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Pre-Crisis Superman vs Jiren

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LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
"People are so desperate" you were OH so close to make that a nice comment and you had to end it in that note.
Word of advice, don't do or say that again. If you have arguments that are sound to refute what someone says, go right ahead. Implying on someone having to bend logic backwards so Superman can win when he's calmly explaining and even providing evidence does not warrant that kind of comment.

Threads with certain characters like Superman really don't warrant that kind of comment, is asking for a derail you do not want in most cases.

That said, it feels a bit too silly that younger Jiren is protected under the umbrella of "not on Earth, on another universe" because of the circumstances, but I can't think of a sensible alternative.
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Because there is no other alternative. Even if Superman and Jiren existed in the same universe I would STILL question how Superman would even find a younger Jiren. They have no foreknowledge of one another due to SBA so Superman has no real method to find young Jiren within the same universe let alone another universe.

It's ultimately hax that has no real effect here. Hell, I would argue that using it would arguably make Superman lose as a result of essentially leaving Jiren behind to hunt down a young Jiren and fail to do so.
 
JackJoyce said:
I think there's a few things that need to be addressed
Superman's BFR came from colliding with Superboy sending both of them back in time It's not something useful in combat
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Actually, he has shown he can send people back in time through other means. Like the time he did it Titano , Jimmy Olse (hell, he did it on accident in the first place ) , and when Bizarro did it to him. Hell, that last one literally is combat applicable since it was done in combat. Superman would've easily been BFR'd if he couldn't also travel in time.

Also, in response to cryo. This is a guy that was able to locate a dead universe in the time it takes him to sneeze,and is able to use his telescopic vision t o literally see into the past . Hell, one time Doctor Light sent the entire Justice League throughout the Universe , and according to the caption, also time , to different death worlds that would kill them without fail, even ones that shouldn't technically exist , and Superman was able to find 3 of them at the same time, despite being placed throughout the universe, almost instanteously. It actually wouldn't surprise me if he could find a young jiren after only meeting the guy for a nanosecond. I mean, even Post-Crisis Superman's vision is so precise that he can tell that exact copies of people from separate universes or even perfect lones are different because of minor differences in their biology. Now i agree that this wouldn't be a first case scenario for Supes, even if he's out for blood, and it would take a little bit of time, but it is something he can and will be able to do.

And this is a bloodlusted Superman... so him being desperate for a kill isn't out of character in this scenario.
 
Okay but that depends on which time period Superman even goes to (even assuming he can find Jiren's universe which is completely distinct and separate from Superman's multiverse). We don't know how strong Jiren was when he was younger. The only time period he would be vulnerable is child Jiren.

Even so would killing a child Jiren even effect adult Jiren in this instance?
 
If supes went back in time from sbas location of central park

He would be in central park in the past

He would then have to find universe 11 and then find jirens planet and him before running out of time due to self bfr
 
To be fair, speed equal doesn't change the fact that both characters are hilariously MFTL+, so that point is entirely moot.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
Okay but that depends on which time period Superman even goes to (even assuming he can find Jiren's universe which is completely distinct and separate from Superman's multiverse). We don't know how strong Jiren was when he was younger. The only time period he would be vulnerable is child Jiren.

Even so would killing a child Jiren even effect adult Jiren in this instance?
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I thought in this instance we were under the assumption that they are both in the same universe and under a neutral timeline argument? I remember people saying as such earlier in the thread, though i might be wrong.

Now i'm not sure about finding another multiverse, don't know if he could find it as easily, but i think even under DBZ rules, Superman changing the timeline to erase Jiren isn't too out of the question. Remember, he was able, under his own power, to create an attack so powerful it rewrote and recreated every possible earth future, and was stated by the Green Lantern of the future to be able to alter the very flow of time across all timelines. So he could potentially use that attack to erase Jiren from all of Universe 11's timelines, and possible erase him or kill him off for good (though that does imply that Superman can do that move manually, or that you don't consider that feat an outlier.)
 
I'm confused, if it is considered an outlier, then why is the feat still used on his page? It's states pretty clearly that he's altering all the timelines anyway, so why would only part of it be discarded by not the whole thing? Also wouldn't the other Supergirl feat of hurting, a admittedly, weakened Anti-Monitor also be proof that him being beyond Universal+ to not just be an outlier?

Anyway, if it considered an outlier, and timeline's are considered seperate, then Superman's only option would be to BFR Jiren to another time period, and if he can't do that, then Jiren would win with AP difference.
 
Forgive my impudence but I'm not saying anything wrong. Superman traveling to the past for killing Jiren is a flawed argument. It'd result to a self BFR
 
Jared1111 said:
Actually, he has shown he can send people back in time through other means. Like the time he did it Titano , Jimmy Olse (hell, he did it on accident in the first place ) , and when Bizarro did it to him. Hell, that last one literally is combat applicable since it was done in combat. Superman would've easily been BFR'd if he couldn't also travel in time.
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Yes he can time travel and send others through time. But that requires accelerating the person or rotating him. Which I highly doubt Jiren will let him do
 
And I don't understand what's your point. A flawed argument doesn't need a comment like that, actually argue why it's flawed instead of needing to directly question the intention of the commenter. That's just being rude with no need at best and asking for a needless problem at worst.
 
Forgive my impudence but I'm not saying anything wrong. Superman traveling to the past for killing Jiren is a flawed argument. It'd result to a self BFR

Which means nothing because Jiren would be dead from it.

BFR is a day anyway, so Supes has more then enough time to do it in that case

That's not a good reason for it being flawed. A better one would be them originating from different universe
 
Yeah I still see no reasoning for why Superman cannot just phase through the attacks and then mind hax.

Also the argument that Jiren just senses and glares in his direction is implying that Superman has no time to act at all. Which is flawed. Pre Crisis Superman isn't the type of guy to see an attack devasting everything infront of him and take it all on because pride.
 
EmperorRorepme said:
Yeah I still see no reasoning for why Superman cannot just phase through the attacks and then mind hax.
Also the argument that Jiren just senses and glares in his direction is implying that Superman has no time to act at all. Which is flawed. Pre Crisis Superman isn't the type of guy to see an attack devasting everything infront of him and take it all on because pride.
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You can't see the glare dude.

He just looks at you and you get telekinetically ripped apart.
 
EmperorRorepme said:
Since when? Isn't it just high-speed ki-blasts? Like when he glared at Blue Goku and he was hit with red ki blasts.
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No Jiren's eyes turn red, but the glare is just a glare.

Here's an example of Jiren glaring away Vegeta's Final Flash.
 
Rly odd imo that Superman has 2 feats above 2C yet still low 2C. Also what phantom zone feat is everyone talking about? Superman somewhat fought AM and Restored a timeline by overpowering the energy that affected it in the first place. The energy that came from a 2A character. He shud be atleast 2C imo
 
Well it was supposedly pre bc it was mentioned on his ctr when he was upgraded to 2c. But yea, I think even though we teir, superman's attack potency can range higher than the rating given to him
 
No, Jiren's glare isn't a Kiai or Ki Blast. It cannot be sensed in the traditional way or else people like Goku and Vegeta would've seen it from miles away (Especially Goku who's able to accurately determine one's position a few steps into the future and counter accordingly somehow). If Jiren Glares, Superman would have no indication besides "Omae wa mou shindeiru" eyes.

Edit: and if you really want to get technical with that video, Jiren glared away Hit's Time Cage ability. Jiren glared away time hax.

And no, Emperor. That is not a close-range Ki Barrier since we explicitly see his eyes doing the glare along with the effect that comes with it. A close-range barrier would be more akin to something like Goku creating one to resist poison. Besides, Ki Barriers are pretty much passive for DB Characters in order to enhance their durability with Ki.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
And I don't understand what's your point. A flawed argument doesn't need a comment like that, actually argue why it's flawed instead of needing to directly question the intention of the commenter. That's just being rude with no need at best and asking for a needless problem at worst.
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Well I already apologized. No need to make a big fuss about it
 
EmperorRorepme said:
Yeah I still see no reasoning for why Superman cannot just phase through the attacks and then mind hax.

Also the argument that Jiren just senses and glares in his direction is implying that Superman has no time to act at all. Which is flawed. Pre Crisis Superman isn't the type of guy to see an attack devasting everything infront of him and take it all on because pride.
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There's a glare which is defensive barrier/attack reflection and another which is ki blasts. Superman might phase through em. But he'll eventually get killed when Jiren will tag him with his punches. Mindhax is a unlikely scenario and I don't think PC Superman has ever done it in between a serious fight. Also I doubt if they works on someone equal/stronger than him
 
Well I already apologized. No need to make a big fuss about it

?

How did he make a fuss, he just asked that you explain why it was flawed
 
After reading through this whole thread from start to finish, Jiren basically has Superman in check as soon as he glares at him.

Superman can't apply mindhax instanteously without concentrating, so it also leaves him phsyically defenseless. Time traveling is inapplicable in this match. Heat vision is basically repelled by the glare. So Jiren FRA.
 
Assuming Jiren doesn't glare away an entire Universe, yes.

Also, Jiren can just incap.
 
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