Possible Mario Profile Split/Varies Rating

[Nero415]

Not really, around half the examples come from after Galaxy, roughly.

I really shouldn't be saying this given the sandbox addresses it already but to quote the page itself, "Game Mechanics refers to the abilities shown in games (usually video games) that are determined by the rules of the game (examples include hit points, levels, statistics, world map crossing in seconds outside of cinematics, etcetera) and are not necessarily indicative of a character's or entity's actual abilities."

Mario being unable to break a brick when he's not big is a game mechanic, it's just a generic thing that was done for gameplay's sake. But something like the Bowser bosses in SM64 isn't a "rule" of a game, the developers specifically decided that Bowser should be defeated by being thrown into small bombs, modeled those bombs, placed them in the arena (and nowhere else) and programmed a specific interaction where Bowser's health would be depleted by hitting them.

The issue is what hurts Bowser is not the force of the throw but a small explosion.

I've already addressed how surviving something but being hurt by it is still an anti-feat.

Yeah, cause needles can pierce him lol. There's a whole ass mechanic explaining why too.

Bingo. And that is not the case here. You genuinely won't be able to find many more genuine anti-feats for Superman than feats that debunk them, and definitely not as many as I just did.

I'm mainly refer to stuff like the original Super Mario Bros trilogy, Super Mario World (that example is funny because in the same game Mario destroys castles on his own with no issue) and whatnot.

Yes, that is the rule of game. Bowser being defeated by the bombs and getting his health depleted that's the rule of gameplay. Not to mention the strength of a character comparable in strength throwing him does shit as well.

Force does matter. And even then, visually he's barely knocked aback, not due to rule of gameplay, he has to get damaged for us to beat him.

Not when said something barely damages that or are too minor to count at all.

Yeah true, but none of them count given Goku's feats outweighing them.

Given his history he definitely has more "anti-feats". But again, they don't matter. Same case applies, most of the anti-feats are minor stuff in gameplay, countered by higher feats that happen in other games (sometimes within the same game.), played for laughs, or are shit that barely ******* damage the characters at all.

 

[Nero415]

Proof? How many 3-C feats does Mario have? The profiles only use 2.

Even ignoring that, Mario still has feats higher than this anti-feats.

 

[Nero415]

Hell, many of which Ultra guy listed on his blogs on Bowser

 

[Shmooply]

Even ignoring that, Mario still has feats higher than this anti-feats.

And you've yet to show them despite being asked to do so. What other impressive feats has he or the rest of the cast pull off that can nullify all sixty-five of the outliers in the sandbox.
I'll quote Confluctor:

Anyway, since this thread is gonna go for multiple pages, I would recommend everyone to refrain from commenting unless they are bringing forth proper arguments (backed with evidence and whatnot, ofc).

 

[Pikaman]

One game having Galaxy level feats, when it’s a harsh contradiction on the power of the characters from the franchise that has been previously established, is an increase in power needing to be separated by keys at best and a horrific outlier at worst, that’s the way I feel about it

 

[Chariot190]

I̵;̵m̵ ̵a̵c̵t̵u̵a̵l̵l̵y̵ ̵o̵k̵ ̵w̵i̵t̵h̵ ̵v̵a̵r̵i̵e̵s̵,̵ ̵c̵a̵n̵'̵t̵ ̵r̵e̵a̵l̵l̵y̵ ̵d̵e̵n̵y̵ ̵t̵h̵a̵t̵ ̵M̵a̵r̵i̵o̵'̵s̵ ̵s̵t̵a̵t̵s̵ ̵c̵h̵a̵n̵g̵e̵ ̵d̵r̵a̵s̵t̵i̵c̵a̵l̵l̵y̵ ̵d̵e̵p̵e̵n̵d̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵o̵n̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵g̵a̵m̵e̵ ̵a̵n̵d̵ ̵c̵o̵n̵t̵e̵x̵t̵ ̵o̵f̵ ̵i̵t̵,̵ ̵h̵e̵ ̵c̵a̵n̵ ̵l̵e̵g̵i̵t̵ ̵b̵e̵ ̵t̵i̵e̵r̵ ̵9̵ ̵a̵n̵d̵ ̵8̵ ̵i̵n̵ ̵o̵n̵e̵ ̵g̵a̵m̵e̵,̵ ̵b̵u̵t̵ ̵i̵n̵ ̵a̵n̵o̵t̵h̵e̵r̵ ̵c̵o̵n̵s̵i̵s̵t̵e̵n̵t̵l̵y̵ ̵t̵i̵e̵r̵ ̵7̵,̵ ̵a̵n̵d̵ ̵i̵n̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵c̵a̵s̵e̵ ̵o̵f̵ ̵g̵a̵l̵a̵x̵y̵,̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵r̵e̵'̵s̵ ̵l̵e̵g̵i̵t̵ ̵m̵u̵l̵t̵i̵p̵l̵e̵ ̵c̵o̵s̵m̵i̵c̵ ̵f̵e̵a̵t̵s̵.̵ ̵M̵o̵s̵t̵ ̵g̵a̵m̵e̵s̵ ̵d̵o̵n̵'̵t̵ ̵w̵o̵r̵k̵ ̵l̵i̵k̵e̵ ̵t̵h̵i̵s̵ ̵a̵n̵d̵ ̵f̵e̵a̵t̵s̵ ̵c̵a̵n̵ ̵c̵a̵r̵r̵y̵ ̵o̵v̵e̵r̵ ̵b̵e̵t̵w̵e̵e̵n̵,̵ ̵b̵u̵t̵ ̵M̵a̵r̵i̵o̵ ̵c̵l̵e̵a̵r̵l̵y̵ ̵i̵s̵n̵'̵t̵ ̵w̵o̵r̵k̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵o̵n̵ ̵t̵h̵a̵t̵ ̵a̵n̵d̵ ̵h̵e̵ ̵h̵a̵s̵ ̵a̵ ̵"̵p̵o̵w̵e̵r̵"̵ ̵o̵f̵ ̵s̵o̵r̵t̵s̵ ̵f̵o̵r̵ ̵v̵a̵r̵i̵o̵u̵s̵ ̵l̵i̵n̵e̵s̵ ̵o̵f̵ ̵g̵a̵m̵e̵s̵,̵ ̵n̵o̵t̵ ̵a̵s̵ ̵a̵ ̵w̵h̵o̵l̵e̵ ̵t̵h̵r̵o̵u̵g̵h̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵v̵e̵r̵s̵e̵ ̵a̵n̵d̵ ̵e̵a̵c̵h̵ ̵g̵a̵m̵e̵,̵ ̵b̵a̵r̵ ̵a̵ ̵f̵e̵w̵.̵ ̵

 

[Armorchompy]

I'm mainly refer to stuff like the original Super Mario Bros trilogy, Super Mario World (that example is funny because in the same game Mario destroys castles on his own with no issue) and whatnot.

In multiple hits. Which I pointed out.

Yes, that is the rule of game. Bowser being defeated by the bombs and getting his health depleted that's the rule of gameplay.

No? It's not a general gameplay rule, it's literally something the developers scripted for that specific occasion.

Not to mention the strength of a character comparable in strength throwing him does shit as well. Force does matter.

Clearly it doesn't given just tossing him on the floor or off the platform doesn't do anything.

And even then, visually he's barely knocked aback, not due to rule of gameplay, he has to get damaged for us to beat him.

Yes, and the developers specifically chose this is how that damage would happen. Just because it happens in gameplay doesn't make it invalid dude, gameplay mechanics is for super generic stuff, not something that the devs went out of their way to put in the game

Not when said something barely damages that

Good thing I included none of those.

or are too minor to count at all.

Purely opinion-based, not an argument.

Yeah true, but none of them count given Goku's feats outweighing them.

It's not an anti-feat at all it just makes sense in the setting lol. Genuinely the worst example you could have picked.

Given his history he definitely has more "anti-feats". But again, they don't matter.

60+ anti-feats don't matter vs 3-4 feats?

Same case applies, most of the anti-feats are minor stuff in gameplay, countered by higher feats that happen in other games (sometimes within the same game.), played for laughs, or are shit that barely ******* damage the characters at all.

Wrong, addressed in sandbox, addressed in sandbox, wrong.

 

[Nero415]

One game having Galaxy level feats, when it’s a harsh contradiction on the power of the characters from the franchise that has been previously established, is an increase in power needing to be separated by keys at best and a horrific outlier at worst, that’s the way I feel about it

*2 actually

And even then, there are more but you guys dismissed them for some reasons.

 

[Pikaman]

*2 actually

Galaxy Games, sorry, still doesn’t change my point

And even then, there are more but you guys dismissed them for some reasons.

Name them.

 

[AKM sama]

I always felt a direct tier 3 rating was incorrect because I personally consider some of those feats quite dubious (scaling to the full power of power stars and being tier 3 just because a power star can transform into a galaxy by exploding, for example). But since this thread is not about that, I digress.

Keeping in mind that Mario very consistently displays far lower feats (tier 7 to 9) that cannot be dismissed as him holding back or some other excuse, I'd say it's better to consider his best feats in that range (tier 7) rather than rating him as a cosmic level character.

 

[JJSliderman]

Maybe someone will make a CRT scaling everyone to Dreamy Bowser later.

 

[Shadyboi0]

Neutral for now.

 

[Pikaman]

Yeah Tier 7 Mario makes sense if we are not considering doing stuff like splitting Mario by the mini-series. I have no objections to Mario being 3-C from the perspective of an isolated Galaxy collection, but no other game has come close to those levels of power and treating Mario in every iteration across games as 3-C is dumb so if we don’t consider different games have Mario at different power levels, then 3-C is an outlier

 

[Nero415]

In multiple hits. Which I pointed out.

No? It's not a general gameplay rule, it's literally something the developers scripted for that specific occasion.

Clearly it doesn't given just tossing him on the floor or off the platform doesn't do anything.

Yes, and the developers specifically chose this is how that damage would happen. Just because it happens in gameplay doesn't make it invalid dude, gameplay mechanics is for super generic stuff, not something that the devs went out of their way to put in the game

Good thing I included none of those.

Purely opinion-based, not an argument.

It's not an anti-feat at all it just makes sense in the setting lol. Genuinely the worst example you could have picked.

60+ anti-feats don't matter vs 3-4 feats?

Wrong, addressed in sandbox, addressed in sandbox, wrong.

He only needed multiple hits once or twice. Other times, he was simply able to wipe that shit away or ******* toss the damn castle like a soccer ball.

It technically is

Neither do the bombs, but for the sake of gameplay they do.

Yes it does. It doesn't impact the narrative or story. It's gameplay. That shit applies for every single goddamn video game boss.

You technically did but whatever

Okay yeah, but that's just what it is. They're very minor and countered by literally anything else.

60+ anti-feats (many of which are cases of gameplay or minor comedic shit or from early games) vs Way more than that (I'm not talking about the Galaxy level feats, there are literally other feats that while lower, are still higher than all the anti-feats.

Once again my point still stands

 

[Nero415]

Yeah Tier 7 Mario makes sense if we are not considering doing stuff like splitting Mario by the mini-series. I have no objections to Mario being 3-C from the perspective of an isolated Galaxy collection, but no other game has come close to those levels of power and treating Mario in every iteration across games as 3-C is dumb so if we don’t consider different games have Mario at different power levels, then 3-C is an outlier

Well they had more feats around that range but many were dismissed for whatever stupid reason.

 

[Pikaman]

Well they had more feats around that range but many were dismissed for whatever stupid reason.

NAME. THEM. Talking about feats without presenting them and then moaning they aren’t being considered is so weird

 

[Nero415]

Maybe someone will make a CRT scaling everyone to Dreamy Bowser later.

I doubt that'll go through

 

[Chariot190]

I know the sport games have some wild feats, and there's a FEW feats that are really good for like The Shadow Queen (think she has a tier 6 feat and statement) and what not.
But those "wild" feats are within tier 8-7 still, and Shadow Queen iirc had to be defeated with a huge amp Mario spent the whole game doing and she even straight up vaporizes a character casually that previously could nuisance Mario, so mario doesn't scale directly.

 

[thetechmaster36]

Well they had more feats around that range but many were dismissed for whatever stupid reason.

Word of advice: Don't just talk about feats without evidence. If the feats exist, provide evidence. Don't go "oh, well, they exist, and uhhh, they exist more than these low-end feats" without evidence. That's not how it works.

Fwiw, I'm cool with a Varies tier.

 

[Nero415]

NAME. THEM. Talking about feats without presenting them and then moaning they aren’t being considered is so weird

I'm literally ******* looking. Chill out like goddamn.

 

[Armorchompy]

It technically is

If you put technically in your argument you kinda know it's not legit lmao

Neither do the bombs, but for the sake of gameplay they do.

Cool fanfic, unfortunately nothing implies that didn't happen in canon.

Yes it does. It doesn't impact the narrative or story. It's gameplay. That shit applies for every single goddamn video game boss.

Scripted = not game mechanics, end of story dude, if you fail to realize that something happening in gameplay doesn't necessarily mean gameplay mechanics I can't babysit you all day, and crying about how it's something common isn't changing it.

You technically did but whatever

See above.

Okay yeah, but that's just what it is. They're very minor and countered by literally anything else.

You don't get to choose if they're minor or major dude.

60+ anti-feats (many of which are cases of gameplay or minor comedic shit or from early games) vs Way more than that (I'm not talking about the Galaxy level feats, there are literally other feats that while lower, are still higher than all the anti-feats.

Not going to address this, already have. And you still refuse to show these supposed feats.

Well they had more feats around that range but many were dismissed for whatever stupid reason.

I'm glad that everyone here is arguing in good faith it makes my heart sing

 

[Pikaman]

I know the sport games have some wild feats

Really? I remember calcing Rosalina kicking a ball out of orbit from the new Strikers game and getting 9-B lol

 

[Nero415]

Word of advice: Don't just talk about feats without evidence. If the feats exist, provide evidence. Don't go "oh, well, they exist, and uhhh, they exist more than these low-end feats" without evidence. That's not how it works.

Fwiw, I'm cool with a Varies tier.

Didn't Mario already had a varies tier previously.

 

[Chariot190]

Really? I remember calcing Rosalina kicking a ball out of orbit from the new Strikers game and getting 9-B lol

Iirc there's a King Bomb-Omb feat that got like 8-A or low 7, and some of the moves have decent yields like monty mole having a 8-C feat, among others I don't feel like looking for because I'm going off memory and I'm not nearly invested enough to spend time doing that.
Shadow Queen I might tho, TTYD is based, I can take some time to grab those if need be.

 

[Nero415]

If you put technically in your argument you kinda know it's not legit lmao

Cool fanfic, unfortunately nothing implies that didn't happen in canon.

Scripted = not game mechanics, end of story dude, if you fail to realize that something happening in gameplay doesn't necessarily mean gameplay mechanics I can't babysit you all day, and crying about how it's something common isn't changing it.

See above.

You don't get to choose if they're minor or major dude.

Not going to address this, already have. And you still refuse to show these supposed feats.

I'm glad that everyone here is arguing in good faith it makes my heart sing

Okay so?

It's not but sure.

Oh don't talk all ******* high and mighty. Boss fights many times count as gameplay. Every ******* video game has this. Sonic, Crash Bandicoot, Final Fantasy, Mega Man, Kirby etc. etc. Get that through your ******* skull.

Neither do you.

I will bring them up, but don't you have those feats in the archives of many threads? Like also, there are the RPG, Paper Mario etc. games that exist

Don't come up here with that arrogant ass behavior.

It's funny how y'all give shit to other communities like G1 similar shit.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Ok we really need to tone down the hostility here

 

[Nero415]

Using that logic, you might as well downgrade every single video game verse in existence. They have similar problems but they don't get scrutinized for this shit.

 

[Chariot190]

Using that logic, you might as well downgrade every single video game verse in existence. They have similar problems but they don't get scrutinized for this shit.

Tier 2 Zelda
8̵-̵B̵ ̵S̵n̵a̵k̵e̵s̵

 

[Pikaman]

Okay so?

It's not but sure.

Oh don't talk all ******* high and mighty. Boss fights many times count as gameplay. Every ******* video game has this. Sonic, Crash Bandicoot, Final Fantasy, Mega Man, Kirby etc. etc. Get that through your ******* skull.

Neither do you.

I will bring them up, but don't you have those feats in the archives of many threads? Like also, there are the RPG, Paper Mario etc. games that exist

Don't come up here with that arrogant ass behavior.

It's funny how y'all give shit to other communities like G1 similar shit.

Calm down oh my god it’s a forum post that is vying to make a certain number on a certain internet page lower

 

[Andytrenom]

Okay so?

It's not but sure.

Oh don't talk all ******* high and mighty. Boss fights many times count as gameplay. Every ******* video game has this. Sonic, Crash Bandicoot, Final Fantasy, Mega Man, Kirby etc. etc. Get that through your ******* skull.

Neither do you.

I will bring them up, but don't you have those feats in the archives of many threads? Like also, there are the RPG, Paper Mario etc. games that exist

Don't come up here with that arrogant ass behavior.

It's funny how y'all give shit to other communities like G1 similar shit.

Cool it. You can address arguments without attacking the person, even if you think they are being belittling, which I can see tbf

 

[Nero415]

Okay, I'm sorry for getting heated, but seriously, I'm just strongly against using anti-feats to scrutinize characters. Especially when it feels like a massive double-standard as it's only Mario getting scrutinized when numerous other franchises have similar problems.

 

[Pikaman]

If you’re against the concept of anti feat based downgrades in general then idk what to really say

sorry if I’m misinterpreting

 

[Nero415]

Also I don't know how relevant this is to the topic but here's this

Gameplay and Story Segregation - TV Tropes

This occurs whenever there is inconsistency in how things work or behave between the gameplay and storyline sections of a video game, the latter of which generally consists primarily of cutscenes and dialogue. While this is generally forgivable …

tvtropes.org

 

[Nero415]

If you’re against the concept of anti feat based downgrades in general then idk what to really say

sorry if I’m misinterpreting

I am. If they're solely based on anti-feats which are countered by other showings.

Especially when that shit can apply to any other series

 

[Armorchompy]

Boss fights many times count as gameplay. Every ******* video game has this. Sonic, Crash Bandicoot, Final Fantasy, Mega Man, Kirby etc. etc.

Yeah but like so what? Unless something counters that in those games too we assume events carried out more or less like gameplay shows, it only just happens that Mario tends to show anti-feats that way. Maybe less so for the RPGs since they're more stylized but like, yeah, I think it's fair to assume Kirby defeated the Halberd's core by getting it to hit itself with lasers or something like that.

Especially when it feels like a massive double-standard as it's only Mario getting scrutinized when numerous other franchises have similar problems.

I mean I have limited time on this Earth, I can't revise every series ever and even if I could I'd have to start with one. But I would be in support of similar downgrades I don't hate Mario or something.

I am. If they're solely based on anti-feats which are countered by other showings. / I'm just strongly against using anti-feats to scrutinize characters.

I mean, the showings are contradicted by anti-feats too. But yeah, anti-feats are just something we accept in this wiki

Especially when that shit can apply to any other series

I'm sorry but like, can you genuinely think of something with such an anti-feat to feat ratio? And don't say DC/Marvel because I know comics (decently at least), even they're nowhere near that bad.

 

[Nero415]

Yeah but like so what? Unless something counters that in those games too we assume events carried out more or less like gameplay shows, it only just happens that Mario tends to show anti-feats that way. Maybe less so for the RPGs since they're more stylized but like, yeah, I think it's fair to assume Kirby defeated the Halberd's core by getting it to hit itself with lasers or something like that.

I mean I have limited time on this Earth, I can't revise every series ever and even if I could I'd have to start with one. But I would be in support of similar downgrades I don't hate Mario or something.

I mean, the showings are contradicted by anti-feats too. But yeah, anti-feats are just something we accept in this wiki

I'm sorry but like, can you genuinely think of something with such an anti-feat to feat ratio? And don't say DC/Marvel because I know comics (decently at least), even they're nowhere near that bad.

Well guess what? Every platform and other series have similar problems. It's because Mario isn't story driven for the most part as to why this happens. Especially since most of the anti-feats are shit the characters barely even get damaged by in canon. Especially since Bowser has heat resistance from literally bathing in acid or being on surface of stars.

Even then, they shouldn't be scrutinized if the other series feats outweigh the anti-feats

They really aren't. Especially when consistently, characters survive those shit on a daily basis without harm in so many games and supporting media. I'm not surprised y'all accept anti-feats, but at the same time it's surprising given how strict y'all are with pwerscaling for the most part.

I could. Many cartoon series (especially ones involving toon-force), many similar platform games franchises, many franchises in general. And their ratio isn't that bad, neither is Mario's. But hell some like Marvel and DC are just as bad given we got stuff like Hulk getting beat up by Spider-Man, Magneto knocked out by a gun, Thor getting shot or whatever.

 

[Confluctor]

Ah yes, my favourite. Where we bring up verses and leave out context just to fit the argument. Nice.


Anyway, can we drop the other series shit already? All of you. It's not relevant. Discuss the shit related to this verse and that's it.

 

[Armorchompy]

Well guess what? Every platform and other series have similar problems. It's because Mario isn't story driven for the most part as to why this happens.

... yeah I'm not saying those battle-boarding other series shouldn't consider similar stuff.

Especially since most of the anti-feats are shit the characters barely even get damaged by in canon. Especially since Bowser has heat resistance from literally bathing in acid or being on surface of stars.

Ignoring that acid isn't heat but a separate thing, that's one showing, vs several showings here. It doesn't take precedence.

Even then, they shouldn't be scrutinized if the other series feats outweigh the anti-feats

And they don't here, reasonably.

They really aren't. Especially when consistently, characters survive those shit on a daily basis without harm in so many games and supporting media. I'm not surprised y'all accept anti-feats, but at the same time it's surprising given how strict y'all are with pwerscaling for the most part.

It's kinda because we are that we do.

But hell some like Marvel and DC are just as bad given we got stuff like Hulk getting beat up by Spider-Man, Magneto knocked out by a gun, Thor getting shot or whatever.

And for every time that happens you get ten instances of Hulk or Thor pulling off casual tier 8 or 7 shit or even having cosmic feats. Genuinely I think Spider-Man has been even with Hulk only one notable time in 616 history, and Hulk holds back canonically anyway so it would be sus to consider it. There's a general idea of the power level of a character and most of the time writers do a passable job at sticking to it.

It's the opposite for Mario there's way more anti-feats than feats, cartoons are a bit closer but even then, Popeye is 9-B in base which is where all of his anti-feats are, Bugs Bunny was deleted and Spongebob's profile is bad has a varies rating, it's not like you can use our treatment of them to counter how we should treat Mario.

 

[Armorchompy]

anyway i'm going to sleep don't delete the verse while i'm gone

 

[Drhorrible100]

didnt nintendo say something along the lines of every mario game is its own universe and shouldn't be treated as if the games have any specific canon? (exception being the paper mario games and specific sequels like mario galaxy two, of course)
if thats the case then we can't really use the other games as feats, for downgrades or upgrades because it's a different mario
maybe I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure I remember something like that