Potential Upgrade to Arceus' Power Null (Or a mountain of new resistances)

[Everything12]

Is their any other power Arceus nulls that comes from an attack that effects the player or their deck instead of Arceus?

 

[Xerkser500]

Yeah. After First Law is officially added to Arceus's page, I'm going to start making some TCG blogs for Pokemon so that we can manage a hax upgrade project for Pokemon.

Any TCG ability not on a pokemons page will get added, its just gonna take a while.

 

[Zeifyl]

Is their any other power Arceus nulls that comes from an attack that effects the player or their deck instead of Arceus?

Maybe Spatial (though Giratina may make up for that) and Temporal, but the others purely target Arceus.

 

[Xerkser500]

Btw, for whoevers adding First Law, I highly recceomend adding the picture of Arceus's card so that its mich easier to find incase someone asks in the future.

 

[Everything12]

All Dialga's time moves effect the deck not Arceus so Arceus doesn't null that, where does Palkia's spatial come from? Cause theirs quite a few of Palkia's spatial and possibly BFR moves that Arceus does null.

 

[Zeifyl]

All Dialga's time moves effect the deck not Arceus so Arceus doesn't null that, where does Palkia's spatial come from? Cause theirs quite a few of Palkia's spatial and possibly BFR moves that Arceus does null.

Can't find anything. I'll remove Precog, Spatial, and Temporal.

Powers Arceus passively nulls via First Law are as follows: Mind Manipulation, Sleep, Durability Negation, Memory Manipulation (from Uxie), Confusio (from Azelf), Spatial Manipulation (from Palkia), BFR, Power Nullification, Paralysis (from Giratina), OHK (from Darkrai), Resistance Negation (from Hoopa).

 

[Xerkser500]

>All Dialgas time moves effect the deck

Where is this shown?

And I'm pretty sure Dialgas time moves regardless would still be null'ble by Arceus anyway since Dialgas its creation.

 

[Everything12]

Spatial is probably true I see quite a few of Palkia's attacks that Arceus will null.

 

[Antvasima]

@Elizhaa

Thank you for the help.

 

[Zeifyl]

Spatial is probably true I see quite a few of Palkia's attacks that Arceus will null.

Re-adding Spatial. Though isn't it kind of a leap of faith to say Arceus doesn't null Temporal by proxy?

 

[Xerkser500]

Im checking some of Dialgas cards now and some of them at the least First Law can null. Give me a second to post them.

 

[Everything12]

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Palkia_(Majestic_Dawn_11) 'Zone Shift: Your opponent switches the Defending Pokemon with 1 of his or her Benched Pokemon'

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Palkia_(Call_of_Legends_19) 'Wormhole: Switch Palkia with 1 of your Benched Pokémon. Then, your opponent switches the Defending Pokémon with 1 of his or her Benched Pokémon.'

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Palkia_(Diamond_&_Pearl_11) 'Transback: You may flip a coin. If heads, discard all Energy attached to Palkia and put the Defending Pokémon and all cards attached to it on top of your opponent's deck. Your opponent shuffles his or her deck afterward.'

 

[Zeifyl]

@Elizhaa

May I recommend "passively nullifies Mind Manipulation, Sleep, Confusion, Paralysis, Durability Negation, Memory Manipulation, Spatial Manipulation, BFR, Power Nullification, OHK, and Resistance Negation via First Law" instead?

Looks a lot neater.

 

[Everything12]

Durability negation comes from Uxie's Psypower, where it moves the damage counters? Is that covered by First Law allowing damage, genuine question, cause I'm on the fence about that, though I do think it is more likely that First Law does null it.

 

[Zeifyl]

Durability negation comes from Uxie's Psypower, where it moves the damage counters? Is that covered by First Law allowing damage, genuine question, cause I'm on the fence about that, though I do think it is more likely that First Law does null it.

If the effect says "Damage" it bypasses First Law. If the effect says "Damage Counters", it's stopped by First Law.

And it's the latter that's counted as Dura Neg.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

So basically now Arceus is a worse Khorne

 

[Zeifyl]

So basically now Arceus is a worse Khorne </div>

Nah, the Power Null is not nearly that good.

 

[Elizhaa]

So basically now Arceus is a worse Khorne

If Arceus didn't get Higher-Dimensional Existence; Power Nullification would be so good as it would included the entire Pokemo abilties, OvO!

 

[NeoZex6399]

Plates was a thing before this.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Nah, the Power Null is not nearly that good.

Hence the word worse

 

[Zeifyl]

Plates was a thing before this.

Yeah, but those are thought based.

 

[NeoZex6399]

Yeah, that's true.

(Arceus should get a high number of resistance by changing his types btw)

 

[Elizhaa]

@Elizhaa
May I recommend "passively nullifies Mind Manipulation, Sleep, Confusion, Paralysis, Durability Negation, Memory Manipulation, Spatial Manipulation, BFR, Power Nullification, OHK, and Resistance Negation via First Law" instead?

Looks a lot neater.

Why no Precognition and Time Manipulation?

 

[Zeifyl]

@Elizhaa
May I recommend "passively nullifies Mind Manipulation, Sleep, Confusion, Paralysis, Durability Negation, Memory Manipulation, Spatial Manipulation, BFR, Power Nullification, OHK, and Resistance Negation via First Law" instead?

Looks a lot neater.

Why no Precognition and Time Manipulation?

Arceus didn't null Precog anyway, and a bit of extra searching didn't find any time hax Arceus nulled either. Though it is still being sought for.

 

[Xerkser500]

Here are the Dialga cards with moves that aren't purely deck based mechanics:


-Metal Freeze: The move stops the opponent from playing cards to evolve their defending pokemon. The way I see it, this translates over to stopping the opponent from using techniques that are evolution or transformation based.


-

Shred: The damage of this attack isnt effected by the effects on the active Pokemon. Sounds like this move bypasses resistance to do regular damage


-

Turn Back Time: This move forces the opponents active pokemon to de-volve if it's an evolved mon. Pretty clear cut. This move nulls transformation or evolution based powers.


-

Time Aura: Literally the same thing as Turn Back Time, only it's passive. It's Transformation and Evolution nulling.


-

Deafen: The opponent can't play trainer or stadium cards during their turn. Debatable, but this sounds like preventing weapons from being used since trainer cards are cards that are items (Trainer cards are stuff like escape rope, potions, etc) and Stadium Cards are cards that have a lasting effect on the battlefield.


-

Time Crystal: Both the user's pokemon and the opponents cant use Poke-bodies. Poke-bodies are the same as abilities, they're effects that are used passively so this is an ability that prevents passive skills from being used on both parties.
These should all be moves from the Dialga cards that First Law can null.

 

[Elizhaa]

Well, we already accepted Pokemon Conquest abilities as it is on Arceus's profile: Precognition (Its Pokémon Conquest ability, Omnipotent, allows it to foresee and dodge incoming attacks).

A topic for another discussion still

 

[NeoZex6399]

Technically Arceus is resistant to space-time manipulation.

 

[Xerkser500]

Also, as I already proved, the TCG game effects also include the effects of the main games moves as well.

So even if the Dialga cards dont have TCG moves that are time based, Dialgas Roar of Time would still be a move First Law can null.

 

[Zeifyl]

The only one of those cards that might matter is Turn-Back Time, and even then, only on a technicality.

 

[NeoZex6399]

In PMD, temporal distortions prevented any pokémon from evolving, so abilities like Time Aura makes sense.

 

[Xerkser500]

In PMD, temporal distortions prevented any pokémon from evolving, so abilities like Time Aura makes sense.

This is good supporting evidence.

 

[Zeifyl]

In PMD, temporal distortions prevented any pokémon from evolving, so abilities like Time Aura makes sense.

This is good supporting evidence.

Now, I don't know if it's game mechanics or not, but First Law does not affect abilities. And in cases like this, go small rather than big. Especially when dealing with essentially useless powers such as Time Hax.

 

[Xerkser500]

It being game mechanics or not is debatebale, however Arceus should still be granted evolution/transformation nulling even if First Law specifically doesnt null it since Dialga blatantly has nulled evolution with its time powers and Dialgas abilities apply to Arceus.

 

[NeoZex6399]

I think we should add Arceus' movepool to the profile.

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Arceus_(Pokémon)#By_leveling_up

 

[Xerkser500]

Here are more abilities for Arceus's First Law to null and be added to his page:

Dialga: Not from his card, but Roar of Time. I already proved that TCG effects can include the effects of main game moves, even if the moves arent listed on the card. So this would include Roar of Time, meaning First Law can passively null time hax.


Palkia Cards: Energy Blocking (from Cross Slicer),

Healing (from Spiral Drain),

Energy Absorption (from Spatial Control)


Azelf Cards: Can passively null being trapped or prevented from retreating the area (from Lock Up)


Mespirit Cards: Teleportation (from

Teleportation Burst)


Darkrai Cards: Resistance Bypassing (from Dark Cleave)




Cresselia Cards: Weakness Negation (from Psychic Protection)

 

[Bobsican]

What´s next? Arceus getting Wonder Guard in some way?

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

What´s next? Arceus getting Wonder Guard in some way?

Hopefully

 

[Xerkser500]

Those cards I posted should be the last of what First Law specifically nulls/resists.

While they get evaluted guys, i'll begin work on the TCG blogs. I'll message you guys when the first one is completed (which wont be for some time between the sheer number of cards and college work).

 

[Zeifyl]

Those cards I posted should be the last of what First Law specifically nulls/resists.
While they get evaluted guys, i'll begin work on the TCG blogs. I'll message you guys when the first one is completed (which wont be for some time between the sheer number of cards and college work).

I will add some of them. Others, not so much, for the sole reason of the effect not targeting Arceus. I will also add a Likely Temporal Manipulation.

 

[Zeifyl]

passively nullifies Mind Manipulation, Sleep, Confusion, Paralysis, Durability Negation, Memory Manipulation, prevention of movement, prevention of Energy Projection, Spatial Manipulation, likely Time Manipulation, BFR, Power Nullification, OHK, and Resistance Negation via First Law