Power Nullification, Resistance Negation, and Negation

[Promestein]

They're already basically used interchangeably regardless of how you personally define it. Negation is barely used anyways, and when it is, it's the same as what Power Nullification says on its page and is already used for on other pages. It's not because it "makes sense", it's because that's more accurate to the pages and how both are generally used.

I don't understand at all how you came to that conclusion. It makes zero sense.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Power Null already has problems with resistances. Adding more to the cake will only make things worse.

 

[Promestein]

I don't get what you're saying but resistance issues can generally be dealt with by just explaining the extent of the resistance, either on the character's page or on a thread. Not a big deal. People will extrapolate and misunderstand regardless of what's on the Power Null page anyways.

 

[Wokistan]

If you want to do something like resurrection/regen negation, you can always just do something like this. [[Power Nullification|Negation of resurrection and Regenerationn]]

 

[Firephoenixearl]

What i would be ok with is adding those on Power Null, so:

Power Null ... blah blah summary

Types:

Resistance Nullfication - Description

Power Modification - Makes a power useless by altering or removing it's effects

Traits Negation - (so nulling stuff like immortalities, regen, non corporeality etc, so basically parts of a being that are not powers but rather innate traits of someone)

Power Negation- Prevents the activtion of powers.

.... (other versions of Power Null)

And when it comes to power null abilities and resistances we can just put the type in (like how we do with immortalities, acausality, regen etc).

So what im saying is: i'd be ok with removing negation and Res neg if we do a revamp on the Power Null page

 

[Promestein]

Yes. That was the idea. I mentioned it before. Would other people like more Power Nullification types? Like a proper typing number system, as we have with his examples?

Power Modification has other applications, though. I don't think it should be collapsed onto the page.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yes. That was the idea. I mentioned it before. Would other people like more Power Nullification types? Like a proper typing number system, as we have with his examples?
Power Modification has other applications, though. I don't think it should be collapsed onto the page.

Not collapsed, mentioned.

So Power null VIA Power Modification. Power Modification has a ton of other uses.

 

[Promestein]

Sounds good.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yes. That was the idea. I mentioned it before. Would other people like more Power Nullification types? Like a proper typing number system, as we have with his examples?
Power Modification has other applications, though. I don't think it should be collapsed onto the page.

Also sry if you mentioned the revamp part, i missed it.

I can also make the thread for the Power Nullification revamp if that's ok.

 

[Promestein]

I'll make a thread for it soon, organize all the thoughts and suggestions here. It'd turn into kind of a revision given all the pages that would be affected if we go with numerical types

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok, i fully agree with the OP then.

Should we decide on the types here or another thread?

 

[Promestein]

Bumping this to get more input.

 

[Elizhaa]

I'll make a thread for it soon, organize all the thoughts and suggestions here. It'd turn into kind of a revision given all the pages that would be affected if we go with numerical types

If it has numerical types, then I agree with the OP, Promestei.

 

[Antoniofer]

Power Null and Resistance Null are sub-powers/technics of Negations. Negation utilities could be nullifying powers, healing factor, invulnerabilities, status effects, more complex ones would be negating events and laws. If any, Negation would be the one that should remain and then expand its content.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I think I agree with Antonio on this, if pages are getting deleted then negation should be the one that stays

 

[Magi_Hussie]

Negation should stay and it's rather actually the other way around @Prom. Power Null is a type of Negation ability.

 

[Promestein]

Power Null is by far the more commonly used page here. Negation is a fairly recent and little used page, even if it encompasses Power Nullification. Removing and moving the rarely used Negation page to the effectively identical (especially when it comes to usage) Power Null page doesn't cause problems. The other way around does, given that Power Null is the term used for this ability everywhere else on the wiki.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Prom That may be true but expanding the list of Negation-based abilities on the Negation page usually helps improve it by a lo rather than just only having power nullification. We don't have to remove the Power Null page as it can still be used to give an in-depth detail about how the ability works though as a sub-power of Negation.

 

[Promestein]

That just confuses the issue more because the terms are used interchangeably. What goes to Power Null? What goes to Negation? How many pages will be affected? Why do we have the two pages when everyone uses them for the same things?

 

[Elizhaa]

Here are the lists, Promestei:

Negation

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Negation?limit=500

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/S...egation+Users&limit=500&wpSubmit=Find+matches


Power Nullification

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/index....mit=500&target=Power+Nullification&namespace=

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Special%3ACategoryIntersection?category_1=Category%3ACharacters&category_2=Category%3APower+Nullification+Users&limit=1100&wpSubmit=Find+matches

 

[Promestein]

Proving my point.

1063 pages in Power Null users. 140 in Negation.

 

[Elizhaa]

Resistance Negation have 40 pages

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/S...Negation+Users&limit=50&wpSubmit=Find+matches

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

At this point, who is gonna change either of these if they go through?

 

[Elizhaa]

@Promestei, in any case, you can count on for help if a revision is needed

 

[Elizhaa]

At this point, who is gonna change either of these if they go through?

I would help, @Iapitus The Impaler

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

That's good. Tho at this point I feel like we need to ask if the change is worth it. But you are the staff, if you feel like its worth it then go ahead

 

[Promestein]

I would do it. I can change the categories fairly quickly with my bot and would rewrite the page.

 

[Elizhaa]

To be honest, I would like to learn how to use a bot

 

[Promestein]

It's just using scripts. Not that hard. But bots are really going to end up in the hands of admins around here. And only if you get Ant's approval.

 

[Elizhaa]

Gotcha and thanks for the info, Promestei!

 

[Promestein]

Anyways, what're people signing off to here? Just fusing the Power Null and Negation pages and leaving Resistance Negation separate? Or?

 

[Elizhaa]

Fusing the Power Null, Negation pages, and Resistance Negation page; resistance negation, anyway, is few

 

[Andytrenom]

I actually have run into an issue like this before. Where something that I would consider power nullification was claimed to be negation because of how the page defines it.

I think the description of negation should just be changed to piercing through or ignoring things like resistance, intangibility etc instead of shutting them down.

 

[Andytrenom]

I am not sure if this is the actual standard followed here or not but when I hear negation, I think of it as only the user's attacks being unaffected by the opponent's abilities rather than the ability of the opponent being deactivated in general.

For example, if I have an arrow that negates Regenerationn and an arrow that power nulls Regenerationn, the former would leave a wound that the opponent can't regenerate from but won't strip him of his ability to regenerate wounds in general. The latter however would prevent him from Regenerationn all wounds, even ones not caused by the arrow.

Once again, that's just how I personally would make a distinction between the two abilities.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Promestein makes sense in the first post, but haven't read the rest of the thread.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I think that Promestein makes sense in the first post, but haven't read the rest of the thread.

Quick recap:

Me, prom and other people think that we should revise Power Nullification and remove the Resistance Negation and Negation.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. We would have to write resistance negation and negation as sub-powers of the power nullification page though.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Okay. We would have to write resistance negation and negation as sub-powers of the power nullification page though.

That's what i meant by "revise". Though we can take care of it in another thread (i think it deserves a thread on it's own).

 

[The_Causality]

Strongly agree with Prom sama

 

[Antoniofer]

Technically, Power Null is a sub-power of Negation, so my suggestion was if two pages needs to be deleted then that would be Power Null and Resistance Null; however, people is more familiarized with Power Null.