrong's strength before you are allowed to fight him for real, they aren't going to force you to chip him with .5% every strike just to keep consistent with that as it has already served its purpose.
Yes, it was meant to show his strength, it showed that Armstrong could fold Raiden, and that Raiden physically couldnt do any real damage no matter how hard he tried. Like yes, that is what the first phase was designed to do, and they did exactly that. The part you're ignoring is that in phase 2 Raiden can harm Armstrong, not just in the gameplay, but in cutscenes and QTE's, which even elicit dialogue like Armstrong literally saying THAT ONE HURT after getting punched in the face so hard he loses like 20% of his HP by Raiden's bare raw fist unaided by anything. This isn't just a gameplay thing, it's a canonical thing that happened and dealt far more damage opposed to the piss weak blows comparatively Raiden was tossing prior.
You may disagree and you are fully free to, but narratively the game doesn't present Raiden as getting stronger all the way up to the end.
"Narratively", is the new buzzword now? Ignoring that narratively, and even visually, demonstrably and clarified even, that Raiden was doing basically nothing to flooring him, with his bare hands. If a character fails to hurt a character but then becomes able to hurt said character who could facetank everything tossed at him like nothing, with no outside interference or factors, that's the character going from weak to strong, how it happened I don't give a ****, all I know is that Raiden went from being hilariously inable to hurt him to flooring him and Muramusa, RM and nano's weakening ain't why. Also even then, there's definitely some things earlier in the game that's at best, makes your claim open to interpretation at best and false at worst.
Frankly I believe Armstrong's durability is exaggerated because him and Raiden are presented on fairly equal terms, just that Armstrong has nanomachines that mitigate harm done to him, and I don't need to make assumptions with that as it's what is put right in front of me.
You're contradicting yourself here, you've gone on record, in this very post, saying that Raiden couldn't really do shit to Armstrong in the first half. Is it because of his nanomachines? I mean, obviously? Without them he's just a buff peak human, he'd explode into paste with them. Do the nano's mitigate harm? Yes, they do, by hardening in response to attacks, making him durable enough to withstand, which is so durable, that in the first half of the fight, Raiden could do barely anything if at all. You don't need to make assumptions about the nano's, but if you truly believe that Armstrong and Raiden were on equal terms, you're actually explicitly wrong and the game even outright tells you and shows you as much, it even goes out of it's way to say the ONLY thing Raiden had over Armstrong was speed and all he could really do is dodge. **** at one point Armstrong just stands there and lets Raiden throw like a hundred punches at him in a scripted QTE cutscene and Armstrong doesn't even budge, and the total amount barely do 5%.
I will not be responding to anything that turns this into a circular debate, and responding with your own subjective view on the events doesn't serve to debunk what I say, as it is your interpretation of events versus mine, and I simply find mine more sensible.
And this is where I have issue with the whole "this is subjective" and "this is my view", sure I can see where a few of your claims can enter the realm of subjectivity, but a few of the things you say come off as blatant lying to me, and I say lying, because it's clear you at least made an attempt to watch the links so it's not like you don't know at least surface level information. I can reasonably see how some of the things you stated are even something you truly believe given a good chunk of what you said is contradicted by other things of what you said, on top of that there's you trying to paint a picture of the game saying Armstrong was never really that much above Raiden and Raiden actually could hurt him when that's so hilariously blatantly false that it unironically feels like I'm being punked, and then trying to say something like "the dev's simply lowered your damage in phase one because they didnt want you doing loads of damage", as if that mattered, see Sundowner, and bosses don't even die when hitting one HP, you always have to enter a scripted cinematic sequence no matter the HP and at HP checkpoints.
Also, I don't know if you noticed this while typing it out but you contradicted yourself multiple times. For example.
You say that Armstrong and Raiden were always on equal grounds but also say things like the moment Armstrong made an effort he "proceeds to continue to grapple and overpower the supposedly catching up Raiden, pulling apart the very arms that were just a second ago holding him back and headbutting him until he is brought to his knees. Raiden is clearly winded by all of this".
You also explicitly say at points that Raiden failed to do anything to Armstrong after he actually tries and even defended Armstrong being tossed while offguard, but also try and say that Armstrong isnt actually that durable and Raiden could hurt him in a scene prior to when Armstrong got serious, ignoring you also said Armstrong is much, much more durable then Raiden.
And that's not even a quarter of it. Your points can't coexist, you have varying contradictory claims and points.
Your entire post is filled with contradictory claims Abstraction, like, did you even proof read? Actual question because for every argument you gave, you also gave one that contradicts the very claims you're trying to make.
Like come on.
Now on to actual clips because I'm starting to think people aren't opening the links I keep linking. Also, the clips have audio and sound when opened if anyone needs them (couldn't figure out how to embed videos on the forum).
End of phase 1. Armstrong is starting to grow tired of Jack and his bullshit, he lets Jack go all out and try to kill him. Raiden proceeds to pummel Armstrong, it does basically nothing. Raiden tries again, putting in so much effort that the following cutscene opens up with him visibly having a strained wrist.
A hundred direct blows to Armstrong does nothing but slightly inconvenience him, Armstrong stands there and takes it to show Raiden that even if he wails on him as hard as he can, he can't hurt him much if at all, Armstrong just shrugs it off. And mind you, given I popped the video into a editor to clip it, I went frame by frame as well, Raiden throws, like 180 punches there, give or take. In a scripted cinematic sequence it takes Raiden almost 200 blows to do minimal damage and for Armstrong to quite literally shrug it off and chuckle at how pathetic Raiden is.
Immediately following that, Jack shakes his hand, likely due to the fact he just punched a stone wall over a hundred times, and asks in anger why Armstrong won't die (Second time Raiden basically said he was trying to kill, the first time being Raiden literally saying it's time to kill him). Armstrong laughs at him, and says the meme. States his nano's harden, whatever we all know the rest, and then says, that Jack can not hurt him, plain as day, and given Raiden just punched him how many times and failed to do much at all and even yells in anger at his inability to hurt, well Armstrong, he ain't wrong.
Second part because clipping super long scenes doesnt work.
Armstrong says "You can't hurt me", Raiden then charges at him and punches him square in the face while yelling. Armstrong
laughs at him, isn't phased at all and says "What did I just say", aka Raiden just punched him in the face full force and didn't hurt him. Then Raiden gets knocked on his ass and is stunned. Last bit doesnt really matter, all that matters is that Raiden couldnt hurt him.
So given Armstrong says "You can't hurt me", right after Jack pummels him and fails to actually hurt him and then is followed by a punch directly toe the fact that is laughed off with Armstrong clarifying once again that Jack can not hurt him. Needless to say, Jack can not hurt him.
Mind you, all these three are in a row, there's nothing cut out between any of these three clips and it's the very end of phase 1. It is made exceptionally clear that Raiden is fully incapable of doing **** all to Armstrong physically, the most he can do is minimal negligible damage while Armstrong literally stands there and takes it, and it's laughed off. (Better yet, we're even given a hp bar to show just how little it's doing, it will
always be much, much less then the very same attacks in the second half of the fight).
Also in the gameplay segments of the first phase, everything Raiden does is drastically weaker compared to phase 2, and Armstrong can't be staggered, stunned and can't flinch, at all, by anything. He also says shit like "Man-to-man I can't be beat! C'mon!". It's not just damage portraying Raiden's inability to harm him, it's literally everything. (Also Raiden takes vastly more damage for what it's worth, one punch from Armstrong does like, almost half your whole bar).
Next part is Armstrong sitting atop Raiden and ora rushing him into the metal Gear then punching him so hard the Metal Gear explodes. Armstrong walks over to Raiden's limp body who's on his ass due to the pummel and Armstrong says "All right. I think we're about done here". As Raiden lays on the ground amidst the flames. Pupper shows up, something about Sam, and while the mutt distracts Armstrong basically and plays Sam's last words via audio recording Raiden struggles to get on his ass and stand back up (Armstrong notices this fyi, looks at Raiden and goes "eh" and looks back towards Blade Wolf, he doesnt really give a **** and just let's Raiden try and get back to his feet, it also takes nearly three minutes for him to stand back up and almost a minute to get on his knee, so you claiming Raiden simply stood right back up is a blatant lie). He gets tossed the Muramusa, they both get ready to brawl, cue second phase.
Now, we're on the second phase. We already know Raiden previously couldn't do **** all, blatantly so. It's made so blatantly obvious that Raiden physically can't harm Armstrong, it's shown not only in the gameplay itself but also the QTE dedicated to showing how Raiden can't hurt him twice over and a cutscene where Armstrong states that Raiden can't hurt him all the while Raiden punches him and fails to hurt him. This is the very last sequence of Phase 1 when Armstrong starts to take things a bit seriously, I can not stress this enough, your claim of Raiden having always been capable of harming Armstrong and him not being that durable (Which you yourself contradict in your own post) is both enforced by gameplay, cutscenes, codecs, dialogue, character interactions and reactions and narrative even, contrary to your claims.
Yet let's compare and point a few canonical instances of Raiden harming Armstrong without Ripper Mode, without Muramusa, and while Armstrong is actively pissed off and going all out following the initial bout.
This one right here is the most blatant ass example of them all.
Raiden strikes Armstrong with Muramusa, who grabs it and manages to disarm him, as in literally loses Muramusa.
Raiden proceeds to block a serious punch from Armstrong with one arm with drastically less effort then it took to block a casual punch earlier with both hands, then proceeds to rapid punch him like he did prior, but instead of doing **** all, it's actually hurting him, and not just a little, Armstrong is visibly and audibly being harmed let alone the HP bar indicator, compared to the previous jabs that Armstrong took like nothing and did little damage if at all. Raiden then does a swift chop in the neck which hurts him as well and makes him fall back.
Followed by Raiden crosscountering him and punching him in the face so hard, it basically freeze frames, Armstrong gets launched but beyond that, Armstrong himself literally says that punch hurt him, we have direct confirmation a punch from Raiden, unaided, hurt Armstrong by Armstrong himself as well as the game. Compared to where previously, a full powered electric punch to the face got Raiden laughed at.
The exact same moves that did nothing before can do actual harm and damage to Armstrong, without any outside aid, and this has nothing to do with your narrative excuse or gameplay, as this is a QTE and narratively, it was shown these very same attacks could do basically nothing a few minutes ago.
But hey, more examples the better right?
Here's Raiden kicking Armstrong in the ribs and side and again, hurting him, (hell, we can hear the metal crunch, or possibly even bone breaking) and Armstrong's response? Him screaming in anger. Another clear cut example of Raiden harming Armstrong, physically, even seemingly quite badly, when previously he couldn't. In a canon QTE.
