[Losers R3M1] Venefica's Tier 7 Tourney: Cinner vs Spagmatron

[VeneficaAuthor]

Original Tourney Thread
Tourney Bracket
Votes

Character	Key	Votes
Cinner​	Pure Form Mastery	6
Spagmatron	High exp	0
Inconclusive		0

Welcome to the losers bracket! Whoever loses in the losers bracket will have NO remaining chances in the tourney. Good luck! Winner advances to face winner of Rotten Sewage vs Accelerator.

40 meters starting distance with equal speed.

Both at 7-A.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Seems Cinner’s main priority will be getting through the Digi-Shield and laying on damage. It’s a good thing he’s primarily melee, so Froggy likely won’t get much energy to absorb. Cinner is a bit below High 7-A but he has his extension for continuous pushing and Lightning Breaker, Shield Piercer, and Metal Crush for quick maneuvers that deal big damage. Even Solid Crash could work with Cinner letting Lifeline slide down and fall with enough force and momentum to shatter the ground below.

 

[Froggytron]

Seems Cinner’s main priority will be laying getting through the Digi-Shield and laying on damage. It’s a good thing he’s primarily melee, so Froggy likely won’t get much energy to absorb. Cinner is a bit below High 7-A but he has his extension for continuous pushing and Lightning Breaker, Shield Piercer, and Metal Crush for quick maneuvers that deal big damage. Even Solid Crash could work with Cinner letting Lifeline slide down and fall with enough force and momentum to shatter the ground below.

Yeah, although Digishield reflects some attacks (having a reflect break if a strong attack is reflected) and slowly discharges damage even before it stockpiles at its High 7-A+ deactivating mile, spam of Lighting Breakers / Metal Crushes / Solid Crashes and especially Shield Piercers (applied as a jackhammer) have to potential to break through with shorter time.

Spagamtron starts with his Information analysis and applying his high-EXP boosts (to boost somewhere above the High 7-A baseline). The inform analysis tells Spagm opponent's strongest attack, in this fight context it would be likely Shield Piercers combined with the heat. Melee is not Spagms's favorite style, combined with Shield Piercer knowledge Spagm will try to distance in the opposite direction (using shadow liquid legs as grappling hooks pulling Spagm to the abandoned buildings from his back, to compensate for Cinner's moves trying to close 40-meter distance). While the chase happens, Spagm will deploy hundreds of straight-charged Laser Bubbles as bombs (levitating at the deployed spot, trying to bump into Cin intentionally with rapid speed as he passes by them), exploding within a close distance to Cinner, as he chases Spagm.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Yeah, although Digishield reflects some attacks (having a reflect break if a strong attack is reflected) and slowly discharges damage even before it stockpiles at its High 7-A+ deactivating mile, spam of Lighting Breakers / Metal Crushes / Solid Crashes and especially Shield Piercers (applied as a jackhammer) have to potential to break through with shorter time.

Spagamtron starts with his Information analysis and applying his high-EXP boosts (to boost somewhere above the High 7-A baseline). The inform analysis tells Spagm opponent's strongest attack, in this fight context it would be likely Shield Piercers combined with the heat. Melee is not Spagms's favorite style, combined with Shield Piercer knowledge Spagm will try to distance in the opposite direction (using shadow liquid legs as grappling hooks pulling Spagm to the abandoned buildings from his back, to compensate for Cinner's moves trying to close 40-meter distance). While the chase happens, Spagm will deploy hundreds of straight-charged Laser Bubbles as bombs (levitating at the deployed spot, trying to bump into Cin intentionally with rapid speed as he passes by them), exploding within a close distance to Cinner, as he chases Spagm.

Even if he’s reflected, Cinner has movement options to keep himself close. By discharge do you mean it releases damage done and repairs itself? And yeah, spam will be needed but 5 second cooldown makes that easy enough and of course the extension is mainly just for dealing damage easier using the staff.

So Spagmatron will have some AP/dura advantage, though he likely won’t be laying on hits like Cinner. Cinner is experienced with mobile opponents of course facing High-Flyer who could grapple away and fly as a fireball, keeping up pretty well. Their fight spanned a whole desolated city, so he’s got some things going for him. Cinner should recognize the bombs as threats given how they’re deployed so he will use Strong Leap and mid air jumps to avoid as necessary and outmaneuver them.

 

[MintyBoi1]

It seems like Cinner can get close to Spag relatively quickly even with his fleeing strategies. So what’s Frog do to stop a bombardment of physical attacks combined with aura?

 

[Froggytron]

Sorry for inactivity, got really busy with school lately, I will still reply today though

 

[Froggytron]

Even if he’s reflected, Cinner has movement options to keep himself close. By discharge do you mean it releases damage done and repairs itself? And yeah, spam will be needed but 5 second cooldown makes that easy enough and of course the extension is mainly just for dealing damage easier using the staff.

I agree, Cinner still gotta try hard to shatter each Digishiled. They "repair" 24/7, but once the "repairing" is overwhelmed and maximum damage absorption is reached, the shield for a while deactivates completely, so all the stacked damage can be safely released. The inactive shield still redirects 20% of ranged damage, which won't affect this fight likely.

So Spagmatron will have some AP/dura advantage, though he likely won’t be laying on hits like Cinner. Cinner is experienced with mobile opponents of course facing High-Flyer who could grapple away and fly as a fireball, keeping up pretty well. Their fight spanned a whole desolated city, so he’s got some things going for him. Cinner should recognize the bombs as threats given how they’re deployed so he will use Strong Leap and mid air jumps to avoid as necessary and outmaneuver them.

It seems like Cinner can get close to Spag relatively quickly even with his fleeing strategies. So what’s Frog do to stop a bombardment of physical attacks combined with aura?

So in short, Cin can bounce with Strong Leaps between the abandoned buildings to both evade bubble-dashing bombs and get closer to Spagm? His skill seems admirable to do these combined with air jumps, bet Spagm has never seen an opponent evading his projectiles like this

Cin still won't catch up with the 40-meter distance right away with Spagm distancing, Spagm can use 'Limited Earth Manipulation (can create massive cracks in ground at opponent direction)' with his feet grappling at buildings he is pulling at to make them crack and explode into Cinner's direction while evading into the backside. With precise calculations (on which Spagm can apply his calculating intelligence surpassing supercomputers), the building debris could intentionally get into Cinner's patterns to mess up his dodging to get hit by at least some bombs. Spagm can also remotely detonate the bombs prematurely to increase the odds of damage, as well extending their explosion size (at the cost of explosion speed) to further challenge Cinner's skill with Strong Leaps and mid-air jumps.

 

[Froggytron]

+ The building debris launched with feet (at least the most important parts) could get damage boosted by Spagm (which doesn't hold any weapons to damage boost yet), as well the LS advantage of Spagm gets applied to propel the debris with stronger force and likely a speed amp. Not sure if Spagm would figure it out right away, but the moment he sees Cin vaporizing the debris with heat aura (likely happening), he will go with damage boost to let building debris hit him through the heat aura, would it land.

 

[MintyBoi1]

I agree, Cinner still gotta try hard to shatter each Digishiled. They "repair" 24/7, but once the "repairing" is overwhelmed and maximum damage absorption is reached, the shield for a while deactivates completely, so all the stacked damage can be safely released. The inactive shield still redirects 20% of ranged damage, which won't affect this fight likely.


So in short, Cin can bounce with Strong Leaps between the abandoned buildings to both evade bubble-dashing bombs and get closer to Spagm? His skill seems admirable to do these combined with air jumps, bet Spagm has never seen an opponent evading his projectiles like this

Cin still won't catch up with the 40-meter distance right away with Spagm distancing, Spagm can use 'Limited Earth Manipulation (can create massive cracks in ground at opponent direction)' with his feet grappling at buildings he is pulling at to make them crack and explode into Cinner's direction while evading into the backside. With precise calculations (on which Spagm can apply his calculating intelligence surpassing supercomputers), the building debris could intentionally get into Cinner's patterns to mess up his dodging to get hit by at least some bombs. Spagm can also remotely detonate the bombs prematurely to increase the odds of damage, as well extending their explosion size (at the cost of explosion speed) to further challenge Cinner's skill with Strong Leaps and mid-air jumps.

Sounds about right on the shield aspect.

Right, plus just go over the bubbles depending on their radius and weave them if he gets too close. The buildings could definitely disrupt him, but his senses would pick up the disturbance and likely let him change his trajectory before he hits a bomb while distracted. He might get tagged the first time that’s pulled out, but he should be fine. As for setting off the bombs remotely, that’ll definitely be a problem depending on distance. Cinner has reacted to explosions before against giants but so close and so many is something else. The explosions being slowed could help Cinner out though when combined with his other perks Froggy hasn’t seen but he may need to catch Spagmatron quickly before he’s overwhelmed.

+ The building debris launched with feet (at least the most important parts) could get damage boosted by Spagm (which doesn't hold any weapons to damage boost yet), as well the LS advantage of Spagm gets applied to propel the debris with stronger force and likely a speed amp. Not sure if Spagm would figure it out right away, but the moment he sees Cin vaporizing the debris with heat aura (likely happening), he will go with damage boost to let building debris hit him through the heat aura, would it land.

This’ll basically be a sequence of quick time events like this (1:17/3:09). Acrobatics and jumps/extensions will have to carry heavy to avoid damage boosted attacks stronger than Cinner. Although, aura isn’t something he immediately pulls out, it’s mainly used when his emotions are heightened or he’s trying to overwhelm his opponent. He actually didn’t use it at all against Kernel right after learning it, opting to stick with his natural skill, though he gets a lot more liberal with it against later opponents. So Cinner may pull it out if he’s feeling he seriously needs to act and gain the upper hand or defend, but otherwise he’ll just pursue.

 

[Froggytron]

Sounds about right on the shield aspect.

Right, plus just go over the bubbles depending on their radius and weave them if he gets too close. The buildings could definitely disrupt him, but his senses would pick up the disturbance and likely let him change his trajectory before he hits a bomb while distracted. He might get tagged the first time that’s pulled out, but he should be fine. As for setting off the bombs remotely, that’ll definitely be a problem depending on distance. Cinner has reacted to explosions before against giants but so close and so many is something else. The explosions being slowed could help Cinner out though when combined with his other perks Froggy hasn’t seen but he may need to catch Spagmatron quickly before he’s overwhelmed.

Which perks Cinner could use to disturb Spagm's calculations? It seems to be 'run for time', if Cinner has enough of them to close the distance before Spagm notices them all and prepares for them in the calculations. Given that building are abandoned, would Cin jump through the windows of some of them to get cover against the pre-detonated re-sized explosions? That would seem to help, maybe using Strong Leaps to dispel building debris against the one Spagm is "throwing" could help him too (each time he bounces from a stone-like surface), if his skill would let him layer another action above all he is doing in the chase (as Cinner used this skill when he fought alongside GGesom)

This’ll basically be a sequence of quick time events like this (1:17/3:09). Acrobatics and jumps/extensions will have to carry heavy to avoid damage boosted attacks stronger than Cinner.

Indeed, imagine the budget to fully animate this fight to it's last detail xD

Although, aura isn’t something he immediately pulls out, it’s mainly used when his emotions are heightened or he’s trying to overwhelm his opponent. He actually didn’t use it at all against Kernel right after learning it, opting to stick with his natural skill, though he gets a lot more liberal with it against later opponents. So Cinner may pull it out if he’s feeling he seriously needs to act and gain the upper hand or defend, but otherwise he’ll just pursue.

I think Cinner will be forced to activate the aura at this point, given how the Red Laser "outer damage" was established recently (a red heat glow vaporizing layers of heat redundant objects, speeding up their aging and dealing the most radiation into them), and each bomb explosion emits all of this combined with loud noise and extra radiation. The special heat KI aura (having feats of burning slowing factors) seems to be a good way to reduce this as much as possible, allowing Cin to fight for much longer, as why Cin would be forced to apply this quickly.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Which perks Cinner could use to disturb Spagm's calculations? It seems to be 'run for time', if Cinner has enough of them to close the distance before Spagm notices them all and prepares for them in the calculations. Given that building are abandoned, would Cin jump through the windows of some of them to get cover against the pre-detonated re-sized explosions? That would seem to help, maybe using Strong Leaps to dispel building debris against the one Spagm is "throwing" could help him too (each time he bounces from a stone-like surface), if his skill would let him layer another action above all he is doing in the chase (as Cinner used this skill when he fought alongside GGesom)

Indeed, imagine the budget to fully animate this fight to it's last detail xD

I think Cinner will be forced to activate the aura at this point, given how the Red Laser "outer damage" was established recently (a red heat glow vaporizing layers of heat redundant objects, speeding up their aging and dealing the most radiation into them), and each bomb explosion emits all of this combined with loud noise and extra radiation. The special heat KI aura (having feats of burning slowing factors) seems to be a good way to reduce this as much as possible, allowing Cin to fight for much longer, as why Cin would be forced to apply this quickly.

His basically free movement in the air with jumps, Strong Leap to push himself away from something dangerous, and senses. It does seem they’d be racing for buildings, and yeah I think Cinner would use the windows since it’s an easily exploitable part of the environment for avoiding bombs. Blocking out the debris too. And for laying attacks, he can extend the staff then keep pushing until it retracts, so that would securely deal some damage.

It’d be a big budget/time commitment for sure.

If his options for evading the bombs and debris are beaten out, the aura could come out and let Froggy get his idea. I don’t think he’ll straight up one shot Cinner or anything, but that would be bad if he gets hit by the damage boosted attacks. Still, he’s taken holes in him so his willpower should let him push onwards and come up with something to catch him like throwing debris right back at him to disorient and coming in with Metal Crush/Solid Crash.

 

[Froggytron]

His basically free movement in the air with jumps, Strong Leap to push himself away from something dangerous, and senses. It does seem they’d be racing for buildings, and yeah I think Cinner would use the windows since it’s an easily exploitable part of the environment for avoiding bombs. Blocking out the debris too. And for laying attacks, he can extend the staff then keep pushing until it retracts, so that would securely deal some damage.

An epic chase, the building cover, Strong Leaps bouncing Cinner off the terrain and projecting stones to help + mid air jumps, while Spagm does the same with stretching legs pulling him back, and deploying the bumping bombs.

If his options for evading the bombs and debris are beaten out, the aura could come out and let Froggy get his idea. I don’t think he’ll straight up one shot Cinner or anything, but that would be bad if he gets hit by the damage boosted attacks. Still, he’s taken holes in him so his willpower should let him push onwards and come up with something to catch him like throwing debris right back at him to disorient and coming in with Metal Crush/Solid Crash.

The damage-boosted debris would still lose some energy + dangerous hax effects as it gets through the KI aura, so one shooting is out of the option (besides brain or heart). I imagine Cin similarly to 40% Deku fighting Overhaul, having some medium spiky debris cut deep in his body and having visible marks on it whole from some of the explosions he got too close to, but similarly to Deku still going forward thanks to immersing willpower even if in bad shape.

As Cin gets very close, Spagm would likely sacrifice his Digishield and let it endlessly resize, from Cin's view it would be a giant sphere wall getting bigger and going into his face as he chases Spagm. Can Cin manage to break through it with all the bumping bombs and debris (the actual waves of damage boost get nerfed as Spagm is concentrating on making the Digishield large)? Even if the shield has slightly less durability this way (having collided with the buildings and all, the first attack being repelled back could get tricky in the situation Cin is in, as well as using Lifeline to not just bounce but attack as well, even if just for a moment.

 

[MintyBoi1]

An epic chase, the building cover, Strong Leaps bouncing Cinner off the terrain and projecting stones to help, while Spagm does the same with stretching legs pulling him back, and planning the bumping bombs.

The damage-boosted debris would still lose some energy + dangerous hax effects as it gets through the KI aura, so one shooting is out of the option (besides brain or heart). I imagine Cin similarly to 40% Deku fighting Overhaul, having some medium spiky debris cut deep in his body and having visible marks on it whole from some of the explosions he got too close to, but similarly to Deku still going forward thanks to immersing willpower even if in bad shape.

As Cin gets very close, Spagm would likely sacrifice his Digishield and let it endlessly resize, from Cin's view it would be a giant sphere wall getting bigger and going into his face as he chases Spagm. Can Cin manage to break through it with all the bumping bombs and debris (the actual waves of damage boost get nerfed as Spagm is concentrating on making the Digishield large)? Even if the shield has slightly less durability this way (having collided with the buildings and all, the first attack being repelled back could get tricky in the situation Cin is in, as well as using Lifeline to not just bounce but attack as well, even if just for a moment.

This puts a smile on my face.

Definitely a good example for this situation, and basically how most of Cinner’s important fights end up.

I imagine Cinner would get desperate, trying to break through the shield with his maneuvers and all of the buildings around to launch as projectiles or just give him better momentum for say Shield Piercer. And of course he’d burn at it with his aura. If he gets reflected he could take some damage from bombs, but he can change buildings if he has to and since Spag won’t be deploying anymore bombs, he should have ample time to break through. Given his LS and strength, I wonder if he would just pull a Deku and throw an entire building at him or a section of one. It’d be like Kingdom Hearts 2 (19:14).

 

[Froggytron]

This puts a smile on my face.

Definitely a good example for this situation, and basically how most of Cinner’s important fights end up.

Im glad! This fight seems interesting and balanced to me as well, it feels great to argue with Spagm and not see exaggerated lists of replies meant to just win ASAP

I imagine Cinner would get desperate, trying to break through the shield with his maneuvers and all of the buildings around to launch as projectiles or just give him better momentum for say Shield Piercer. And of course he’d burn at it with his aura. If he gets reflected he could take some damage from bombs, but he can change buildings if he has to and since Spag won’t be deploying anymore bombs, he should have ample time to break through. Given his LS and strength, I wonder if he would just pull a Deku and throw an entire building at him or a section of one.

(From a 7-A AoE view, the normal buildings could be assigned to polystyrene. That is why I count on them being heavier and more durable, kinda like in the FU world, where materials have 10x and higher density as well as greater molecular bond durability).

It’d be like Kingdom Hearts 2 (19:14).

It's crazy how accurate that clip is, despite Spagm being no super boss in size, he is similar to a smaller tree in diameter. If Cin launches buildings as the first hero, it makes him lose much distance (as Spagm distances himself till buildings shatter the DigiShield). Spagm has three Digishields in total, and if he can launch them occasionally to prolong the distance and then keep the chase as long as possible, the third Digishield might get 100% „repaired“ by the time the other two were used, holding the chase scene till Cinner is worn down enough to get defeated (as minor damage gets done now and then). If Cinner won't go with another method, this seems like Spagm’s outlasting wincoin.

If Cinner however could launch the building while hooking at them with extending Lifeline (using it as a fishing rod to pull himself behind it), it could do a great first hit damage (where debris of the building gets teleported away) and then use Shield Piercer repeatedly as a jackhammer to finish the shield and get through. This would prevent the distance from prolonging more than slightly, allowing Cin to catch Spagm (where still Spagm prolongs the chase but not infinitely), at the cost of higher risk and skill requirements with the bombs and less frequent damage-boosted debris still around. Pure form Cinner's reactions still shouldn't be underestimated, as it's the ultimate prize for finning SDS tourney priced highly in the verse, fully concentrating Cinner should rival the Spagm’s non-mind-sharpened calculations.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Im glad! This fight seems interesting and balanced to me as well, it feels great to argue with Spagm and not see exaggerated lists of replies meant to just win ASAP

(From a 7-A AoE view, the normal buildings could be assigned to polystyrene. That is why I count on them being heavier and more durable, kinda like in the FU world, where materials have 10x and higher density as well as greater molecular bond durability).

It's crazy how accurate that clip is, despite Spagm being no super boss in size, he is similar to a smaller tree in diameter. If Cin launches buildings as the first hero, it makes him lose much distance (as Spagm distances himself till buildings shatter the DigiShield). Spagm has three Digishields in total, and if he can launch them occasionally to prolong the distance and then keep the chase as long as possible, the third Digishield might get 100% „repaired“ by the time the other two were used, holding the chase scene till Cinner is worn down enough to get defeated (as minor damage gets done now and then). If Cinner won't go with another method, this seems like Spagm’s outlasting wincoin.

If Cinner however could launch the building while hooking at them with extending Lifeline (using it as a fishing rod to pull himself behind it), it could do a great first hit damage (where debris of the building gets teleported away) and then use Shield Piercer repeatedly as a jackhammer to finish the shield and get through. This would prevent the distance from prolonging more than slightly, allowing Cin to catch Spagm (where still Spagm prolongs the chase but not infinitely), at the cost of higher risk and skill requirements with the bombs and less frequent damage-boosted debris still around. Pure form Cinner's reactions still shouldn't be underestimated, as it's the ultimate prize for finning SDS tourney priced highly in the verse, fully concentrating Cinner should rival the Spagm’s non-mind-sharpened calculations.

Yeah, this back and forth has been refreshing.

KH2’s finale is just amazing, Sora and Riku finally settling their differences and fighting together against Xemnas is legit the peak of the franchise. I finished all the games like last year, it’s super fun. I think what Cinner does is he launches the building then after that first attack is reflected, rushes in. He wouldn’t know about the reflection, but it’d just turn out that way. Spagm does have the stamina advantage from what I can tell, but he’d still have to outrun Cinner for 3 days at the worst if he can only distance himself. Cinner is a bit limited, but buildings, Lifeline, and aura combined could let him get through in that timeframe.

That’s kinda what I landed on but not as intricately. Using the building as an attachment to Lifeline would be crazy. He would be risking damage from the bombs if they’re still set up at this point, but with all his strategies laid out, I think he can bypass that disadvantage and break the shields before succumbing or being weakened enough to be outlasted. And like you said, Cinner is basically using all the processing power his brain has to focus in on winning the fight to the point he could go while unconscious and he’s already a combat genius with great instincts.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Bump

 

[Froggytron]

KH2’s finale is just amazing, Sora and Riku finally settling their differences and fighting together against Xemnas is legit the peak of the franchise. I finished all the games like last year, it’s super fun.

Great inspiration

I think what Cinner does is he launches the building then after that first attack is reflected, rushes in. He wouldn’t know about the reflection, but it’d just turn out that way. Spagm does have the stamina advantage from what I can tell, but he’d still have to outrun Cinner for 3 days at the worst if he can only distance himself. Cinner is a bit limited, but buildings, Lifeline, and aura combined could let him get through in that timeframe.

I meant it more in a damage-wearing-out sense, as Cin chasing Spagm gets damage-boosted debris pierced in him now and then combined with the harsh explosions, and although heat aura reduces the strength of negative effects, they still could finish Cin in hours at longest (aging and radiation namely). Mid-low regen still helps Cin though.

That’s kinda what I landed on but not as intricately. Using the building as an attachment to Lifeline would be crazy. He would be risking damage from the bombs if they’re still set up at this point, but with all his strategies laid out, I think he can bypass that disadvantage and break the shields before succumbing or being weakened enough to be outlasted. And like you said, Cinner is basically using all the processing power his brain has to focus in on winning the fight to the point he could go while unconscious and he’s already a combat genius with great instincts.

Spagm can use the shield infinitely in a circle if he can buy enough time so the last digishield (being deactivated but still around Spagm) manages to repair just before it would be required to be used at prolonging distance again.

Still, if Spagm notices this doesn't end, or if Cinner can manage to break a Digishield faster than is 1/3 of the repairing time, Spagm would go for a rapid change of strategy. Once like before, he deploys a massive expanding Digishield towards Cinner, but this time he catches with feet at two buildings closely behind it and uses the stretching liquid legs as a gigantic sling, where Spagm's body is in the metaphor the ball. While Cinner again attacks the shield, Spagm charges the kinetic energy and then propels himself at Cin with extreme speed, pointing with his spike-like arms forward.

^At least this is what Cin will see. In reality, Spagm, while stretching as a sling, shoots hundreds of laser circles around himself and turns all into Laser Bubbles sticking around him, effectively forming a gigantic sphere ball shield made of smaller rotating bubbles around him, just like how Calamitas-Clone summons these smaller drones around him in the later fight (4:02). Each Digishield has the power to make some of the things behind it seem invisible (by portalling light), which in this case would be the bubble layer and as Spagm builds it. As well the Digishield will false the light going through (making it seem Spagm didn't really charge as a sling much, when in reality he charged many times more), so Cinner can miscalculate Spagm's speed when he flies at him. The timing of the clash is set on the moment Cinner breaks the Digishield.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Great inspiration

I meant it more in a damage-wearing-out sense, as Cin chasing Spagm gets damage-boosted debris pierced in him now and then combined with the harsh explosions, and although heat aura reduces the strength of negative effects, they still could finish Cin in hours at longest (aging and radiation namely). Mid-low regen still helps Cin though.

Spagm can use the shield infinitely in a circle if he can buy enough time so the last digishield (being deactivated but still around Spagm) manages to repair just before it would be required to be used at prolonging distance again.

Still, if Spagm notices this doesn't end, or if Cinner can manage to break a Digishield faster than is 1/3 of the repairing time, Spagm would go for a rapid change of strategy. Once like before, he deploys a massive expanding Digishield towards Cinner, but this time he catches with feet at two buildings closely behind it and uses the stretching liquid legs as a gigantic sling, where Spagm's body is in the metaphor the ball. While Cinner again attacks the shield, Spagm charges the kinetic energy and then propels himself at Cin with extreme speed, pointing with his spike-like arms forward.

^At least this is what Cin will see. In reality, Spagm, while stretching as a sling, shoots hundreds of laser circles around himself and turns all into Laser Bubbles sticking around him, effectively forming a gigantic sphere ball shield made of smaller rotating bubbles around him, just like how Calamitas-Clone summons these smaller drones around him in the later fight (4:02). Each Digishield has the power to make some of the things behind it seem invisible (by portalling light), which in this case would be the bubble layer and as Spagm builds it. As well the Digishield will false the light going through (making it seem Spagm didn't really charge as a sling much, when in reality he charged many times more), so Cinner can miscalculate Spagm's speed when he flies at him. The timing of the clash is set on the moment Cinner breaks the Digishield.

I see, damage outlasting could work but it does seem a bit unlikely. Going off that scenario where Cinner does get through and Froggy pulls off the invisible lasers, I wonder just how that’ll go. Cinner breaks the shield and sees Froggy charging, yet the air currents tell him there’s more. Cinner should recognize these as set ups just like all the bombs from before. Figuring there’s something else going on, he would meet Froggy in the air with an extended spin going several meters and projectiles to get past the invisible bubbles and to Spagmatron. Even if he miscalculate’s Spag’s speed, his range should let him catch him midair and execute his plan of weakening his defenses until it’s less risky to attack head on.

 

[Froggytron]

I see, damage outlasting could work but it does seem a bit unlikely. Going off that scenario where Cinner does get through and Froggy pulls off the invisible lasers, I wonder just how that’ll go. Cinner breaks the shield and sees Froggy charging, yet the air currents tell him there’s more. Cinner should recognize these as set ups just like all the bombs from before. Figuring there’s something else going on, he would meet Froggy in the air with an extended spin going several meters and projectiles to get past the invisible bubbles and to Spagmatron. Even if he miscalculate’s Spag’s speed, his range should let him catch him midair and execute his plan of weakening his defenses until it’s less risky to attack head on.

I see, do I understand correctly that Cinner uses debris (from the building he threw at the Digishield last, which gets reflected) to jump between it while spinning to not face Spagm head-on but to try to slam with Lifeline at the bubble formation from top or side? Spagm made sure that the bubble sphere is perfect, with no gaps should be between the individual bubbles orbiting in it.

 

[MintyBoi1]

I see, do I understand correctly that Cinner uses debris (from the building he threw at the Digishield last, which gets reflected) to jump between it while spinning to not face Spagm head-on but to try to slam with Lifeline at the bubble formation from top or side? Spagm made sure that the bubble sphere is perfect, with no gaps should be between the individual bubbles orbiting in it.

He’s going horizontally to cover all the bubbles he can without having to directly get hit by or touch them so he can avoid the adverse effects and blow back Spag at once. He’d be building up with wide staff blows and projectiles to clear multiple at once until he no longer feels the bubbles orbiting or at least until there’s a clear path where he could avoid them and land a good string of combos.

 

[Froggytron]

He’s going horizontally to cover all the bubbles he can without having to directly get hit by or touch them so he can avoid the adverse effects and blow back Spag at once. He’d be building up with wide staff blows and projectiles to clear multiple at once until he no longer feels the bubbles orbiting or at least until there’s a clear path where he could avoid them and land a good string of combos.

When would Cinner realize the bubbles are another setup, trying to catch and drag Lifeline into them to deconstruct it into EXP?

• Sealing Laser Bubbles - Laser Circles can, instead of charging radiation and energy by distance, charge energy from the enemy attacks and enemies themselves, or further convert them into EXP being sent to Spagmatron, when turned into Laser Bubble form. Depending on Spagamtron's command, the circle can with nearly instant stretching speed catch the targeted object at a very close distance, into Laser Bubbles. The Bubble is from within elastic and creates its own center of gravity. Gigantic objects can be captured as well, but all effects applying at individual cubic meters get weaker with Bubbles stretched to match them.

Obviously, the bubbles are already created (so no instant bubble appearing around Lifeline), but dragging objects which touched their surface into them to seal them inside still applies, and the bubble cover orbits from the sole reason to drag the Lifeline away from Cinner would he lost a grip on it, as Spagm already observed how useful the staff weapon for Cin is.

 

[MintyBoi1]

When would Cinner realize the bubbles are another setup, trying to catch and drag Lifeline into them to deconstruct it into EXP?

• Sealing Laser Bubbles - Laser Circles can, instead of charging radiation and energy by distance, charge energy from the enemy attacks and enemies themselves, or further convert them into EXP being sent to Spagmatron, when turned into Laser Bubble form. Depending on Spagamtron's command, the circle can with nearly instant stretching speed catch the targeted object at a very close distance, into Laser Bubbles. The Bubble is from within elastic and creates its own center of gravity. Gigantic objects can be captured as well, but all effects applying at individual cubic meters get weaker with Bubbles stretched to match them.

Obviously, the bubbles are already created (so no instant bubble appearing around Lifeline), but dragging objects which touched their surface into them to seal them inside still applies, and the bubble cover orbits from the sole reason to drag the Lifeline away from Cinner would he lost a grip on it, as Spagm already observed how useful the staff weapon for Cin is.

It depends, would they be releasing energy and radiation like before or just pop normally? It says they’re not being charged I think in that description. So using that demonstration of no harm coming (explosions rupturing the air) and the fact Spag likely wouldn’t put himself in danger by surrounding himself with bombs given his cautious nature all fight, I think Cinner could put together that they’re for something different rather quickly. In like 5 bubbles not doing anything apparently harmful which’ll be pretty fast with AOE, he should piece things together and just start clearing bubbles with aura. Does Spagm have good chances of sealing Lifeline while Cinner is dashing around his circle and getting the bubbles plus beating him down? It seems he’d have to make Cinner lose his grip and get past the aura to really catch the staff.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Bump

 

[Froggytron]

It depends, would they be releasing energy and radiation like before or just pop normally?

Well, they are far from the physiology of normal bubbles, they are effectively elastic trap prisons letting movements into them (projectiles or enemies dashing in), while trying to get anything out of them proves difficult as the elastic barrier from the inner side activates, kinda like if Lifeline got stuck at a puddle of rubber elastic super-glue, the strength of pulling is mostly converted to stretch the whole bubble into the particular direction.

The bubbles also create their own gravitation inside, so anything buried within the bubble gets pulled to the middle of it, further complicating the return. Also worth mentioning the bubbles are mostly used to seal weaker low Sin-Meter beings in (while the deconstructing into EXP is deactivated) so Frogmen and army can devastate all else, the bubbles prevent radiation from getting inside, they should be able to not emit from outside as well

and the fact Spag likely wouldn’t put himself in danger by surrounding himself with bombs given his cautious nature all fight

He didn't get desperate enough to do these, but Cin is giving him a wonderful match where he doesn't have to hold back and gets actually pressured

I think Cinner could put together that they’re for something different rather quickly. In like 5 bubbles not doing anything apparently harmful which’ll be pretty fast with AOE, he should piece things together and just start clearing bubbles with aura. Does Spagm have good chances of sealing Lifeline while Cinner is dashing around his circle and getting the bubbles plus beating him down? It seems he’d have to make Cinner lose his grip and get past the aura to really catch the staff.

So would Cin attack the bubbles with Lifeline or not? Lifeline could get stuck on the first bubble it buries into, Cinner's best odds would be attempting to just scratch them with the very tip of Lifeline (even better if the tip of Lifeline deals the immerse heat), but there is no way for Cin to know that before he finds by trial and error.

The aura would be definitely a force trying to divide the bubble-spinning formation, Spagm did well by connecting them tightly (so the bubble surfaces are buried in other bubble surfaces, they are essentially glued to each other with elasticity and their own center gravitation) so the formation can last some decent time.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Well, they are far from the physiology of normal bubbles, they are effectively elastic trap prisons letting movements into them (projectiles or enemies dashing in), while trying to get anything out of them proves difficult as the elastic barrier from the inner side activates, kinda like if Lifeline got stuck at a puddle of rubber elastic super-glue, the strength of pulling is mostly converted to stretch the whole bubble into the particular direction.

The bubbles also create their own gravitation inside, so anything buried within the bubble gets pulled to the middle of it, further complicating the return. Also worth mentioning the bubbles are mostly used to seal weaker low Sin-Meter beings in (while the deconstructing into EXP is deactivated) so Frogmen and army can devastate all else, the bubbles prevent radiation from getting inside, they should be able to not emit from outside as well

He didn't get desperate enough to do these, but Cin is giving him a wonderful match where he doesn't have to hold back and gets actually pressured

So would Cin attack the bubbles with Lifeline or not? Lifeline could get stuck on the first bubble it buries into, Cinner's best odds would be attempting to just scratch them with the very tip of Lifeline (even better if the tip of Lifeline deals the immerse heat), but there is no way for Cin to know that before he finds by trial and error.

The aura would be definitely a force trying to divide the bubble-spinning formation, Spagm did well by connecting them tightly (so the bubble surfaces are buried in other bubble surfaces, they are essentially glued to each other with elasticity and their own center gravitation) so the formation can last some decent time.

So they’re kinda static, I think Cinner can recognize them as listed above. The gravitation will be bad if Lifeline does get caught though.

If the bubbles yield to the aura easily, I think he’d just fly through them while leaving Lifeline to hit Spag. The bubbles wouldn’t get the chance in that case since the aura extends outwards and catches them before Cinner considers melee, even without knowledge. And if he does try hitting one, wouldn’t the aura just burn it away, especially since he’d be pressured to use it? The formation being so tight is a strength and a weakness as there’s more chances to catch Lifeline but they’re also easier to destroy.

Unless Spagmatron has a better option he can pull out in quick succession, I think Cinner is beating him out with a bit of time.

 

[Froggytron]

So they’re kinda static, I think Cinner can recognize them as listed above. The gravitation will be bad if Lifeline does get caught though.

If the bubbles yield to the aura easily, I think he’d just fly through them while leaving Lifeline to hit Spag.

Don't think the bubble formation would crumble so easily. The higher stage above Spagm, Gunnix, has Red Laser bullets reaching temperatures of dozes of thousands Celsius easily, yet low Sin-Meter beings captured in Spagm's bubbles are still unharmed by heat despite these bullets passing very closely (which vaporize mountains in numbers if flying beside them), and with some charge, they could have a shot at tanking the Gunnix hit.

The bubbles wouldn’t get the chance in that case since the aura extends outwards and catches them before Cinner considers melee, even without knowledge.

So bubbles should withstand the aura, at least for a while, Cin hitting the bubbles is very likely.

And if he does try hitting one, wouldn’t the aura just burn it away, especially since he’d be pressured to use it? The formation being so tight is a strength and a weakness as there’s more chances to catch Lifeline but they’re also easier to destroy.

Red Laser bubbles can deconstruct enemy energy projectiles easily, if the bubble gets filled with immersing quantities of KI heat, it would withstand for a small duration by absorbing as much as possible and sending it to Spagm in the form of the remote energy until the bubble would literally explode from the heat charge. Until the bubble explodes like this, how would Cinner protect against other bubbles and projectiles Spagm is producing going at him?

Unless Spagmatron has a better option he can pull out in quick succession, I think Cinner is beating him out with a bit of time.

It's honorable how Cinner came close to Spagm. Btw all this situation with bubbles is happening as speed amped Spagm firing himself from his own slingshot passes beside Cinner, would the Lifeline get stuck into any bubble, Cin is dragged after Spagm with bubbles still flying forward at rapid speed.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Don't think the bubble formation would crumble so easily. The higher stage above Spagm, Gunnix, has Red Laser bullets reaching temperatures of dozes of thousands Celsius easily, yet low Sin-Meter beings captured in Spagm's bubbles are still unharmed by heat despite these bullets passing very closely (which vaporize mountains in numbers if flying beside them), and with some charge, they could have a shot at tanking the Gunnix hit.

So bubbles should withstand the aura, at least for a while, Cin hitting the bubbles is very likely.

Red Laser bubbles can deconstruct enemy energy projectiles easily, if the bubble gets filled with immersing quantities of KI heat, it would withstand for a small duration by absorbing as much as possible and sending it to Spagm in the form of the remote energy until the bubble would literally explode from the heat charge. Until the bubble explodes like this, how would Cinner protect against other bubbles and projectiles Spagm is producing going at him?

It's honorable how Cinner came close to Spagm. Btw all this situation with bubbles is happening as speed amped Spagm firing himself from his own slingshot passes beside Cinner, would the Lifeline get stuck into any bubble, Cin is dragged after Spagm with bubbles still flying forward at rapid speed.

How much is dozens? 24000 Celsius is 43232 Fahrenheit and 36000 Celsius 57632 Fahrenheit. They can match for a bit if they’re specifically that high, but I’d assume it’d just be the 24000 one.

So basically Cinner is circling, making the bubbles absorb heat energy until they all pop. And using the lower ends of dozens of thousands of Celsius I got, I’d assume that’s like 20 seconds tops. Besides launching himself with tendrils, Spagm doesn’t seem to have close range mobility options to let him consistently tag Cinner while he’s doing all this. There’s that and Cinner’s non-physical interaction plus experience blocking seemingly thinner lasers than Spag’s at close range. As for the bubbles, I’d assume they’d have trouble trying to stack massive amounts of energy and catch a moving target at once.

So he’d still be launching himself, that could be a bit troublesome, but he has to put all his faith in those bubbles managing to beat the odds and get Cinner’s weapon for him to be vulnerable to a grab.

 

[Froggytron]

How much is dozens? 24000 Celsius is 43232 Fahrenheit and 36000 Celsius 57632 Fahrenheit. They can match for a bit if they’re specifically that high, but I’d assume it’d just be the 24000 one.

The temperature of bullets depends on Gunnix's mood and "trying", likely about 24000, if he is just stomping. Bubbles still wouldn't disappear instantly even with much higher temperatures, but would the Gunnix bullet circled around the bubble, the heat would stack, which kinda Cinner is trying to do here.

So basically Cinner is circling, making the bubbles absorb heat energy until they all pop. And using the lower ends of dozens of thousands of Celsius I got, I’d assume that’s like 20 seconds tops.

Yeah, but it comes at a sacrifice (similar to the Delta fight), as Spagm reaches Charged State this way + Lifeline gets likely worn down if it's in bubbles just for moments repeatedly. How would Cinner circle around Spagm when Spagm builds speed by slingshot style and moves in the battlefield at a massive speed amp in linear paths?

Besides launching himself with tendrils, Spagm doesn’t seem to have close range mobility options to let him consistently tag Cinner while he’s doing all this. There’s that and Cinner’s non-physical interaction plus experience blocking seemingly thinner lasers than Spag’s at close range. As for the bubbles, I’d assume they’d have trouble trying to stack massive amounts of energy and catch a moving target at once.

How would be non-physical interaction applied and at which concretely? As for bubbles already formed, it's true the heat could repel them would they try getting close, but if Spagm fires new Red Laser circles (which would transform into bubbles directly around Cinner when they would get close to him) while Cinner is dealing with bubble cover, Cin would really have to be on guard.

So he’d still be launching himself, that could be a bit troublesome, but he has to put all his faith in those bubbles managing to beat the odds and get Cinner’s weapon for him to be vulnerable to a grab.

This would be a crazy anime fight if animated for sure

 

[MintyBoi1]

The temperature of bullets depends on Gunnix's mood and "trying", likely about 24000, if he is just stomping. Bubbles still wouldn't disappear instantly even with much higher temperatures, but would the Gunnix bullet circled around the bubble, the heat would stack, which kinda Cinner is trying to do here.

Yeah, but it comes at a sacrifice (similar to the Delta fight), as Spagm reaches Charged State this way + Lifeline gets likely worn down if it's in bubbles just for moments repeatedly. How would Cinner circle around Spagm when Spagm builds speed by slingshot style and moves in the battlefield at a massive speed amp in linear paths?

How would be non-physical interaction applied and at which concretely? As for bubbles already formed, it's true the heat could repel them would they try getting close, but if Spagm fires new Red Laser circles (which would transform into bubbles directly around Cinner when they would get close to him) while Cinner is dealing with bubble cover, Cin would really have to be on guard.

This would be a crazy anime fight if animated for sure

So I think that means my 20 seconds estimation is correct. That means Cinner just has to last and take out all the bubbles to break down all of Spagmatron’s defenses.

I see, though how’s Lifeline get worn down, aren’t the bubbles just sticky? I don’t see how attempted sealing really causes harm. And I think by the time Froggy gets that amp, enough of the bubbles will be gone for Cinner to comfortably try and approach him. The speed difference will be tough but he has air pulling to serve as a good distraction and Spagm’s linear path leaves a good foundation for the air vibrations to tell Cinner where to attack. He’d use his analytical prediction to keep him on his toes and finish him quickly as possible. Say he keeps running, Cinner goes through buildings to catch the predicted point and slam him.

It’s a good failsafe if Spagm tries overwhelming with lasers once bubbles aren’t working. Wouldn’t Spagm have to get away to make new bubbles around Cinner, making him get pursued? Either way, Cinner could block the lasers and deflect them as they turn into bubbles since they have to get close. I can see him doing that and/or just jumping right to Spagm.

Btw I just finished up Persona 3 Reload, so that’s why this took a while.

 

[Froggytron]

So I think that means my 20 seconds estimation is correct. That means Cinner just has to last and take out all the bubbles to break down all of Spagmatron’s defenses.

I see, though how’s Lifeline get worn down, aren’t the bubbles just sticky? I don’t see how attempted sealing really causes harm. And I think by the time Froggy gets that amp, enough of the bubbles will be gone for Cinner to comfortably try and approach him. The speed difference will be tough but he has air pulling to serve as a good distraction and Spagm’s linear path leaves a good foundation for the air vibrations to tell Cinner where to attack. He’d use his analytical prediction to keep him on his toes and finish him quickly as possible. Say he keeps running, Cinner goes through buildings to catch the predicted point and slam him.

Well, the moment Lifeline gets even a millimeter under the bubble surface, the said millimeter starts getting deconstructed into EXP. Meaning at best, the tips of Lifeline will get really worn out by the time enough bubbles will perish for Cinner to attack Spagm himself. What is helping is that the speed of object deconstructing isn't ultra fast when the object is alive, which keeps Lifeline worn out and not 100% melted away, as Cinner's bond allows his life force to float into it.

It’s a good failsafe if Spagm tries overwhelming with lasers once bubbles aren’t working. Wouldn’t Spagm have to get away to make new bubbles around Cinner, making him get pursued? Either way, Cinner could block the lasers and deflect them as they turn into bubbles since they have to get close. I can see him doing that and/or just jumping right to Spagm.

So at last, Cinner gets through. Spagm wouldn't try to escape again (as he sees Cin is slightly faster with his terrain mobility skill), rather Spagm would face Cinner directly. A final showdown:

FU Androids aren't best suitable for melee, but that doesn't mean their form isn't prepared for it. Spagm has another set of arms hidden under the shoulder spikes, and can project them as melee spears once melee comforted, here is an image to see what it looks like. Spagm's spike between eyes is a backup melee spear as well.

All spears have a direct Red Laser energy covering on their ends (the red parts), which also radiate with immersing heat (repelling objects and energies back). They cause even sharper Red Laser deadly effects on touch similar to Red Laser attacks and can be used as an absorption medium too (all limb ends of FU Android can, feet, fists, and arm spikes are secondary hands of Spagm).

With the power of calculations closing the melee skill gap, and given all the injuries both Cinner and his weapon took, Spagm shouldn't have problems combating Cinner at close in equal terms, striking and swinging with the spikes to repel Lifeline and attempting to deal piercing hits. The heat auras seem to negate each other, preventing both Lifeline and Spagm's spikes from total destruction.

Would Cinner and Spagm deal an equal number of hits to each other, I could see Cin falling sooner due to the deadly effects of each stab. Spagm on the other hand has a durability advantage (which although still gets nerfed by the Cinner heat aura now in his face, given that FU steel temporarily weakens when giant heat is close), has 3x damage reductions to compensate for the material weakening.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Well, the moment Lifeline gets even a millimeter under the bubble surface, the said millimeter starts getting deconstructed into EXP. Meaning at best, the tips of Lifeline will get really worn out by the time enough bubbles will perish for Cinner to attack Spagm himself. What is helping is that the speed of object deconstructing isn't ultra fast when the object is alive, which keeps Lifeline worn out and not 100% melted away, as Cinner's bond allows his life force to float into it.

So at last, Cinner gets through. Spagm wouldn't try to escape again (as he sees Cin is slightly faster with his terrain mobility skill), rather Spagm would face Cinner directly. A final showdown:

FU Androids aren't best suitable for melee, but that doesn't mean their form isn't prepared for it. Spagm has another set of arms hidden under the shoulder spikes, and can project them as melee spears once melee comforted, here is an image to see what it looks like. Spagm's spike between eyes is a backup melee spear as well.

All spears have a direct Red Laser energy covering on their ends (the red parts), which also radiate with immersing heat (repelling objects and energies back). They cause even sharper Red Laser deadly effects on touch similar to Red Laser attacks and can be used as an absorption medium too (all limb ends of FU Android can, feet, fists, and arm spikes are secondary hands of Spagm).

With the power of calculations closing the melee skill gap, and given all the injuries both Cinner and his weapon took, Spagm shouldn't have problems combating Cinner at close in equal terms, striking and swinging with the spikes to repel Lifeline and attempting to deal piercing hits. The heat auras seem to negate each other, preventing both Lifeline and Spagm's spikes from total destruction.

Would Cinner and Spagm deal an equal number of hits to each other, I could see Cin falling sooner due to the deadly effects of each stab. Spagm on the other hand has a durability advantage (which although still gets nerfed by the Cinner heat aura now in his face, given that FU steel temporarily weakens when giant heat is close), has 3x damage reductions to compensate for the material weakening.

I see, then it’s a good things the bubbles won’t last too long.

So Cinner winning means landing more hits and not taking direct blows from the irradiated spears. Like mentioned, he has a great melee skill advantage and experience fighting people with sharp weaponry plus katana mastery, so he would likely know some things Spagm would try with those spears. He also has his enhanced threat perception and acrobatics to make up for the speed amp like how Sage Mode Naruto dodged and redirected an attack from a faster Third Raikage. Another thing, on Lifeline being damaged, if it’s got a huge hole in it I can see that working to puncture Spagmatron since it’d be so rough and sharp rather than a straight edged bludgeon. Since Spagm’s armor is weakened by the heat, this should let him be more susceptible to a piercing attack given the chance. And of course Lifeline’s extension will make this all the more painful, driving the sharpened weapon into Spagm’s more organic and vital parts.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

What are the chances this ends soon? It’s been on for a while

(Not that this fight hasn’t been very entertaining)

 

[MintyBoi1]

We’re at the final clash. Now we’re just waiting for Spagmatron’s concluding arguments. I should add that Cinner seems naturally better in the air game given how much his arsenal revolves around it compared to Spag. A well timed Metal Crush with stabbing added could be an instant kill/incap and Metal Whirlwind is a solid defense.

 

[Froggytron]

I see, then it’s a good things the bubbles won’t last too long.

So Cinner winning means landing more hits and not taking direct blows from the irradiated spears. Like mentioned, he has a great melee skill advantage and experience fighting people with sharp weaponry plus katana mastery, so he would likely know some things Spagm would try with those spears. He also has his enhanced threat perception and acrobatics to make up for the speed amp like how Sage Mode Naruto dodged and redirected an attack from a faster Third Raikage.

Since the timer wasn't added, I watched the whole vid, but it was good I cannot complain. So you mean the 8:30 moment where Naruto makes that blue ball for the dude to attack himself? Could Cinner similarly make some heat-repelling blast to force Spagm's spikes on his own armor? Maybe it would be possible if Cinner beforehand severed the Shadow Liquid limbs (the black parts between the green armor), but they have a high chance of regenerating and stopping the spike nearing Spagm's body.

Another thing, on Lifeline being damaged, if it’s got a huge hole in it I can see that working to puncture Spagmatron since it’d be so rough and sharp rather than a straight edged bludgeon. Since Spagm’s armor is weakened by the heat, this should let him be more susceptible to a piercing attack given the chance. And of course Lifeline’s extension will make this all the more painful, driving the sharpened weapon into Spagm’s more organic and vital parts.

Shame how slow progress on Frogman Physiology is going (explaining reasons for most of both evolution-lines powers), but in short, FU Androids operate on a Soul Crystal controlling any inorganic body on organic principles (gaining Charged State bonuses when the inorganic body charges with energy). Their soul and true brain are in the main Red Laser Crystal core in the center of their body, the body itself (from either sand, water, earth, compressed air or specialized FU metal soldier body Spagm default has) is kinda like clothing for them, they can switch bodies and cancel any pain (where they develop the imaginary nerves to feel through the body in the first place). A silhouette of Spagamtron from sand could move exactly how Spagamtron in soldier armor, even if all mechanic parts allowing greater comfort to Spagm got disabled, Spagm could do most of what he can, similarly how you could ride a truck without a comfortable soft seat but an iron seat skeleton instead.

The important part of this is, that when Cinner seriously damages parts of Spagmatron's body (with sharpened Lifeline and heat aura), Spagm can heal with 80% Frogman Physiology, which automatically vacuums nearby materials to repair damages with it, filling the gaps made with original armor material fragment pulled back glued by around materials (debris, earth, Lifeline bits), given enough time it becomes full armor again. The most menacing factor here is that Lifeline would be pulled passively as well to repair the damages it itself causes, ironically using bits of Lifeline as a glue filling the gaps Lifeline made, shortening Lifeline with each good hit landed at Spagm.

How would Cinner react to this happening, while Spagm would do his best to land anyhow the spike through him and his heat aura, inflicting all Red Laser dangerous effects directly at his body? Spagm has a Charged State activated from the bubbles (raising his stats up to 4x times, but wouldn't say it reaches its maximum height), he could manifest prison bar cells out of lasers around Cinner, so Cin has a harder time dodging the stabs while trying to get free. Combining this with Laser Nightmare move, dots appearing around them, and connecting with Red Lasers (calculated to appear in places where Cin would dodge or try to hit Spagm) could highly complicate the combat. He used these two to overwhelm Delta in their fight.

 

[Froggytron]

We’re at the final clash. Now we’re just waiting for Spagmatron’s concluding arguments. I should add that Cinner seems naturally better in the air game given how much his arsenal revolves around it compared to Spag. A well timed Metal Crush with stabbing added could be an instant kill/incap and Metal Whirlwind is a solid defense.

Wouldnt say an instant kill/incap, Spagm still has superior durability and last resort methods complicating one-shot. Cinner still has a good way of weakening Spagm's armor and each hit with a sharpened Lifeline seems to cause serious blows, there is a need for many to land though.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Since the timer wasn't added, I watched the whole vid, but it was good I cannot complain. So you mean the 8:30 moment where Naruto makes that blue ball for the dude to attack himself? Could Cinner similarly make some heat-repelling blast to force Spagm's spikes on his own armor? Maybe it would be possible if Cinner beforehand severed the Shadow Liquid limbs (the black parts between the green armor), but they have a high chance of regenerating and stopping the spike nearing Spagm's body.

Shame how slow progress on Frogman Physiology is going (explaining reasons for most of both evolution-lines powers), but in short, FU Androids operate on a Soul Crystal controlling any inorganic body on organic principles (gaining Charged State bonuses when the inorganic body charges with energy). Their soul and true brain are in the main Red Laser Crystal core in the center of their body, the body itself (from either sand, water, earth, compressed air or specialized FU metal soldier body Spagm default has) is kinda like clothing for them, they can switch bodies and cancel any pain (where they develop the imaginary nerves to feel through the body in the first place). A silhouette of Spagamtron from sand could move exactly how Spagamtron in soldier armor, even if all mechanic parts allowing greater comfort to Spagm got disabled, Spagm could do most of what he can, similarly how you could ride a truck without a comfortable soft seat but an iron seat skeleton instead.

The important part of this is, that when Cinner seriously damages parts of Spagmatron's body (with sharpened Lifeline and heat aura), Spagm can heal with 80% Frogman Physiology, which automatically vacuums nearby materials to repair damages with it, filling the gaps made with original armor material fragment pulled back glued by around materials (debris, earth, Lifeline bits), given enough time it becomes full armor again. The most menacing factor here is that Lifeline would be pulled passively as well to repair the damages it itself causes, ironically using bits of Lifeline as a glue filling the gaps Lifeline made, shortening Lifeline with each good hit landed at Spagm.

How would Cinner react to this happening, while Spagm would do his best to land anyhow the spike through him and his heat aura, inflicting all Red Laser dangerous effects directly at his body? Spagm has a Charged State activated from the bubbles (raising his stats up to 4x times, but wouldn't say it reaches its maximum height), he could manifest prison bar cells out of lasers around Cinner, so Cin has a harder time dodging the stabs while trying to get free. Combining this with Laser Nightmare move, dots appearing around them, and connecting with Red Lasers (calculated to appear in places where Cin would dodge or try to hit Spagm) could highly complicate the combat. He used these two to overwhelm Delta in their fight.

Yeah, when he drove his own hand into him. The example was more just to show how good extrasensory abilities can be against a speed disadvantage, but I can see Cinner ducking under and either piercing with Lifeline or driving one of Spagm’s spikes into him like Naruto did.

I see, though given the core is one of the easier places on the body to hit and the ducking scenario listed, I see Cinner destroying that core with his extension before the less essential things. It is a giant obvious glowing gem. Spagm’s armor regenerating may work on paper but the material he’s pulling in likely can’t take Cinner’s heat like he can so his method of recovery will be disabled long enough for proper damage to be done. As for pulling Lifeline, while I’ve not put an exact multiplier, PFM scales above regular Pure Form’s LS which while not Class T is close. So Cinner may be able to resist that for some time and keep Lifeline in tact just that much longer until he deals a fatal blow.

As for his reaction, seeing Lifeline get more damaged would just make him more ticked off and desperate to end the fight quickly. He’d be angry, but in the way it motivates you to play better. He’d weave the spikes as best he can while slipping in kicks and staff attacks. As for the bars, I’m assuming they completely surround Cinner? In that case he’d duck Spagm’s attack before destroying the cage and moving quick for a midair Lightning Breaker, pushing off either the air or a nearby building. As for Laser Nightmare, it’s a battle between Spagm’s calculations and Cinner’s own plus his senses. While he lacks in intelligence by comparison, Cinner may just be able to guard the lasers end like Kernel’s bullets ricocheting off the truck they fought on. He’d definitely be hard to outright overwhelm when he’s hyper focusing on the trajectory.

Wouldnt say an instant kill/incap, Spagm still has superior durability and last resort methods complicating one-shot. Cinner still has a good way of weakening Spagm's armor and each hit with a sharpened Lifeline seems to cause serious blows, there is a need for many to land though.

Spagmatron is more durable but what I meant was piercing his brain/core could get that kill regardless of durability. The body has weaknesses no matter how tough afterall. And while Spagmatron’s methods of healing are weakened, Cinner has his regen which can heal bones quickly active the whole time.

 

[Froggytron]

These are a ready good claims, I will take a look

Yeah, when he drove his own hand into him. The example was more just to show how good extrasensory abilities can be against a speed disadvantage, but I can see Cinner ducking under and either piercing with Lifeline or driving one of Spagm’s spikes into him like Naruto did.

Spagm still can negate the force by stretching the shadow liquid limb under the spike in the opposite direction, but would two attacking spikes strike nearby, I could see Cin deflecting the spike on another one to get a tiny opening. There is thh third spike as well though.

I see, though given the core is one of the easier places on the body to hit and the ducking scenario listed, I see Cinner destroying that core with his extension before the less essential things.

Given the importance of the central crystal (where Spagm's soul and true brain is), the soldier edition bodies used by FU should possess barrier layers made of bulletproof glass above them (still in terms of FU metal defense, having the same durability), the true core is in the middle of his torso, frontal and back visible crystals on the image are its extensions to use Red Laser more effectively. That also makes me realize that shattering the red crystal bits on Spagm's body (under his shoulders / in the back side of his foot / at the start of bubble shooting arms) should weaken him, as all of this helps to use Red Laser effectively and with big numbers, especially with the prison bar cells / Laser Nightmare type of attacks. All of these crystals (including the core inside) still are the toughest points on his armor, destroying one would take more than one hit.

It is a giant obvious glowing gem.

Agree that Cinner still could target these crystals despite them being the toughest, seeing how they menacingly glow with each more complicated Red Laser attack used.

Spagm’s armor regenerating may work on paper but the material he’s pulling in likely can’t take Cinner’s heat like he can so his method of recovery will be disabled long enough for proper damage to be done. As for pulling Lifeline, while I’ve not put an exact multiplier, PFM scales above regular Pure Form’s LS which while not Class T is close. So Cinner may be able to resist that for some time and keep Lifeline in tact just that much longer until he deals a fatal blow.

It's fair the around materials should be less durable than Spagm's original armor, the healing with them would really be put to test here. As for Lifeline pulling, the passively vacuuming 80% Frogman Physiology doesn't necessarily pull whole objects, but rather their atoms, to the naked eye it seems like the earth around gets slowly erased as it appears in Spagm's wounds. Not really sure how would Cinner's lifting strength help, the only factor helping seems to be how his live force circulates in Lifeline, which would slow the progress as 80% Frogman Physiology is best mainly at pulling inorganic materials. With time Lifeline will still be completely vaccumed. Another important claim is that the healing can compress the materials, for example, pulling 100 hundred times more mass of dirt & debris to create 100x more durable fixing.

As for his reaction, seeing Lifeline get more damaged would just make him more ticked off and desperate to end the fight quickly. He’d be angry, but in the way it motivates you to play better. He’d weave the spikes as best he can while slipping in kicks and staff attacks.

That makes sense when the Lifeline would be slowly disappearing out of his hands, more with each big damage made to Spagm xD

As for the bars, I’m assuming they completely surround Cinner? In that case he’d duck Spagm’s attack before destroying the cage and moving quick for a midair Lightning Breaker, pushing off either the air or a nearby building. As for Laser Nightmare, it’s a battle between Spagm’s calculations and Cinner’s own plus his senses. While he lacks in intelligence by comparison, Cinner may just be able to guard the lasers end like Kernel’s bullets ricocheting off the truck they fought on. He’d definitely be hard to outright overwhelm when he’s hyper focusing on the trajectory.

Yeah, the cells would form around him in inescapable cubes but would get less complicated with each small Red Laser fragment on Spagm's body shattered. Spagm can convert his power to grow them back very quickly, but that will quickly deprive him of a Charged State (more info about this will be on the Red Laser power page someday, telling the reasonings).

When would Cin use his forcefields? It's true they would get aged till disappearance by the lasers soon, but could temporarily protect him would a hit likely happen. Also how Cin's Non-Physical Interaction (Blocked bullets made of light) work? Despite all of this, it's hard to imagine Cinner would no-hit run before shattering the majority of Spagm's soldier body, mainly when Spagm has methods like Digi Shild to make his any attack guaranteed to land before Cin's aura makes the Digi Shild around him explode. With their distance it's still not spam-able, Spagm has to use it when he is farthest from Cin in combat, so the guaranteed hits won't target him as well

Spagmatron is more durable but what I meant was piercing his brain/core could get that kill regardless of durability. The body has weaknesses no matter how tough afterall. And while Spagmatron’s methods of healing are weakened, Cinner has his regen which can heal bones quickly active the whole time.

^ Already explained, plus there is also a last block of the defensive system as well, but that would prolong this reply further .__.

PS: Pardon for underlining so much text, Im marking the best definitions for myself to apply at FU profiles once the fight is over, to boost the explanation sense of complicated powers. This fight seems to generate a goldmine of good definitions.

 

[MintyBoi1]

These are a ready good claims, I will take a look

Spagm still can negate the force by stretching the shadow liquid limb under the spike in the opposite direction, but would two attacking spikes strike nearby, I could see Cin deflecting the spike on another one to get a tiny opening. There is thh third spike as well though.

Given the importance of the central crystal (where Spagm's soul and true brain is), the soldier edition bodies used by FU should possess barrier layers made of bulletproof glass above them (still in terms of FU metal defense, having the same durability), the true core is in the middle of his torso, frontal and back visible crystals on the image are its extensions to use Red Laser more effectively. That also makes me realize that shattering the red crystal bits on Spagm's body (under his shoulders / in the back side of his foot / at the start of bubble shooting arms) should weaken him, as all of this helps to use Red Laser effectively and with big numbers, especially with the prison bar cells / Laser Nightmare type of attacks. All of these crystals (including the core inside) still are the toughest points on his armor, destroying one would take more than one hit.

Agree that Cinner still could target these crystals despite them being the toughest, seeing how they menacingly glow with each more complicated Red Laser attack used.

It's fair the around materials should be less durable than Spagm's original armor, the healing with them would really be put to test here. As for Lifeline pulling, the passively vacuuming 80% Frogman Physiology doesn't necessarily pull whole objects, but rather their atoms, to the naked eye it seems like the earth around gets slowly erased as it appears in Spagm's wounds. Not really sure how would Cinner's lifting strength help, the only factor helping seems to be how his live force circulates in Lifeline, which would slow the progress as 80% Frogman Physiology is best mainly at pulling inorganic materials. With time Lifeline will still be completely vaccumed. Another important claim is that the healing can compress the materials, for example, pulling 100 hundred times more mass of dirt & debris to create 100x more durable fixing.

That makes sense when the Lifeline would be slowly disappearing out of his hands, more with each big damage made to Spagm xD

Yeah, the cells would form around him in inescapable cubes but would get less complicated with each small Red Laser fragment on Spagm's body shattered. Spagm can convert his power to grow them back very quickly, but that will quickly deprive him of a Charged State (more info about this will be on the Red Laser power page someday, telling the reasonings).

When would Cin use his forcefields? It's true they would get aged till disappearance by the lasers soon, but could temporarily protect him would a hit likely happen. Also how Cin's Non-Physical Interaction (Blocked bullets made of light) work? Despite all of this, it's hard to imagine Cinner would no-hit run before shattering the majority of Spagm's soldier body, mainly when Spagm has methods like Digi Shild to make his any attack guaranteed to land before Cin's aura makes the Digi Shild around him explode. With their distance it's still not spam-able, Spagm has to use it when he is farthest from Cin in combat, so the guaranteed hits won't target him as well

^ Already explained, plus there is also a last block of the defensive system as well, but that would prolong this reply further .__.

PS: Pardon for underlining so much text, Im marking the best definitions for myself to apply at FU profiles once the fight is over, to boost the explanation sense of complicated powers. This fight seems to generate a goldmine of good definitions.

Would he really be able to foresee something like that mid attack? He doesn’t have any prediction aside from calculations. Then again the speed advantage could let him do that.

If Cinner gets the chance, he’s going through the whole torso so as long as it’s in there, there’s a chance he hits it. I just noticed the smaller crystals so Cinner should take advantage once he sees all the red lasers coming from them. With his aura weakening Spagmatron’s defenses, it’ll be a lot easier than otherwise.

So it’s not just pulling in chunks, it’s straight pulling in the makeup. That’s kinda hardcore. Though I’m not sure any amount of debris or buildings can take 50000 degrees. Afterall 3000 can vaporize a person and 5000 degrees is enough to vaporize steel. I’ve found clumped up dirt can burn as well at far lower temperatures.

I’d be dead tweaking, gamer rage man.

I see, so to make them tough enough to hold he has to sacrifice his speed. I can see that being a hard choice since either way he loses a good perk. As for forcefields, Cin can’t use them in Pure Form since they already require a level of focusing on defense to activate. It’s like opening multiple tabs at once, it just messes things up. Not like he’s a huge forcefield user anyways, but it’s a good backup. And his non-phys just sorta works, like Black Star grabbing and throwing light, it doesn’t need logic. And yeah, Cinner will definitely take some hits from lasers and maybe some spike hits with the laser nightmare and cages mixed in.

I don’t mind the underlining at all, it makes responses easier with big ideas highlighted. Annotating 101.

 

[Froggytron]

Would he really be able to foresee something like that mid attack? He doesn’t have any prediction aside from calculations. Then again the speed advantage could let him do that.

Given how Cin evades, this is the precise thing at which the Red Laser speed/strength boost could be used, like a lock unlocking and locking the movements of his arm, so they don't hit him.

If Cinner gets the chance, he’s going through the whole torso so as long as it’s in there, there’s a chance he hits it.

Against this goes the final defensive mechanism, but activating it would mess up Spagm's play (unless Spagm is really at his last breath) similar to how Cin in pure form activates his forcefields and it screws up kinda. Spagm will have to put effort into protecting his core against this (not to need the last mechanism till the majority of his armor is devastated), which will reduce hits dealt at Cinner, as his offense cannot go at 100% with Cin being close. Altering strip walls of a laser above the torso rather than being on guard (would Cin aim here) could help, but the laser connection has a short delay, so it could be late.

I just noticed the smaller crystals so Cinner should take advantage once he sees all the red lasers coming from them. With his aura weakening Spagmatron’s defenses, it’ll be a lot easier than otherwise.

There is nothing (Spagm currently uses) coming from them, they help to cast the spells remotely. But when Cin sees crystals slightly glow just when big numbers of lasers appear on the battlefield, he connects these two observings.

So it’s not just pulling in chunks, it’s straight pulling in the makeup. That’s kinda hardcore.

Agree, this is the strongest effect of 80% Frogman Physiology (excelling with the manipulation of inorganic materials), even 100% Frogman Physiology cannot do this, as it rather generates its own organic body out of nothing but stamina and energy (as why Frogmen can regen crazily and do these tricks with their body). Would Frogman (100% Frogman Physiology) attempt this, his regen would screw with the body he is trying to make for himself, and Frogman would almost be damaging himself.

80% Frogman Physiology vacuuming still doesn't apply to organic/energy materials (at least before way higher levels than 3rd), Cinner himself won't be damaged, but his glasses would be disappearing slowly as well when I think about it

Though I’m not sure any amount of debris or buildings can take 50000 degrees. Afterall 3000 can vaporize a person and 5000 degrees is enough to vaporize steel. I’ve found clumped up dirt can burn as well at far lower temperatures.

That is true. What is helping is the recycling of shattered armor, the 80% Frogman Physiology does all to vacuum back shards of armor and merge them with the materials, which could help, given that the armor doesn't get destroyed by heat but simply softens. Obviously, the strengthening with shards gets worse with each shard being recycled for a second and another time, as the armor loses its structure or its bit vanish.

I’d be dead tweaking, gamer rage man.

His glasses would glow in white anger, just like when Avatar gets into serious mode

I see, so to make them tough enough to hold he has to sacrifice his speed. I can see that being a hard choice since either way he loses a good perk. As for forcefields, Cin can’t use them in Pure Form since they already require a level of focusing on defense to activate. It’s like opening multiple tabs at once, it just messes things up. Not like he’s a huge forcefield user anyways, but it’s a good backup. And his non-phys just sorta works, like Black Star grabbing and throwing light, it doesn’t need logic. And yeah, Cinner will definitely take some hits from lasers and maybe some spike hits with the laser nightmare and cages mixed in.

Couldn't Cinner grab the lasers (being made between the dots Spagm is casting) and ironically throw them as spears at Spagm, when he would get a spare arm or feet grip? Given that non-phys makes its own logic, this could be perhaps possible without getting burned with the effects, as Cin is neither trying to copy/power bestowal the lasers (against which Red Laser is highly resistant).

Spagm really won't see this coming, even if he can deactivate them remotely, this would be kind of heartbreaking for him :dd

I don’t mind the underlining at all, it makes responses easier with big ideas highlighted. Annotating 101.

Great! It helps me to orientate in the fight better

 

[Froggytron]

+ Given that Cinner's base key has Disease Manipulation (His abnormal vitality lets him recover from sicknesses quickly, he’s barely been ill for over a day), does his vitality strengthen as he goes powering up through the tourney and afterward journey, when all his other perks get stronger? Wondering how would the duo of regen and abnormal vitality react to cellular and DNA damage from radiation