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Questioning Pokemon Scaling
- Thread starter Dragonmasterxyz
- Start date
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- Tags
- pokémon
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- Thread starter
- #82
Nope as it is irrelevant now.
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- Thread starter
- #83
Okay, I think I have some issues; but first let me know one thing.
What feat are Babies scaled to?
What feat are First stages scaled to?
What feats are Second Stages scaled to?
What feats are Final Stages scaled to?
What feat are Babies scaled to?
What feat are First stages scaled to?
What feats are Second Stages scaled to?
What feats are Final Stages scaled to?
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I will comment as soon as I can.
I'm going out for a walk and a drink to chill out.
I'm going out for a walk and a drink to chill out.
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Back to Dragon's original question.
Pokemon that'd probably be Low 7-B despite being 1st forms would be Onix, Tangela, Lickitung, Scyther, Porygon, Aipom, Murkrow, Misdreavus, Gligar, Yanma, Sneasel, & Nosepass. Along with Mareanie.
Pokemon that'd be tier 6 despite being 2nd stages are Rhydon, Magneton, Piloswine, Porygon2, & Dusclops. They simply get an "At most"
Pokemon that'd probably be Low 7-B despite being 1st forms would be Onix, Tangela, Lickitung, Scyther, Porygon, Aipom, Murkrow, Misdreavus, Gligar, Yanma, Sneasel, & Nosepass. Along with Mareanie.
Pokemon that'd be tier 6 despite being 2nd stages are Rhydon, Magneton, Piloswine, Porygon2, & Dusclops. They simply get an "At most"
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What tier is Accelgor now?
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- Thread starter
- #88
@Cal
What's the reasoning behind that?
What's the reasoning behind that?
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Because they didn't stop being strong Pokemon after getting an evolution as you said.
On a related note, we sorta have an unspoken rule that evolutions of babies scale to 8-As instead of Low 7-Bs when in reality, only Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Clefairy are like this.
Also, tack on Eeveelutions + Raichu to the staying list. I forgot they were Starter Evos.
Finally, should Pikachu clones scale to Pikachu and be 8-A or non-evolvers and be Low 7-B?
On a related note, we sorta have an unspoken rule that evolutions of babies scale to 8-As instead of Low 7-Bs when in reality, only Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Clefairy are like this.
Also, tack on Eeveelutions + Raichu to the staying list. I forgot they were Starter Evos.
Finally, should Pikachu clones scale to Pikachu and be 8-A or non-evolvers and be Low 7-B?
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The Pokédex says that Elekids are able to fight Togedomaru. So they probably only scale to Pikachu.
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- Thread starter
- #91
bump
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Let's just scale everyone to Arceus
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- Thread starter
- #93
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Scald Arceus down to meteor level. All Pokemon can beat Arceus with enough exp and moveset. Verse is now meteor level.
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All hail 2-B Magikarp.Maverick Zero X said:
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I meant to type scale but Scald works better than I thought.
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- Thread starter
- #97
BUMP
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I'm curious, do have any standard for statistic amp/reduc when it comes to Pokemon?
In game they can at most 4x with stat amp and make there opponents at most 4x weaker. This is probably just game mechanics but I don't know what we do with these.
In game they can at most 4x with stat amp and make there opponents at most 4x weaker. This is probably just game mechanics but I don't know what we do with these.
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Its actually amps and reductions backed by set multipliers
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So we do accept the in-game multipliers? if so a lot of pokemon might gets upgrades via statistic boosting.
Looking at the results of the calcs that give non-legendaries their ap/dura ratings all of the would be boosted up to the next tier if multiplied by 4.
Looking at the results of the calcs that give non-legendaries their ap/dura ratings all of the would be boosted up to the next tier if multiplied by 4.
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Assuming stats with the game multiplier values is really questionable imo.
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True, I'm just saiyan.
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- Thread starter
- #104
We are still waiting on Kepe's comment.
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- #105
bump....
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- #106
Highlighting for more imput before this thing dies.
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Hmm... about speed.
Babies are scaled to Transonic from Cleffa and Caterpie attacks.
1st stages are Massively Hypersonic+ from the Pokémon that use electricity.
2st stages are Sub-Relativistic from throwing items in Mistery Dungeon.
3rd stages are Relativistic from Manga Poliwrath dodging doom desire.
However some Pok├¿mon like Golem are moviment wise very slow compared to fast Pokémon like Ninjask, so they should only have that speed as combat and reaction speed.
Lastly the max stats are referred when they are at very high level, a early already Charizard is not already Relativistic, High 6-C. I'd like that all the Pokémon profiles [I already took care of the trainers and leggendaries] are subjected to a cleanup and a better justification instead of reusing the same one.
Babies are scaled to Transonic from Cleffa and Caterpie attacks.
1st stages are Massively Hypersonic+ from the Pokémon that use electricity.
2st stages are Sub-Relativistic from throwing items in Mistery Dungeon.
3rd stages are Relativistic from Manga Poliwrath dodging doom desire.
However some Pok├¿mon like Golem are moviment wise very slow compared to fast Pokémon like Ninjask, so they should only have that speed as combat and reaction speed.
Lastly the max stats are referred when they are at very high level, a early already Charizard is not already Relativistic, High 6-C. I'd like that all the Pokémon profiles [I already took care of the trainers and leggendaries] are subjected to a cleanup and a better justification instead of reusing the same one.
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The real cal howard said:
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I agree with Dark. Magcargo, Regirock, etc. can have those speeds in reaction and combat speeds only, and even then, I don't think at any point you could justify Magcargo using a move like Body Slam at relativistic speeds. >_> These Pokemon get speedblitzed even in-game 99% of the time for a reason.
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Maybe bringing this is up is a bad idea, as it could start drama or such, but I am curious about if this could influence tiering:
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...e_sort_of_calc_sort_of_regarding_Onix_and_ice
In Pokemon Stadium 1 & 2, Pokemon like Smoochum can freeze Pokemon like Onix, & when such a Pokemon is frozen, a large amount of ice is created. So one can assume Smoochum freezing Onix generated all that ice. (Also, I really wish someone could get me better footage; Nobody idles to let the camera move & do you know how rare it is to see a frozen Onix?!)
Similarly, Pokemon like Magby can use Fire-type moves, which are guaranteed to thaw a Frozen Pokemon.
Also, it's apparently not applicable (I'm not really sold on it, but we do apparently dismiss Affection dialogue as not useable.) but both Generation 6 & Generation 7 provide a consistent means for Affectionate Pokemon to cure themselves of the Freeze status.
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Affection#Battle_quotes
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...e_sort_of_calc_sort_of_regarding_Onix_and_ice
In Pokemon Stadium 1 & 2, Pokemon like Smoochum can freeze Pokemon like Onix, & when such a Pokemon is frozen, a large amount of ice is created. So one can assume Smoochum freezing Onix generated all that ice. (Also, I really wish someone could get me better footage; Nobody idles to let the camera move & do you know how rare it is to see a frozen Onix?!)
Similarly, Pokemon like Magby can use Fire-type moves, which are guaranteed to thaw a Frozen Pokemon.
Also, it's apparently not applicable (I'm not really sold on it, but we do apparently dismiss Affection dialogue as not useable.) but both Generation 6 & Generation 7 provide a consistent means for Affectionate Pokemon to cure themselves of the Freeze status.
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Affection#Battle_quotes
<Pokémon> melted the ice with its fiery determination so that <Trainer> wouldn't worry!XYORAS <Pokémon> melted the ice with its fiery determination so you wouldn't worry!SMUSUM Supposing such feats are applicable to Baby Pokemon, would it be likely to affect what we scale them to &/or rate them as on pages? |
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This is a good base, I do something simillar to the Digimon Calcs for Child and Babys and I don't think that for Pokémon this isn't usable. If there are many of these feats to calc, this could be used very well to scale the low-level characters.
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Neat. Although, I don't know of much other Baby Pokemon scaling, unless anime feats are involved. And even then, the anime may be a questionable source, or not easy to search through for feats. For one, PIS may be involved with many protagonists not evolving multiple Pokemon.
There's the above mentioned Elekid scaling to Togedemaru, but that seems like it's treated an outlier. Brock's Happiny had incredible strength, & at least 1 feat to show it, but IIRC, it was considered abnormally strong for the species in the first place; Ergo, an Outlier for Happiny kind.
Riolu have a remarkable stamina & possibly speed feat, but that doesn't change tier, & Riolu might be considered a bit stronger than other Baby Pokemon because of its relation to Lucario anyway.
"Its body is lithe yet powerful. It can crest three mountains and cross two canyons in one night."
So yeah. We have Cleffa's meteor crash feat, Smoochum & Magby being able to create/melt huge blocks of ice via their attacks, going by Pokemon Stadium animations....
(If we were to accept Affection Dialogue despite that it could be argued as Game Mechanics, that'd technically also give a much smaller ice melting feat, but for every species of Pokemon that can receive Affection, lol.)
Unless there's some scaling to be found, or maybe some feats from the anime or other non-games media, I think Baby Pokemon just have those 3 feats supporting them being above Wall Level. Nothing wrong with proving me wrong, though.
There's the above mentioned Elekid scaling to Togedemaru, but that seems like it's treated an outlier. Brock's Happiny had incredible strength, & at least 1 feat to show it, but IIRC, it was considered abnormally strong for the species in the first place; Ergo, an Outlier for Happiny kind.
Riolu have a remarkable stamina & possibly speed feat, but that doesn't change tier, & Riolu might be considered a bit stronger than other Baby Pokemon because of its relation to Lucario anyway.
"Its body is lithe yet powerful. It can crest three mountains and cross two canyons in one night."
So yeah. We have Cleffa's meteor crash feat, Smoochum & Magby being able to create/melt huge blocks of ice via their attacks, going by Pokemon Stadium animations....
(If we were to accept Affection Dialogue despite that it could be argued as Game Mechanics, that'd technically also give a much smaller ice melting feat, but for every species of Pokemon that can receive Affection, lol.)
Unless there's some scaling to be found, or maybe some feats from the anime or other non-games media, I think Baby Pokemon just have those 3 feats supporting them being above Wall Level. Nothing wrong with proving me wrong, though.
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Semi related but many of the profiles don't even link for the calculation putting them at High 6-C rating, and that's a pretty bad thing when 3/4ths of the profiles have it as an stat, I feel like it should be obligatory to at least put this in the verse page.
There are also other pokes like Solgaleo/Lunala/Necro having no actual calculation linked to their page justifying their rating, if you read the justification for it you end up with the three profiles linking back to one another creating some circular scaling, that one is outright wrong because 4-B is too big of a tier for one to assume where they even stand.
There are also other pokes like Solgaleo/Lunala/Necro having no actual calculation linked to their page justifying their rating, if you read the justification for it you end up with the three profiles linking back to one another creating some circular scaling, that one is outright wrong because 4-B is too big of a tier for one to assume where they even stand.
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