Power Nullification, Resistance Negation, and Negation

[Firephoenixearl]

Technically, Power Null is a sub-power of Negation, so my suggestion was if two pages needs to be deleted then that would be Power Null and Resistance Null; however, people is more familiarized with Power Null.

I do agree with that, though as you and Prom stated, the power null is FAR more used. Power Null still sounds better imo, and is the overall better choice here since: Negation has 3 categories: Negation of traits

power null

Res neg

While Power Null has far more ways to power null:

via Power erasure

via Power modification

via Type 2 sealing

via power negating etc

 

[Promestein]

"I think the description of negation should just be changed to piercing through or ignoring things like resistance, intangibility etc instead of shutting them down."

That's not necessarily what Power Null means, though.

 

[Andytrenom]

It is how a lot of examples of negation are, allowing the user to hit through an ability of the target, which would have otherwise blocked off their attempt.

I'm actually still a bit unsure if negation has to be merged with power null instead of being it's own thing.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I noticed this recently and I agree that their only needs to be one but I'm unsure which is better. Tho I'd be leaning towards Negation staying but that's just me.

Not saying Prom is wrong tho.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I noticed this recently and I agree that their only needs to be one but I'm unsure which is better. Tho I'd be leaning towards Negation staying but that's just me.
Not saying Prom is wrong tho.

Well ofc negation is the big daddy of these, though changing thousands of profiles as opposed to changing around a hundred, imma say the latter sounds like the better option.

 

[Promestein]

Negation is redundant and barely used as is. It being its own thing accomplishes nothing, honestly. It just confuses matters.

 

[Antoniofer]

Any time Power Null is used Negation is used as well, so not quite under used (just at theoric levels, at level of wiki the page of power null is used more).

 

[Promestein]

You're arguing semantics for a page that has virtually no purpose. The page is barely rendered distinct from Power Null - and really only in the "Power Null is a type of this" department, while everything else is more or less identical.

 

[Andytrenom]

Yeah, the "official" description of it is definitely redundant with Power Null. What I would like to say is that the way it is actually used on many profiles it essentially functions as piercing, bypassing or ignoring abilities rather than nullifying it in the way it's described on the profile.

So changing it's description to match that may work better than getting rid of it outright.

Tho if there actually are much more profiles which use it's exact definition, then your proposal works for me and I guess we can just create a new power related to bypassing resistances distinct from power null.

 

[Promestein]

"essentially functions as piercing, bypassing or ignoring abilities rather than nullifying it in the way it's described on the profile."

Many pages use Power Null for this exact same thing.

 

[Antoniofer]

Power null do not ignore resistances, only those that are granted by powers.

I have no issues with Prom's suggestion, but Negation do much more than nullify powers or resistances/immunities.

 

[Promestein]

Many pages beg to differ.

 

[Andytrenom]

Really? Well, I am not sure if I agree with power null being used that way.

 

[Promestein]

Any more issues?

 

[Andytrenom]

Just one question and I apologize if it's a stupid one...

If you use a bot to change replace all instances of negation, would that turn things like Regenerationn Negation into Regenerationn Power Nullification?

 

[Promestein]

I mean, yeah. But I'm not gonna do that. I'd just make Negation a redirect to Power Nullification and change the categories.

 

[Andytrenom]

I don't have any big problem then. At least not regarding the actual topic of the thread.

 

[Promestein]

Alright.

 

[Agnaa]

Just one question and I apologize if it's a stupid one...

If you use a bot to change replace all instances of negation, would that turn things like Regenerationn Negation into Regenerationn Power Nullification?

Couldn't you get around this by changing all instances of "|Negation]]" and "[[Negation]]" to "|Nullification]]" and "[[Nullification]]"

 

[Magi_Hussie]

"Power null do not ignore resistances, only those that are granted by powers.

I have no issues with Prom's suggestion, but Negation do much more than nullify powers or resistances/immunities."

@Anton You do have a great viewpoint on why Power Null is considered and works differently than other negation-based abilities since power null may not work on other specific powers or it will be just nullification in general, if that were the case.

@Agnaa I suppose so and the idea of linking any other negation-based abilities other than power null to Nullifcation doesn't sound too bad.

 

[Promestein]

Here's what the page would look like, more or less.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Looks good

 

[Andytrenom]

I really think Regenerationn negation should be a different power since, like I have said before, you aren't nullifying your opponent's ability to regenerate in general, just making the specific wounds dealt by you irreversible.

 

[Agnaa]

I really think Regenerationn negation should be a different power since, like I have said before, you aren't nullifying your opponent's ability to regenerate in general, just making the specific wounds dealt by you irreversible.

It depends exactly on how the Regenerationn negation functions. Sometimes it stops all regen, sometimes it just stops it from your specific wounds.

 

[Andytrenom]

I'm only talking about the latter case, stopping all regen would be clear cut power null.

 

[Agnaa]

So some regen nullification would have its own page, and some would just be power null that only affects regen?

 

[Andytrenom]

Maybe? I do wish to create a page for it, but I'll have to check first if it's common enough for one.

 

[Promestein]

You could make an independent page for it if you wanted. It's still good to mention it on the Power Null page, as they are currently associated on the wiki.

 

[Andytrenom]

Yeah, I've actually already started on a standbox.

Btw, the non-magical type of power null will soon be added right?

 

[Promestein]

General supernatural negation is like the most common and generic form of Power Null. I figured a brief acknowledgment of it in the summary was enough.

 

[Crzer07]

I thought power null is a subset of negation. Then again there's also resistance and durability negation, perhaps it be easier if it's renamed to power negation

 

[Promestein]

We've already discussed that. It is, but the Negation page is very rarely used and essentially identical to the Power Null page. It's better to combine the pages and go with the term that's already used.

 

[Promestein]

Bump.

 

[Elizhaa]

We've already discussed that. It is, but the Negation page is very rarely used and essentially identical to the Power Null page. It's better to combine the pages and go with the term that's already used.

I agree with this point.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

So this is going to be changed when? And also when is the Power Null revamp gonna be?

 

[Promestein]

If everyone's fine with it I can change it now. I think a revision adding numerical types isn't a great idea.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

If everyone's fine with it I can change it now. I think a revision adding numerical types isn't a great idea.

Why not?

We really should stop treating ALL types of power null as 1 and the same. Power Null is TOO wide to get that treatment.

 

[Promestein]

No one treats it like that and the replacement I've written and drafted specifies it as such too. Adding types just makes the change more work.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Then just mentioning the types, then a note at the end that "resistance cannot be applied the same everywhere"? I mean maybe not adding numerical types, but at least mentioning the types of power null is needed. And about adding more work i doubt that would be so. We could just use Power Null and not mention the type. Like how we do with Existence Erasure where we don't need to mention whether it's done via destruction or reality warping.

 

[Promestein]

Anyone? Can I just go ahead?