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[R2M3] Venefica's Tier 7 Tourney: Spagmatron vs Asuna
- Thread starter VeneficaAuthor
- Start date
Javenplayz253
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Vene's being lazy again 
/j
/j
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Probably gonna be soon, we’ve already decided on incon overall, we just need to determine who is doing more in this fight, which venefica says is probably Asuna (She’s the only one who can feasibly land any hits at all and can dodge basically everything spag can yeet at her)
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- Thread starter
- #204
Depending on any final argument made by Froggy, Asuna is poised to advance after triple reviews of the last page of arguments. Due to how close this is, I want Froggy to have this last chance to try and change my mind. In the meantime though, I think I'll begin the next match
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Sure, but I will be final judge
Froggytron
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I don't have much other than to repeat myself. I do not want to be negative or anything, but it seems to me that Rayfire is still not taking into account things I repeated more than 4x times (the best example of this is the nerfed Gunnix arm Spagm can generate upon reaching level 4, about which 1/6 of this threat was about,
yet by this reply it still seems like Rayfire didn't read any of it).
As well Spagm’s advantage at the fight start, which I feel is somewhat being overlooked. It's a time, when he can show his true power against un-crazy-amped Asuna without complicated attacks developed against him, being in a 10-second Replay cooldown and possibly in a 30-second luck cooldown (given she uses the luck already on something, Spagm would notice and use other methods).
Another thing slightly upsetting me is that Asuna’s arguments behave as if Asuna possesses Extraordinary genius combat IQ and Genius IQ, although she has above average intelligence and genius combat IQ, and came from rlf being a human before. Spagm, on the other hand, is beside his evolution into a true soul being, a professional capturing war machine becoming expert in his attacks for over a thousand of years (given how close he is to level 4), bearing a mind surpassing a hall of Supercomputers. Yet it's still argued how Asuna dodges everything, and how she can with above average intelligence calculate in microseconds the precise location where her Rift-Way comes out (so it avoids getting within 2 meters to Red Circles orbiting in that direction) while being forced to dodge tens of thousands of projectiles that could kill her anytime. During all of this, she has to continuously use healing on her skin layers and certain cells (like bone marrow cells) with cellular precision (both continuously getting torn by Red Laser heat and emitted radiation each millisecond), as she has danmaku of tens of thousands Red Laser projectiles around her.
My claim is that this is a task for a supercomputer to do, especially at the start before she speed amps enough, and where she gets in the cooldowns. A single bad use of Riftway means near death. Safely operating so many things within milliseconds requires (mainly the riftways) the normal intelligence to be higher, while genius combat IQ still could be low to long-term dodge this nightmare danmaku.
Yet it is always argued Asuna doesn't have problems with it, even when Danger Sense doesn't detect Laser Circles, and Spagm can throw a tracking Digi-Shield on top of all this, making the attack around her guaranteed to land. During all of this, Asuna with an above average intelligence being a human in rlf not a long ago is argued to mostly without problems use Riftway to teleport into a secure spot in this nightmarish pattern-changing danmaku.
And it doesn't end here, Spagm can boost his thinking speed to deal with the amps at least in the start and mid of the fight (also being underestimated), all 3 sections of strength comparing indicate he has a clear advantage at the start, and then can match Asuna later at least equally. That's why, for the fourth time, propose Spagm is ‚doing better here.
Froggytron
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I suppose there will be corrections, I apologize beforehand if I understood anything badly
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Rayfire do you care for one more response here?
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Workin on it
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- #212
What how
MintyBoi1
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He’s working on it
Javenplayz253
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- #215
I know already lol
Javenplayz253
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Ok lol
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Well, that’s the thing, both are, at their base, moving a microsecond level speeds. And Asuna’s Genius combat IQ, while not as good as Spagmatrons, is still useful here and nothing that spag should underestimate. About the processing speed thing, once Asuna see’s spagmatrons beginning to use his red circle danmaku, just like she did against Kedron, she’ll use thunder magic speed amps the moment she see’s this happening, which, thus, in her eyes, will make everything seem like it’s slow motion. This is why I bring up speed so much, because it gives Asuna plenty of time to dodge and calculate everything, all before spag can react.
Spag has a supercomputer for a brain, yes, but it’s made evident on his profile that his brain operates like all his other speeds. It’s never said anywhere that he has speed of light processing speed or something like that, so he will still get blitzed.
I feel like this has been substantiated many times, but Asuna has done this EXACT thing before (Vol 1 Chapter 3) And with zero issues. She dodged, what is ironically described as “tens of thousands” of pieces of debris without much trouble. This won’t be anything new to her.
Oh, and by the way, Kedron was way faster than both Asuna and Shizu when they first encountered one another (Blitzed and reacted to them easily until they adapted), so, even if Asuna didn’t have speed amps, this is still extremely easy for her to dodge.
Asuna is also experienced at using multiple skills at once, so simply healing herself constantly (Although I’m not sure about the radiation spreading everywhere. You only mentioned it when you mentioned red lasers.) Won’t be a problem.
That’s true, but the only thing he can really use without Asuna’s danger sense detecting it is the red circles, which, even if she got encased in, could easily escape as already said at the beginning of this thread before Spagmatron can get any substantial amount of EXP, and then it would just mean Asuna know’s how his power works.
Also, due to VS thread rules, Asuna is already fully prepared to fight Spagmatron and vice versa, so it should be noted that this probably isn’t a useable strategy ^
…And that’s about the only way spag can take her by surprise, too. If he tries to blast her with a red laser, Asuna will detect it and avoid it, since Spagmatron is intending to harm her, and a bunch more examples of this.
Asuna, as I’ve already said earlier, will sense the digi-shield, since spagmatrons intention is to use it to land a hit on her, which danger sense will notify her of.
It’s not a guaranteed hit. You said earlier that it’s a 4 meter hitbox, which isn’t truly a guarantee
Given the environment the two are in, there are plenty of spots for Asuna to warp away from the digi-shield from. She can move backwards, upwards, etc. Even if she’s getting overwhelmed, she always has time magic to reverse the red circles back into position.
I should also mention that Spagmatron has to “Throw” it on to her, which, since Asuna will probably use speed amps extremely earlier in response to the danmaku (especially since froggy has just said spag would go all out from the start) it’ll be extremely difficult to actually put it on her, let alone keep it on, with how many warping or time-travelling abilities she’ll be using, and how she’s moving and reacting at a way faster pace than even spag’s supercomputer could keep up with, as explained above ^
Given that the battle would have to be going on for some time for the red circles to get significantly larger, Asuna, as I’ve said earlier, will likely think to use Nullify via Power creation. This should happen somewhat quickly compared to any other skill she might come up with, since she’s canoncially seen this… TWICE.
This will delete every red circle, and once spag regains control of them after a bit of time, they’ll have to be created and expand all over again, and Asuna can take this opportunity, as I’ve said many times earlier, to disable the digi-shields and land a hit on spag.
They’ve disabled forcefield-like properties before, so there’s absolutely no reason to think the red circles or any of spag’s shields are an exception to this.
This can also work for the digi-shilds once asuna knows what they are ^
Okay, but, like… Asuna can use playback the second she see’s that as well, and as I’ve mentioned earlier, she’ll likely speed amp right off the bat too, which will put them on equal footing. Asuna is also used to faster opponents (Kedron) in case you are thinking that spag’s amps, whatever they are, are an auto-win here. Even if they are, Asuna using time magic consistently will adapt, meaning she will still be faster.
I should also mention that Asuna could also probably remotely move the red circles away with air magic, since it’s basically pseudo-telekinesis. Idk, I just thought of that lol
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I feel u bro
Froggytron
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Enormously
I once again see several flaws in this (and no word about Gunnix arm again, for a fifth time), but replying would cause another wave, so I will stay silent and observe like a true Spagmatron
let's leave the mighty Sake with a blood star behind him cease this tornado of replies once and for all, with a definitive response about who should advance
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- #221
I believe that Asuna has more options to be landing hits/dodging attacks. Although Spagamtron has his reasons as well, it was indeed decided for incon. I could make a super long message in depth about the very small differences which are making me go this way, but I don't have time plus that's a ton of work to do. In short, Rafire's arguments stand out to me a bit more. Therefore, by some of the slimmest margins I've seen, I'm going to advance Asuna effective immediatly.
Froggytron
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I kinda expected this lol. Although I still don't agree with 100% of the arguments made for Asuna, I acknowledge she is a strong force, able to clash with a Charged State level 3 FU Android for a whole six threat pages, and still keep throwing new arguments. So yeah, congrats to Asuna on advancing, a good match!Epicness
Great job to my frog boi, he made a noteworthy debate
GG Incon
Javenplayz253
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If Maka never made it in and lucario was used She'll be fighting axlvenI kinda expected this lol. Although I still don't agree with 100% of the arguments made for Asuna, I acknowledge she is a strong force, able to clash with a Charged State level 3 FU Android for a whole six threat pages, and still keep throwing new arguments. So yeah, congrats to Asuna on advancing, a good match!
Seriously I wonder whenever there is an even stronger opponent to face her in this tourney left, given that storiverse duo withdrawn
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Don’t fret, Asuna wouldn’t kill something cute or innocent, even if it would give her a ton of XP. She ain’t evilIf Maka never made it in and lucario was used She'll be fighting axlven
Javenplayz253
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Asuna and Axlven tag team when?Don’t fret, Asuna wouldn’t kill something cute or innocent, even if it would give her a ton of XP. She ain’t evil
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Who knows
Froggytron
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Thanks for adding the results. I still wanna point out that the result on Asuna's profile is quite inaccurate, namely the phrase "Spagmatron had access to all of his abilities and Full EXP Meter”. The EXP Meter wasn't full, it was close to being full (full one straight evolves). Spagamtron was blocked from using ‚Laser circle investitions’ and Gunnix transformation (with which he would likely won, were it the full one). Both of these can be with an eye blind marked as „possible“, not making it the forbidden character restriction. Yet I feel these are still important factors worth mentioning in both results, furthermore, if it says "Spagm had access to all", which he really didn't.
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I’ll be honest I never, ever thought to even consider that an FU android might just evolve mid fight and that sort of complicated things. Spagmatron’s whole thing was weird tbh, I thought I was letting him in at 7-A but then in the first match froggy said he was High 7-A with high exp bar, I’m not sure if I just wasn’t paying attention when he was submitted, but he did a bunch of stuff I would’ve at least asked about before letting him in and that’s part of why this match got a bit complicated lol
At the very least this did indeed prove to be an excellent battle
At the very least this did indeed prove to be an excellent battle
Froggytron
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Yeah, I mentioned it all while submitting, high EXP meter is self-explanatory at evolving in the end game if EXP sources are present
Agree, the full defensive of FU Android line was finally put to a test
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Oh, mb lol
Froggytron
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Maybe replacing it with simple "both were restricted from entering 6 tier with amps or techniques" would be better, as it itself explains all.
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Asuna can’t enter tier 6 with any amps (At least, not yet) but I’ll change it accordingly anyways
Froggytron
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Didn't you say her EXP system allowed her to grow in stats while inputting her? As well her power creation could develop power-storing ability with time, landing a 6-tier impact eventually.Asuna can’t enter tier 6 with any amps (At least, not yet) but I’ll change it accordingly anyways
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