Questioning Pokemon Scaling

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I just want to say that just because a few pokemon are known to be much slower than that of other pokemon doesn't mean only their reaction/combat speeds don't scale.

Isnt it very plausible to say their speeds are just at a lower end of X speed when compared to other Mon? It seems more Occam's Razor to say that then to say the slower mon are multiple stages slower.

That's just what I think.

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

I highly disagree that it's an Occam's Razor, when the anime and other sources themselves have noted how slow these Pokemon move even in day-to-day getting around. It makes zero sense that they'd have relativistic travel/movement speed, even on the low-end, with that in mind. Their combat projectiles and the like might move that fast, and they might be able to react, but they can't feasibly move much at those speeds.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I never agreed with the much slower mons scaling to Rel movement speed in the first place if I may be so blunt. Never have, never will.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Taken from the standard format for character profiles:

Speed: It is generally "Combat Speed" (in bold)

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

@Cal

Come one Cal. Do not use that as you know damn well that people specify separate speeds on other profiles. If you list one speed, that means all your speeds are that fast. Standard format be damned.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Just because I'm listing the reason for it doesn't mean I'm justifying it.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I highly disagree that it's an Occam's Razor, when the anime and other sources themselves have noted how slow these Pokemon move even in day-to-day getting around. It makes zero sense that they'd have relativistic travel/movement speed, even on the low-end, with that in mind. Their combat projectiles and the like might move that fast, and they might be able to react, but they can't feasibly move much at those speeds.

Because these wild day by day Pokemon arent exactly on a traveling trip to use that kind of speed. They have no reason to use that speed every day. A cheetah is able to travel up to (or above, forgot exactly) 60 mph. Doesnt mean it literally needs to do that all the time in the wild. So why would a pokemon need to?

Edit: Nope, its above.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Kukui

Well cheetahs don't move at max speed to travel, but they do walk at a brisk pace. A "brisk pace" to a high end relativistic would circling the planet in a second. Light is just too stupid fast.

 

[Keiyu]

Wouldn't they have to in combat situations?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I'd like to think of all the times a FTL character in fiction has taken a single step forward and they aren't in another country then ovo

 

[TriforcePower1]

I'd like to think of all the times a FTL character in fiction has taken a single step forward and they aren't in another country then ovo

Or every time some tier 4/3 guy walking on the planet without destroying it

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Kukui

I mean humanoid characters would probably relagate their speed to incredibly slow paces comparative to their true speed. Animals wouldn't impose this limitation on themselves in all likelihood.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Well if these animals/pokemon were more predator like, as in they constantly chase whatevers in their path for prey purposes, I'd probably agree with that as then they'd have a reason to actually use their speeds.

But since it's a wild creature, who're just living at their own daily convienence, im sure they would want to regulate their speeds so they don't end up traveling to an area out of their comfort zone (ex: a grass pokemon in a forest. Without regulation, its speed would likely take it to an area the opposite of what its used to).

That said, even with this reason im not against some pokemon being lower in travel/movement speeds. It should be more case by case.

 

[Kepekley23]

It's more like the Pokémon are not being portrayed as Relativistic at that moment in time. Let's not try to excuse the low ends.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

More like they don't have Relativistic feats.

 

[Dark649]

Yeah, the throwing items stuff and doom desire dodging have both issues in them, but.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Someone should really calc all the light dodging feats in the verse

 

[Dark649]

More like they don't have Relativistic feats.

What about Solar beam then, at what speed do you think that beam is?.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

There's like five different pokemon moves that would qualify as lightspeed

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Sub sonic obviously ovo

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

This is getting a bit absurd.

IDK about the throwing items bit, but im not seeing the issue with Doom Desire being Rel in speed.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Solarbeam is never implied to be pure light. Only energy gained from gathering sunlight.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Solarbeam is never implied to be pure light. Only energy gained from gathering sunlight.

Im pretty sure Cal had something that proved it was pure light in one of his calc blogs but I don't remember which one.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Going by official descriptions it isn't.

The strongest Grass-type attack. Energy is absorbed in the first turn, then fired the next turn.
	~ Pokemon Stadium​

Strongest Grass-type attack. Energy is absorbed in the first turn, then fired on the next.
	~ Pokemon Stadium 2​

1st turn: Prepare 2nd turn: Attack
	~ Gen ll​

Absorbs light in one turn, then attacks next turn.* Absorbs sunlight in the 1st turn, then attacks next turn.*
	~ Gen lll​

A 2-turn move that blasts the foe with absorbed energy in the 2nd turn.
	~ FRLG​

A two-turn attack. The user gathers light, then blasts a bundled beam on the second turn.
	~ Gen lV-V​

A two-turn attack. The user gathers light, then blasts a bundled beam on the next turn.
	~ Gen Vl​

In this two-turn attack, the user gathers light, then blasts a bundled beam on the next turn.
	~ Gen Vll​

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

That is exactly like Doom Desire's description so how is Doom Desire light speed if Solar Beam isn't?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

4 of those statements literally say that light, natural sunlight, are gathered and then fired as a beam.

How is that not light speed if the beam itself is made up of actual light?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

In Doom Desire's case, it was accepted due to being stated to being a beam of light.

Whether that's acceptable anymore idk.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

There's also Flash

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

4 of those statements literally say that light, natural sunlight, are gathered and then fired as a beam.
How is that not light speed if the beam itself is made up of actual light?

Using light to create a stored blast of energy? That's literally what the description says.

 

[Kepekley23]

Doom Desire was accepted because it was stated to be sunlight, if I remember correctly.

Flash has been accepted as an outlier several times by now.

 

[Dark649]

Manga Poliwrath dodging Doom Desire is only reaction speed, not movement speed.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Kep How exactly is it an outlier if another attack of the same function was accepted as legit...? And there's a few others who have the same description.

 

[Kepekley23]

Flash's feat was FTL

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Using light to create a stored blast of energy? That's literally what the description says.

Because light is a form of energy. Im not seeing what the problem is.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Flash Cannon is the same functionality-wise as Doom Desire

Light of Ruin is light

Origin Pulse is light

Power Gem is light

Flash is light

Signal Beam is light

Techno Blast is light

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Just because I gather Sunlight to make something doesn't make said attack lightspeed unless directly stated to be sunlight. However, this make the difference between pure sunlight and a blast of energy to be two different things.

It's sunlight that becomes stored energy for a blast.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Just because I gather Sunlight to make something doesn't make said attack lightspeed unless directly stated to be sunlight. However, this make the difference between pure sunlight and a blast of energy to be two different things.

But...it is stated to be sunlight though. In the quoted statements that you yourself posted dude.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Dragon It is actually directly stated to be sunlight

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

The energy ABSORBED is sunlight. The blast of energy is never stated to be a blast of sunlight, but a blast of energy gathered from absorbing sunlight. This does not make it light speed. But I will drop this.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Even discarding the fact that gathering sunlight to fire it in a Beam is good evidence in itself, Solar Beam is shot from a mini sun and was called a light in the anime by something with legitimate scientific backing. Along with the fact that we've been had the discussion that it was accepted to be natural light moths ago, I don't even know why we're having this conversation on it.